Leevi Lion

Thanks for having me in the game, Hinckley!

Caldwell already told us how many of his teammates are left, and by extension we can assume the Monsters had the same number of folks. Reading between the lines, Caldwell doesn't really leave room for recruitment. I think they started with 3 each and they both have been killing each night. There's probably no SK. Yeah, I think he's done... although any more information to help us catch a monster would be good, though, and knowing the starting roles for the Hellions would potentially answer some questions. Do you think the mafia teams are likely to have started with different roles? Myrtle tried to give Bennett a blocking action on Day 2 but was unsuccessful, presumed blocked. Myrtle was town. Brewer didn't block Myrtle. So a scum blocker blocked Myrtle. Of course, Brewer could by lying about blocking Myrtle, but then, that would make him scum and we'd be back at the previous sentence.

Thanks, Caldwell. That makes things simpler and probably gives us a better chance of taking out a monster if you assist us. Giving you guys a better shot at victory. Did you guys have a blocker at the start or any other roles besides killing roles?

Pernilla better unvote! Care to share any thoughts on who we ought to be particularly wary of aside from Brewer?

Who, in particular, do you think it will help us know more about? It's interesting that you remember Caldwell got a vote on Day 1. That vote was unvoted and no one who has been posting vote summaries has included the unvotes in them. I mean, that Day 1 vote was kind of a throwaway vote for the Ham Sandwich comment... Shoot, now you're making me hungry. Since you haven't explained these, yet, I'll ask again. Why Pascha and Ronan? Too bad you didn't kill Gracie... You can differentiate killer alignment by... killing them and finding out their alignment! Helpful, I know... Or if they happen to kill someone of the opposite team, but since we haven't had that from Caldwell, it's not a good track record. We know he's not a monster because if he was, he would've claimed Gracie's kill. Of course, I led this off by saying I thought he was Hellion, and so far, the claim doesn't disprove that. If he's Hellion, he can't claim Gracie's kill in the event that there really is a vig or the monsters counter claim. If he's the Vig, he's telling the truth. Yeah, the alternate night kills is the most likely if Caldwell is telling the truth. The only reason I can think of is that the Hellions were in Pierot's anti-Monster group and didn't like his line of thinking on things. I approve of these blocks. One of the mafia teams most likely. Maybe that's the answer to what the mafia teams do on nights when they can't kill. Assuming Brewer is telling the truth, then Myrtle was blocked by scum. I can't remember the last time a group of mafiosi came into one of these situations without bringing some form of blocker along with them. Haydn, who are you inclined to believe? Brewer or Caldwell? I also think the 3 kills a night is too high. I suppose the other option, that we haven't thrown out yet, is that Caldwell is actually an unblockable SK and there is no vig. That would fit the alternating night kill theories, but I'm not sure how Brewer would receive feedback for such a thing. Would Brewer be told successful if he wasn't prevented from using his block even if the block had no effect? I don't think there's a day blocker. That's too specific. I think a successful block just prevents the target from using their action, even if it happens the following day. The important thing is that Myrtle was blocked and either Brewer is lying about blocking Myrtle or someone else did it.

I'm not at all sure there isn't a monster between them. I actually think there is and have an opinion on which one, I just don't think that they're both monsters. I found it disconcerting that the Caldwell lynch, which gathered a few votes quickly, stagnated abruptly. Right now, my assumption is that folks like Gracie and whoever else are their teammates (assuming I'm right about Caldwell being a Hellion) didn't want to jump on it. The Huxley bandwagon did grow quickly after my vote. I assume the Hellions were eager to have that vote take Caldwell's place, and that the monsters weren't too eager to defend a teammate who wasn't contributing much.

Vote: Caldwell Crocodile I'm reasonably convinced that Caldwell is a Hellion. If you look back at Day 3, Gracie consistently tried to push the lynch away from Caldwell and on to Huxley. In the end, it worked, but Gracie getting taken out at night made it possible to start making those connections. Caldwell was also quite eager, right after Haydn, to join us on the bandwagon to vote out Huxley. The only person who didn't seem particularly interested in that bandwagon, but voted on it, was Ember. FWIW, I also think Whitby is a Monster. He deliberated on Huxley earlier in the day, but didn't want to commit to a vote on him. That, plus some reads on other folks gets me here. I'm voting Caldwell for now because that's my strongest read. One of the interesting aspects now, from a voting perspective, is who do the mafia teams go for. At this point, we have no indication of any 3rd killer unless some teams can't kill at night. Gracie didn't seem to think that was a line of thinking worth pursuing yesterday, and she would know. So do the mafia try to take each other out and reduce the chance of getting killed at night by the opposite faction?

Thanks for that. Did you and Ember discuss the public claim before you posted it? FWIW, I believe the claim. I think it lines up very well with the day 2 discussion and with the private chat guidelines that Shaefer has given us. I also don't think you're both monsters.

Check that... Ronan did confirm the anti-something bent, too. That means all three of the folks in the anti-Hellion group made public comments on it.

Thanks for being a timely and communicative host, Hinckley!

Maybe I just think you're weird. Most of the time, people at least acknowledge when they fall into a group they're analyzing and make some platitude about how they're town. Yesterday you went into great detail in third person. That's weird. Today you went 100% the opposite direction and ignored yourself completely. That's also weird. Hence, you're weird. Weird, weird, weird. Plus, you're a hippo. I think that's reasonable, particularly since they have to bump each other off. What do you propose that we do if we make that assumption? From my perspective, anyone calling out how confused they are looks scummy. Town don't have information, so the default position should be that of curiosity and trying to understand where the new information comes in. Pierot would not have shared information as he did unless he felt it would add to the conversation and provide some insight into what's going on here. My initial assumption at the time of Pierot's posting was that he was an investigator who could only determine one type of Mafia, and that there would be another one out there who could determine the other type. I couldn't see why either Mafia team would share that information unless they were trying to merge. That would have been an extremely blatant approach to it that could've gone south pretty quickly. The other interesting thing about it was that multiple people confirmed that it seemed reasonable. Bennett went so far as to call it out as legit. Ember also confirmed it. Of course, they're both in the same masonry, if you believe them. The business about Ronan can no longer be confirmed, and Bennett's declaration of the masonry came as a soft defense of Ember. I have an opinion on whether or not the masonry claim is real and whether or not they are both Hellion, but I'd like to hear Bennett's take on Ember and the rest of this discussion first. There wasn't anyone else who seemed particularly interested in confirming the anti-something bent, so at this point, we can only guess who may have been Pierot's partner(s) unless someone comes forward. Haydn, Brewer, and I are all out (so we claim). I don't see any reason for any of us to lie about that. It's risky if there is someone still in that group alive. That just leaves Caldwell and Whitby as possibilities.

Too bad you didn't protect Ronan. I think this confirms that Myrtle was indeed blocked, since you were able to receive the action. So either you, Ember, or both of you could be monsters. Is anyone still alive from Pierot's anti-Monster masonry? Was there any indication that you could or could not recruit from the opposite masons? Ember voted for Gracie, but Gracie was a Hellion, so that doesn't clear him from being a monster. Given that you've both been able to chat with each other in private, I'm very curious what your thoughts are on each other. Looking back at Day 2, the only people who came out publicly to confirm the concept of being particularly anti-Something all appear to be in your anti-Hellion mason group. Haydn and Brewer were the two most vocally questioning the concept, which suggests to me neither of them were a part of either group. FWIW, I'm not either. Pascha also seemed to think that there wasn't much to it, but it's not clear if she didn't know about it or was trying to pass it off as unimportant... to distance herself from it. Yesterday you had a whole post where you analyzed yourself in the third person while including yourself in a group of possible people to look at. That was weird. Today, you list all the first voters but leave yourself out. That's kinda weird.

I’m a bit surprised that everyone followed me to Huxley and no one added on to Caldwell.

We need to come to a consensus and get a mafia voted off. We currently have votes against 6 of the 10 of us. This is not good, and of course, the only person who hasn't voted is Huxley. At this point, I think it's safe to say that Whitby and Haydn aren't on the same scum team. I think it's unlikely that Brewer and Caldwell are either. Unvote: Brewer Bunny Vote: Huxley Horse

Do you always talk about yourself this way? It's kind of weird, you know. Anyone else you find scummy besides Brewer and Huxley? Apparently longer? Bennett's the only one casting a vote Huxley's way at this point, and Huxley still isn't around to say anything. I missed your comments on Haydn above. Haydn was actually curious initially about the anti-Monster comment and asked what Pierot meant by it. That looks more like fishing in retrospect now that we know Pierot was town. Pascha called it a bunch of nothing and Haydn was quick to point out he didn't think so. However, he went straight to it being a scum signaling tactic at that point. Clearly, Haydn didn't like Pierot's answer that he was not going to give out more information about what it meant.