1:87 scale cast LEGO cars (1955-70) discussion

[Stinky]

I wanted to start this topic in the Buy and Sell Finds Forum but I can't start a topic there.

Today on eBay a H0 1:87 model of a Vauxhall Victor Estate Car was sold. Look at the price!

1900 Euro's? For a car of only 3cm's long? Weird.

The sold model was in black.

[LEGO Historian]

The 1:87 scale cast LEGO cars of 1955-70 are VERY highly sought after... by both LEGO old time collectors, as well as other model car collectors (this is in the HO railroad scale).

The 670 Jaguar and 671 Vauxhall Victor Estate cars were sold ONLY in Britain, Ireland and Australia in small plastic garages from 1963-66... as found here on Bricklink (although Bricklink is missing an entry for the 671 Vauxhall in a garage)...

http://www.bricklink...orID=9&in=A

Because the majority of these cars were white, black and red Jaguars and Victor Estates are rare... with black being the rarest. So this price... although pretty high... is not unexpected. I've seen a 1966-67 black #601 Fiat 1800 selling for $3235 (only about 1/2 dozen known in black). And I've seen a prototype (1957-58) Opel Kapitän (only about 8 known in all colors)... sell for over $4000.

Here is a (rather fuzzy) image of 1:87 670 Jaguars and 671 Vauxhall Victor Estates.... photo from my friend Jeroen in the Netherlands...

The black Jaguar is even rarer than the Vauxhall Victor Estate in that color!

I'll most some of the rarer 1:87 scale car/truck images found in Chapter 36 - LEGO Cars/Trucks with Metal Wheels (1953-70) of my LEGO Collectors Guide as DVD/download...

Gary Istok

Edited March 9, 2013 by LEGO Historian

[charlieboy]

It is crazy when you consider a couple of years ago I had a real victor that sold for less than that little old Lego one!

[Hrw-Amen]

LEGO Historian Can I ask if you know if any of these cars and lorries were made using the same molds by other toy makers at around the same time? Only I am almost certain that I had a load of these cars and lorries, the Jaguar above (Red.) looks so familiar to me and also the red fuel tanker that you have posted a few times. I know that I have these in a box in my mothers attic, but I do not recall them being of LEGO origin. That may well of course be because when I was a kid playing with them I was too young to worry about where they came from, I don't know? I do know for a fact though that they must still be there even if they are in dented / played with condition, as my father was a keen collector of model cars & trucks as well so never got rid of any. (He had all the original matchbox ones in the matchboxes.) The trouble for me is that being a cripple it is really hard to get up into the attic at mother's. I keep meaning the try, but if I know they were only made by LEGO and no-one else it would be more of an incentive to try! Trouble is something is telling me they were from promotional sets the type you got with cereals and stuff back in the late 60's early 70's, but that could just be a trick of my mind, or even from LEGO promotions for I know! My certainty level increased somewhat the other day when going through a box of old LEGO I managed to retrieve that i found a pair of the old HO/OO scale petrol Pumps that I know were LEGO to start with. Those tiny little yellow ones, but they are not in that good condition and the sticker is barely able to be made out, but I do recall them being amongst my cars when I was very young.

Edit: Note that I ask here rather than PM as it may also be of interest to others who think they may have some from their youth?

Edited March 9, 2013 by Hrw-Amen

[LEGO Historian]

Here are some images of the bottom of several of the LEGO 1:87 cars from my friend Jeroen... these will be in my next version of the LEGO DVD/download... since he was able to photograph them as close to professional as one can get...

A general comment about the 1:87 vehicles... most of those from 1955-64 only say "LEGO" on the underside... most of those from 1964-67 have "LEGO" plus the specific model name and number on the underside. There are many variations to the underside configuration... some even come in trans-clear undersides.

#671 Vauxhall Victor Estate (1962-66)...

#259 VW Pickup (1962-64)...

#250 Bedford Esso Tanker Truck (1956-64)....

2 types of VW Beetle... the lower older #261 Beetle (1961-64), and middle newer #661 Beetle (shorter, 1965-67)...

#668 Ford Taunus (1964-67)....

#667 VW 1500 Limousine (1965-67)....

#603 Citroen DS 19 (1965-67)....

Edited March 10, 2013 by LEGO Historian

[LEGO Historian]

Another very rare LEGO 1:87 model... this time it's a "KØLEVOGN" Danish promotional VW Van (#258) of circa 1961-63. Due to the hunchback top, this model is made of Cellulose Acetate and has warped somewhat.

These 258 vans were almost ALWAYS 2 colored... where the top half would be a lighter color, and the lower half would be a darker color. The solid color vans were always promotional items (some promotionals were 2 color as well).

This one sold for $1,035 , in Mint it would have sold likely for more than twice that. (Scroll down)

http://www.ebay.com/...cvip=true&rt=nc

Some of these old vans had stickers (such as this one), others had water decals.

There are about 8-10 different known names on these vans.... all very rare and extremely valuable.

Edited March 14, 2013 by LEGO Historian

[Cardinal Brick]

It is crazy when you consider a couple of years ago I had a real victor that sold for less than that little old Lego one!

That made me laugh The price doesn't really surprise me after what Lego Historain has said thanks for the info!

[LEGO Historian]

I thought I would revive this old thread after nearly a year.... I was doing some research on the old (and getting more pricely all the time) 1:87 LEGO cars and trucks of the 1955-70 era.

First of all I want to appologize Hrw-Amen for not answering your question from last year... The 1;87 cast plastic vehicles are and have been made for a long time. Unfortunately the time for LEGO ended in 1970... but other companies, such as WIKING and HERPA still make these high quality detailed vehicles.

To answer your question Hrw-Amen, no... every company made their own dies and created slightly different albeit very similar looking cars and trucks. The identification has always been on the underside, as is the case with the LEGO cars in previous posts here.

The reason I wanted to resurrect this thread however, has to do with real vs. fake LEGO truck promotional items. The LEGO 1:87 cars and trucks are in and of themselves very valuable, especially in rare colors (a 601 Fiat 1800 in very rare black can sell for over 3000 Euros!).

The Bedford trucks (1955-64) sometimes came with promotional ads on the sides, a rare and highly collectible subcategory. These can command hundreds and thousands of Euros.

One of the nicest is the 257 Bedford Deliver Van. It came with just the "LEGO TRANSPORT" lettering in gold and black on the side of the truck, and also with other promotional writing.

One newly discovered truck was for "LIBBY'S MILCH"... or milk for a German Libby's food subsidiary...

This appears to be a water decal, and the date for the Libby's milk in Germany matches the date for this Bedford truck... namely the early 1960s.

However there are some of these 257 Bedford Deliver Trucks that are not as genuine. One is listed in BL as a "SPEDITION MEIER" truck. What gives it away as a likely later addition to the van, is the use of stickers. TLG did not use stickers on any product until 1971. None of the 1955-70 1:87 vehicles appear to genuinely have stickers... only printing and water decals....

The lower truck is one of the other model railroad trucks of the 60s that had this sticker. However since TLG did not use stickers for their 1:87 trucks, it appears that the Bedford truck (top) may have had a sticker applied that was from another source.

There was another old 257 Bedford 1:87 Delivery Van that I had an image of for a long time, and was questioning the genuine nature of the promotion. It was for a "SINACOLA" truck....

Sinacola was a non-alcoholic beverage sold in Europe, and the appearance of a Martini type glass in the logo was just a coincidence. Just recently I found some other model railroad trucks from that era that had a sticker with the identical SINACOLA sticker. Since the application to the LEGO truck was way overscale, and overlapped the sides and to of the vehicle, it shows that this too is not original. TLG would never produce such a sloppy arrangement on their 1:87 vehicles.

Had these trucks been original, they could have had a value of over 1000 Euros, like the first truck in this discussion. However, these are later "mock-ups"... made to look like the real thing. And that is a problem for all collectors of rare 1:87 LEGO vehicles... differentiating between the real thing and a fake... especially when the Billund LEGO Archives are so sparse on the subject!

Edited February 4, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[LEGO Historian]

Well a LEGO collector who bought my Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide (desktop download) just found some rare 1:87 LEGO items at a retailer in Switzerland... and bought these 5 retailer boxes up in a heartbeat...

And for good reason.... they're worth a total of over 5,000 Euros!!

[Stinky]

Fantastic! Did he mention what he had to pay for all this?

[garston1]

could any members have any idea what this may be worth?

[CopMike]

Bricklink