TLC's New Marketing Tactic?

[Batbrick]

I was wondering, what with Vikings and now Mars Mission, if it must be a new tactic for TLC that a short-lived theme has a two set next year release. The boxes of the new mars mission sets only show an additional two sets, as did the Viking sets, will this become a trend?

If this is true then maybe we will see another couple of Aquaraider sets next year! :'-)

What do you think?

Batbrick Away! >:-)

[Deinonychus]

They did something similar with Alpha Team Mission Deep Sea a few years back. I think, more likely they gauge how well a theme has sold in its initial run and then do one of three things; release a whole new wave, release a couple more supporting sets, or stop producing it outright.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've noticed Aquaraiders becoming shelfwarmers in addition to not moving very well even after first release, so I'd personally be surprised (yet pleased) to see more sets in that theme.

[Batbrick]

They did something similar with Alpha Team Mission Deep Sea a few years back. I think, more likely they gauge how well a theme has sold in its initial run and then do one of three things; release a whole new wave, release a couple more supporting sets, or stop producing it outright.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've noticed Aquaraiders becoming shelfwarmers in addition to not moving very well even after first release, so I'd personally be surprised (yet pleased) to see more sets in that theme.

__________

Ahh, yes, I had forgotten about Alpha Team. So you think that if it is only mildly successful they release two more sets? Sounds like a good theory to me.

Batbrick Away! >:-)

[Norro]

yes.

Ohh, you wanted a more in depth analysis? X-D

God Bless,

Nathan

[Deinonychus]

__________

Ahh, yes, I had forgotten about Alpha Team. So you think that if it is only mildly successful they release two more sets? Sounds like a good theory to me.

Batbrick Away! >:-)

Yeah, I also forgot to mention that with the two new Mars sets it looks the same way.

Now, Batman is an interesting exception. The initial release was in April '06 with four sets from about $10 to $50, then two lager sets that same July in the $70 to $90 neighborhood as well as a single TRU exclusive at around $70 +/-.

I had thought LEGO had abandoned the license until the 2 new sets came out this summer, a year after the last releases, and at relatively high price points. Now there's rumor of four new sets later in '08.

So, all this could have to do with the nature of Batman being a licensed line and LEGO wanting to get the most of their investment instead of giving up outright. It could also be their strategy to simply "maintain" the license until this summer when a related movie will be out that will help push sales of the LEGO sets.

In the end its always about taking just enough risk so that you make a nice chunk of money without losing your tail

[VBBN]

mmmm...Tictacs... I mean Tactics! :-$

Ooookay... Anywho, this seems right but lets analyze something.

Batman: One whole year, then two sets. Did it end? unless the rumored sets are fake, no.

A theme ends when the sets don't sell well. KK ended. It totaly crashed and burned. Now, MM didn't do so well with the aliens, so it was given another chance, as was vikings. If the 2 new MM sets sell well, MM will continue. If they don't, well lets just say Mission to mars will say goodbye to its predesscesor. Vikings did bad the first year, was given another chance as well. But those sets didn't do as well, and therefore ended that theme. Why KK wasn't given another 2 set chance was because they tried something new and went for 3 years.

Hope that explained it !!

[The Brick Rat]

Mars Mission may be getting a better showing in 2008 than we think. There are the 2 confirmed sets:

7647 MX-41 Switch Fighter

7648 MT-21 Mobile Mining Unit

Plus the 2 Impulse sets:

5617 Mini Robot

5618 Alien Jet

Then there are the 3 sets from the 2008 rumored sets thread:

???? MT-61 Crystal Reaper

???? ETX Alien Infiltrator

???? MX-81 Hypersonic Operations Aircraft

If the rumored sets are real, that's 5 sets (plus 2 Impulse sets) - I wish Batman had that good a showing in it's second year.

Ken

[natelite]

I think MM will be short lived. i don't even know why they bothered with the 2 new sets. anything, even the foot pump large set, is better than the 2 new sets. i looked at the transforming craft and the mining craft and go....what the....d'oh! how did they go from something so good as the space police, blacktron, to alpha team then even more backwards with those 2 sets. :-P the trike was okay. so was the armadillo driller but the use of large plane sections for the mid section and a lack of posterior when the little craft at the back took off kinda killed it for me but nothing says reject quite like the small mining craft. :-P even the crew looks weird. they had to recycle an old alpha team head. yuck!

seriously...if they want better space sets they gotta stop using reject parts. i say get rid of MM and AR, and bring on pirates and romans! *y*

[Brickmaster]

Exo force had a sort of odd product release aswell, in 2005, only 2 human robots and 2 enemy mechs were released, then as they did well, they released the 100 dollar base in 2006. And as it stands, they show no sign of weakening up on the exo-line..

[Voodoo Hand]

think it would be nicer to have the 9v trains back again, those radio controlled trains might look okay, but im against the radio controlled part. Which is the main reason why i won't ever buy those! Realistic looking trains would be great, let's say vermilliar trains from each country! More buildings related to trains and could use new tracks! *sweet*

[Joebot]

A theme ends when the sets don't sell well. KK ended. It totaly crashed and burned. Now, MM didn't do so well with the aliens, so it was given another chance, as was vikings. If the 2 new MM sets sell well, MM will continue. If they don't, well lets just say Mission to mars will say goodbye to its predesscesor. Vikings did bad the first year, was given another chance as well. But those sets didn't do as well, and therefore ended that theme. Why KK wasn't given another 2 set chance was because they tried something new and went for 3 years.

I've been wondering about this. It's my understanding that TLC has at least a two-year development cycle, which means that they're currently designing the sets to be released in 2010. If that's the case, how can they possibly make decisions based on a theme's sales? For example, let's say they've got some New Awesome Theme scheduled for 2009. They can't make a decision for 2010 based on the sales of the New Awesome Theme because it hasn't hit the stores yet.

I'm not convinced that Lego cancels a theme based solely on poor sales. Their development cycle is too long to allow for that kind of quick reaction to the market. My theory is that all these sorts of themes (Alpha Team, Aquaraiders, Dino Attack, Vikings) were originally intended to be "disposable themes." They have a big splashy initial released, followed by perhaps a handful of small sets in a second wave ... then nothing, and they're onto the next one.

I think it's a marketing decision, not a sales decision. They probably feel like they need more turnover in their themes in order to stay relevant in a world of increasingly short attention spans. The olden days of only having Space / Castle / Town themes are long over.

[Trionx]

One thing you guys are forgetting is that next year MM is getting a movie, (I think, not sure about that) and Batman is getting a video game, so I would think LEGO would try to get a few more bucks with the lines.

Hear me out on this, I think without these, the 2 lines would have ended already, my guess is that they planned these a year ago, and were forced to continue the lines a bit longer to time them with the movie and video game.

As for the castle line, they might have it for 2008, but my guess is that in 2009 they'll make the "farewell" sets :-P

Edited November 26, 2007 by Darth Bionics

[Lt. Veers]

One thing you guys are forgetting is that next year MM is getting a movie, (I think, not sure about that) and Batman is getting a video game, so I would think LEGO would try to get a few more bucks with the lines.

Hear me out on this, I think without these, the 2 lines would have ended already, my guess is that they planned these a year ago, and were forced to continue the lines a bit longer to time them with the movie and video game.

As for the castle line, they might have it for 2008, but my guess is that in 2009 they'll make the "farewell" sets :-P

Geez, I hope castle dosen't end. It had so many possabilities!

[Trionx]

Geez, I hope castle dosen't end. It had so many possabilities!

As do I, but they don't last forever, but when it does go, LEGO can make a new one :-)

[adik_sa_lego]

i think the Batman license's exception is due to the fact that they're releasing a video game next year, with a storyline independent of the movies.

[Capn Frank]

Maybe TLG would do better if they didn't have beasts vs. Human in AR, jelly aliens in MM, and beasts vs. human in Vikings. |-/

They seem to chose poorly on who the good guys go against.

...

seriously...if they want better space sets they gotta stop using reject parts. i say get rid of MM and AR, and bring on pirates and romans! *y*

Hey i'm liking that idea *y*

*pirate*

P

Edited November 27, 2007 by phred

[ExoBuilder]

Maybe TLG would do better if they didn't have beasts vs. Human in AR, jelly aliens in MM, and beasts vs. human in Vikings. |-/

They seem to chose poorly on who the good guys go against.

Hey i'm liking that idea *y*

*pirate*

P

Hey, I'm not liking that idea *n*

Edited November 27, 2007 by Exo-builder59

[Deinonychus]

I've been wondering about this. It's my understanding that TLC has at least a two-year development cycle, which means that they're currently designing the sets to be released in 2010. If that's the case, how can they possibly make decisions based on a theme's sales? For example, let's say they've got some New Awesome Theme scheduled for 2009. They can't make a decision for 2010 based on the sales of the New Awesome Theme because it hasn't hit the stores yet.

I'm not convinced that Lego cancels a theme based solely on poor sales. Their development cycle is too long to allow for that kind of quick reaction to the market. My theory is that all these sorts of themes (Alpha Team, Aquaraiders, Dino Attack, Vikings) were originally intended to be "disposable themes." They have a big splashy initial released, followed by perhaps a handful of small sets in a second wave ... then nothing, and they're onto the next one.

I think it's a marketing decision, not a sales decision. They probably feel like they need more turnover in their themes in order to stay relevant in a world of increasingly short attention spans. The olden days of only having Space / Castle / Town themes are long over.

I can't really disagree with any points here. However I can't see any company continuing with a product line that has sales in the dumper after its initial release. A development cycle is just that...development. It's actual production that is tied more directly to what we see on the shelves. I'm willing to bet LEGO has scads of unproduced prototype sets for other themes we've never seen, probably right up to test-shot packaging and everything.

I'd also imagine that it is probably a little easier for LEGO to kill an item and not loose too much money in the way of tooling costs because of the inherent properties of LEGOs. A new set might have one or two newly molded pieces...and even those can be rolled into a future design, so its not as if they'd be backed into a corner to release a set just to recoup their tooling costs.

But now I'm getting into the dynamics of marketing versus manufacturing versus product development, and thats a whole other monster

[Joebot]

I can't really disagree with any points here. However I can't see any company continuing with a product line that has sales in the dumper after its initial release. A development cycle is just that...development. It's actual production that is tied more directly to what we see on the shelves. I'm willing to bet LEGO has scads of unproduced prototype sets for other themes we've never seen, probably right up to test-shot packaging and everything.

I'd also imagine that it is probably a little easier for LEGO to kill an item and not loose too much money in the way of tooling costs because of the inherent properties of LEGOs. A new set might have one or two newly molded pieces...and even those can be rolled into a future design, so its not as if they'd be backed into a corner to release a set just to recoup their tooling costs.

But now I'm getting into the dynamics of marketing versus manufacturing versus product development, and thats a whole other monster

Good point. You might very well be right that TLC is able to easily kill a theme's second wave if the initial wave sells poorly. Sure, they're out the design and prototyping costs, but my guess is that those costs are quite a bit less than actual manufacturing and distribution costs.

But what about the other way around -- if a new disposable theme is a surprise huge hit, can TLC quickly slap together a second wave in a few months?

For example, Aquaraiders is pretty clearly a disposable theme. We got one wave of sets, and there's been no indication of any subsequent sets in '08. At this point, this sure looks like another one-and-done theme. I don't know what sales have been like for Aquaraiders, but let's say they've been wildly successful. Can TLC change their minds and quickly design, develop, and produce a second wave of sets to captialize on that success?? I'm guessing not.

This is obviously all just conjecture on my part. I wish we had more insights into how themes are planned and produced. I'd be really curious to know how that all works.

[Lt. Veers]

I mainly think Lego should make less short lived themes. Keep going with what you start, Lego!

[Deinonychus]

But what about the other way around -- if a new disposable theme is a surprise huge hit, can TLC quickly slap together a second wave in a few months?

For example, Aquaraiders is pretty clearly a disposable theme. We got one wave of sets, and there's been no indication of any subsequent sets in '08. At this point, this sure looks like another one-and-done theme. I don't know what sales have been like for Aquaraiders, but let's say they've been wildly successful. Can TLC change their minds and quickly design, develop, and produce a second wave of sets to captialize on that success?? I'm guessing not.

This is obviously all just conjecture on my part. I wish we had more insights into how themes are planned and produced. I'd be really curious to know how that all works.

I think the main roadblock here would be production capacity.

Working up some new theme models, designing and printing the boxes and instructions, and passing everything through testing, QC, and copyright registrations would be pretty easy to do in a couple of months. The problems would come in with the manufacturing and packagings phase where, if a new series of sets had to be inserted, it could seriously throw off production of previously planned products and cause shortages in customer order commitments.

Again, the nature of LEGO makes this less severe then if some other toy company had to do the same thing, but I'm sure its something they try and avoid.

And you're right...all this speculating makes me really curious as to the down-and-dirty details of LEGO's production practices. Someone needs to write us a book laying it all out