166Eric

I think my interest in this story solely hinges on whether the idea of mass producing heroes was supposed to be ironic or not. If this is like a Disney story with a Monsters inc set up and a Hercules-style challenging of shallow ideas of heroism, then I'm hooked. If it's actually just a factory that makes robot heroes that go fight bad guys and come home again, then I might look back and say I should've known when I read names like 'William Blaze' and 'Duncan Bluk'.

Can't seem to find these revelations. Anyone have a link?

I never thought I'd be this excited hearing this news. Bionicle without the sets and media swarm is a bit upsetting, but it's also Bionicle off the chains, which is probably the most healthy option for the story. 1) From here, anything could happen to the story beyond just continuing without set restrictions (must... not... relate to Star Trek again...) and 2) assuming this new line receives the same amount of investment, we have something of a Bionicle 2 to follow in addition. I suppose it's a bit optimistic to think that some big producer would come along and pick up the franchise with Greg in tow, but having seen praise for the universe from screenwriters and people outside the community, as well as the pitch for a theatrical film Lego turned down a few years ago, I wouldn't rule it out.

The story does say it's his fault. But I dunno, if you included that his mind was focused on something else when he should've been on alert like the rest of his team (or something along those lines), it might give more credibility to him blaming himself. Like if he'd been hyping himself up to go down as a legend and then messes up when a test of such character actually arises, and instead becomes the leader who let his Toa team die.

Lesovikk was a pretty interesting character, just so long as he doesn't get too self pitying. And Strakk too if he's applicable? His complete lack of morality would be interesting for the others to wrestle with (unless this is supposed to be like the actual A-Team).

Well, he's been teasing a bit by being deliberately unclear but I think it's all meant to be taken light-heartedly. I don't think he ever indicated the line would end either, so there's another good sign.

Does it specifically say it's going to be replaced? "End of Saga" just makes me think "beginning of new Saga" since I'm too lazy to go brush up on the definition of that word. Also, BIONICLE: The next generation is a new name . Can't seem to stop relating this to Star Trek except for the fact that, as said, the line isn't doing badly at all. Come to think of it, you could have said Mindstorms was replaced by Mindstorms NXT.

I may be misreading this topic but when I see people citing things like Clutch Powers or Power Miners being a Bionicle replacement, it sounds like we weren't already aware that Tinseltown were doing other LEGO themed movies alongside its' Bionicle series. I'm sure I've heard people on this site reference that pretty recently but I'll go ahead and just link to this article anyway. Also, I can't really grasp how the interest of the target audience would shift from Bionicle to other original LEGO themes. Bionicle is Lego's only original theme which is a lot more akin to something like Avatar or Ben10 (the franchises themselves, not the Lego lines). As far as I know, and from my own childhood memory, kids tend to invest themselves a lot more in those more serious types of stories than the ones given to the minifig lines, which have always been a lot more light hearted.

Yeah I wondered about that. I guess that could kinda suffice then. I still like Tahu's redesign best though.

I may have heard somewhere that Tuma's character was deliberately changed for the sake of the target audience. I was really put off by it as well, but I guess I can understand where they're coming from if it was deliberate. If anything though, I found Legend Reborn didn't drastically alter it's characters as much as the first 3. Sidorak and Lewa being pretty clear examples. I do remember though, that the reason for the first 3 movies was given as, "the film makers haven't read the books and wouldn't know." As opposed to, "the character was deliberately toned down for the film." I also expected Ackar to be represented as really self pitying and annoying when I read that he was 'worried about reaching his peak', but he didn't turn out too bad, although that was only one aspect of his character. His leadership role turned out to be a different story.

The story fans like us make up very little of the ammount of people who buy the sets. I may be wrong but I'm sure the target audience was only consulted for what they wanted in the sets rather than the story. It's also been constantly said that, as far as set design goes, we in the older fanbase generally lose out to the target audience because Bionicle is made for and aimed at them. They're the party that has statistically always appreciated the toy aspect of the franchise more than us, and they're the ones who's parents' wallets keep the franchise alive. I don't think giving the hardcore story fans what they want is going to increase set sales by very much at all, and then there's this quote from Greg: I'll make an effort to understand your wording of 'pleasing the fans' vs 'keeping the fans,' but you're drawing a very hazy definition. The story team still have minds of their own and can still make personal decisions on where Bionicle should turn in each upcoming year. It seems like a far stretch to me that the story team, or Greg in particular, will just do anything the fans ask for in some desperate effort to make them stay. The move to Metru Nui, for one, was actually planned since about 2001. Then there's also the argument that stories are written with the intention of engaging their audience and making them want to stay and find out more. There's nothing wrong with this because the goal for both parties is entertainment. If the creative mind or minds behind that story feel that something's gone on for too long and is starting to bore the audience (especially when the audience clearly indicates this), why not change?

That's exactly what I'm getting at, and also what Greg's argument was. I remember the mysterious and eerie feeling from 2001 as well and I would completely agree with you that that feeling is nowhere near as strong with the current story. One one hand, you could also argue that the reason we find the mysterious setting so attractive is because of the idea that eventually we'll get the fulfilment of finding things out. It's the same as saying we want to see expansion and growth but then complain about what we lose as a result. I can at least speak for myself when I say that I longed for the day when we would find out who exactly Makuta was. And when that first instance at the end of 2001 came, I thought that after all the talk of him being in the shadows and being so mysterious, coming out in the form of a Matoran and the whole void scene was absolutely brilliant. It was like they still managed to keep him shrouded in mystery whilst revealing him in a physical form. The 2003 Makuta was the Makuta drawn out in the flesh (so to speak) which was exactly what I wanted in 2001. Now that I've got that, his mysterious side is lost. However, I can also agree with those who complain about the loss of the mystery aspect in citing that some of the elements that made 2001 so interesting just haven't been used since then. Again with Makuta, it's not so much that the main villain has now been exposed as we wanted, but that the idea of a mysterious villain who we never get to see just hasn't been used since then. I think the Morbuzahk plant was the closest thing we've had since Makuta. I too would quite like to see a MNOG styled game where we've been thrust into a world we don't know, and Bara Magna would have been the perfect opportunity for that. Personally, whilst I still harbour that nostalgic fanboy, I've never felt annoyed enough to complain about the tone we have now because what Bionicle has maintained throughout the years is a thoroughly interesting and inspiring universe which almost never fails to draw me in. I didn't find Metru Nui as mysterious as Mata Nui but I found it immensely interesting none the less. The argument about wanting something you can't have has been used countless times with Bionicle and is hardly exclusive to it. Someone mentioned Harry Potter a while back. With Harry Potter, you have the same basic situation where we enter a new world which is unknown and mysterious at first, but inevitably gets expanded (or our knowledge of it does) as we go along. Try not to get too bothered by this. We get nostalgic about things and that's perfectly okay. If it's just human nature, it's often better to look at it from an indifferent perspective rather than complain. Just let the fans be that way and tell them, “look, guys. This is something that has to happen otherwise we get bored and the franchise dies.”

Expansion of the universe is pretty inevitable with any franchise. The way I heard it, people were complaining about having stayed on Mata Nui too long by 2003. And yeah, MNOG was incredibly engaging but 2001 had a pretty basic plot compared to what we have now (that's regardless of whether the current storyline is considered good or not). The compliments people are making about the original Bionicle story seem to be more about the Universe and set up rather than the actual storyline itself.

Kinda feeling like I would have received that more warmly than "Threshold" and "Universal." Maybe it's the effort put into the joke, rather than just slapping names on there.

I've never noticed it, but I guess 'yes', by principle. Personally I'd be much more annoyed to see it written in a movie than in a flash game. It just seems weird that they're staring in awe at all this ancient scrawling (since this is supposed to be a serious scene) and all I can read are the names of the companies that made the film. Also I find MNOG as much of a relic as the next nostalgic fan but I know they did get some things wrong. Like Ussal taxis.

Oh dear god no. If we start talking about Star Wars we'll never get back on topic which kind of defeats the purpose of this thread . Just to clarify, I heard the claim made that characters were "drastically altered" after Greg took over as story head. I'm interested to know who which characters in particular we're talking about here. I can't think of anything worse than what the first 3 movies did to Lewa or Sidorak (or why the previous head of the story team didn't say no to Lewa's treespeak)

The other 3 movies are a lot more fun for that. Personally I felt pretty annoyed at seeing the words Threshold and Universal all over the Great Beings' lab. Annoyed enough that that same manoeuvre was considered for the inside of the Avohkii in MoL.

Wholeheartedly agreed. Although I do still quite like Bara Magna anyway. What they may end up doing is a MU story for the first half of the year, and use the movie for the second half. Like with MoL and LoMN.

Creating an interesting character isn't as black and white as giving them a personality. The fact that the Vahki used their ultrasonic language and had that solid robotic expression meant you could never really tell what they were thinking. They were this detached, alien and unpredictable force. And they seemed completely without sympathy which made them even more fearsome. You knew that if you stepped out of line they would suddenly snap and they wouldn't stop until they had you. That was enough to invoke a pretty decent sense of fear (although the movie kinda played this down for obvious reasons). I'll do some BS01 quote ripping: "Vahki don't knock. They smash doors down. And they keep smashing them down until they find the one you're hiding behind." Here they're expressed as unreasonable and frightfully unyielding. The whole idea was that you couldn't relate to, and therefore feared them and I don't think giving them personalities would have aided this as much. There are several routes to engaging an audience with their character other than giving them human-like personalities. You give the character no form of speech, for example, and they become completely enigmatic (that's probably on TVtropes now that I think about it ). Also I thought the plan to go into flashback was conceived pretty much at the beginning with Bob Thompson. Sorry for not ending this. I just haven't been on in a while. I'm getting excited about this info as well.

Not quite sure what you mean. Like limitations on powers other than elemental? I was thinking more like the storyline for each year as a whole. Like the idea in 2006 with the desperate villagers getting screwed over by a Skakdi gang. It was just interesting to see how the Piraka took advantage of their disguise. You wanted to know what they would do to the villagers and whether they would get the Ignika, who would rebel and when, and when would the implied arriving group of heroes come and set everything right. As far as violence goes, I would agree with you that kids could probably cope with a lot more than they're exposed to. Though I wouldn't argue the violence level in Bionicle should actually be increased (but at the same time, I'm never one to complain when it is ) Lego gets a fair bit of criticism for Bionicle's violence, but the truth is there's pretty much no stopping boys from getting into that sort of thing anyway. I've seen a fair few stop motion videos made by the younger fans where Toa get their heads cut off, some with play-doh blood if I remember. These were being made long before things like beheading and dismemberment started getting referenced in the story.

Not necessarily. Stories written for 8 year olds can still be interesting without being complicated (silent rebuttal to an argument about TLR's story). Plus, we get a fair ammount of violent content from the story serials and, formerly, the books. I personally find Greg can still write a good plot twist like when

They weren't really supposed to though. They were meant to be this cold, ruthless and alien-like being that you couldn't decipher and really had to watch yourself around.

Greg didn't like the Vahki? I thought they were some of the coolest villains we've had. Despite being part of the clone set period... I'm kinda dissappointed there isn't anything from the Metru Nui arc actually, even if the sets back then weren't all that great overall. But the good thing about Stars for the first half of the year is that there won't be as big a cluster of characters for the next movie to work with.

Or just cause Binkmeister seems far too relaxed and happy about it . But yeah. Line's selling too well. Too much talk about 2011 planning and so on.