Better steering

[88high]

Well, I know most of us use rack-and-pinion steering on our trialtrucks. I have also used a mini LA before. I have also tried push link with no success..

I would like to hear your opinion about which steering is the best method for trucktrial?

[DLuders]

If you can wait 1-1/2 months, the new Lego Power Functions Servo Motor (that will come with the 9398 4x4 Crawler set) give greater control than the crude x928cx1 "Hockey Spring" return-to-center steering method!

[timslegos]

Rack and pinion usually works for me.

tim

[mahjqa]

Rack and pinion usually offfers the best control.

[SNIPE]

You can use a worm gear as a gear rack (the pinion gear is the driver) if you make the worm gear the driver you could get a finly controlable steering system.

A worm hear adn normal gear rack are also compatibile with each other.

There is a lego toothed bar which has many super fine teeth, a winch drum can mesh this, preferably the one with the axle hole in the middle., that could also work but the gear rack is like 16 or 18L).

for super fast responce and short space usage, and good turning circle you can attack the steering wheel directly onto the chassis of the steering unit, no gears requires, then put a universal join on so that the steering wheel is not so flat, the steering whell joins to this universal joint, this is not so good for larger models as it will have too much grip and weight which puts strain on the axle and universal joint hoever if you put a plate on the axle with holes either side you can attack the steering arms to these holes which gives better mechanical adtantage and reduces strain.

Edited June 18, 2012 by SNIPE

[nicjasno]

It's not just rack and pinion. The problem with trial trucks is the whole geometry of the steering which is totally wrong. I suggest watching my video where i address this issue:

[DLuders]

@ nicjasno: Thanks for sharing the Building Instructions for the Lego Unimog U400 Steering mod that came along with your

above.

Renders by Blakbird (from his Brickshelf gallery):

Edited June 18, 2012 by DLuders

[nicjasno]

You're welcome. The unimog exemplifies all the things trialtruck builders do wrong. I just had to bring some clarity into it. Once you have the right geometry, very little force is required to steer the vehicle and the steering will be much more precise. Both features that you'd really want in a trial truck, yet everybody is constantly doing it wrong.

And lego is partly to blame for that, because they don't make models with good steering geometries.

[Meatman]

Wow the master nicjasno posting at eurobricks! Thank you so much for the video. I am most definitely going to change up the steering on my 'mog like this. Looks like it works much better.

[88high]

Yes indeed, for rack & pinion, the unimog is all wrong. You need to make it slow & precise for a trialtruck.

[Moz]

And lego is partly to blame for that, because they don't make models with good steering geometries.

I find it hard to build good geometries because TLG generally don't make the parts. Building a steered, driven wheel with the pivot anywhere near the contact patch is beyond me. And controlling a virtual pivot point wheel (non-driven, obviously) is very difficult. That's something I'd really like to see one of the experts take on :)

[nicjasno]

It's not that difficult. Just draw lines from the virtual pivot you'd like, and you'll see where the possible steering links can be. It's pure geometry, not magic. Look at my multilink video and how i explain where the pivot is and why it is there.

[T_Tank]

Interestingly enough I tried out the LPE kingpin inclination axle setups at the portals on a old tatra i have sitting around >.> it actually gives it some cleaner steering i think an wasn't half the nightmare you would think to impliment. An also to get the turning axis closer in i used triangles over the unimog portals (this took me about 3hrs to figure out)

An yes my tatra is a modified nico71 tatra with a sariel 2speed gear box (still need to figure the shift motor) an now home to some LPE kingpin inclination inspired front steering systems

-currently have it with some toe in to keep the tatra from pushing its suspension down in forward gear

T815 with LPE kingpin geo1

T815 with LPE kingpin geo2

T815 with LPE kingpin geo3

an as you can see from above the cab looking straight down it is turning alot closer inside

T815 with Kingpin Geo cab down view

T815 with kingpin geo cab down view alt

[nicjasno]

Awd and fwd vehicles in general should have some toe in, because the driving force pushes the wheels a bit outward and gets you a neutral toe when in motion.

Very well done btw.

Edited June 19, 2012 by nicjasno

[Moz]

It's pure geometry, not magic. Look at my multilink video and how i explain where the pivot is and why it is there.

Thanks for that. It's blindingly obvious now I see it, I was focussed on controlling one of the pivot arms rather than just using a traditional steering linkage. Now all I have to do is work out how to get it into a smaller model. It looks as though most of my problems have come from working at the 8109 scale where I want 1/2 and 1/4 stud offsets.

[T_Tank]

Awd and fwd vehicles in general should have some toe in, because the driving force pushes the wheels a bit outward and gets you a neutral toe when in motion.

Very well done btw.

Thanks its been a fun lil test bench machine always tinkering an trying new things.

[efferman]

It's not just rack and pinion. The problem with trial trucks is the whole geometry of the steering which is totally wrong. I suggest watching my video where i address this issue:

respect, a very clever and compact design.

my version of getting the pivotpoint under the tire needs much more space.

[nicjasno]

I admired it on brickshelf already. Also very nice. I had to work within the confinements of the lego unimog, especially regarding width, so i had to make it more compact. But your version is also excellent for trial trucks.

Systems like these are what makes building with lego fun for me.

[efferman]

yes, working in the borders of lego technic is fun for me too.

something what is not plausible for me, why they produce a nearly useless portal hub and forget the angled pivot point? why they dont simply produce a perpendicualar connector like these with a towball socket instead a axlehole? then my solution should be possible in the rubbish dimensions of 8110 too.

Edited June 20, 2012 by efferman

[Alasdair Ryan]

why they dont simply produce a perpendicualar connector like these with a towball socket instead a axlehole? then my solution should be possible in the rubbish dimensions of 8110 too.

Could you not use a axle pin ball-joint?

[nicjasno]

I think what he ment was a ball joint socket, like the one you can find on the steering links.

[efferman]

correct

[Alasdair Ryan]

What about this piece then?

There is also this piece as well.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Alasdair Ryan

[nicjasno]

Useless.

[efferman]

what i want (search for) is this

i think this would be a usefull part