The Difference Between a Custom 3rd-Party Product and a "Knock-Off

[RoyalBrickCustoms]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering what you all thought when it comes to the difference between a 3rd-party custom accessory (designed to be compatible with LEGO), versus a "knock-off" product like MegaBloks or Kreo?

For example:

A few months ago I received some messages on the BrickLink Forums (by other members) stating that my products are knock-offs of LEGO products and are not allowed on the site, Several users also said that they would report me because my products contained variations of official LEGO castle sigil (emblems). However, after discussing the matter with several knowledgable and long-standing members of the LEGO community, they agreed that I should have no problems with selling my products. During the whole “fiasco” I was virtually forced by those members of BrickLink to remove my current production line, or risk being reported.

So, what is the difference between a custom 3rd-party product that contains a printed LEGO sigil, or a "knock-off" of an official LEGO item.

Thanks,

Brandon

Edited September 20, 2015 by RoyalBrickCustoms

[mediumsnowman]

I consider a "knock-off" to be a company stealing Lego designs and selling them as their own, like Decool.

A "third-party" fills a niche that Lego does not and will not produce, such as Brickarms.

(I'm sure most of you are familiar with these companies, but I've included images to illustrate my points. )

These are just my opinions, I'd be interested to see what others have to say.

[Scubacarrot]

In my eyes, the difference between third party sellers and 'knock off brands' is answered by the question: are you a competitor of Lego's or are you supplementing Lego/making things Lego doesn't make. Of course, in the 'knock off brand' there is another distinction of a brand that copies Lego or makes it's own things with the plastic building block as the base, but that's not the question here.

The real question is wether or not you are allowed to sell custom made stuff on bricklink. If people have told you that you should be able to, I would just keep doing it, if I were you, especially if you make it clear that what you are selling is not actual Lego. The fact of the matter is that bricklink has a part of it's community that is viciously purist and hostile to anything they perceive as even a slight threat to the way they make money. If I were you, I would not worry of them reporting you, and keep selling your things. If you are still unsure, the best thing to do would be to contact Bricklink themselves, hopefully they will be able to give you the clearest answer!

[AmperZand]

So, what is the difference between a custom 3rd-party product that contains a printed LEGO sigil, or a "knock-off" of an official LEGO item.

There seem to be two questions here albeit related ones:

1. Are you infringing TLG's IP rights?

2. Are you passing your products off as LEGO?

The answer to Q2 is clearly no. You make it obvious that your products are customs.

The answer to Q1 is that it depends. If TLG has rights to the designs you're using, has continued to assert those rights and there is no prior art (i.e. someone else didn't come up with them before TLG), then you could be infringing TLG's rights. If you are, that's a matter for TLG. If BrickLink is facilitating the sale or distribution of IP-infringing products, they could be liable for any losses, so could legitimately stop you from selling those products until the question has been resolved to TLG's satisfaction.

That said, I'm not a lawyer or expert in IP in any jurisdiction and you may want to consult someone who is. You may also want to clear up any doubts in writing with TLG.

Incidentally, describing a face mask combined with a hood as a "balaclava" as you do on your site is a misnomer. A balaclava is a single item of clothing, not a two-part head covering. They do exist for minifigs: http://www.minifigcat.com/shop/product.php?productid=19653&cat=0&page=6 . More on balaclavas can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_(clothing) .

[MAB]

I don't consider MegaBloks or Kreo knock-offs. They are clones. They use the same dimensions / system as lego (who did not come up with it themselves, either) but do not copy patented lego designs.

If you are selling parts with lego graphics printed on them, then to me thy are knock-off. You are making them look like a genuine lego product. I have no problem with people making their own, but when you sell them it is a different matter. Especially on BL, as you are competing with sellers that are selling the genuine items.

[RoyalBrickCustoms]

I COMPLETELY disagree with you MAB! Have a look for yourself on BL and you will see that there are NO official standard LEGO capes that bear ANY of the official Castle-themed sigils. There are a few classic-style capes that bear a select number of LEGO emblems, but they are few and far between! My products are NOT knock-offs, but custom products, created to fill a gap that LEGO (most likely) will NEVER adequately fill!

[MAB]

While there are not official ones, they are still using lego designs. If you have lego's permission to use it, that's fine. If not, you shouldn't be selling parts using those designs. Will Lego come after you? I doubt it.

If they ever became successful, don't complain if a store called Royale Brick Customs starts doing the same thing.

[RoyalBrickCustoms]

If they ever became successful, don't complain if a store called Royale Brick Customs starts doing the same thing.

I am confused by this statement, since my store is called Royal Brick Customs. Are you saying that if the designs ever become popular, that you would go as far as to open a store with a very similar name as mine, and sell products that are identical to mine? Please explain what you meant by that statement!

[Robianco]

I think he's saying that the emblems and motifs used on your items have been created by Lego... But may have been modified slightly... Just enough to make them different but not enough that they don't fit with existing Lego products.

In the same way someone could then set up a shop with a similar name to you... Albeit it slightly different... And sell almost identical products (with slight modifications) and that would be OK.

I think he's basically saying that if you think the changes you made to the designs are sufficient to 'make them yours' then you should be ok with someone setting up a store with equally subtle changes to sell as a rival product... And that includes a subtly different store name. I don't think the poster was saying he'd do it, but that it was possible.

[MAB]

Yes, exactly that.

[pittpenguin123]

the way i see it is knock offs are somthing that is coping legos thing exactly like a bad man set and a 3rd party is making somthing lego dosnt make like star trek, or spongebob(well they used to) i think MAB is wrong here

[Sven F]

It's a tricky issue for Bricklink.

I think there should be a category for customized parts which are either modified LEGO pieces or 3rd party pieces made for LEGO, and this would be a separate category from parts/sets/minifigs.

This solution could backfire however as it would open up a highly exploitable market option for sellers. Who would decide weather Chinese paper cocktail umbrellas can be sold as custom minifig utensils or not? or clone manufacturer pieces as "custom lego compatible parts" ? It would require a subjective selection which is neither 100% fair nor labor & time efficient for whoever enforces or makes up the rules.

I have no personal negative issues with custom add-on parts, but see this as a potential problem as far as Bricklink goes.