Ragnarök Now 3: Day Two

[MagPiesRUs]

You may now vote. With 20 players, 11 votes are required to lynch. 48 hours remain in the day.

[Hinckley]

It could be if I said contact me. Or maybe if I said post in thread expecting some megablock to out themselves.

But no I just said counterclaim, I don't care who to. But I'll bet you a barrel of mead there isn't a counterclaim that comes out today.

Before Ragnarok fell, my horrible ancestor Helga was a shape-shifter for the Servants of Loki. She could target someone during the day and see what Nocturnal Activity they could participate in and steal it, using it for herself at night. On Day One she found the Einherjar investigator and killed her and pretended to be the investigator for the remainder of the game.

I'm going to guess you are a Corrupted shapeshifter, you targeted your friend Patrekr, found he was the blocker, killed him and the blocked Tarr yourself. The bet of the barrel of mead that you're sure isn't subtle. One way or another you know too much about this. You've been acting ludicrously Scummy and now this...and let's add fishing for the vigilante behind the scenes. This would make a lot more sense as to why, of all people, the Scum would choose to kill Patrekr on Night One.

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight)

**Not steal it, copy it.

[jluck]

I'm sorry I've been out all day, I've had family business that couldn't be helped. Reading through, I do want to comment on some things. I know several people are bothered that I stated I had a town read on Tarben, even suggesting I shouldn't have shared it. But from the evidence I saw, that's what I felt. Everyone has their own opinion on folks, I have town reads on some, scum reads on others, and a whole bunch of neutrals. I say when I think someone is scum. I also say when I think someone might be town.

Speaking of someone I think I'd scum, cranebeinn has been at the top of my list since he started, but today he just decided to put another nail in the coffin so to speak. Given that I'll be extremely busy this weekend ahead, I'm gonna go ahead and get this out there.

vote: Cranebeinn (chromeknight)

I wanted to take fresh look at him today, but that just pushed me more firmly into my opinion.

I just saw I was beaten to the punch as I was posting.

[Chromeknight]

Needlessly complicated.

And the chat with Patreka was part of a three way chat with Kaupmad. So how would I have found out what you think I did without him knowing? Surely Kaupmad would've said that Pat revealed his role (even if Kaupmad didn't say what that role was).

Or say I was this role you talk of. It could target someone and use their power in the same night? If not how would Tarr have been blocked then? Or are you saying he wasn't? Or that Patekr blocked him? If so, why?

Your theory raises more questions than it answers.

[Hinckley]

Needlessly complicated.

And the chat with Patreka was part of a three way chat with Kaupmad. So how would I have found out what you think I did without him knowing? Surely Kaupmad would've said that Pat revealed his role (even if Kaupmad didn't say what that role was).

Or say I was this role you talk of. It could target someone and use their power in the same night? If not how would Tarr have been blocked then? Or are you saying he wasn't? Or that Patekr blocked him? If so, why?

Your theory raises more questions than it answers.

Your ability to read leaves much to be desired.

I just saw I was beaten to the punch as I was posting.

It took you nine minutes to post that?

[TrumpetKing]

Hey Toki!

Why do you think I'm Scum and why do you feel the need to make the case behind the scenes and not here in the thread?

Sneaking around in the shadows is very Scummy. If I'm Scum shouldn't everyone be warned about me?

I hope you're wrong because the tracker who contacted me found someone targeting Lambi and that person claims to be our vig. So I certainly hope I'm not Scum.

Ooops, sorry. More red than I thought.

The more I think about this the more I think it is pig shit. Especially since Tarden is lightly defending you in private or at least steering the lynch away from you. And even moreso because I think you are highly unlikely to buy anybody lunch.

I was planning on addressing this soon, Pudding-Head. But since you feel the need to bring it up, I'm more than willing to talk about it.

To be honest, something does seem off about you this time. What really had me worried was your calling out of my vote.

Toki's response to my calling him out for fluff is to vote with no reason. He misinterprets my post as a push for him to vote and immediately votes despite just saying he thought Brand was just naive. I didn't have to apply much pressure to get out of him what appears to be panic. He's one of these "the most possible lynch" guys. If you're going to vote because the lynch seems "possible" that seems like Scum reasoning. I can't see Town thinking "Well, which lynch is possible?" Town votes for who they think is the Scummiest. Scum want to lynch any Townie or non–Scum and are more likely to be looking at which lynches are possible. "Possible" or not, I think I'll be voting for Toki today. Though Cranebeinn seems to be trying pretty hard to get in that noose.

This is funny, because when I was talking to someone about my worries for you, this was EXACTLY what I said would happen. No matter what I did after you called me out, you could use as leverage against me. If I voted in my next post, I look panicked. If I waited longer to post, I look like I'm doing exactly what you said I would be doing should I be scum. No matter what, it was going to make me look bad, and that's what tipped me off. It felt like you were doing that deliberately, to make me an easy lynch, and it led me to notice that you have been more focused on questioning nearly everyone, without adding too much actual substance yourself. You also seem very oddly obsessed with the "possible lynch". It should be made clear that my dilemma was on the realistic lynch, not a "possible one". I do believe I was explicit when I said I did not think either of the options were very scummy. That being said, I would vote for the option that was likely to give us the best progress as a town, the person who had had the most focus on that day, being Brand. It isn't a very hard concept, and something that seems to only trouble you at this point.

[Tariq j]

Well at least one person thinks I'm town.

They've told me that the blocker blocked Tariq.

The three options seemed to be

He is scum too.

He was just fluffing his suspicions with the benefit of hindsight

OR

Lambi did think he was some convertible role and contacted him, he then passed the info onto a killer of some flavour.

If it was that third case, posting that in thread risked exposing a killer, something I was pinged for yesterday. So I took it private.

Turdy denied option three. That leaves the options Scum or Dumb.

I'll put my hand up and say my history has made me wary of killers, either pro or anti town.

You or whoever told you that I was blocked is lying, I can assure you I have no night action whatsoever, so this person is either scum or very confused. Unless you yourself are making this whole thing up....

[Chromeknight]

You or whoever told you that I was blocked is lying, I can assure you I have no night action whatsoever, so this person is either scum or very confused. Unless you yourself are making this whole thing up....

If you have no night action how do you know whether you were blocked or not? You could have been blocked, why assume a lie?

[Hinckley]

I was planning on addressing this soon, Pudding-Head. But since you feel the need to bring it up, I'm more than willing to talk about it.

To be honest, something does seem off about you this time. What really had me worried was your calling out of my vote.

This is funny, because when I was talking to someone about my worries for you, this was EXACTLY what I said would happen. No matter what I did after you called me out, you could use as leverage against me. If I voted in my next post, I look panicked. If I waited longer to post, I look like I'm doing exactly what you said I would be doing should I be scum. No matter what, it was going to make me look bad, and that's what tipped me off. It felt like you were doing that deliberately, to make me an easy lynch, and it led me to notice that you have been more focused on questioning nearly everyone, without adding too much actual substance yourself. You also seem very oddly obsessed with the "possible lynch". It should be made clear that my dilemma was on the realistic lynch, not a "possible one". I do believe I was explicit when I said I did not think either of the options were very scummy. That being said, I would vote for the option that was likely to give us the best progress as a town, the person who had had the most focus on that day, being Brand. It isn't a very hard concept, and something that seems to only trouble you at this point.

What's "funny" is I didn't call out your vote. I noted that you didn't vote. Everything you said was fluff. Not voting just adds to the fact that your post didn't contribute anything. I wasn't calling out the fact that you didn't vote, I was calling out that altogether your post was fluff. And you waited until now to bring it up?? If it was such a case for you to think I'm Scum... Why didn't you vote for me. Instead you voted for Brand who you didn't find suspicious and actually said you thought he was just naive. You are acting like panicked Scum.

And I'm not the only one concerned with your behavior. At least two other people mentioned you as Scummy at a point where you've only made five posts.

Tarden says that we can't both be Town. I don't know why he thinks that, but if that is the case, then you are definitely Scum.

If you have no night action how do you know whether you were blocked or not? You could have been blocked, why assume a lie?

I think the point is, did this person get a message that their Action was successful? Some hosts would give a successful result regardless if the person has an Action or not. I would, otherwise it also works as a weak tracker.

[Tariq j]

If you have no night action how do you know whether you were blocked or not? You could have been blocked,

I thought you were notified if you were blocked?

why assume a lie?

You came on here saying that someone who you weren't sure you trusted had told you I was blocked, if you yourself can't even trust the person, how is everyone else expected to?

[Tamamono]

I thought you were notified if you were blocked?

What makes you think that?

I think Tarr here was notified that he was blocked and is trying to cover it up...

[Tariq j]

What makes you think that?

I think Tarr here was notified that he was blocked and is trying to cover it up...

I'm a newbie around here, this is my first game in any case, as far as I am aware I was not blocked, and I have nothing to cover up.

[Tamamono]

If you're so new, why would you know that you're notified when blocked?

[Hinckley]

I thought you were notified if you were blocked?

If you don't have a Night Action, you are usually not notified if the blocker targets you.

What makes you think that?

I think Tarr here was notified that he was blocked and is trying to cover it up...

I'm not saying Tarr is Loyal, but you're making something out of nothing.

And the chat with Patreka was part of a three way chat with Kaupmad. So how would I have found out what you think I did without him knowing? Surely Kaupmad would've said that Pat revealed his role (even if Kaupmad didn't say what that role was).

Since you're not going to re-read what I wrote, I'll spell it out. Just because you have a PM with Patrekr doesn't mean he would be able to read your PM with the host. You can't have read what I said very closely if you think I'm suggesting he revealed it to you. If you have such an Action as my ancestor did, you would send the Action in during the day and get to copy it at night. Your personal message with other players would have no bearing on it. That's how a role works. The host communicates it to you. He doesn't join your Heroica PM and give you your Action results.

Or say I was this role you talk of. It could target someone and use their power in the same night? If not how would Tarr have been blocked then? Or are you saying he wasn't? Or that Patekr blocked him? If so, why?

Your theory raises more questions than it answers.

I think I was pretty clear. You target the person during the day. If they have an Action, you can use it at night. There's no guarantee our host would re-use a role. However, he does like to throw in some trickery and Loki is the God of Mischief. Although Loki hasn't appeared yet in our story. But there are many possibilities and your talk of this blocker is weird. One second, you're wary of him, the next second you are betting barrels of mead that he has told the truth. What caused that change?

[Tariq j]

If you're so new, why would you know that you're notified when blocked?

That's the thing, I never knew, I assumed and made a mistake.

[Chromeknight]

What changed? My life is on the line.

Either I have access to the blocker, someone is is the blocker but isn't telling anyone or as a complicated answer I'm this stupid pudding role and instead of just keeping shtum in the day thread about it I blow it up by providing information. Information that, if I was telling the truth, is useful for the town to know.

So far no one has asked me the obvious question either in PM or here. And no one has suggested testing the claim by putting the blocker to the test.

The tracker is known (at least P head says so), so why would he jump to the lynch unless he has something to hide?

[Tariq j]

What changed? My life is on the line.

Either I have access to the blocker, someone is is the blocker but isn't telling anyone or as a complicated answer I'm this stupid pudding role and instead of just keeping shtum in the day thread about it I blow it up by providing information. Information that, if I was telling the truth, is useful for the town to know.

So far no one has asked me the obvious question either in PM or here. And no one has suggested testing the claim by putting the blocker to the test.

The tracker is known (at least P head says so), so why would he jump to the lynch unless he has something to hide?

So then who is this blocker you are referring to? You're views have changed about twice now, you keep talking about your possible contacts with the blocker and possible others, unless you provide some miraculous evidence that proves otherwise then my I'm afraid my vote is on you. Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder (ChromeKnight)

[Dragonfire]

No not much right now but I didn't pretende I did.

But something I noticed you two keep agreing and sharing some same opinions!

Who - Lauga and I? You haven't been reading anything we've said this entire day

Well at least one person thinks I'm town.

They've told me that the blocker blocked Tariq.

I'm not totally sure if I trust them and I know many of you don't trust me. So, go on counterclaim and we'll know who to lunch.

Why would anyone claim to you in that way? And this is also fishing, but for the blocker this time. How do we know you're telling the truth about the blocker contacting you?

I hope you're wrong because the tracker who contacted me found someone targeting Lambi and that person claims to be our vig. So I certainly hope I'm not Scum.

I hope you're not either, if you're in contact with both the vig and the tracker. However, at least the tracker actually had a reason for contacting you - they weren't just being stupid. Just saying, the "vig" could easily be the SK, so be careful.

Before Ragnarok fell, my horrible ancestor Helga was a shape-shifter for the Servants of Loki. She could target someone during the day and see what Nocturnal Activity they could participate in and steal it, using it for herself at night. On Day One she found the Einherjar investigator and killed her and pretended to be the investigator for the remainder of the game.

I'm going to guess you are a Corrupted shapeshifter, you targeted your friend Patrekr, found he was the blocker, killed him and the blocked Tarr yourself. The bet of the barrel of mead that you're sure isn't subtle. One way or another you know too much about this. You've been acting ludicrously Scummy and now this...and let's add fishing for the vigilante behind the scenes. This would make a lot more sense as to why, of all people, the Scum would choose to kill Patrekr on Night One.

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight)

**Not steal it, copy it.

A bit far-fetched, but it could be the case. The question is, do we think our host would re-use that specific role again, when everyone would be able to recall it and be on their guard...?

You or whoever told you that I was blocked is lying, I can assure you I have no night action whatsoever, so this person is either scum or very confused. Unless you yourself are making this whole thing up....

I thought you were notified if you were blocked?

As far as I know, you're only notified if you have a night action and it is blocked. I myself have only once ever had a night action, and I died Night One, so I have no experience with the matter.

So far no one has asked me the obvious question either in PM or here. And no one has suggested testing the claim by putting the blocker to the test.

The tracker is known (at least P head says so), so why would he jump to the lynch unless he has something to hide?

Are you suggesting that we out the blocker publicly and lynch him? That's blatantly scummy, and coupled with my earlier suspicion of you and your incessant fishing, I think I know where my vote is going today.

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight)

[Chromeknight]

So then who is this blocker you are referring to? You're views have changed about twice now, you keep talking about your possible contacts with the blocker and possible others, unless you provide some miraculous evidence that proves otherwise then my I'm afraid my vote is on you.

OR

Are you suggesting that we out the blocker publicly and lynch him? That's blatantly scummy, and coupled with my earlier suspicion of you and your incessant fishing, I think I know where my vote is going today.

So, what are people asking me to do here? Tell who the blocker is or not tell? Or leave you all to figure it out?

Why would anyone claim to you in that way? ...

How do we know you're telling the truth about the blocker...?

(Yes, post edited for emphasis)

I think the point is, did this person get a message that their Action was successful? Some hosts would give a successful result regardless if the person has an Action or not. I would, otherwise it also works as a weak tracker.

The blocker was told that the action was successful.

[Dragonfire]

So, what are people asking me to do here? Tell who the blocker is or not tell? Or leave you all to figure it out?

If you reveal the blocker publicly, then you are giving the information straight to the Scum. Unless you are Scum, in which case, feel free to give us the information.

(Yes, post edited for emphasis)

:wacko:

[Chromeknight]

If you reveal the blocker publicly, then you are giving the information straight to the Scum. Unless you are Scum, in which case, feel free to give us the information.

So how do I get it verified?

[Hinckley]

What changed? My life is on the line.

Either I have access to the blocker, someone is is the blocker but isn't telling anyone or as a complicated answer I'm this stupid pudding role and instead of just keeping shtum in the day thread about it I blow it up by providing information. Information that, if I was telling the truth, is useful for the town to know.

So far no one has asked me the obvious question either in PM or here. And no one has suggested testing the claim by putting the blocker to the test.

The tracker is known (at least P head says so), so why would he jump to the lynch unless he has something to hide?

Another simpler option that hit me as I was waking up is that your friend Patrekr PMed you separately from Kaupmad because he didn't trust him yet or trusted you more and confessed to being the blocker. If you're Scum you would've taken him out over that and that would explain your weird interpretation of what I originally proposed about the shapeshifter role. Your response was to a different accusation so I'm guessing that's actually what happened.

So how do I get it verified?

PM me the name of the blocker and I'll tell the tracker but I have a feeling it's going to be you, you're the Scum blocker (or you're giving me the name of the Scum blocker) the tracker will see him target the person he says he's going to target and then a Scum will have access to the tracker and perhaps a Town block if it forms. I also wonder why you are so quick to trust the tracker I've been talking about since you have no reason to trust me that I'm telling the truth and seem way to willing to reveal this power role that has come to claim to you.

[Dragonfire]

PM me the name of the blocker and I'll tell the tracker but I have a feeling it's going to be you, you're the Scum blocker (or you're giving me the name of the Scum blocker) the tracker will see him target the person he says he's going to target and then a Scum will have access to the tracker and perhaps a Town block if it forms. I also wonder why you are so quick to trust the tracker I've been talking about since you have no reason to trust me that I'm telling the truth and seem way to willing to reveal this power role that has come to claim to you.

Cranebeinn won't risk PMing you a scumbuddy's name (unless you are scum too). He's the top suspect right now and if he's lynched and found to be scum, his "blocker" will be next. So either he's the scum blocker, or whatever his alignment, he's somehow found the Town blocker and is trying to appear helpful. Imagine this: he finds the Town blocker, "sets up" a town block by introducing the blocker to the tracker and vig, and then has the blocker killed overnight. One Town PR gone, and he's gained town-cred too. Not too far-fetched, I think.

[Hinckley]

Cranebeinn won't risk PMing you a scumbuddy's name (unless you are scum too). He's the top suspect right now and if he's lynched and found to be scum, his "blocker" will be next. So either he's the scum blocker, or whatever his alignment, he's somehow found the Town blocker and is trying to appear helpful. Imagine this: he finds the Town blocker, "sets up" a town block by introducing the blocker to the tracker and vig, and then has the blocker killed overnight. One Town PR gone, and he's gained town-cred too. Not too far-fetched, I think.

Or he thinks I'd be dumb enough to give him the identity of the tracker. If that's the case, it would be the second time he's fished for a role. But you make a good point. Would they put "all their Scum in one basket" and risk losing them both? Perhaps he thinks giving us the Town blocker (or again it might be him) will get him off the hook.

His "lynch" does not have the momentum of the Brand–wagon so we may be onto something.

What changed? My life is on the line.

So you went from being wary of this blocker to believing him because you don't want to be lynched? That's not a reason to trust someone.

The tracker is known (at least P head says so), so why would he jump to the lynch unless he has something to hide?

What does this mean? I don't follow.

Just saying, the "vig" could easily be the SK, so be careful.

This would be why I announced it, so if this vig is the SK the real vig would know to contact someone they trust to communicate to us that I am indeed talking to the SK instead.

[Hinckley]

He did it yesterday when Patrekr was still alive, before the day ended.

So, he started a group PM with him, you and the dead Patrekr?? ...

Originally we were discussing Heroica, long before this game started. Then Crane sent us the message about him reading scummy within the Heroica message we had between all of us.

I'm a little concerned about how you worded it originally like the conversation had just started at the end of yesterday.

The tracker is known (at least P head says so), so why would he jump to the lynch unless he has something to hide?

Can you please explain what you meant here?