The Forest II: Day Two

[Sandy]

I love you Brigit! Please leave that dirty Lion, you know your life would be better with me! Ooh, ooh!

Talk to me again when you're the mayor of a village.

BOING!

[Scubacarrot]

Talk to me again when you're the mayor of a village.

BOING!

That does it, I'm running for mayor!

Gordon Gorilla for Mayor 2012! Because no likes stinky lions!

Ooh, Ooh!

[Sandy]

Oh, one more thing before I BOING away!

Indeed, people strongly opposed to Petey's lynch, as if they knew he was an innocent Villager, should be scrutinised today.

This is all depending on how smart the cultists are - and since we've all gone through this once already, I believe they are very smart. A smart thing for them to do is have some of them vote for Petey, some of them oppose the vote, and some of them to say nothing. Cover all bases, you know, not throw all eggs into one basket. Not that I know too much about a cultist's state of mind, never having been one myself...

That also means that there's nothing to be learned from Petey's lynch, since it's likely there were scum on all sides.

So why are we even trying to make sense of this, when we could all just BOING BOING BOING?!

[Cecilie]

Feel free, ask me anything, look at anything, I don't care.

*squeak* Sure thing

And since nobody cares about Petey's list, I'm just going to add my thoughts about the two persons on that list that have tingled my senses too.

First up is Becka. She appears to make a lot of sense, and of course she does, she's a smart bulldog. But what I noticed about her behaviour yesterday is that after making a lot of arguments about Petey being the best lynch, she didn't place a vote to back it up. In fact, just like Petey points out, she waited to see if people would follow her, and then joined the bandwagon. Maybe not condemning behaviour, but I think it's worth to keep and extra eye on Becka.

Next is the grumpy gorilla. Really Gordon, why are you so grumpy? Not getting enough bananas in this fish loving village?

Yesterday, he accused people of defending Petey. Saying that voting for someone else was a direct defense of Petey and so on... Yet, what was he doing? He was defending Pennie, and voting for Casey, so by his own logic, he was defending Petey as well! Note that he also conveniently switched his vote to the more popular Petey when the bandwagon was becoming clear, and the day drawing to an end...

He was also calling people "incredibly aggressive", when he himself was acting pretty aggressive against anyone opposing his opinions... Just saying... Look, here's even a quote!

I am defending him sure, because I think he is an extremely poor target for lynching and it bothers me. Don't worry, I don't "trust" him or whatever you mean by that, not that it matters... And no, I have not been talking to him in private. And I come back to what I said earlier, your attack on Pennie is a direct defense of Petey, just saying.

Am I literally the only one worried that people vote like this without any reason, are incredibly aggresive without arguments and so on?

*squeak*

[MagPiesRUs]

I love you Brigit! Please leave that dirty Lion, you know your life would be better with me! Ooh, ooh!

Gordon Gorilla for Mayor 2012! Because no likes stinky lions!

ROOOOOAAAARRR!!! Piss off, monkey!

I like stinky lions.

[Rick]

Wrrrooof!

Sorry, I must have missed that. So basically, all we learned is that Casey is slightly less scummy then? Yey, my dear wife Casey

Yes, but, I'll ask you again: What would we have learned from lynching Pennie if she had turned out to be a Villager? It seems like you were ready to change your mind about her towards the end of yesterday. It wasn't enough to make you change your vote though, so I wonder why she isn't on your 'suspect list' anymore today, especially now that we know Petey was a Villager.

Yey, I'm not completely useless! I am really trying to help you know, even if I apparently am not very good at it .

You're talking and trying to get a discussion going, unlike a lot of other animals.

I would like to know who you would place in that category? All of those who didn't vote for Petey? Because there were quite a lot of those, including a good bunch of non-voters who didn't want to take a stand at all.

A lot of those voting for Pennie yesterday sounded like they were voting for her because they could easily justify the lynch if she turned up Village today. Now that Petey got lynched and is revealed to be a Villager, they can 'blame' the ones voting for him. So, for a Cultist, aware of Petey's innocence, a vote for Pennie could be seen as a relatively 'safe' vote.

But I must say that especially the non-voters and the animals who did vote but hardly contribute(d) to the discussion have me worried.

Wrrrooof!

That also means that there's nothing to be learned from Petey's lynch, since it's likely there were scum on all sides.

Nothing definitive, that's for sure, but I still think Petey was a better lynch than Pennie or Casey, for reasons that are hopefully clear by now. Aren't you still suspicious of Pennie for leading the lynch on a, now confirmed, Villager? It was enough for you to vote for him yesterday after all.

First up is Becka. She appears to make a lot of sense, and of course she does, she's a smart bulldog. But what I noticed about her behaviour yesterday is that after making a lot of arguments about Petey being the best lynch, she didn't place a vote to back it up. In fact, just like Petey points out, she waited to see if people would follow her, and then joined the bandwagon. Maybe not condemning behaviour, but I think it's worth to keep and extra eye on Becka.

I hope you remember that I spent most of yesterday arguing why your wife, Casey, appeared most suspicious to me. As the sun was nearly setting, I came to the conclusion that we might learn more from lynching Petey, because we'd get some more information on the likely allegiance of Casey and Pennie and, in my opinion, there was even something to be learned from the lynch if Petey turned out to be a Villager. Why, at that point, would I switch to Petey when I could have just hopped on the Casey bandwagon? I didn't vote at that point because I wanted to hear from the others if there were holes in my reasoning and I didn't want to further split the vote further (Petey only had one vote against him at that point) before making my final decision. Nothing that was said before the sun went under, very soon after, made me change my mind and the reasons Cameron gave for voting for Petey convinced me even more that he was the best lynch candidate. So, I did back up my reasoning with a vote when there was only one vote (Cameron's) cast in the meantime, not drastically changing the situation and certainly not creating a bandwagon. When I voted, it looked like Casey was going to get lynched. So, instead of relying on Petey's words, I'd look back at the transcripts and see what actually went on yesterday evening.

[Scubacarrot]

Next is the grumpy gorilla. Really Gordon, why are you so grumpy? Not getting enough bananas in this fish loving village?

Yesterday, he accused people of defending Petey. Saying that voting for someone else was a direct defense of Petey and so on... Yet, what was he doing? He was defending Pennie, and voting for Casey, so by his own logic, he was defending Petey as well! Note that he also conveniently switched his vote to the more popular Petey when the bandwagon was becoming clear, and the day drawing to an end...

He was also calling people "incredibly aggressive", when he himself was acting pretty aggressive against anyone opposing his opinions... Just saying... Look, here's even a quote!

It's fun to copy and paste my words without the things that make them make sense in between, that's your first point in a nutshell, basically. Of course voting for (one of) the main accuser of Petey is defending Petey. Don't be ridiculous. And not conveniently. At that point, it could still go either way between Petey or Pennie. I said how about I felt about Petey before, so I switched votes, it's quite obvious.

I called Petey aggresive because at that point there was no reason to react like that, check the timestamps, I was just asking questions. And if I am aggresive? That's an opinion, maybe, now. But at that point? I don't think so.

What was your actual suspicion again? it seems to have gotten lost, because I don't see it.

[badboytje88]

Lazlooo!!! I want to BOING with you so much right now, but the others are watching and I know you're shy about getting undressed. Isn't that why you always turn off the lights before we BOING? I don't understand why you keep calling me "Ralphy" while we're doing it, though...

I do

Becka, why don't you hang me from the hook in our bedroom ceiling with those handcuffs you keep under the bed and rub my unmentionables with chilli powder in celebration!

I'd love to watch!

I still do not regret voting for Casey yesterday and I still thinks we should look into her behavior.

[Cecilie]

Yes, but, I'll ask you again: What would we have learned from lynching Pennie if she had turned out to be a Villager? It seems like you were ready to change your mind about her towards the end of yesterday. It wasn't enough to make you change your vote though, so I wonder why she isn't on your 'suspect list' anymore today, especially now that we know Petey was a Villager.

I actually did change my mind. At first, I found Pennie's tunnel vision on Petey to be suspicious, and wanted to put pressure on her by placing a vote, but as events unfolded, I realized the situation most likely was that the three main accusees were all Villagers. It was too late to start forming any theories about someone else, and changing my vote wouldn't have made a difference, so I let it be. People were saying that we would learn the most from Petey's lynch, and while that may be for some of the more experienced furries here, for me, I didn't see what we could learn from the lynch of any of them, if they were Villagers (rather than if we had been successful in lynching a Cultist). So the answer to your question then I guess is: nothing. And I see no reason to pursue Pennie today, unless some new information about here comes up, she wasn't the only one wrong about Petey yesterday.

I hope you remember that I spent most of yesterday arguing why your wife, Casey

[...]

So, instead of relying on Petey's words, I'd look back at the transcripts and see what actually went on yesterday evening.

Fair enough. It's hard to remember everything that went on in the long debate over yesterday's lynch candidates. I suppose what you did wasn't all that strange, and you do provide sound arguments behind your actions, unlike a lot of others here... And Petey's word may not help us today, but it doesn't hurt to have a look at a confirmed Villager's word anyway, without thinking it's an absolute truth.

What was your actual suspicion again? it seems to have gotten lost, because I don't see it.

My suspicion is that you, in my opinion, do what you accuse others of doing. So I'm really just using your words against you. The way I interpret them anyway. But then according to you, I twist everything around, so . Funny that I find that's what you are doing

*squeak*

[Scubacarrot]

Crap, I forgot my animal sound, so here is double the amount: Ooh, ooh, Ooh, ooh!

[Pandora]

As a side note,

I don't think analyzing last nights events is going to get us anywhere today, unless we have some witnesses who can tell us more about what happened. We have no grounds for comparison, so the information may only become useful later, when we see how future nights pan out, and thus can know more about if last night was different in any way.

I may have said:

It's difficult to speculate on what god may have done in his infinite insanity, and picking up patterns will unfortunately only be possible after a second night.

However, I do think analysing and speculating over last night's event is useful. As a result of that discussion and debate we get to hear various people's theories and opinions, and that is useful in forming our own opinions, especially as it's unlikely that we will have witnesses coming forward at this early stage. For instance we heard of Ernie's theory about Wallace being caught in a paranoid bear trap, and while I don't believe that is what happened, these theories are interesting nonetheless.

Meh-eh-eh-eh-eh

[Sandy]

Aren't you still suspicious of Pennie for leading the lynch on a, now confirmed, Villager? It was enough for you to vote for him yesterday after all.

I am, but I don't want to "tunnel-vision". In my mind there's a good chance Pennie was a scum rousing up a lynch for a villager, but there's always the option that she was just a villager thirsty for some panda blood.

By the way, we use imported panda blood to make Lionel's "little tail" go BOING! It's really effective, trust me.

Is anyone up for some petunias? I got sick of watching them in my garden so I cut them all. You can pick some off my trunk.

[Scubacarrot]

Is anyone up for some petunias? I got sick of watching them in my garden so I cut them all. You can pick some off my trunk.

I'll take them... Or you.

Ooh, ooh! Can't I just roleplay like I'm a guy in a freaking furry suit? Would make it a lot easier for me. And I could have an awesome mustache!

[Hinckley]

Mod note: Because I remember in Bloodbrick II how hard it was to keep to the roleplay Action while discussing the game in the thread (i.e. defending myself from a lynch) I have reduced the penalty for roleplay Actions (i.e. making your animal sound) to one vote per occurrence, as opposed to the penalty for breaking a game rule, which is a vote for 1/4 of the living players. (i.e. breaking a rule today with 23 living players will get you 5 votes). But be prepared because the penalties for not making an animal sound start in a few hours. This will happen throughout the game. There will be a new rule like this every day, so get used to it now. Don't get yourself lynched by not paying attention to the new rules. You're being fairly warned! You're being fairly warned!

Can't I just roleplay like I'm a guy in a freaking furry suit? Would make it a lot easier for me. And I could have an awesome mustache!

Speaking of penalties, what is this? An out-of-character post? In the day thread? That should incur a five vote penalty, but I'll let you off with a warning for now. But nobody else will be getting any warnings for violating the rules. Come on, we're practically all vets of the game here...

[Shadows]

But I must say that especially the non-voters and the animals who did vote but hardly contribute(d) to the discussion have me worried.

That's a little odd to me, given that it's likely the scum were smart enough to hide in every possible quarter, vocal, quiet, some voting for Petey, some for other people (maybe even other scum), not voting, or even changing their votes to get on or off the bandwagon (there was some of that, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more thoroughly).

Of course, there is also the point to be made that of all the people Petey suspected, you were the one he chose to vote for. Still, he didn't really try to sell that vote very hard and to me it felt more like a reaction to being voted for than an honest suspicion.

That said, the thing that makes me the most suspicious isn't what people did, it's how strongly they did it. It was day 1, no one knew anything for certain (except the scum), yet there were people who vehemently baited and attacked Petey, even going so far as pointing out (repeatedly) that they were the one who first attacked and voted, people who seemed to defend him for vague or no given reasons, and people who felt strongly about other votes, but none of them quite like the situation with Petey. It was day 1, people, how can you feel strongly enough about anyone to kill them or risk your own life defending them? Petey was definitely the most suspicious of the group, but even thinking that I didn't feel like he had crossed the line into lynch territory. At the same time, I didn't feel he had defended himself enough for me to actually oppose the lynch, he just seemed like a really good target for the investigator. I can't see how anyone else reached a conclusion, and that's what gnaws at my haunches (baaaaaaaa!).

I'd like to see the people who felt so strongly on either side explain how you got to that point, because it's clear to me that some of you were posturing for the sake of the discussion today, knowing that you could either shrug it off as a day 1 mistake or try to use it as a sign that you are town. Neither point is valid, so stop trying to hide behind them. If you could take a strong stand yesterday, stand up and take it today and explain yourself. The only people who knew exactly how to vote were the scum, the rest of us had to make a decision, one we may regret now (I don't regret not jumping on the bandwagon as much as I would regret if it I had), but one that we should be able to justify beyond, "aw gee, I just had a feeling."

Seriously, some of you have some explaining to do and it's about time someone pointed it out.

[Sandy]

Seriously, some of you have some explaining to do and it's about time someone pointed it out.

I doubt anyone will explain anything to you if you don't give their names.

Just saying. BOING!

[WhiteFang]

What a turn of events, in Day 2... It is very unfortunate that Petey was innocent... and, there was little that we can do, but to pray that we will continue to work hard to resolve this and save our village whatever we can.

Still, it is very great to know that we had manage to nail the first cultist!!! This whole bear trap thingy is just so ingenunious! Kudos to the one, who had thought of such an idea! Whatever the case, I am strongly putting my faith that whoever and whatever kill that cultist is no sheer luck and is likely to be on the side of the village, of course there is a possibility of a neutral role like the serial killer taking part in this. I am glad that he/she managed to nail the first, which no cultists will have expected.

I hope this will give us more possibilities to ponder about, because we had lost Bristol as well.. and till now, it could be the cultists who kill Bristol or someone else. I am sure there are many other things that had happened last night alone, but we might only be able to relate them and form a pattern in the latter nights. I do hope we are onto something and I am fairly confident that we are!

[Shadows]

I doubt anyone will explain anything to you if you don't give their names.

Just saying. BOING!

They should know who they are, and if they attempt to avoid the subject by acting like they don't, they're just that much scummier. Being honest enough to approach the subject directly is part of the behaviour we need to analyze.

BAAAAAAAAA!

[CorneliusMurdock]

Aren't the scum trying to kill all of us? Tell me, why shouldn't they have killed Bristol? Who would've made a better target, in your opinion?

Bristol kept to herself most of yesterday, and to me that could also mean she had something to hide. She obviously wasn't a Cultist, so perhaps the scum thought she had a powerful night action?

WOOF! Of course the Cultists are trying to kill us all but they won't do so randomly. As others have pointed out, Bristol is always quiet. Why should her normal behavior make the scum think she was hiding anything?

Speaking of lurkers, I placed two votes yesterday trying to get some quiet people to speak up. The first was Bristol and she spoke up at her first opportunity. The second was Wallace who, while he hung around during that time, ignored my vote until he placed a bandwagon vote on Petey.

What's interesting to me is that while Wallace was ignoring me (and as I now think looking for advice from his scum pals), someone else did argue with me about my vote for him.

I don't recall ever defending her or attacking Wallace Manatee. I was trying to get Portia to vote for one of the main candidates for today instead of a lurker, and since she was so focused on Bristol, I pointed out that that she forgot about Wallace. Truly, her voting for Wallace is no better and I hope she ends this silliness soon and votes for Casey.

Not too pushy yet. But she calls my vote silly and wants me to vote for Casey. Reasons? Just that I'm being silly. That's a great reason to me to change my vote.

And don't try to make it out as a heroic act you're doing - while the intention may very well be good, your opinion is more valuable in the main bandwagons - if we lynch one of them, we get much more information than just lynching a lurker.

However, I do see what you're doing, and now, let me tell you why it won't work. You may - actually, no, you will - get the lurkers to speak up with your votes. But guess what you'll get? You won't get insight as to who's scum or not from them. No ma'am. You'll get "Why are you voting me? What the fuck is up with that?" and then they won't say another word for the rest of the day.

Quite pushy now. I should change my vote because she wants my opinion? I gave my opinion already that I didn't think any of the bandwagons were worth joining. And she admits to bandwagoning here. And then suddenly she's afraid my one vote will lynch poor Wallace. Why defend a lurker?

And for the record, I think we got some information from the "lurkers" speaking up. I strongly suspected Wallace of being scum based on his lack of response to my vote. He was around for most of that time and he only showed up to place a bandwagon vote. I thought that he was afraid of speaking too much and giving away his scumminess. If the bear trap was indeed our vigilante, someone else must have thought this behavior was suspicious enough to kill him.

[Scubacarrot]

snip

Wow, ooh,ooh,ooh!. this actually makes sense. I hope the cow speaks up soon.

[Sandy]

Quite pushy now. I should change my vote because she wants my opinion? I gave my opinion already that I didn't think any of the bandwagons were worth joining. And she admits to bandwagoning here. And then suddenly she's afraid my one vote will lynch poor Wallace. Why defend a lurker?

L33t deduction skillz, Portia! You're one BOING of a poodle.

Let us see what happens when the voting starts... Will people scramble, or will there be a stalemate? Casey Cat and Pennie Pig are still under scrutiny from yesterday, while Carly Cow and Maurice Mouse have been raised as suspicious today. Plenty of options, but is any of them right? Hmm hmm...

BOJOING!

[Tamamono]

Moooo!

And one more thing. Petey died giving us a list of his suspects. Given that we now know he was a Villager, we should have an extra look at that list, even if it is all based on Day 1 behaviour...

Mmm, definitely. Petey is the only completely confirmed townie (well, Bristol too... ), so we should definitely look into his judgement.

Right from the off you were vehemently against it. Even before people had voted. At a time when people were looking more at Casey. Almost as if you knew Petey was a town member, and could claim a higher ground of morality and innocence the next day. Despite being asked twice, you managed to skilfully avoid answering why you felt that way... most likely because you were preparing the salad to serve alongside me, when I get eaten!

Because I actually listened to what Petey had to say. That much made it blatantly obvious that he wasn't cult. Those who voted him would have done well to dooooo the same.

Oh, was I asked that? Well, I listened to Petey, at least?

[Rufus]

Not too pushy yet. But she calls my vote silly and wants me to vote for Casey. Reasons? Just that I'm being silly. That's a great reason to me to change my vote.

I had noticed that Carly was very quick in dismissing the lynch against Petey, before a single vote had been cast. And we did say that we would look at people who seemed to know Petey was town. She did point out that there were other lurkers besides Bristol, though didn't make it clear of whom she was talking until Portia had already voted for Wallace. It does strike me as rather culty behaviour.

*snappety-snap!*

Because I actually listened to what Petey had to say. That much made it blatantly obvious that he wasn't cult. Those who voted him would have done well to dooooo the same.

Oh, was I asked that? Well, I listened to Petey, at least?

What exactly did Petey say that convinced you he wasn't a cultist? I thought what he said made him look rather scummy, personally. *snap*

[Professor Flitwick]

Squeak.

Mmm, definitely. Petey is the only completely confirmed townie (well, Bristol too... ), so we should definitely look into his judgement.

It's a list that clearly lacks validity; notice the absence of Wallace? Clearly we should take the list with a pinch of salt. Speaking of Wallace, when are you going to answer Portia's questions about why you defended him? Or Shawna's question (although not direct solely at you), asking why you felt so strongly about Petey's lynch. I know you said you 'listened to what he had to say', but I think she was looking for something... more. And, please hurry up this time, I know it took you till just now to answer my question from yesterday, and I think we require speedier answers. Maybe you're just too busy preparing the sauce dip for when you eat me!

Because I actually listened to what Petey had to say. That much made it blatantly obvious that he wasn't cult. Those who voted him would have done well to dooooo the same.

Examples?

[CorneliusMurdock]

Woof!

Yeah, what's taking so long, Carly? Seeking advice from your scummy team mates like your buddy Wallace did yesterday?

While I wait, I'll finish up my reading of Harriet Slutter and the Goblet of Guts. It's a cautionary tale about not thinking with your head.