[MOC] [WIP] The Command of the AT-AT

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

Great job ;)

Right leg looks more accurate without that 1x2 tile.

Thanks, I believe so too!

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

Alright fellows, this next update will cover the completion of the new design for the legs…

The leg stands at about a staggeringly measure of 45.72 cm/18 in (that is 25 studs). This makes it clear it is going to be bigger than a smaller scaled minifigure scaled AT-AT walker (since there is no definite height; its been measured to be as short as 15 meters to as high as 39 meters tall).

I haven't made the counterpart of the front left or back right leg, so what you see is just a clone…

I just love how beautiful the 2339 () fits in there so perfectly!

I still have the worm gearbox function in place, which will dramatically support with stability, but unfortunately, because of the structure, I cannot efficiently access the gearbox to make adjustments from the outside.

[atlas]

This is looking outstanding so far

[Kristof]

As for the design - splendid. Way better then the previous design.

From technical point - I'd be very afraid about this shoulder joint. I'm sure you expoerimented with this worm-gearbox in real so you know it allows for quite decent play so in straight down position, the structure (with four legs atached) will rock back and forth. You'll need all these legs to be bent in shoulders so there is the weight pushing the leg in one direction. This probably is what you want to have anyway, but still that play could make it less stable, not even talking about fine tuning the angle since you have no acces to the worm gear shaft.

Second - that short single technic axle is all you have to rest the upper structure on (well, four of them to be correct). Not really worried about plastic - that should carry on fine. But since theres no way how to prevent such axle from pulling out the shoulkder hub (I assume you used axle with stop so it's at least fixed in the leg part), this will be dangerously unstable in side to side wobble. Not even talking about axle flex, which is considerable and will make both of mentioned effects even worse.

All in all, I this this setup is highly unlikely to work out well.

If you insist on optional angle in shoulder joint, I think you may consider using some turntables in this joint, although I don't see much space for that. But you proved to be excellent builder mind so you may come up with something :)

[La Chupacabra]

Better than previous leg but:

- I don't know how your hip will look like but single connection with technics axle will be insufficient

- it's a pity that in upper part of leg you have 3 stud leg going to 2 stud with 8x8 round tile, maybe you should resign from that arch and build that curvature from inverted roof tile 1x2

Edited January 10, 2016 by La Chupacabra

[anothergol]

This makes it clear it is going to be bigger than a smaller scaled minifigure scaled AT-AT walker (since there is no definite height; its been measured to be as short as 15 meters to as high as 39 meters tall).

computing from this pic, it would be around 23m

http://www.fiastarta.com/SideStuff/Luke.jpg

*however*, in Bandai's AT-ST kit there is a Chewie, and it's exactly the same height as the Lego wookie. Yet, it (& thus the AT-ST) looks SO not in scale with Lego, showing that the height isn't a good factor to compare both.

I'd say a normal person looks up to 1.5x a minifig, and the size of the head is probably a better thing to compare. Just like a giant or a midget don't look like people at different scales, because they have more or less the same head.

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

This is looking outstanding so far

Much appreciated!

As for the design - splendid. Way better then the previous design.

From technical point - I'd be very afraid about this shoulder joint. I'm sure you expoerimented with this worm-gearbox in real so you know it allows for quite decent play so in straight down position, the structure (with four legs atached) will rock back and forth. You'll need all these legs to be bent in shoulders so there is the weight pushing the leg in one direction. This probably is what you want to have anyway, but still that play could make it less stable, not even talking about fine tuning the angle since you have no acces to the worm gear shaft.

Second - that short single technic axle is all you have to rest the upper structure on (well, four of them to be correct). Not really worried about plastic - that should carry on fine. But since theres no way how to prevent such axle from pulling out the shoulkder hub (I assume you used axle with stop so it's at least fixed in the leg part), this will be dangerously unstable in side to side wobble. Not even talking about axle flex, which is considerable and will make both of mentioned effects even worse.

All in all, I this this setup is highly unlikely to work out well.

If you insist on optional angle in shoulder joint, I think you may consider using some turntables in this joint, although I don't see much space for that. But you proved to be excellent builder mind so you may come up with something :)

— To reduce the leeway the gears would have, I would use the 1.5L pins, and since I can not access the gearbox from outside, I will have to rely upon a point on the 24 tooth gear to position the legs.

— The axle in there is the four length one with the stop

— Before I thought of using worm gearbox, I thought about using technic turntables, but I don't know if they ratcheted?

Better than previous leg but:

- I don't know how your hip will look like but single connection with technics axle will be insufficient

- it's a pity that in upper part of leg you have 3 stud leg going to 2 stud with 8x8 round tile, maybe you should resign from that arch and build that curvature from inverted roof tile 1x2

It is not too bad; besides the perfect curvature of the brick arches surrounding the round 8 x 8 tile is nice I think the real issues is that bricks are used to from the curvature rather than plates, as a result it is exaggerated, and because the round 8 x 8 tile is not any larger than that of the knee.

computing from this pic, it would be around 23m

http://www.fiastarta...eStuff/Luke.jpg

*however*, in Bandai's AT-ST kit there is a Chewie, and it's exactly the same height as the Lego wookie. Yet, it (& thus the AT-ST) looks SO not in scale with Lego, showing that the height isn't a good factor to compare both.

I'd say a normal person looks up to 1.5x a minifig, and the size of the head is probably a better thing to compare. Just like a giant or a midget don't look like people at different scales, because they have more or less the same head.

What would you say the probable height is after this comparison to minifigures at various points?

Edited January 10, 2016 by LiLmeFromDaFuture

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

I am thinking about a new design for the articulation of the legs at the shoulders. Has anyone had any experience with these Technic turntables and knows if any of them are ratcheted (and maybe how strong it is)?

• Type 1: 2856c01 ()
  

• Type 2: 48452cx1 ()
  

• Type 3: 18939c01 ()
  

[anothergol]

What would you say the probable height is after this comparison to minifigures at various points?

I'd say that compared to the movie pic (where it's also quite probable that the crew didn't care as much as we do about the scale), it looks pretty much in scale, possibly on the small side but certainly not too big.

Edited January 10, 2016 by anothergol

[Kristof]

There is no ratchet in the turntables by default. But you can lock them by coupling with gear that has some hard lock on it's shaft. Or to use wormgear on the outer gear ring, yet to figure out the gearbox could be tricky in this one.

I have only have personal experience with type 2 but I heard type 3 is really rigid, thus would fit your needs. Type 1 has an advantage for non technic constructions and maybe you could figure out some clever way to attach it resulting in very good hold, yet it's probably harder to get in good condition and I'd assume it's also less stiff.

[anothergol]

But do you even need ratchet up there? The only reason I can imagine the legs moving apart, would be the feet sliding on a too smooth surface.

Talking about this, I don't know if you have room in the part that sits on the foot's arch, but if you have a possible sliding problem there, there is a x2 axle rubber connector that might help.

Edited January 10, 2016 by anothergol

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

There is no ratchet in the turntables by default. But you can lock them by coupling with gear that has some hard lock on it's shaft. Or to use wormgear on the outer gear ring, yet to figure out the gearbox could be tricky in this one.

I have only have personal experience with type 2 but I heard type 3 is really rigid, thus would fit your needs. Type 1 has an advantage for non technic constructions and maybe you could figure out some clever way to attach it resulting in very good hold, yet it's probably harder to get in good condition and I'd assume it's also less stiff.

So there is some sort of friction in type 3 that stiffens the revolution of turntable?

I guess I will have to get some to fiddle around with and see if something can be designed that would suit my needs, based on your concerns.

But do you even need ratchet up there? The only reason I can imagine the legs moving apart, would be the feet sliding on a too smooth surface.

Talking about this, I don't know if you have room in the part that sits on the foot's arch, but if you have a possible sliding problem there, there is a x2 axle rubber connector that might help.

I figured if the shoulders are at a fixed point, it would give the feet less of an option to slide away (like I have seen others struggle with when trying to assemble cavegod's walker).

There is not much room at all for the rubber connecter, but the yaw strut, which connects to this part of the leg from the side of the foot by a technic towball pin, would control the movement quite a bit. Plus the leg can lock at a certain point around the arch, where the slope 2 x 2 brick is, because the curvature of the arch is not completely uniform.

[Kristof]

So there is some sort of friction in type 3 that stiffens the revolution of turntable?

No, rotation about turn axis should be smooth (at least as smooth as previous versions). The stiffnes is in wobble and overal play between top and bottom part. It's simply more solid, at least due to reviews I read on technic forums.

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

No, rotation about turn axis should be smooth (at least as smooth as previous versions). The stiffnes is in wobble and overal play between top and bottom part. It's simply more solid, at least due to reviews I read on technic forums.

Okay thanks!

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

I have manage to fit the type 2 Technic turntable… Now I am wondering if anyone have any experience with the white gear 60c01() and know if it is ratcheted (has a locking system), and/or how will it work with the Technic turntable?

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

Or how about if the gear was inside the Technic turntable?:

[Kristof]

Clutch gear won't really help you. it allows the aye to slip-rotate (the feeling is like there is some soft-friction based rarchet inside) after reaching certain torque (not very high one) so it basically means it doesn't lock anything. In your application, even small force applied to the end of the leg would easily create bigger torque than threshold one.

The idea with 24 tooth gear inside the turntable is good though, just use normal gear (not this clutch gear. If you reverse the turntable and fix this gear to the body, you end up with locked connection and 24 options for the leg angle. I think that could work.

[GallardoLU]

I'm with Kris on the 24 tooth inside the turntable, this looks like it can give many options of position while maintaining a fixed angle at the shoulder. the only downside is that any angle change will require taking the leg all the way off temporarily. and given the size and weight I would recommend making a support structure for to hold the walker up while making your changes. (in fact this could be done in a way to make it look like an AT-AT manufacturing facility for a second display setup

[Cjd223]

Somehow managed to never spot this project, just seeing it for the first time now. Looks great thus far and I can't wait to see how it looks when completed!

[anothergol]

Have you built the top of the leg yet btw? The 1x2 brackets are sometimes troubles, as they're molded wrong (while the 2x2 ones are fine)

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

Have you built the top of the leg yet btw? The 1x2 brackets are sometimes troubles, as they're molded wrong (while the 2x2 ones are fine)

A Top part other than the shoulders? What is the error in the mold of the 1 x1 2 brackets?

Or did you meant physically?

Edited January 12, 2016 by LiLmeFromDaFuture

[dmaclego]

No, rotation about turn axis should be smooth (at least as smooth as previous versions). The stiffnes is in wobble and overal play between top and bottom part. It's simply more solid, at least due to reviews I read on technic forums.

All true. I own it and can tell you that Type 3 is much tighter than previous turntables. While it turns very easily, there is virtually no loose space between the halves, which is most important to you, since you don't want the hips (or shoulders) to be wobbly.

But... In my model legs are joined with hips with single Technic axles, because the real issue is not the way you connect the legs to hips - it's all about the legs themselves. I do not experience any problems whatsoever with the tiny, fragile axles supporting 7 kg of bricks. It's the legs that tend to break when you push or pull the model sideways. Legs in your model seem to be sturdier than in mine, so it's not really necessary for you to use turntables for structural reasons - perhaps only to enhance poseability.

[anothergol]

A Top part other than the shoulders? What is the error in the mold of the 1 x1 2 brackets?

Or did you meant physically?

I'm talking about this, I have some MOCs that chain stud inversion a bit too much, and I've easily ended up with gaps created by the intrication

[Kristof]

But... In my model legs are joined with hips with single Technic axles, because the real issue is not the way you connect the legs to hips - it's all about the legs themselves. I do not experience any problems whatsoever with the tiny, fragile axles supporting 7 kg of bricks. It's the legs that tend to break when you push or pull the model sideways. Legs in your model seem to be sturdier than in mine, so it's not really necessary for you to use turntables for structural reasons - perhaps only to enhance poseability.

You have the feet fixed to the base right? At least somehow to prevent them slipping? If that's the case, then one axe is sufiicient since there is really no torque in that joint - the axle only holds the weight so the only foce comes from above.

Though as far as I was concerned, LilMe aims for his version to actually stand on these legs, without directly fixing the feet (at least he never mentioned such option). So, depends on how big friction will the base provide, there could be some decent torque in the shoulder joints, especially if the legs are angeled further apart. And then I really believe that single axle would struglle a lot.

Anyway I wonder how this single axle connection is executed in your case - do youu use just pin hole on leg/body or are there axle cross holes on both parts? If it's the second case, how you you manage to align the axle holes to make for desired leg angle?

[pittpenguin123]

I'm talking about this, I have some MOCs that chain stud inversion a bit too much, and I've easily ended up with gaps created by the intrication

ive never sceen this. but there is always replacement parts