Is anyone else fearing that Nexo Knights is meaning NO new castle them

[SirBlake]

To be fair, there's nothing wrong with consumers expressing an opinion.

Call it "whining" if you want, but that's a loaded term.

[x105Black]

To be fair, there's nothing wrong with consumers expressing an opinion.

Call it "whining" if you want, but that's a loaded term.

Zing!

[Aanchir]

To be fair, there's nothing wrong with consumers expressing an opinion.

Call it "whining" if you want, but that's a loaded term.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people should like Nexo Knights. But when a set comes out that is effectively a love letter to Castle fans, and yet those same fans still find a way to interpret it as a slap in the face simply for acknowledging that Nexo Knights traces its heritage to classic castle, shades of "unpleasable fanbase" start to creep in. It's leaping from an honest assessment that "LEGO is letting us down" to frenzied conjecture that "LEGO takes pleasure in tormenting us".

And I don't mean to imply that Castle fans are any more prone to doing this than any other LEGO fans. Do you know how often I've heard my fellow Bionicle fans interpreting anything short of hailing Bionicle as the best and most important LEGO theme as a slap in the face? "Bionicle only got a split-second cameo in The LEGO Movie! LEGO clearly hates Bionicle fans!" Never mind that in the very same breath Ninjago and Friends, two of the LEGO Group's biggest successes of teh past decade, were acknowledged in the same context. Or how many things my fellow Ninjago fans take umbrage at? "LEGO is running ads for a new theme/show called Nexo Knights! They're clearly trying to kill Ninjago!" Never mind that Ninjago is one of their most successful themes, and was recently declared evergreen. After a while all these overblown complaints start to sound a little trite. And mind you — these complaints about Bionicle and Ninjago have often been from kids and teenagers. Maybe it's unrealistic of me, but I'd like to think that adults won't see every inconvenience as a personal attack.

Considering that several actual LEGO designers are fans of things like steampunk, which has never gotten a full theme to itself, or monorails, which haven't appeared in a LEGO set in over twenty years, I don't think any argument can be made that a few years without a Castle theme prove that LEGO hates Castle fans. But sometimes a certain theme has to take a back seat for a while. It happened to Pirates. It happened to Space. It happened to Town. It happened to Bionicle. Right now it appears to be Castle's turn. I guarantee LEGO doesn't harbor any ill will towards any of us based on what themes we enjoy, and as I see it, it's only a matter of time before Castle fans get their day in the sun again.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Aanchir

[SirBlake]

Very well said, sir. I see your point. It's never a personal attack when a giant corporation ignores an individual preference. Especially when that individual is not part of their core audience. I doubt there's a significant number of 10 year olds lamenting the lack of traditional castle sets at the moment, if for no other reason, they just lack context to understand how integral it is to Lego in the big picture.

With that said, die hard AFOLs have a voice for a reason, and I personally side with anyone who is reserving their right as a consumer to voice their concerns.

As with most things in life, the reasonable stance is somewhere between the extremes.

[Sorrelon]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people should like Nexo Knights. But when a set comes out that is effectively a love letter to Castle fans, and yet those same fans still find a way to interpret it as a slap in the face simply for acknowledging that Nexo Knights traces its heritage to classic castle, shades of "unpleasable fanbase" start to creep in. It's leaping from an honest assessment that "LEGO is letting us down" to frenzied conjecture that "LEGO takes pleasure in tormenting us".

You completely lost me in the "love letter" part. It's impossible to consider a theme that has giant flying robotic horses, a mobile fortress on treads, tron lines on streets, houses, peasants clothes and basically everything, a holographic computer program wizard, robot squires, knights with power armor and shields that can practically work as a surfboard floating on the air, as a love letter to Castle fans. Using heraldries of Classic Castle sets doesn't help the cause either, since those parts aren't useable in Castle builds, as I said in my earlier message. Do I hate Nexo Knights? No, I've even bought several of minifigures of from the evil faction and other new parts (like new 1x1 pyramid slope part) on Bricklink, but that's about it.

Considering that several actual LEGO designers are fans of things like steampunk, which has never gotten a full theme to itself, or monorails, which haven't appeared in a LEGO set in over twenty years, I don't think any argument can be made that a few years without a Castle theme prove that LEGO hates Castle fans. But sometimes a certain theme has to take a back seat for a while. It happened to Pirates. It happened to Space. It happened to Town. It happened to Bionicle. Right now it appears to be Castle's turn. I guarantee LEGO doesn't harbor any ill will towards any of us based on what themes we enjoy, and as I see it, it's only a matter of time before Castle fans get their day in the sun again.

It never really happened to Town. Town basically changed its name, and only the name, to City and never took a backseat at all. This can be justified as City/Town sets appeal to a larger customer base and usually are the gateway to Lego for most people. But, I expect something similar with the other so called "evergreen" themes. With all those Star Wars sets, Lego has already postponed the Space theme for the unforeseeable future, and people who are "whining" don't want the same thing to happen to Castle as well.

I doubt there's a significant number of 10 year olds lamenting the lack of traditional castle sets at the moment, if for no other reason, they just lack context to understand how integral it is to Lego in the big picture.

This.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Sorrelon

[SirBlake]

I'm pretty sure the "love letter" he's referring to is this one:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=133047

...and it's inclusion of NK on the packaging.

[Aanchir]

I'm pretty sure the "love letter" he's referring to is this one:

http://www.eurobrick...howtopic=133047

...and it's inclusion of NK on the packaging.

Exactly. That's why I said "set" and not "theme".

It never really happened to Town. Town basically changed its name, and only the name, to City and never took a backseat at all. This can be justified as City/Town sets appeal to a larger customer base and usually are the gateway to Lego for most people. But, I expect something similar with the other so called "evergreen" themes. With all those Star Wars sets, Lego has already postponed the Space theme for the unforeseeable future, and people who are "whining" don't want the same thing to happen to Castle as well.

It DID actually happen to town — not for as long as with the other themes I listed, but it happened. The only Town sets in 2001 and 2002 were road plates, promos, and LEGO Legends re-releases (the last of which were D2C and couldn't be bought in regular stores). Otherwise, Jack Stone took the place of Town in those years, which as far as I can tell is a big part of why Jack Stone is so much more widely hated than similarly simplistic preschool themes like Fabuland which didn't really take the place of anything. It wasn't until 2003 that the World City theme was launched, followed by City in 2005.

If such a pitiful selection of sets that only marginally qualify as new Town sets amount to the theme still being active in 2001 and 2002, then arguably Castle's hardly been gone for any time at all. After all, there were two battle packs and the Juniors Knights' Castle and LEGO Movie Castle Cavalry in 2014, and the Classic Knights Set this year. But for me (and I think for most of the other people in this thread), it takes more than promos, accessory packs, and D2C re-releases for a theme to really qualify as "active".

Currently, with Pirates and Space back on hiatus, there are definitely some people who are a little touchy about what's become of those themes, but overall, I've been impressed with those communities' patience. There haven't been nearly so many Space fans derailing other themes' discussion topics or creating topic after topic in the Sci-Fi forum to complain about current original and licensed themes not being true Space or Sci-Fi. Nor have there been a lot of Pirates fans derailing the Ninjago topic or creating topics in the Pirates forum to complain about the Ninjago Skybound series not being a real Pirates theme. They certainly haven't seemed so offended at the prospect of non-Space and non-Pirates sets and minifigures appearing in the instructions of the Classic Spaceman Minifigure set or Classic Pirate Minifigure set.

I think for the most part, the fans of these themes have been looking at the state of things from a somewhat healthier perspective that "this too shall pass", and even a somewhat enthusiastic perspective of "what's next?" And it seems like some Castle fans ALSO want to look at things from that perspective, but discussions to that effect keeps getting derailed with Nexo-bashing or doom-and-gloom assumptions that LEGO simply doesn't care about their fans, or worse, enjoys going out of their way to spite them.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Aanchir

[BrickJagger]

I think for the most part, the fans of these themes have been looking at the state of things from a somewhat healthier perspective that "this too shall pass", and even a somewhat enthusiastic perspective of "what's next?" And it seems like some Castle fans ALSO want to look at things from that perspective, but discussions to that effect keeps getting derailed with Nexo-bashing or doom-and-gloom assumptions that LEGO simply doesn't care about their fans, or worse, enjoys going out of their way to spite them.

I agree, although it's pretty clear that Historic has the most full-time members of the three, so part of the reason it seems like there's more negativity in here is simply because there are more posters here.

I understand why most of the Historic fans don't like Nexo Knights, but they were the same ones who complained about how "Unusable" and "Childish" the 2013 Castle sets were. A large percentage of this forum often has some gripe with the current theme, no matter what it is. After a theme ends and a new one begins some people here simply move on to voicing their dislike for the replacement.

Is Nexo a Castle theme? To the members who say no, Space fans in 2011 didn't consider Alien Conquest a Space theme. For the official designer of the sets to tell you it's a Castle theme should be enough, although that doesn't mean that you have to like it. EB even cast a vote on whether or not NK was a Castle theme, and, by an ever so slim margin, "yes" won.

However, I do see a reason to be worried after NK ends. An worst case scenario in my book would be Castle turning into modern day pirates, with one simplistic wave every decade or so. That would be a disaster. NK is not a disaster, even if you don't like it. Many people over the years here have been begging Lego for Lava Monsters, and Lego finally delivered. The monster figures present in NK should be usable for most, if not all, of the fans of Fantasy Era here. Sure, the monsters ride around in tanks and stuff, but at least Jestro's Castle is largely usable for a Historic fan.

You can always build your own MOCs, but only Lego can provide the special printing and new pieces. NK is overflowing with new pieces and new possibilities. Many of those parts are not intended for Historic themes purposes, but at least the Sci-Fi board is also getting something new, if you want to look at it that way.

Look at Nexo Knights as a one time only thing. It's probably going to run for two more years, maybe a few more after that if it sells well, which it seems to be doing. After that, we could be looking at mediocre Castle themes for the next few years that no one is really a fan of, but at least now it's good that some people are getting what they want.

[SirBlake]

I agree, although it's pretty clear that Historic has the most full-time members of the three, so part of the reason it seems like there's more negativity in here is simply because there are more posters here.

Great point.

I understand why most of the Historic fans don't like Nexo Knights, but they were the same ones who complained about how "Unusable" and "Childish" the 2013 Castle sets were. A large percentage of this forum often has some gripe with the current theme, no matter what it is. After a theme ends and a new one begins some people here simply move on to voicing their dislike for the replacement.

That is true. 2013 compared to Kingdoms is pathetic. Compared to NK, 2013 is much preferred. I have learned some perspective in this experience and a not-so-small amount of humility as well. I'd take another round of 2013 Castle any day at this point, but it would be much better received if they managed to mix in some commoners. Farmers and barmaids and that sort of thing.

Is Nexo a Castle theme? To the members who say no, Space fans in 2011 didn't consider Alien Conquest a Space theme. For the official designer of the sets to tell you it's a Castle theme should be enough, although that doesn't mean that you have to like it. EB even cast a vote on whether or not NK was a Castle theme, and, by an ever so slim margin, "yes" won.

This has been covered many times, but you and I have a great history of friendly discourse from opposite sides of the aisle. So with that said, I think the main difference and the reason that NK is not represented in this subforum comes down to the audience. Swords and castles are very much a historic theme. Tanks and hover boards remove it from that category from an audience perspective.

However, I do see a reason to be worried after NK ends. An worst case scenario in my book would be Castle turning into modern day pirates, with one simplistic wave every decade or so. That would be a disaster.

Yes, but I'm preferring to remain optimistic. The new parts that have come out of the CMF series provide a ray of hope for what castle could be in a post-NK world.

I could also see an option C. (A being Kingdoms-like, B being like Pirates is now). City modular type sets with more detailed builds that don't have to follow the standard (1 big castle/smaller bad guy castle/tower/blacksmith like 2013) theme formula.

Edited July 24, 2016 by SirBlake

[Sammael]

Pretty sure we won't be seeing a new Castle theme while Nexo is on the shelves, but honestly, do we really want another lackluster theme like we got the last time? I'd rather have no Castle than get a new rehash of the same old, same old. I do expect a large D2C set in 2017, since the last one - Joust - was retired 2 years ago. But it's quite possible that the D2C will tie in with the Nexo Knights somehow, just like the Ninjago D2C set. Perhaps a time travel story? As long as they use a more classic palette and/or make it easy to remove the SF elements, it'll be good.

[SirBlake]

Pretty sure we won't be seeing a new Castle theme while Nexo is on the shelves, but honestly, do we really want another lackluster theme like we got the last time? I'd rather have no Castle than get a new rehash of the same old, same old.

Can't agree with you there. 2013 was uninspired, but there were plenty of good parts, some decent builds and some great and very usable minifig prints and parts (lame dragon heraldry notwithstanding).

[josykay]

I have to agree with Sammael.

The last castle line just was so... boring and uninspired... and the fact that we had only 5 sets in total made it even worse. Everything looked like we had have it before. The heraldry looked so children like, like Knights Kingdom 1.

There were some really nice printings on the foot soldiers indeed. But overall the series just was not my thing. Ironically the smallest set was IMO the best set of the entire series, since it contained many minifigures (and a dog). Same goes for the recent pirates series. The ships always look like poor men's BSBs, we essentially get the same stuff every time and that's about it.

If castle returns, it should return in full glory and not appear like a poor revamp of older days.

Nexo Knights.. I get why people dislike it. Same for Alien Invaders. When they appeared I thought "Guys... where is my damn space ship?! I don't want an truck and a helicopter. I want a space ship!" I certainly think about Nexo Knights vehicles (Although the hover horses and bots are kind of cute). But the bad guys, well they are amazing. The soldiers have amazing prints, the scurriers are really cute, and the unique monster characters look great. Especially of the second series, With the monsters haveing nearly no technology, they fit very well into the fantasy era, and they make waiting for the new castle a bit easier.

There certainly are plenty of useful parts for castle. :)

Edited July 25, 2016 by josykay

[x105Black]

Currently, with Pirates and Space back on hiatus, there are definitely some people who are a little touchy about what's become of those themes, but overall, I've been impressed with those communities' patience. There haven't been nearly so many Space fans derailing other themes' discussion topics or creating topic after topic in the Sci-Fi forum to complain about current original and licensed themes not being true Space or Sci-Fi. Nor have there been a lot of Pirates fans derailing the Ninjago topic or creating topics in the Pirates forum to complain about the Ninjago Skybound series not being a real Pirates theme. They certainly haven't seemed so offended at the prospect of non-Space and non-Pirates sets and minifigures appearing in the instructions of the Classic Spaceman Minifigure set or Classic Pirate Minifigure set.

Well I know I've done more than my part in those discussions.

I agree with the statement made about there being more Castle fans here than fans of Pirates or Space. I also think that the constant debate about the legitimacy of Nexo Knights as a Castle theme, along with the way the rumored "New Castle Theme" was brought to light as actually being Nexo Knights, are large contributing factors to the continuing discussions and distatste. I think that the fact that I just got back into LEGO when the 2013 Castle sets were disappearing (I did manage to get some, though) after being gone long enough to miss a lot of really good sets is a big part of my disappointment, personally.

Either way, I'm trying to be more optimistic and open-minded about the future of Castle (despite all indications to the contrary). I am trying not to be so bitter about Nexo Knights.

Edited July 25, 2016 by x105Black

[Sammael]

BTW, when I was in Billund in 2014, I raised the castle issue with some of the designers I know (all of them fans of castle and/or fantasy themes). I was told that castle is currently on hold because the regular castle sets no longer sell well in Germany (which was apparently the primary castle market); from what they know, German kids used to love Castle but they've now switched to Star Wars as their top LEGO theme. Furthermore, their attempt at creating a more "adult" Castle theme (LOTR) didn't go well, so they don't have enough proof that a castle theme for AFOLs would sell :( I'll try to get an update this fall when I go back.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Sammael

[SirBlake]

Well that's depressing. I certainly did my part collecting Middle Earth sets. Then there's also the tired (but true) argument about the last wave set selection failure.

Oh well, whatever the future holds, I doubt castle will ever go away forever.

[legobear]

BTW, when I was in Billund in 2014, I raised the castle issue with some of the designers I know (all of them fans of castle and/or fantasy themes). I was told that castle is currently on hold because the regular castle sets no longer sell well in Germany (which was apparently the primary castle market); from what they know, German kids used to love Castle but they've now switched to Star Wars as their top LEGO theme. Furthermore, their attempt at creating a more "adult" Castle theme (LOTR) didn't go well, so they don't have enough proof that a castle theme for AFOLs would sell :( I'll try to get an update this fall when I go back.

Given that news, I'm glad I collected as much as I could on castle. I'm thankful for the cmf series because it does offer different factions and such. It's sad to see classic castle go. Would love a D2C set someday if they'll ever do it like Ninjago did.

[x105Black]

The Germans better get back to collecting Castle sets!

[Sorrelon]

BTW, when I was in Billund in 2014, I raised the castle issue with some of the designers I know (all of them fans of castle and/or fantasy themes). I was told that castle is currently on hold because the regular castle sets no longer sell well in Germany (which was apparently the primary castle market); from what they know, German kids used to love Castle but they've now switched to Star Wars as their top LEGO theme. Furthermore, their attempt at creating a more "adult" Castle theme (LOTR) didn't go well, so they don't have enough proof that a castle theme for AFOLs would sell :( I'll try to get an update this fall when I go back.

Well, LotR was a licensed theme and because of that, even smaller sets had a prize as high as a medium sized of a non-licensed theme. That's the biggest reason why not as many AFOLs as they expected didn't buy LotR sets. If that was a non-licensed Castle theme which was more adult focused like LotR, I'm sure thing would've been different.

[josykay]

The Germans better get back to collecting Castle sets!

If there would be any for a reasonable price... :( I would even buy the last lackluster serie... But then you look at the price tags of some sets and say "Nooooo thanks". The here and then appearing castle minifigure is great, but does not replace proper sets.

Kids on the other hand, at least in Germany appear to be pretty happy with Nexo Knights, and the fact we got a second series shows this as well.

[Blondie-Wan]

Well, LotR was a licensed theme and because of that, even smaller sets had a prize as high as a medium sized of a non-licensed theme. That's the biggest reason why not as many AFOLs as they expected didn't buy LotR sets. If that was a non-licensed Castle theme which was more adult focused like LotR, I'm sure thing would've been different.

Yes, the $11 Lord of the Rings sets were much more expensive than $11 Castle sets - wait, what?

[Sorrelon]

Yes, the $11 Lord of the Rings sets were much more expensive than $11 Castle sets - wait, what?

Except there weren't any $11 LotR sets. There were only 2 sets around that price range, Gandalf Arrives and The Wizard Battle for 15€. Even smaller and less detailed sets like The Council of Elrond or Attack on Weathertop are sold for 40€ and 60€ respectively. LotR sets are also more expensive in Europe compared to USA. Even if you calculate USD:EUR as 1:1 (which isn't), most LotR sets, especially army builders like Uruk-hai Army, The Orc Forge or Battle at the Black Gate, are +10€ more expensive in Lego Stores in Europe. On the other hand, 2013-2014 Castle theme had the same prices for every set for USA and Europe. And I wasn't even joking in my earlier post. I'm not about to make a detailed comparison of piece count and prices of all sets in both themes, but going with one example; Pirate Ship Ambush, a 756 piece set, has the same price as King's Castle, which is the biggest set of its wave with 996 pieces. So, yeah, they are more expensive than Castle sets.

[Robert8]

Ok I'm going to confess

I don't like fleshies so I didn't get any LOTR sets

Edited July 26, 2016 by Robert8

[x105Black]

Ok I'm going to confess

I don't like fleshies so I didn't get any LOTR sets

I am on the fence about fleshies. I got them for their torsos, legs, and accessories. And bricks.

[SirBlake]

Man, you guys missed out. The majority of Middle Earth sets were great.

[x105Black]

Man, you guys missed out. The majority of Middle Earth sets were great.

I agree. I got multiples of a couple, including the Black Gate (on sale). Great sets. I wish some of them were bigger, but most were very well done. I'd love to see LEGO make Castle sets with the same attention to detail as the Tolkien sets.