-The Hyphen-

What if LEGO changed the name of the Castle theme?

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Both "knights" and "kingdoms" are not representative of the entire theme, though "knights" rolls off the tongue a little better. To be honest, the whole thing reeks of some low-level marketing guy trying to justify his/her existence in the company.

I can sort of understand why they want to move away from 'Castle' since I can see that the name isn't dynamic and exciting as it might be. I'm surprised so many like 'Kingdoms' though, since Knight's Kingdom was so disliked generally. It does seem to me that putting the focus back on Knights would be a step towards the 'action theme!' path again.

It was a logical move for 'Town' to go to 'City' in terms of expanding from a sleepier pace of life to a more metropolitan hustle and bustle, but I'm not sure a suitable correlation exists for Castle.

Honestly, the line has bigger problems than re-branding can fix if they can't establish a market for something like Fantasy, considering how ubiquitous those themes are in popular culture.

Or maybe it's just that if POTC does arrive in 2011, the Fantasy elements (evil skellies and such) will move over to Pirates and away from Castle, so they're making a cut now rather than later.

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Lego castle is the best but I think Lego kingdoms could have some real potentiol compared to the other choices. However I agree that they could focus more on important things like where they see castle going.

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I am in favor of "Lego Kingdoms" as a theme title. Perhaps the Orcs will finally establish a real kingdom. n_n

ORC!

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Honestly, the line has bigger problems than re-branding can fix if they can't establish a market for something like Fantasy, considering how ubiquitous those themes are in popular culture.

Very true.

I honestly think that LEGO really needs to rethink its approach to marketing sub-themes. It's almost as if the LEGO brand is suffering from some sort of ADHD. Slapping a new label on the box every few years seems like a good way to dilute the value of the brand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Steve Witt recently state that City, Castle and Space were LEGO's three mainstays? If this is the case, why change the name of the theme to something that is far more ambiguous? I actually liked UsernameMDM's suggestion of sticking to the Castle label with a sub-title to differentiate between different Castle lines (very much akin to the way many of us AFOLs currently operate).

I sincerely hope that LEGO appreciates that what is inside the box is just as important as the label they slap on the front of it. Interesting sets (both in build and variety) really go a long way.

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I'm surprised so many like 'Kingdoms' though, since Knight's Kingdom was so disliked generally.

To be fair, both "knights" and "kingdom" share the same negative connotation. I am also surprised that "kingdom" is doing so well. However, it seems the choices are unimaginative and bland, and perhaps it's the best one among the limited choices. After all, castle probably isn't the best choice on the list either. I personally would prefer knights over kingdom, but that's just me.

Honestly, the line has bigger problems than re-branding can fix if they can't establish a market for something like Fantasy, considering how ubiquitous those themes are in popular culture.

It bothers me that "fantasy" isn't among the choices. It's the most logical one, given the direction of past few "castle" lines and the most recent line. There has been elements of magic in the line since Dragon Masters, and the extreme that this recent line has taken the "magic" subtheme reeks of fantasy. They might be reluctant to seem like they're cashing off Harry Potter and the sudden interest in the fantasy genre, but that seems a bit hypocritical when there outright was a Harry Potter licensed theme.

Who do they have working there these days anyway?

Or maybe it's just that if POTC does arrive in 2011, the Fantasy elements (evil skellies and such) will move over to Pirates and away from Castle, so they're making a cut now rather than later.

I'm not sure how much stock I'd place in a PotC line. It's a rumor only, and the what's keeping this rumor going is the cut of the pirates line right after its reintroduction. It's logical to think that with a Disney agreement, that there'd be a PotC line with the movie. But it could also be one of those things that won't materialize.

And to be fair, PotC is only partially fantastical. It's set in the real world, and the elements of fantasy are more along the lines of witchcraft, mysticism, and sailors' folklore than dwarves, trolls, and dragons. But if they really think the potential PotC line will cannibalize the current castle line, I have to wonder where they'll take the castle line in 2011 then. The suggested names would make sense if they're going back to human-minifig vs. human-minifig, but I thought TLG was trying to move away from that.

Part of me is hoping we'll see a real castle theme revival--and I couldn't care less what name it'll be released under--instead of more fantasy, but since elves remain unreleased, the other part of me wants that to come out first before they drop this line altogether. ;)

I actually liked UsernameMDM's suggestion of sticking to the Castle label with a sub-title to differentiate between different Castle lines (very much akin to the way many of us AFOLs currently operate).

Funny, town, castle, space, and pirates used to be subtitles to Legoland. But there have always been sub themes, and I'm not sure that's the issue right now. I'm not sure "castle" is a good name for the theme anymore. It was appropriate with the Black Falcons and Crusaders and such, but now? I mean, the theme has had everything from dragons to ninjas under the "castle" brand even before the recent run of trolls and dwarves. On one hand, it doesn't make sense to stick with the castle name anymore, but on the other hand, I have to wonder what their game plans is with the names they suggested.

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I know! Let's name it "ORC"!

Ok that was bad joke...

But Lego "Knights and Kings" or "Dragons and Knights" sounds nice, isn't it?

But it would be awesome if they make crazy"Knights vs Pirates" theme

Edited by Lordofdragonss

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Thank you very much for this information, -The Hyphen-! :classic:

I'm not that worried about that news:

"Castle" is the best name TLG can use for the Castle theme since with this name all people around the world can connect the most. Knights and all the other names are for people for which English isn't the mother language not that known than Castle. So I bet that TLG won't change the name.

The only thing I can imagine is that - if TLG discontinues the current "Castle" line in 2010 but then comes back with a new Castle theme in 2011 - they'll use a new emblem and different colors and typefaces.

Only if they released a new Forestmen theme or Ninja theme (which is both imo very unlikely) I could imagine that TLG wouldn't name them "Castle" but "Robin Hood" and "Ninja".

Klaus-Dieter

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ADMINS: Please remove this topic/thread, the original information was "confidential" and the poll information has already been removed from Brickset. TLG has a different way to poll the greater AFOL & FOL community. These type of "focus" groups won't happen again if this type of Leaking continues.

Thank you!

My Flickr

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ADMINS: Please remove this topic/thread, the original information was "confidential" and the poll information has already been removed from Brickset. TLG has a different way to poll the greater AFOL & FOL community. These type of "focus" groups won't happen again if this type of Leaking continues.

Thank you!

My Flickr

With all respect, why not let the company decide if they see something as confidential or not. And let them decide if they want any leaked information removed from fan-sites.

Front

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Well, it is leaked and it is confidential and TLG is disappointed -- I know for a fact. Obviously TLG can't enforce any fan sites (other than legal domain violation) so I am asking as a *favor* to the Admins here. Sure, we all in the LEGO community want to have the latest info/news, yet a premature poll taken out-of-context from a "confidential" source doesn't demonstrate good integrity -- not to mention give our competitors inside info!!!

TLG may not continue such focus groups if this is the way they are rewarded :(

This "Graham H" kid used very poor judgment.

Sincerely & Respectfully,

~LMM

With all respect, why not let the company decide if they see something as confidential or not. And let them decide if they want any leaked information removed from fan-sites.

Front

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I'm not sure why everyone is so up in arms over the potential switch to LEGO Kingdoms; like someone earlier mentioned, this would allow TLG to make sets based on many different "kingdoms" from the past like Vikings, Ninjas, etc. without having to make subthemes (which I'm not against but apparently LEGO is).

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With all respect, why not let the company decide if they see something as confidential or not. And let them decide if they want any leaked information removed from fan-sites.

If a lady asks something, who are we to refuse? :wink:

ADMINS: Please remove this topic/thread, the original information was "confidential" and the poll information has already been removed from Brickset. TLG has a different way to poll the greater AFOL & FOL community. These type of "focus" groups won't happen again if this type of Leaking continues.

Thank you!

I never like to kill a good discussion, so I've re-written the first post a bit (and changed a bit of info here and there in some of the other posts) so the discussion can continue. Have a look :classic:

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Good job Bonaparte :classic:

I actually asked Whitefang to have a look at this thread, but see you fixed it.

It's not like it's gonna be ages before people see what's up for 2010.

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Actually LEGO Kingdoms would be an improvement. "Castle" was always kinda limiting and didn't really fit for Vikings, Ninjas etc. Now they could have the Knight's Kingdom, Orc's Kingdom, Ninja Kingdom etc.

Of course we will just keep referring to it as Castle in the same way we still call it "Town".

If it sells more product and keeps the company profitable and producing amazing sets like they have done over the last three years they can call it 'Shirley" for all I care. :classic:

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Well, it is leaked and it is confidential and TLG is disappointed -- I know for a fact. Obviously TLG can't enforce any fan sites (other than legal domain violation) so I am asking as a *favor* to the Admins here. Sure, we all in the LEGO community want to have the latest info/news, yet a premature poll taken out-of-context from a "confidential" source doesn't demonstrate good integrity -- not to mention give our competitors inside info!!!

TLG may not continue such focus groups if this is the way they are rewarded :(

Frankly put, those reasonings are pishposh! We are aware that this information is premature and might never take place, but that's exactly why it shouldn't be such a big secret. It's not like the names are pure greatness that any competitor would instantly want to copy, anyway... :hmpf_bad:

We must remember that TLG is a huge corporation that doesn't falter over "leaks" like this one, not one kindly old entrepreneur working in his workshop, trusting his lifework in our hands. TLG's main motivation is money, and for that it should damn well keep us fans happy, and not pose such petty threats at us.

I love the products the company does, but I already give them enough money so I don't have to kiss their behinds every time we get a tiny crumble of information like this. :tongue:

Anyway, it's great if the Castle-theme really is continued, whatever the actual title is.

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If a lady asks something, who are we to refuse? :wink:

Thank you kind Sir.

Yes, the topic itself is very interesting indeed. No doubt there may be some 'more public' poll. It was just the ill-begotten way it came to light that had me very concerned. However, now that it has, a certain Focus group may change its ways. Amazing that it took 3 years for a kid to spill such a leak!

Being a huge fan of Fantasy Era myself ... well, we'll just have & see ~

Frankly put, those reasonings are pishposh!

Yes, Sandy, I understand your viewpoint & facts.

I have a very special reason for liking to keep confidential information confidential. Certainly TLG doesn't need little'ol me to help them. At least they are doing focus groups now -- rather than just allowing a person to launch a Galidor line :cry_sad:

I love your Princess comics by the way! I shall be following them too!

~LMM

Edited by Bonaparte

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Yes, Sandy, I understand your viewpoint & facts.

I hope you didn't interpret my words as directed towards you. I was just lashing out my frustration for TLG, it's not in my habit to shoot the messenger. :wink:

I love any person who likes Princess Quest, because it tells so much about them as a person. :grin::wub:

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Good job Bonaparte :classic:

I actually asked Whitefang to have a look at this thread, but see you fixed it.

It's not like it's gonna be ages before people see what's up for 2010.

Hello Front, thanks for your notification. :blush:

Bonaparte has re-aligned the discussion for us, and for me to view it this way, I don't really like the idea of changing such a wonderful and simplistic name, "Castle" to something else. To be honest, I am still anticipating what are the stuff in store for us next year.

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I hope you didn't interpret my words as directed towards you. I was just lashing out my frustration for TLG, it's not in my habit to shoot the messenger. :wink:

Would you push them down a dry well? :tongue:

But uh, I came too late to see anything but Kingdoms sounds the best.

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Lets change lego city now into "every day life of a common folk and business" :tongue: . For crying out loud, let the castle be castle!

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I agree with Sandy. There's no reason to bend over backwards for every little thing that makes somebody inside TLG mad. If that were the case, then we might as well cease discussion about all future sets and lines, because I'm sure that makes somebody mad too. Seeing as how the cat's out of the bag, it seems pointless to try to shut everybody up. I don't mind the requests to remove pictures, but to outright stop a discussion is policing thought, and for a company that built its reputation on products that serve creativity and individual thinking, that's quite the 180. TLG has never asked that the discussion cease in the past, even after numerous leaks. Such a request is unlike them, and I can see why it is coming through a third party this time. For what it's worth, Bonaparte's response couldn't have been any better balanced between TLG's supposed wants and the community's wants.

If TLG is only recently starting to do focus groups, then it explains a lot of their past failings, and probably explains why the choices for this one seem so monotonous. I did remember something about the yellow for minifigures coming out of a result of a focus group, but I guess they stopped trying after that.

After letting the information settle for a bit, I think I can see the reasoning behind "kingdoms" a little more. I don't really like it in general; it doesn't quite roll off the tongue, and it reminds me of Knight's Kingdom (and worse, Knight's Kingdom II, the horribleness of which I'm still not over and still makes me hesitate whenever I pick up a set, regardless of size or theme), but ninja and vikings would both fit snugly under this name (in fact, I'd prefer "empires" to diminish the KK connotation, but I can see how that name isn't quite appropriate either, since empire would indicate something grand, and that just isn't going to happen).

"Kingdoms" would be a fair name if TLG wants to diversify the line beyond the fantasy theme, especially if they're planning to return to human factions, which as I said before would really excite me. But again, the chances of that aren't terribly great. At most, we may see more mythological creatures in the future as part of the opposing faction, but that again would make "fantasy" a better name. "Kingdoms" would be a very, very distant fourth if a large part of the theme contained fantastical elements like magic and mythical creatures, but second if the theme went back to all humans again.

For the record, my second pick after "fantasy" would've been "warriors," and a distant third would be "knights." "Knights" is limiting, though it actually may work depending on where TLG wants to go with the line. But "warriors" is an excellent all-purpose word that conveys the same meaning without references to a specific class. "Warriors" can apply equally as well to humans vs. humans, and humans vs. non-humans. It's not quite as snazzy as "fantasy" which is why it loses out, but should fantastical elements be relegated to the background in the future, I'd think it the ideal name for the line. In fact, it even encompasses the wild west sub-theme. The only thing is that it clashes with bionicle slightly, but I've never thought of that line as Lego proper, so that doesn't bother me. Don't get me started on the atrocity that is bionicle...

It's mostly guesswork that I'm doing, but I wonder if the participants in the study actually have advanced information on where the line will be going. After all, it's a little ridiculous to ask a bunch of people to rename a product line without giving them some context. The popularity of "kingdoms" may indicate that TLG is returning to human-faction vs. human-faction for this line, as in multiple kingdoms at war with each other. One of the factions probably involves knights, but that I think we already take for granted, though it rules out the possibility of non-knights factions (vikings, ninja, etc.). It may also explain the popularity of "castle," as we may see castles released in quick succession in the near future (like KK2 *shudder*). And the fact that somebody like myself can draw such conspiracy theories with this kind of information may be why TLG is so furious over the leak. That and the little snippet about Lego Universe, though to be honest, I'm not sure it's that groundbreaking (I had imagined some of these things to come out as marketing materials prior to product launch to generate interest and hype).

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I hope you didn't interpret my words as directed towards you. I was just lashing out my frustration for TLG, it's not in my habit to shoot the messenger. :wink:

No worries, I am not bleeding -- so you missed :tongue:

I did not interpret your words as directed toward me. LEGO must be the most "fan-owned" hobby/creative product on the planet! It is amazing how every fan has a slightly different view on certain aspects, yet we are all united in its Legacy!

Oh, and the phrase "pish-posh" makes me laugh anyway!

I love any person who likes Princess Quest, because it tells so much about them as a person. :grin::wub:

Funny, that I had been in my account panel uploading my Avatar pic, to then return to this topic and see your signature links! Wonderful creativity in a fantastic theme, which you have kindly shared here! Thanks!

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These type of "focus" groups won't happen again if this type of Leaking continues.

As I recall, it was these type of focus groups that got us new brown and bleys... So, if leaks will stop focus groups, then I say: "leak away."

:laugh:

Steve

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