Ragnarök Now 3: Day Two

[KotZ]

Not the best numbers but that will do for now. We're not in the red yet, although we are heading that way if we continue at the pace we're going. I'm going back to reread and will check in again.

[Hinckley]

Not the best numbers but that will do for now. We're not in the red yet, although we are heading that way if we continue at the pace we're going. I'm going back to reread and will check in again.

There's a dead Scum on Day Two. That's pretty great.

[KotZ]

There's a dead Scum on Day Two. That's pretty great.

True, but two dead town and one dead scum is still not the best. But it's a start.

[Mencot]

I would say also that is pretty good progress. Whoever killed Lambi, great job, because I can't say she did stick out yesterday too much.

Maybe she said something in PM to someone.

[Hinckley]

True, but two dead town and one dead scum is still not the best. But it's a start.

This is pinging me like crazy. What exactly do you expect? Two dead Scum on Day Two? Were there going to be three dead Scum on Day Two? What's your opinion of a good day? In my opinion, it's pretty great. It's not uncommon to start Day Two with only Town deaths.

I would say also that is pretty good progress. Whoever killed Lambi, great job, because I can't say she did stick out yesterday too much.

Maybe she said something in PM to someone.

Lambi made much more sense as a Serial Killer target. That's why I'd like to know how Tarden is trying to claim he knew she would be Scum. Did Tarden say even one word about Lambi yesterday? No. In fact, when I said that Lambi's "You are either a traitor or bored Townie" Tarden reacted to me, not to Lambi. I call megablocks on Tarden's supposed Scumdar.

[Mencot]

Just a opinion and option: Maybe Lambi thought Tarden was scum and Claimed to be also.

Or something else.

[Chromeknight]

Just a opinion and option: Maybe Lambi thought Tarden was scum and Claimed to be also.

Or something else.

Um. Maybe it's me but I can't see any way that makes sense.

Lambi was scum. She knew who the other scum were. Why would she reveal to someone she knew wasn't scum. Even if she thought Tarden was a traitor?

[Hinckley]

"You could be scum - that's likely

You could also be town - that's likely too"

:skeptic:

Vote: Lambi (TheLazyChicken)

This is most likely a scum strategy to seem helpful while not saying anything.

I don't really think Mist is scum. I mean, she could be, but if she is I don't think that what she said is a scumtell, is what I mean. It seems like she was just doing what she usually does, and I hate to metagame, but it's really not that odd.

Damn it, OK. I see it now. This doesn't get you off the hook as you could be throwing a bus vote to throw off voting analysis. Yet you unvote him later, that's how sure you were. And in this same quote you give your odd defense of Mist.

Here are the things Lambi said, in case there are any leads there. I do think it's interesting to note that Lambi and Patrekr were both in the middle of the pack for voting. Did someone see Lambi as possible Scum or as someone likely to not be watched.

Are you going to watch everyone...? I might begin to get creeped out by this.

Huh, never actually noticed that, in that case I'll be watching everyone too.

So are you basically trying to say that he could possibly be a recruited corrupted that is finding a way to enter a town circle? This was confusing... But I'm a girl, I probably don't understand

That's exactly what I was thinking...

You are saying that you didn't accuse him, yet now you're saying you're suspicious of him?

Thinking about it, it could be that Tarben could be the traitor. He could've been messing with you to see if maybe you would say something that could mean you were a scum member.

True, he should've had a reason to say that, I don't really see why he would've said "I'm scum" that easily.

I'm in the middle, I don't really know if you could be a scum traitor trying to find the other scum members which could be likely or if you're just a bored townie.

But does he pong you as scum? I'm pretty sure that's our goal, and just like somebody said, we shouldn't vote for annoying peeps but for scum members instead.

Well if you want a definite answer, then I'm leaning towards you being a town member. I went back through some of the other pages and you made a valid point when you said this;

What you said was true, there isn't any reason to get recruited before the game starts so as far as I know, you seem like a townie to me.

By the way, its sceptic with a 'c'

Tarr, where are you? You haven't posted at all...

You could be a corrupted watching from the sidelines as well, because from looking at your profile, it says you were active today...

Vote: Tarr Egg-Chaser (Tariq J)

I have changed my signature, I had to look for the settings option here on mobile.

I said that he could be a bored townie because of what he said in the DM with Brand, he could've been joking with him and looking for a reaction just to not get bored(I guess?). I said he could've also been the scum traitor because he wasn't showing any emotion when he DMed Brand and he did claim scum which meant he could've been looking for the scum team. Right now I'm pretty sure he could be town because I don't see why he would try to get recruited right before the game starts. Also, don't traitors usually get recruited near the end of the game? I don't know if that's how it's been before.

Same goes for Patrekr, middle of the road. Would Scum want to take him out? If this was vig or SK, did the blocker target Scum? I know you can all figure these questions on your own but I'm just attempting to focus the discussion...and also catch up since I seem to have rushed forward twice now without paying attention to all the info we've been given.

With all the eyes we have watching people, it's nice to know that we can drink mead and sing songs without worrying about anyone trying to stab anyone else in the back at night...though I wouldn't trust those pigs.

Please, you have eyes only for me.

Apparently, there's a new thing called Animalism that's "trending" these days. Whatever that means!

Ouch! I thought I was the victim here, with her ogling me like that.

Well, Mist seems to think so.

Cut that crap. I didn't raise you to be a Sleeping Beauty!

Kid, seriously, don't fool yourself. Go get your papa another drink.

Wait, are you admitting your copy/paste-d that from somewhere or what?

Unless, I am hopelessly bad at remembering (and my apologies, but it takes forever for me to open the annals) I don't think Traitor was a role that was ever used before in Ragnarok. I would find it a bit strange if it were used now. There always is the possibility, but I would lean towards there not being one.

Helvetica, it's true that Brand's been odd since the beginning. His first comment of the day reads like this:

What? I suppose this was during the time when he was PMing you and asking advice regarding Tammo.

Why so convinced Shweiny here is scum or "guilty?"

And if it was just supposed to be a joke, it certainly doesn't seem that way.

Again, other people have pointed them out, but these three just make him so suspicious.

Even if my son is loyal, I would still think Brand is most likely scum.

That "c"

Vote: Brand (Brickelodeon)

May as well place my vote.

At this point, I think he's the most suspicious.

Mist is good too.

Just have to ask at the time you told us about Brand and Tarden, did you think there were good chances that Tarden was scum or a recruit? If you really thought he was a possible recruit, wouldn't it have been better to not post in thread?

Weird thing is that last game he had me rather convinced he was town, but he ended up being scum.

So is this his town game?

Scum, scum, scummy Munud!

This sudden defense of my son sounds so strange, especially since it's clear that you've not been reading the posts regarding it at all.

It could be scum trying to defend another scum or it could be scum trying to associate himself with an under-pressure townie, but whatever it is, it is scummy as Hel.

No kidding!

What and then you just switch the topic to something different and completely unrelated? Why are you bringing this up anyway?

Wow! That shows a lot of commitment.

What are you talking about here anyway? Are you talking about who you think will get lynched or you think is scum?

Either way it's an incredibly lazy comment.

Just in case it wasn't clear, by the second part I meant that it's possible that, if Cranebeinn is town, that Mist could be trying to associate Cranebeinn with himself to put Cranebeinn under more pressure.

Not sure if it came out quite right the first time.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

I don't think Tarden is a traitor. I think I said so before now. He certainly could be scum though and Canute pointed out some good things regarding him.

The initial reason I thought it might be good to keep it private if you thought he was the traitor, was so that the scum wouldn't be able to find Tarden, but I guess it wouldn't really have made a positive difference to keep it private.

Well, Jarl is Scum:

The night kill was incredibly bold, I was the vig last game and tried a night 1 kill and basically screwed it up. To the information at hand:

I don't think many people are surprised with the brand being loyal revelation, that's pretty typical of a day 1 lynch. The killing of Patrekr seems to be a pretty typical scum kill too, he was relatively quiet during the first day.

How do you know which one was the vig and why wouldn't Patrekr be a Serial Kill target? Do the Scum go for quiet people on Day One, anyway? What are you talking about?

I've gotta go back to day 1 to view this exchange. My day was dominated with keeping up with the Brand argument and arguing with Cranebeinn. Certainly any interaction with a confirmed scum should at least be looked at. We've got quite a gift to start out day 2.

Yes, look indeed. Any argument with a confirmed Scum should be looked at. Everyone knows that staple of Mafia analysis. What did you find when you looked at it?

Yeah, lambi's vote confuses me. Why not just hop on the wagon or vote for one of the promising side candidates, such as Mist or Cranebeinn. His vote really made him stand out a bit. However, tarben is correct in noting that scum often pick on the quiet ones in order to appear active and "townie". Maybe he thought it would just be more suspicious to change that late in the day.

With a confirmed scum already, day 1 posts could really be useful. Im heading back...

You've though way too much about how Lambi voted, in my opinion.

Hmm... we have voted... poorly.

By the way, I notice that Tarben the Wise voted for Lambi yesterday, but when he was questioned about it he changed it to Mund the Strange, thoughts?

Thoughts yourself? That's not even an accurate portrayal of what actually happened. I'm very curious to hear what you think that could possibly mean. Please enlighten us.

2. Interesting, thanks for reminding us. I'll have to go re-read the logs and see how that played out.

What did you find?

[Tamamono]

Pudding head - you should read more closely. I unvoted because I thought Munud was a more possible lunch; I never doubted Lambdi - just wanna make sure you got that all right. Doesn't clear me, but it's close.

[Tariq j]

Hmm, we've done alright one corrupted two loyal, Brands behaviour was very odd yesterday so I'm sorry to find he was loyal.

The evidence now is in the voting patterns.

[Hinckley]

Pudding head - you should read more closely. I unvoted because I thought Munud was a more possible lunch; I never doubted Lambdi - just wanna make sure you got that all right. Doesn't clear me, but it's close.

Liar, you never asked Munud to lunch. Seriously, how was Munud more possible? And since when is a "possible" lynch the best way to place a vote. Who else referred to a lynch as "possible" yesterday. Was it Toki?

Hmm, we've done alright one corrupted two loyal, Brands behaviour was very odd yesterday so I'm sorry to find he was loyal.

The evidence now is in the voting patterns.

Oh, is that so? What did you find in the voting patterns?

[Tariq j]

You're twisting my words, I never said I found anything in the voting patterns, I said they're the best place to help us find scum.

[Hinckley]

You're twisting my words, I never said I found anything in the voting patterns, I said they're the best place to help us find scum.

So, are you looking at the voting pattern? Or just fluffing up your post so you look active?

Ping.

[Adam]

Given I voted first, when I voted it wasn't a bandwagon.

And I gave my reasons. He (in his own words) was trying to 'cast suspicion' on me. I found that suspicious. Turns out I was wrong.

Turns out also that townies do randomly defend townies on day one.

The guy had, what, four penalty votes under his belt? I don't think you can pretend that your vote was insignificant, even if it was the first vote placed by another person.

Lambi made much more sense as a Serial Killer target. That's why I'd like to know how Tarden is trying to claim he knew she would be Scum. Did Tarden say even one word about Lambi yesterday? No. In fact, when I said that Lambi's "You are either a traitor or bored Townie" Tarden reacted to me, not to Lambi. I call megablocks on Tarden's supposed Scumdar.

I'm not particularly interested in speculating about the vigilante, especially when general speculation about night kills usually leads to jack squat on the second day. That said, this more or less matches up with what I imagine happened.

Pudding head - you should read more closely. I unvoted because I thought Munud was a more possible lunch; I never doubted Lambdi - just wanna make sure you got that all right. Doesn't clear me, but it's close.

Yesterday, you claimed to suspect Lambdi. Ok. Why would that "come close" to clearing you? It's probably unlikely that you knew she'd be killed, but Lambdi was operating with the same playstyle as a lot of the people currently under the microscope. The Brands, the Mists, and so on. Players who were saying much without saying anything at all, and waffling when confronted with questions. It was easy to predict that she would be a target, so I can imagine a situation where you were bussing her.

Or, were you just referring to Pudding Head's accusation that you unvoted her without good reason?

Hmm, we've done alright one corrupted two loyal, Brands behaviour was very odd yesterday so I'm sorry to find he was loyal.

The evidence now is in the voting patterns.

Two Loyals are dead. One Corrupted is dead. If we find the Corrupted, we will have found the Corrupted.

[Hinckley]

Hmm, we've done alright one corrupted two loyal,

This is the second person to play down the fact that it's only Day Two and we have a Scum corpse. What is this?? Having a dead Scum after one night in the game is stellar.

[Tamamono]

Liar, you never asked Munud to lunch. Seriously, how was Munud more possible? And since when is a "possible" lynch the best way to place a vote. Who else referred to a lynch as "possible" yesterday. Was it Toki?

Munud and I went to this really nice salad place. It was a great time.

Because I think he (and Toki) is scum. Canute (the one with the grey bush) voted for Munud as well, and the tide seemed to be against Munud. I mean, he was a long-shit still, but better to vote for a possible lynch you think is scum than a probable one who probably isn't or an impossible lynch you also think is scum. If that makes any sense.

[Dragonfire]

Nice kill, Vig/SK. It seems I was right about Lambi.

Patrekr's kill would make more sense coming from a SK than the scum (because he was fairly quiet, middle-of-the-road, and unlikely to be protected), but it really could have been either of them.

This is the second person to play down the fact that it's only Day Two and we have a Scum corpse. What is this?? Having a dead Scum after one night in the game is stellar.

Yeah, I agree. It could be that those people are looking back to the last game we played here and comparing this game to that (where the Scum were dropping like flies).

[Pandora]

A dead scum on day two is a much bigger deal than a lot of people are making out and I agree with Pudding that it’s weird some people are down-playing this.

Hmm... we have voted... poorly.

By the way, I notice that Tarben the Wise voted for Lambi yesterday, but when he was questioned about it he changed it to Mund the Strange, thoughts?

I'm not clear what you're saying here, as all you've done is make a statement and ask for other people's opinions. Are you saying you think Tarben was trying to bus Lambi, or are you saying he's a fool for not keeping his vote on someone we now know to be scum, or something else entirely?

The night kill was incredibly bold, I was the vig last game and tried a night 1 kill and basically screwed it up.

By 'The night kill' do you mean Lambi or Patrekr?

Two loyals lost, is a sad day indeed. One corrupted found and removed, a happier thought to be sure. Now to analyze all that happened yesterday concerning Lambi to see what we can learn.

Taken out of the Big Book of Stuff to Say in the Morning.

Not the best numbers but that will do for now.

Like Pudding said - what where you hoping for?

Just a opinion and option: Maybe Lambi thought Tarden was scum and Claimed to be also.

Or something else.

I am really struggling to understand you here. Are you saying you think that Lambi thought Tarben might be a traitor after all and she claimed to him to try to recruit him? Or do you think that Lambi was a traitor and claimed to Tarben in hopes of being recruited by the scum? Surely in either case she wouldn't have wound up dead if Tarben were scum?

Pudding head - you should read more closely. I unvoted because I thought Munud was a more possible lunch; I never doubted Lambdi - just wanna make sure you got that all right. Doesn't clear me, but it's close.

Why does voting and unvoting a scum come close to clearing you? Munud thinks Lambi voted for a fellow scum on day one as part of a long con, couldn't the same be true for you?

Yesterday, you claimed to suspect Lambdi. Ok. Why would that "come close" to clearing you? It's probably unlikely that you knew she'd be killed, but Lambdi was operating with the same playstyle as a lot of the people currently under the microscope. The Brands, the Mists, and so on. Players who were saying much without saying anything at all, and waffling when confronted with questions. It was easy to predict that she would be a target, so I can imagine a situation where you were bussing her.

Along the same lines, by extension do you hold with Munud's view that Lambi was bussing Tarr?

It seems I was right about Lambi.

I was about to say "were you? " And then I went back and checked. Actually, a few people seemed to be suspicious of Lambi, so maybe her death wasn't all that unexpected after all?

[jluck]

The night kill was incredibly bold, I was the vig last game and tried a night 1 kill and basically screwed it up. To the information at hand:

I don't think many people are surprised with the brand being loyal revelation, that's pretty typical of a day 1 lynch. The killing of Patrekr seems to be a pretty typical scum kill too, he was relatively quiet during the first day.

(snip)

(snip)

By 'The night kill' do you mean Lambi or Patrekr?

(Snip)

I need to clarify, when I saw that scum was killed I immediately assumed it was a vig kill. At the time I didn't even think about a SK, but an SK seems to be much more logical. I still contend that patrekr was the scum kill though. It seems unlikely that the scum wouldn't kill on the first night and they clearly didn't target Lambi so that doesn't leave many options. I saw a little bit from day one I wanna bring up, give me a minute to sit down and put it together.

Ok, first imo I think this puts Tarben in a very positive light.

I'm in the middle, I don't really know if you could be a scum traitor trying to find the other scum members which could be likely or if you're just a bored townie.

"You could be scum - that's likely

You could also be town - that's likely too"

:skeptic:

Vote: Lambi (TheLazyChicken)

This is most likely a scum strategy to seem helpful while not saying anything.

You know what? I think I'll go ahead and Vote: Mist (Mencot). I find the whole Brand-Tarben-Pudding debacle so topsy-turvy and complicated that I just can't seem to get my head around it and determine who is scum, if any of those involved (it could be that the Scum are sitting on the sidelines eating popcorn and watching us fight). Mist is the only person who has done something worthy of a vote in my book. I'm open to changing my vote should anything else more suspicious come to the table, or for the purpose of granting us a lynch.

I don't really think Mist is scum. I mean, she could be, but if she is I don't think that what she said is a scumtell, is what I mean. It seems like she was just doing what she usually does, and I hate to metagame, but it's really not that odd.

I know the fact that he voted and then changed has been well documented, but this was just the 4th vote placed yesterday. Also, he blatantly called Lambi scum. It seems to me that if we're a scum teammate, he wouldn't have been so harsh so early when the lynch was yet to be determined. Also, he didn't know Lambi would be killed on night one so he would have had very little to gain with such a strong accusation if he were scum. I know I'm making assumptions with this, and remember this is simply my opinion, but that's the way I currently see things.

[Lady K]

And now you are defending Tarben? Why? And the last paragraph you state that, and I quote here, "It seems to me that if we're a scum teammate...." Kinda odd to include that in the same paragraph when it seems like you are trying to clear Tarben.

Oh and one of your examples is quoting Dar casting a vote for Mist and below that Tarben claiming he doesn't think Mist is scum. None of your examples clear Tarben of anything.

[Hinckley]

I need to clarify, when I saw that scum was killed I immediately assumed it was a vig kill. At the time I didn't even think about a SK, but an SK seems to be much more logical. I still contend that patrekr was the scum kill though. It seems unlikely that the scum wouldn't kill on the first night and they clearly didn't target Lambi so that doesn't leave many options. I saw a little bit from day one I wanna bring up, give me a minute to sit down and

The Scum killer could've been blocked or the kill target protected. You've played enough I feel you should already know that.

And now you're defending Tarben. Going as far as to make a case for him?

The night kill was incredibly bold, I was the vig last game and tried a night 1 kill and basically screwed it up. To the information at hand:

I don't think many people are surprised with the brand being loyal revelation, that's pretty typical of a day 1 lynch. The killing of Patrekr seems to be a pretty typical scum kill too, he was relatively quiet during the first day.

Even if you didn't think of the possibility of a Serial Killer, you seem to know a lot about the Scum team's motivation for killing Patrekr.

I've been contacted by the Town Tracker. If you are a Town Tracker and need to counter this claim, please inform someone you trust to post it here or by PM to me.

[KotZ]

I would have preferred the scum get no kill and blocked in the night and for Brand to have turned up scum, but we know that is not the case. And yes, I am comparing it to the last game where they were being killed left and right. Stupid, I'm sure, but it's the most recent game and in my mind.

Lauga does make an interesting point above me regarding Tarben and Jarl.

[jluck]

And now you are defending Tarben? Why? And the last paragraph you state that, and I quote here, "It seems to me that if we're a scum teammate...." Kinda odd to include that in the same paragraph when it seems like you are trying to clear Tarben.

Oh and one of your examples is quoting Dar casting a vote for Mist and below that Tarben claiming he doesn't think Mist is scum. None of your examples clear Tarben of anything.

The Scum killer could've been blocked or the kill target protected. You've played enough I feel you should already know that.

And now you're defending Tarben. Going as far as to make a case for him?

Even if you didn't think of the possibility of a Serial Killer, you seem to know a lot about the Scum team's motivation for killing Patrekr.

I've been contacted by the Town Tracker. If you are a Town Tracker and need to counter this claim, please inform someone you trust to post it here or by PM to me.

Say what you guys want, my job is simple. Look at the evidence and try to get reads on every player. One day down, 3 results received, i want to start advancing the game. I'm not defending tarben, just giving my views from day one. If we can't attempt to make assumptions based on players actions then why are we even here?? You can look at the same stuff I did and form your own opinion, that's your job. My job is to make the most informed decision based on my interpretation of the given data. I could sit idly by and wait for someone to start a bandwagon, but I'd prefer advance this game beyond a game of follow the leader.

And speaking of follow the leader, are people already claiming to pudding?

[Dragonfire]

I was about to say "were you? " And then I went back and checked. Actually, a few people seemed to be suspicious of Lambi, so maybe her death wasn't

all that unexpected after all?

Yeah, Lambi seemed like quite a logical vig kill after yesterday. Possibly a SK kill, but the amount of attention on her makes it less likely. Patrekr was a more likely SK kill IMO.

I need to clarify, when I saw that scum was killed I immediately assumed it was a vig kill. At the time I didn't even think about a SK, but an SK seems to be much more logical. I still contend that patrekr was the scum kill though. It seems unlikely that the scum wouldn't kill on the first night and they clearly didn't target Lambi so that doesn't leave many options. I saw a little bit from day one I wanna bring up, give me a minute to sit down and put it together.

Why was Patrekr the scum kill? Give some reasons, mate. And why couldn't the scum have been blocked - or their target protected?

I know the fact that he voted and then changed has been well documented, but this was just the 4th vote placed yesterday. Also, he blatantly called Lambi scum. It seems to me that if we're a scum teammate, he wouldn't have been so harsh so early when the lynch was yet to be determined. Also, he didn't know Lambi would be killed on night one so he would have had very little to gain with such a strong accusation if he were scum. I know I'm making assumptions with this, and remember this is simply my opinion, but that's the way I currently see things.

This defense doesn't sit well with me either. Scum are known to attack other scum on Day One. A common scum tactic, and one I myself have used in a mafiascum.net game, is to call out/accuse your partner on Day One, when nobody else suspects them, and then to back off/unvote them when they start gaining suspicion. Notice some similarities between Tarben's play and this tactic?

Oh and one of your examples is quoting Dar casting a vote for Mist and below that Tarben claiming he doesn't think Mist is scum.

I believe Jarl just straight up quoted Tarben's post, which included the part about me and Mist.

I've been contacted by the Town Tracker. If you are a Town Tracker and need to counter this claim, please inform someone you trust to post it here or by PM to me.

People have started claiming to you already, I see.

I would have preferred the scum get no kill and blocked in the night

You seem awfully certain that the scum killed someone last night. How can you be so sure, unless you yourself are Scum or the SK?

[Hinckley]

I would have preferred the scum get no kill and blocked in the night and for Brand to have turned up scum, but we know that is not the case. And yes, I am comparing it to the last game where they were being killed left and right. Stupid, I'm sure, but it's the most recent game and in my mind.

The only case where anyone would know that is if they were Scum. So, thank you for confessing.