Lady K Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks everyone for a great game! Thanks Tamamono for hosting such a great game! Wow, was this fun, both teams played well. Thanks to the whole scum team! You were fantastic team members, everyone worked so well together! Since I was the octan lobbyist (godfather) I turned up as non-octan so there was no need to redirect an investigation on me. As scum we were very lucky several times, with the redirect taking out the vig night one, converting Lego Spy night six, and TinyPies infiltrating the town block. There were many times it could have gone the other way. I think the convert role was perfect because it was tricky to use. We could't night kill the same night, only certain roles could be converted, and timing was everything. Using it night six was perfect because there were only the two of us left and the converter role was out in the open being discussed so the likely hood of town suspecting it would be used after it was revealed was low. I am curious though as to why I was under suspicion the whole game? I really thought I was playing as my standard low key townie self.
def Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 You didn't do anything, but you did it in a way that seemed like you knew it. I really spelled it out already: Bob is (sorry) not a great player. Mencot is (sorry) not a great player. To put it politely. You are a middling, confused player. But that's not how you played this. Legospy really seemed to be over his head. You just seemed to confidently flip flop wherever. If you had a lot less confidence, and were more sheepish, you would have been believable. In future games, you'll have to be more on top of things, because after this, for me at least, if you play a lazy game, that will mean you're scum. No excuses. Man, I was pissed Pies didn't vig kill you! But as I thought I was on the outs of the town block, I couldn't express it (thanks, Bob!) ========= That said, I told Bob, when town wins, it will be in spite of him. Truth was, town lost, and it wasn't thanks to him, but he sure set fire to a pile of tinder. Thanks Bob!
Lady K Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 You didn't do anything, but you did it in a way that seemed like you knew it. I really spelled it out already: Bob is (sorry) not a great player. Mencot is (sorry) not a great player. To put it politely. You are a middling, confused player. But that's not how you played this. Legospy really seemed to be over his head. You just seemed to confidently flip flop wherever. If you had a lot less confidence, and were more sheepish, you would have been believable. In future games, you'll have to be more on top of things, because after this, for me at least, if you play a lazy game, that will mean you're scum. No excuses. Man, I was pissed Pies didn't vig kill you! But as I thought I was on the outs of the town block, I couldn't express it (thanks, Bob!) ========= That said, I told Bob, when town wins, it will be in spite of him. Truth was, town lost, and it wasn't thanks to him, but he sure set fire to a pile of tinder. Thanks Bob! I know what it feels like to be in over my head, that was my second game, when you and I believe it was TrumpetKing? went after me. That is why I have been playing quietly, no confrontations. I felt more confident this game because of the others I have played, not because I was scum. I plan to be more active in future games, so you'll have to find other reasons to think I'm scum in the future.
def Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I didn't think you were confident because you were scum. I thought you'd simply evolved there.
Tamamono Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks, everyone - if you played, thanks for playing! If you didn't, shame on you thanks for watching! def - the game was really a tossup after Scaevola got lynched. You said it yourself - you were suspicious of Pies. If town had not shot itself in the foot (first with Dave giving up and then Bob and you going to blows), town would have schooled scum. Lastly, amazing game Tammo. The House of Cards Mafia was certainly worth the wait! Excellent idea, performance, and execution. Did you just take a political sciences course, though? I've gotta get my credits, man. To Adam: The conversion PM was not a hoax, you were our conversion target until TPRU came forth that you had been forwarding the messages to the Town bloc. The message was made to be controversial if quoted (it was copied and pasted from the scumboard ), but it was mostly a fish for information if you'd be interested, and as a utility to generate controversy and confusion if you spurned it. That was pretty wonky. The entire scum team thought that it was an action where you ask politely if someone wants to join your team. It wasn't until like Day 6 that adventurer asked what her action actually did!!
def Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks, everyone - if you played, thanks for playing! If you didn't, shame on you thanks for watching! def - the game was really a tossup after Scaevola got lynched. You said it yourself - you were suspicious of Pies. If town had not shot itself in the foot (first with Dave giving up and then Bob and you going to blows), town would have schooled scum. Maybe Badboy or Adam would have turned things around, but I was not willing to accept that there was three scum left. I wouldn't have turned it around in time, and I doubt Mencot would have either. It was a fair scum win.
Bob Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 You need to stop blaming me for this loss, def. You and I were at odds this entire game. I offered to be investigated, Vig-killed, etc. I opened communication with you, I attempted to talk with you. When I shared in private that I thought the scum team was Adventurer1, Adam, and TPRU on Day 6, you ignored me. Perhaps if you didn't act so arrogant and overconfident, I wouldn't have pushed against you. It's been like this in every game we've played together for the last few. You really need to learn that the town block can be infiltrated and to allow non-power roles into the town block. This very same thing happened to Hinckley in the very first game there was an officially centralized "town block." My theories weren't as outlandish as one might seem, either. It's why everyone else in this thread is saying I have a point even though you keep blaming me. I have played probably most of the Mafia games on Eurobricks, and I have seen some crazy shit in some of these games. Games with no scum, games with all scum, games with multiple teams, ridiculous roles, over powered roles, etc. We both got played. It's why the conclusion featured you having an over reliance on TPRU and being so confused and trusting. The game is over now, you can stop acting arrogant and high and mighty. It's an abbrasive playing style in a game that's all about having fun. That's why it's called a game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. In this case, you lost. Screaming up and down that I caused the downfall of the town is, quite frankly, unfair. You trusting every town role and not opening up your mind to the possibility of other options didn't help either. As soon as Tammo posts the night action results and opens up the deadboard (unless he has already, I'm just a noob who can't read the thread), go back and read all of my posts from Day Six and see if my theories are really that outlandish.
def Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I distinctly didn't blame you, Bobby. I blamed a disasterous night one. You made things worse, but it's not your fault. Quote where I said it was your fault, and I'll humbly apologize. Much like your final day in the game, you're not getting much right! It's quaint that you think I lost the game when I was working with four townies who got duped (Goliath, MT, Adam, and Badboy). I suppose it was my fault town lost, as you say, but I would rather give the credit to the scum for working with what they were given.
Bob Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 You didn't do anything, but you did it in a way that seemed like you knew it. I really spelled it out already: Bob is (sorry) not a great player. Mencot is (sorry) not a great player. To put it politely. You are a middling, confused player. But that's not how you played this. Legospy really seemed to be over his head. You just seemed to confidently flip flop wherever. If you had a lot less confidence, and were more sheepish, you would have been believable. In future games, you'll have to be more on top of things, because after this, for me at least, if you play a lazy game, that will mean you're scum. No excuses. Man, I was pissed Pies didn't vig kill you! But as I thought I was on the outs of the town block, I couldn't express it (thanks, Bob!) ========= That said, I told Bob, when town wins, it will be in spite of him. Truth was, town lost, and it wasn't thanks to him, but he sure set fire to a pile of tinder. Thanks Bob! The multiple "Thanks Bob!"'s really don't help your case that you don't blame me. It's quaint that you think I lost the game when I was working with four townies who got duped (Goliath, MT, Adam, and Badboy). I suppose it was my fault town lost, as you say, but I would rather give the credit to the scum for working with what they were given. I believe I congratulated the scum team in my first post. I'm not shifting the blame onto you that we lost. You and I are both partially at fault, but neither one of us caused the loss.
fhomess Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I will withhold full judgement until I see the full roles and night actions, but I'm not yet sure how the town could've figured out that there was a redirector. Def, for your reference, I remember a redirection role playing a key part in Curse of Imhotep, which was a long time ago. Anyway, if the watcher was watching Kovacs, and TPRU redirected Kovacs to himself, how come the watcher didn't see TPRU and Kovacs both target himself? This implies that the watcher also would not have seen other types of redirects. Bob, as much as you were right about, the way Def went after Scaveola before there was any reason to, should have given you more pause. I was pretty well convinced you were both town and scum was laughing all the way to the bank. I think there's plenty of blame to go around for the end game, but I also think the situation was unwinnable for town at that point. While the town could have won by the numbers, no rational course of action would have resulted in a town win in short order. Also, someone called someone else a newbie to Mafia games, I think it was Def calling out Mencot, but I'm not sure. Mencot agreed, but you're by no means a noob here. If you've played more than 4 or 5 games, you're plenty experienced. There was a lot of vitriol in this game, and I find it often difficult to determine what's "a part of the play" and what's just being mean. Other than that, it was quite a fun game to watch.
def Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 The multiple "Thanks Bob!"'s really don't help your case that you don't blame me. You helped scum lots. Take credit where it's due. Do you think the living protector and investigator took note of your proclamation that they were dead? You were so far off, it made the few correct points you had look bad. You were the stopped clock that was right twice a day. I'm not picking on you, you were over the top and wrong. There was little to do but just ignore everything you wrote.
jimmynick Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I am curious though as to why I was under suspicion the whole game? I really thought I was playing as my standard low key townie self. As an observer, I had no clue what went on behind the scenes, but you were pretty sleazy at the start of the game and then you fished for information on Goliath's role. That made me, at least, confident you were scum.
Lady K Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 As an observer, I had no clue what went on behind the scenes, but you were pretty sleazy at the start of the game and then you fished for information on Goliath's role. That made me, at least, confident you were scum. I really do appreciate the feed back. I guess Day 1 and beginning of Day 2 I still get way too much into role playing my character, she had a lot of confidence, was a go getter, and hey a politician. I love role playing so I guess I need to tone it back. With the fishing for info from Goliath, I guess there to I got to into my character. Good lessons learned.
jluck Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I really do appreciate the feed back. I guess Day 1 and beginning of Day 2 I still get way too much into role playing my character, she had a lot of confidence, was a go getter, and hey a politician. I love role playing so I guess I need to tone it back. With the fishing for info from Goliath, I guess there to I got to into my character. Good lessons learned. I died day 1, and in one of my first dead board posts I called you and scaevola(?) scum. You were playing too cautious, like you thought someone was watching your every move. Remember, early on your just as town as anyone else. The only thing that can hurt you is trying too hard. Let the game come to you and don't feel like you need to follow every whim of the game. Most suspicions and accusations disappear in short order.
Lady K Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I died day 1, and in one of my first dead board posts I called you and scaevola(?) scum. You were playing too cautious, like you thought someone was watching your every move. Remember, early on your just as town as anyone else. The only thing that can hurt you is trying too hard. Let the game come to you and don't feel like you need to follow every whim of the game. Most suspicions and accusations disappear in short order. Thank you, I appreciate that. Good advice for next time.
mostlytechnic Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I will withhold full judgement until I see the full roles and night actions, but I'm not yet sure how the town could've figured out that there was a redirector. Def, for your reference, I remember a redirection role playing a key part in Curse of Imhotep, which was a long time ago. Anyway, if the watcher was watching Kovacs, and TPRU redirected Kovacs to himself, how come the watcher didn't see TPRU and Kovacs both target himself? This implies that the watcher also would not have seen other types of redirects. I was the watcher, and my result was simply that TPRU visited Kovacs in the night. So yea, I have no idea how the town could ever have detected a redirect. You helped scum lots. Take credit where it's due. Do you think the living protector and investigator took note of your proclamation that they were dead? You were so far off, it made the few correct points you had look bad. You were the stopped clock that was right twice a day. I'm not picking on you, you were over the top and wrong. There was little to do but just ignore everything you wrote. keep in mind that bob was not in the block and did not know the behind the scenes stuff. So from his view, he saw one scum get caught in a lie in public (could be you bussing them to townify yourself) and then he had no way to know that you had pushed for scaev to be investigated. If the investigator had done that on his own and then brought that result to the block, you'd have HAD to out scav the way you did whether you wanted to or not. So since bob didn't know you wanted scaev investigated, it made the 2 scum thing completely legit. One a bus and one a legit town catch that you'd have had to go along with. And then IF that was true and you were scum, the rest would make sense. Since you had more information than bob and were blinded by that so that you couldn't see the logic in his statements. And he didn't know that you thought TPRU was a very cautious vig who you were in contact with, so since bob was seeing just 1 kill a night, the MOST LIKELY explanation for that is the vig is gone. Which, well, he was right about! I think that whole day was speedy and bob having VERY different views of the same thing (because they were working from different sets of facts!) and then their history was gas on the fire.
Brickelodeon Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 This was an awesome game for me... to watch... I once apologize for my crappy play. I was on vacation, it was un-avoidable. But being dead so quickly was good for me. I learned a lot of new stuff, and it was nice to hear the logic of people I knew I could trust. Thanks for Hosting Tammo, it was a lot of fun. And phooey on you Octan scumbags :D! We should also give both Speedy and TPRU a round of applause. Even though Speedy may have done some foolish things later in the game, he played very epicly. We might not have even gotten the two scum we did if it weren't for him. And TPRU, you played both the game and the town block brilliantly.
Adam Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Fantastic game, Tammo! I always have an unreasonable amount of fun playing your games, even though I never win them. I have to commend TPRU, he played a fantastic game, and I would definitely call him the MVP of the scum team. There was a ridiculous amount of luck involved, as others have pointed out, and that's a little frustrating, but it takes real skill and risk to put yourself in the town block like that and keep up the ruse over the course of several days. Even with all the luck involved, I don't think the scum team could've won if it was anyone else in your position. Bravo, TPRU! To Adam: The conversion PM was not a hoax, you were our conversion target until TPRU came forth that you had been forwarding the messages to the Town bloc. The message was made to be controversial if quoted (it was copied and pasted from the scumboard ), but it was mostly a fish for information if you'd be interested, and as a utility to generate controversy and confusion if you spurned it. To be honest, I was very close to not sharing that information with the block - I was pretty sure that I was impervious to conversion, but part of me wondered whether or not I'd be shooting myself in the foot in the event that I actually got converted. Whatever the case, sending me that message was a smart move - it lead to a lot of the confusion and debacles of the last part of the game, even if it was true. Even though the town lost, I feel like a learned a lot from this game, and I think I was able to grow as a player. I've played a number of games here over the past couple years, and I have historically always been a vanilla townie, so it was great to play a role. I thought I was doing reasonably well as a protector - I thought I had protected Speedy and TPRU from being impeached - but we all know how that turned out. I could never have predicted that! Regardless, I loved working with the (mostly) town block. The scum team may have been a tad large, and I'm not a fan of the jester role, but I'll leave discussion of these things to those of you with experience hosting games. As someone else noted, this game did have a lot of nasty comments being thrown around. I find this very troubling - mafia games can get heated, but I always try to keep a general amount of respect for my fellow players. I had a fun time, but I'll probably end up remembering this game more for the poor attitudes and troubling personal comments than anything else.
mostlytechnic Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Question - if mencot was a jester, why was he still around? I mean, it'd be a boring sucky way to handle the role, but why not (since the goal is to win), just do something blatantly scummy day 1 or even flat out roleclaim the jester role and ask to be lynched? Was there any restrictions on the role to prevent that? I mean, he managed to get lynched but it took 7 days and certainly no one was thinking he was a jester.
Tamamono Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I will withhold full judgement until I see the full roles and night actions, but I'm not yet sure how the town could've figured out that there was a redirector. Def, for your reference, I remember a redirection role playing a key part in Curse of Imhotep, which was a long time ago. Anyway, if the watcher was watching Kovacs, and TPRU redirected Kovacs to himself, how come the watcher didn't see TPRU and Kovacs both target himself? This implies that the watcher also would not have seen other types of redirects. And I'll have those up tonight. There was no redirector in IMHOTEP, although I would have loved to have one. The way TPRU's role worked was this: he chooses a target to "redirect", blocking them and taking the action, which he then uses on someone else (or whoever). Remember how Kovacs handed him the camera? That was his vig action that TPRU took. When mostlytechnic watched Kovacs, he only saw TPRU targeting him, and because his action was to see WHO targeted his watch, and not how many times, he didn't see TPRU "redirecting" him AND killing him in the same night. If mostly had tracked TPRU on a different night, he would have seen him targeting two players, which would have given away his role immediately. Maybe redirector's a poor name for the role. It's the closest mafiascum variant of what I used here. Edited January 22, 2015 by Tamamono
Brickelodeon Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Wait a second. Did Lego Spy get converted to scum or did he start out as scum?
fhomess Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 There was no redirector in IMHOTEP, although I would have loved to have one. I was thinking of Hinck's bwankie. After rereading the conclusion, it redirected actions but Hinck wasn't told how or have as much control over it.
Lego Spy Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Yay! We won! Wait a second. Did Lego Spy get converted to scum or did he start out as scum? I was converted night six.
mostlytechnic Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks for that explanation of the redirect, Tam! In retrospect we REALLY should have watched TPRU and seen what happened, but at the time we assumed that he was the killer since he redirected onto his target, so we figured there wasn't anything to learn from watching him since we'd just have seen whoever he killed. Guess it would have been a good use of the watch to watch him once we were missing night kills to verify if he was doing anything, but by then he was accepted into the block and trusted.
Mencot Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Question - if mencot was a jester, why was he still around? I mean, it'd be a boring sucky way to handle the role, but why not (since the goal is to win), just do something blatantly scummy day 1 or even flat out roleclaim the jester role and ask to be lynched? Was there any restrictions on the role to prevent that? I mean, he managed to get lynched but it took 7 days and certainly no one was thinking he was a jester. Here is my role PM: Congratulations, you've been elected to Party Lines Mafia! In this game of wits and strategy you will be playing... Molly Callaghan - Representative from Brickshire: played by Mencot Bio: Freshman representative from the grand old land of Brickshire, Molly Callaghan is ready and willing to make changes in this government. She won her seat in an upset of Francis Holmes, the representative of thirty years; the people of Brickshire sent a message that they were ready for change, and so she needs to deliver now. Although, she first has to change her terrible drinking habit. Role: You are the Independent Publicity Hound. You're done with the whole political scene, but want to go out in a blaze of glory - you want to be impeached! Action: Once per night you have the ability to visit one player. Your visit does nothing, but will show up to certain informative roles like you've actually done something. Win condition: You win if you are impeached, but only if you follow these rules as well: You may not: -tell players you want to be impeached -request to be impeached -claim to be scum or an independent Additionally, if you are taken out during the night, survive to the end, or if you are impeached on Day one - YOU LOSE Don't hesitate to reply to this PM with a question if you need clarification of anything! Good luck; have fun! Put it short I had to be impeached/lynched or I lose. That is why I (or in my own mind of playing) couldn´t play too hard and help to find scum or then again play too scummy, if some other player already started to get votes that day, so I wouldn´t be risked to get night killed.
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