Help With Power Functioning My Train?

[Brickstarrunner]

If anyone remembers a while back, I did a LDD rendition of Disneyland's original 1955 Railroad Coaches. While I haven't made any new posts about it, I have been working on it here and there. I've been cross referencing my LDD models with Brickset's brick catalog and sellers of such bricks on Bricklink. I've switched out some bricks in favor of ones that I can buy, and the ones that don't come in the colors I would need will unfortunately have to repaint or dye existing bricks of the same shape to the color that I would need them for. But overall, I do plan on buying the necessary bricks needed to build the coaches, and eventually the whole train(s). First I will buy the bricks needed, repaint/dye the ones that need to be recolored, assemble the whole thing, add custom stickers and LEDs to make it complete, and finally admire the whole beauty. Only problem is that I don't just want it to sit on a shelf or be a push train on its own. I want my train to run using Power Functions, but I am having a bit of trouble with that.

Let me get the updated pictures of the coaches out of the way first.

EDIT: Updated with Flickr Photos so people don't have to click links to view.

I've made some slight changes over the old designs. For one thing, I made all the cars a bit longer because I had to make the combine car a little longer too. It was too short and stubby. Speaking of combine car, I redesigned the door so that it has a little more depth and detail in it. On all the cars, I extended the green highlights to reach the bottom of the coach instead of just stopping in the middle. I also removed all the furniture inside the Lilly elle (Red presidential/observation coach at the back) for a reason I shall iterate upon later.

I've already begun research into the subject of adding Power Functions onto non PF trains. While I have thought about some solutions, they don't really seem all that...well...this project is going to suck a lot of money right out of me and I just came here to make sure that I am doing this PF thing correctly, so I don't screw up and end up wasting a lot of time, money, and energy.

Anyways, I wanted to use Power Functions for a variety of reasons. A) I already bought one of the freight train sets and have a PF controller in my hands B) I don't want to go through the process of copper plating plastic track I buy in the future C) Being unrestricted by the wire of the speed controler for 9v tracks is nice D) 9v accessories are starting to become a tad bit expensive, even is PF is just as expensive, or even more in some cases. This project is already looking to be a bank drainer for me as it is, so why not build off of what I already have?

It would make sense to place the motor bogie under the tender like a 9v train, but that would led to the problem of where to put the PF battery box and wireless connection receiver.

The main problem for going about this are the bogies. The bogies on these coaches are custom built and turn about on a 2x2 turntable which connects directly to the base of the coach. PF bogies require those technic holes in order to spin and turn. I couldn't find a PF bogie in LDD, but if memory dictates me correctly, they are the exact same size as a 9v bogie engine. The base of each coach is exactly 3 plates thick. PF bogies require 2 plates with technic holes in them, and it is 1 plate taller than my custom bogies. So basically a PF bogie, or a 9v one for that matter, basically just eats away at the base of the rail car.

Now you may be asking yourself "Why put it in the back?" It is the only place I could think of that has enough room. The combine and coach cars all have seats and decoration in them. I originally planned on decorating the inside of the Lilly Belle, but it was just so tight in there I gave up and make it entirely blank. It was the only free space available.

This is thus far the best solution I could think of. I may not know a lot about stability, but if there is one thing I know, that structure looks rickety and has an easy ability to break while handling or in motion. I had to remove all three plates; 2 for the technic plates with holes and 1 so that the PF bogie is level with all the others. I left space open for the wire that connects the bogie to the battery box, much like on the freight train I bought. Not the brightest, not the smarted, and certainly not the strongest. But so far it is the only solution I could think of on how to add Power Functions to my train.

It's not just stability I am worried about, but power as well. I only own one freight train and a basic oval track (I don't know where most of my flex track and switches went...) and I did a mock up test of how the whole set up would work. The engine would be in the back with everything else up front. The train started a very slow crawl at level 2 and at times just downright stopped at curves.Level 3 showed a lot of improvement but anything above that the train started to show and sound off signs of struggling. And that was only with 3 relatively light freight cars. On my build, the PF bogie will have to push itself, 5 other coaches, a tender, and a steam locomotive. If the motor is struggling with 3 lightweight objects, how would it react to 7 heavier ones? I'm afraid I might burn out my PF motor if I try to push all that.

So any help with powering up my train with Power Functions? I am still doing some research at the moment, but I would like a little helpful push, tip, or advice in the right direction.

So far, as an alternative, I am thinking about removing the barrels and boxes in the combine's mail room and put the PF bogie motor under the tender and then rebuild the front of the combine car to (somehow) hook up the battery box to the motor. I am also really liking this idea I found. It's very compact and can fit in the combine mail room with ease, and if I am careful enough, inside the tender. I am wary about this technique though. I absolutely love it, and I don't mind going a bit extreme in making this build, but I am wary about screwing up and ruining something. If I can somehow fit everything near the front/in the tender, maybe some problems will be solved in the power issue, but I don't know. I am still researching as much as I can and am still unsure on what approach I should use.

PS: Special thanks to TheBrickster and Fugazi for compiling together the Train Tech - Tutorial & Discussion Index. It is being a really big help to me right now, as I have been introduced to a lot of potential ideas; some being relatively easy yet bulky, while others being a bit challenging but an amazing payoff. Also big big big thanks to Burnsland, an index and treasure trove of all you need to know about the Disneyland Railroad and other railroads of the Disney parks. Your boards and pictures were much needed for this.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Brickstarrunner

[peterab]

Your cars are far wider and therefore heavier than standard LEGO set cars, therefore you'll need more power than a standard train. You'll probably want two PF motors to pull it.

I'd give up on the idea of pushing the whole thing, since that causes more friction since the bogies can twist (unlike when they are pulled).

There are a bunch of examples of powered baggage cars with all the PF gear in them, take a look and either build your tender around the same idea, or a baggage car, immediately behind the tender.

[Brickstarrunner]

Your cars are far wider and therefore heavier than standard LEGO set cars, therefore you'll need more power than a standard train. You'll probably want two PF motors to pull it.

I'd give up on the idea of pushing the whole thing, since that causes more friction since the bogies can twist (unlike when they are pulled).

There are a bunch of examples of powered baggage cars with all the PF gear in them, take a look and either build your tender around the same idea, or a baggage car, immediately behind the tender.

How much power does a PF train motor have in it? Because as said in the post above, I did some tests with official LEGO rail cars, which are indeed smaller and lighter than what I have. My PF train motor was struggling to push three relatively light coaches, so I'd hate to see how one PF train motor would deal with 6 heavy coaches. Even pulling I don't see it having a huge success rate. If I were going to have to include 2 PF motors, I would do so at the front of the combine car and under the tender. Those are currently the best places I could think of currently.

And I do have to agree that I *will* have to have 2 PF train motors. While doing some research, I came across this. Basically out of all three train motor types (9v, RC, and PF) The PF one came out as the best, and if one PF train motor struggles, I will most likely require two.

While looking for more inspirations, I came across this picture from this article which gave me another idea for a possible plan that I could, in theory, execute.

I would use a medium or large PF motor and gears to run the custom bogies by trying to implement gears and what not. Only problem is that I have no experience with technic gears, torque, and what not, and I could potentially be blowing money into an area that may not harbor the results I desire. I would also love to try putting the PF motor and gears into the engine itself or creating a baggage car to ride directly behind the tender, but the problem in that is the idea. Let me explain...I am strictly wanting to limit my design down to the Disneyland Railroad's 1955 Passenger Train, which consisted of one WED Enterprises American 4-4-0, one combine car, four passenger cars, and one observation/presidential car.

The boiler of the engine is too narrow to place a large motor. A medium motor could fit, and using gears and such, power all four driving wheels and having the battery box and IP receiver run in the tender behind, but I am not sure if the medium sized PF motor would have enough power to haul both the engine and 6 coaches. The battery box may also be too big for the tender, but that can be worked around by soldering a 9v LiPo battery onto it and making the whole thing compact, as shown as an idea I put in the original topic:

The only places I would put the battery box and IP receiver are either in the Lilly Belle since there is already nothing in it, or preferably the combine's baggage room since most of it is not seen from the windows and I could easily hide the battery and IP receiver. In the end, the only thing left I could think of doing is buying a 9v train motor and building the tender around that, maybe opening up the 9v motor to amp up the power, and copper plating all my plastic track and buying a lego 9v track controller. Of course I want that to be a last ditch effort thing...

My research and modifications for the best solution to my problem rages on as I try to add Power Functions to my train...

[zephyr1934]

There are some neat features in your build. You will probably have to do some experimentation to figure out something that would work for the propulsion. I would think that a single XL motor powered truck would be able to pull your entire train (I've pulled 50+ cars with two XL motors off of one battery and IR receiver). The specific truck design you show looks a little delicate, but Cale, Nate, and Tony should all have examples of PF trucks in their photo stream.

[Brickstarrunner]

Thanks for providing those inspiration links, zephyr. I am getting an absolute kick from looking at all these photos, and some of them inspiring me in a way. I especially like these designs I found from the links you gave:

I am currently trying to combine some ideas I got from the pictures I viewed, but I wish I LDD was a bit more versatile with their brick placement But like I said, thanks for sharing the links. Much appreciated!