Glue, UV, and other heresy for large sculpture

[sixf00t4]

I built a lampost for my house and I want to know how best to protect it. Does anyone recommend a UV protector clear coat? How about a glue for the ~6 foot tall lampost? It's pretty much all red 2x4 bricks. I'm thinking about clear silicon sealant on the interior to try to protect it from the elements a bit. I do plan to wire it up with a working light.

[Russ424]

This sounds interesting. Have any pics

[Blondie-Wan]

This thread requires pictures! :)

[dr_spock]

LEGOLAND uses M.E.K. for glue. I believe acetone will also fuse ABS plastic together.

[xboxtravis7992]

There is also the option of using "Kra-gle"...

[sixf00t4]

Sorry, didn't have notifications on, so I never got any updates.

LEGOLAND uses M.E.K. for glue. I believe acetone will also fuse ABS plastic together.

interesting...

so I'm looking at $20 http://www.essentialhardware.com/sunnyside-84732-methyl-ethyl-ketone-160580.html?utm_campaign=google&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=Cj0KEQjwqsyxBRCIxtminsmwkMABEiQAzL34PY6Wh2_PuWpf11CgxGuPRvqaX79Ev7l5iRDzXJ-LdloaAtYv8P8HAQ

or $10 http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Automotive-248667-32-Ounce-Acetone/dp/B003Y8DI4K/ref=pd_sim_60_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=51CHxX50YDL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR98%2C160_&refRID=0Q95ER30D53HMPA4SX28

from the first link, it seems MEK is slower to dry...maybe that helps with the time to place the bricks and leaving the lid off as you build? very interesting option though, since it's available cheaply at large quantity, where super glue/kragle is not.

how about UV protection?

[Hinckley]

LEGOLAND uses M.E.K. for glue. I believe acetone will also fuse ABS plastic together.

GBL and they get UV protection from local body shops. MEK is not slow to dry, it's slow to melt the pieces together. It evaproates quickly as it is spirit based. I worked for the parks. So that's what Merlin does anyway. I'm pretty sure LEGO uses GBL as well. The Denmark shop does and they started out as a LEGO facility.

GBL is federally regulated and not available to consumers. If you use MEK make sure you are well ventilated. You need to speak to the people at a body shop to convince them it's possible to coat a LEGO structure.

[sixf00t4]

what would be the application technique? just coat it after it's built? put drops on each brick as it is layed?

[dr_spock]

You can coat it with UV protectorant after it is built.

[paul_delahaye]

Thats a nice house you have there. As much as I adore your passion for the brick…….I'm not convinced a bright red lampost out the front is what you house needs…..

But I look forward to seeing how this progresses.

[sixf00t4]

are we sure that MEK and acetone actually bond the bricks? this product seems like it just "cleans" the material - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004670W1U?keywords=abs%20adhesive&qid=1446402562&ref_=sr_1_14&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&sr=8-14

[sixf00t4]

yay? nay?

[Hinckley]

Who said anything about Acetone? Acetone mixed with a glue is a solvent. You use the solvent mixture to cut through the grease. The main ingredient is acetone which is not a glue. MEK is the only glue (besides GBL, an MEK variant) which will glue ABS. It fuses the pieces together. It is a crazy heavy chemical that actually melts the compound together. You don't want any mixtures, nothing mixed with acetone.

Try this: MEK

[sixf00t4]

LEGOLAND uses M.E.K. for glue. I believe acetone will also fuse ABS plastic together.

[Hinckley]

what would be the application technique? just coat it after it's built? put drops on each brick as it is layed?

MEK should be applied between the studs on the "dirty" side of the build, meaning the inside. Anything that leaks over the edge towards the outside, which is viewable, will melt the brick in the shape of the drip and look terrible. UV coating will cover small mistakes but you don't want to damage the outside of the brick. So, apply the MEK between the studs (hopefully you are using 2x brick). Then the UV coating is applied to the outside of the model once the glue has dried, which shouldn't take too long, considering it is spirit based and evaporates quickly.

Make sure you glue in a well vented area and let the model dry in a well vented area. The fumes will get trapped inside the model and pour out into your brain when you move it, otherwise. Perhaps buy a ventilator mask, a dust mask will not help you.

Did Dr. Spock work for LEGOLAND and design models for the parks? NO. I did. Acetone is not a glue.

I found this, a discussion on acetone for gluing ABS, but I personally think it's nuts. At the parks we used GBL or MEK. The guys who were out in the field all the time preferred MEK. The product you linked to is a solvent, designed to clean. If you want to use acetone, feel free but make sure it is the lower percentage in the mix. If you have more acetone than glue, it is a solvent. Hell, give it a shot. I think, as interested as Merlin is in saving money, if acetone was an effective glue, they'd be using it. Most sources I found, by searching on google for five minutes, say that acetone alone is not enough to melt the elements together, nor does it create a tight seal. Why don't you purchase some products and start finding out for yourself? Do some research and let us know how it goes.

[clicky]

Hello, sixf00t4! Your lamp is super impressive, amazing work! 
 

I’m looking to install a small LEGO build outdoors as well. And I am interested in knowing which products you ended up using as a glue and sealant. Also, how it is holding up all these years later. Was there any re-sealing that you did after a few years since the install? And finally, and tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[sixf00t4]

Oh wow!  Blast from the past!  10 years later and i’m both embarrassed at how naive I was  but also so grateful for how wonderfully patient and helpful everyone was here!

lamppost is doing well!  I’ll try to snap some pictures when i am home later today.  I power wash it every 2-3 years and then reapply the UV sealant via spray can.  I’ll see if i can find a pic or link of the product i use.  It does give it a layer of “texture”, so id entertain better options, but it works well enough and is easier to apply than a brush.

 

for assembly, we used cans of MEK/acetone and just like was expressed above. 1-2 drops on the “back side” is totally sufficient.  Bonded within 30 seconds. 
 

lamppost was the trial run for the 200,000 piece we were commissioned to do for the University of Pittsburgh.

 

having trouble uploading pics small enough from my phone…will reply once at home later tonight.

[Murdoch17]

1 hour ago, sixf00t4 said:

Oh wow!  Blast from the past!  10 years later and i’m both embarrassed at how naive I was  but also so grateful for how wonderfully patient and helpful everyone was here!

lamppost is doing well!  I’ll try to snap some pictures when i am home later today.  I power wash it every 2-3 years and then reapply the UV sealant via spray can.  I’ll see if i can find a pic or link of the product i use.  It does give it a layer of “texture”, so id entertain better options, but it works well enough and is easier to apply than a brush.

 

for assembly, we used cans of MEK/acetone and just like was expressed above. 1-2 drops on the “back side” is totally sufficient.  Bonded within 30 seconds. 
 

lamppost was the trial run for the 200,000 piece we were commissioned to do for the University of Pittsburgh.

 

having trouble uploading pics small enough from my phone…will reply once at home later tonight.

EB isn't meant to host photos. You have to upload them elsewhere (like Flickr, for example )and link them into your post @sixf00t4. Also, @clicky, the chemical MEK is extremely hazardous and cancer causing when curing. LEGO uses it for LEGOLAND, but they have directable vents they keep close to the build to keep it away from the workers. Just letting you know!

Edited February 1 by Murdoch17

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, Murdoch17 said:

the chemical MEK is extremely hazardous and cancer causing when curing. LEGO uses it for LEGOLAND, but they have directable vents they keep close to the build to keep it away from the workers.

Methly ethyl ketone or butanone is hazardous, but not because it is causing cancer. Here is what Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone. There is also a link to the safety data sheet (SDS). The last SDS revision in the EU is from December 2025. Even the LD50 numbers are rather high. However, it is >highly< flammable. So what people try to do with "venting" is diluting any MEK vapors to the extent that a) the explosive region is not reached, b) preventing any sparks to fire up the air (does not always need an explosion to cause damage), c) people who are working with it don't irritate their eyes etc., it is also toxic upon inhalation, however, virtually all chemical compounds with such a high vapor pressure as that of MEK are.

Here is an interesting "article" of a US chemicals supplier (Alliance Chemical) talking about how to "glue" LEGO bricks together and why it works: 
https://alliancechemical.com/blogs/articles/beyond-the-basics-using-mek-as-a-lego-glue-for-permanent-structures? There is also a short version of the SDS for MEK attached at the end. 

Best
Thorsten

[Murdoch17]

17 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Methly ethyl ketone or butanone is hazardous, but not because it is causing cancer. Here is what Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone. There is also a link to the safety data sheet (SDS). The last SDS revision in the EU is from December 2025. Even the LD50 numbers are rather high. However, it is >highly< flammable. So what people try to do with "venting" is diluting any MEK vapors to the extent that a) the explosive region is not reached, b) preventing any sparks to fire up the air (does not always need an explosion to cause damage), c) people who are working with it don't irritate their eyes etc., it is also toxic upon inhalation, however, virtually all chemical compounds with such a high vapor pressure as that of MEK are.

Here is an interesting "article" of a US chemicals supplier (Alliance Chemical) talking about how to "glue" LEGO bricks together and why it works: 
https://alliancechemical.com/blogs/articles/beyond-the-basics-using-mek-as-a-lego-glue-for-permanent-structures? There is also a short version of the SDS for MEK attached at the end. 

Best
Thorsten

Thank you for the correction @Toastie, I knew it was really bad for you but not that bad!

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, Murdoch17 said:

Thank you for the correction

You are very welcome! These SDS sheets always imply that the end is near ;)

BTW: Large LD50 numbers mean that the poor mice had to swallow >a lot< before they died. Butanone, as well as acetone, are really sort of safe "household" solvents.  

When it comes to flammability, gasoline, that we put into our cars every so often, is in the same ballpark. With regard to toxicity, gasoline is much worse than MEK and actually is a carcinogenic formulation (mixture). It is always the same: Things we are used to, and we learned to handle, can be as bad as imaginable, but we are fine. Just a three-letter abbreviation as MEK does ring so many alarm bells, because that stuff is mostly "unknown". Folks in a chemical lab are really happy when MEK does the job as solvent, because it is so "friendly". There are so many way worse solvents ... (yes, I am a chemist)

In conclusion: It is really safe and smart using MEK as a means to permanently attach LEGO bricks. Just make sure there is sufficient ventilation to prevent for fires. And don't inhale or drink too much of it.

All the best
Thorsten

[sixf00t4]

alright, back at a PC.  Here's a pic of the dropper we use and the can.  We were able to get a full box of these at walmart.com back in the day.  Some said acetone and some said methylethylketone.  Whatever.