SBCMayor

Another older thread I'm reviving! In my Thoughts on the Second Wave thread I actually ranked the Skull's Eye Schooner 4th among the "big 4" sets in the second wave, being the Renegade Runner, Imperial Trading Post, and the Imperial Flagship. So naturally I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone that in a head to head against the Black Seas Barracuda my vote is for the BSB. I just think there is no topping those 1989 originals. When the SES came out I was definitely interested in it, but buy 1993 I was a little older (4 years older than in 1989 to be specific) and I wasn't quite as awestruck by it as I was by the BSB years before. Perhaps my vote is a product of those early impressions. Fast forward to this year when I decided to start collecting vintage pirate sets. I researched both carefully but quickly decided I'd be sticking with the BSB both for sentimental and practical reasons. With SES prices on secondary markets such as Ebay and Bricklink far exceeding the prices for a BSB, I've been able to actually get 2 BSBs for only slightly more than what it would have cost me to get 1 SES. The second BSB I've converted into an Imperial Ship. Perhaps in a few months I'll look again and add a SES to my collection, though I don't consider it a must have like the BSB. It's a nice sequel: what it lacks in original thought it makes up for in being bigger and more menacing. But it'll never be better than the original.

I think one of the things I didn't care for about it was the awkward dimensions of the plate it came on. It makes it hard to integrate with other sets. I think the solid green color was something else I didn't really care for. It seemed too basic and not "Pirate Theme" enough for me. I would have rather it been on a yellow sand colored plate than the one-sided green plate. It could have been a larger, Imperial complement to Smuggler's Shanty that way. I liked the little prickly bush accessory, (Cannon Cove was my introduction to this piece) but felt it should have had a palm tree. Regarding the difference between Eldorado and Imperial Trading Post, I do agree the addition of a second blue plate complete with docks and buildings really made ITP an ambitious set. I recently won Eldorado in an Ebay auction and shortly thereafter purchased ITP outright. Both have a little wear and tear but for their ages have a lot of life left in them, especially for what I paid! The docks on ITP have actually inspired me to experiment with something similar for Eldorado, especially given it already has a small dock along the front of the structure. I love the idea of using Sabre Island as a structure on the dock side of the extension, simply pulling it off the printed plate and setting in on a wider, corner portion of the dock. I think it would look awesome. And of course, integrating them together is always an option, though I always view the Imperial Guards and Soldiers as rivals not allies.

Thank you for sharing! I as able to find a set of replacement sails but they turned out to be one-sided, so maybe eventually I'll upgrade. Also, one change to the ship pictured above is it still has the original red shutters down in the hold. I've ordered some blue shutters but they haven't arrived yet.

I went ahead and did this. I was able to get a second BSB relatively inexpensive and converted it over to an Imperial ship. This brings my Imperial blue fleet to 1 BSB and 2 CCs. They’re still outgunned by my pirate fleet so they’d be smart to form and alliance with the Imperial Guards, but I don’t see either blue or red willing to do that. Politics is complicated, I guess. Also, in order to have donor parts for this ship I actually ordered a third CC received all the BSB components I could transfer over. I have to brick link a few additional pieces (replacing all the blue on the CC with red) and I’ll share a pic of the “Cutthroat Clipper” once she’s ready!

I found my plain sails! I also found a donor ship for the conversion. It couldn't have been better, appears to be in very good shape, but missing sails, minifigures, features a couple replacement pieces (black lanterns instead of blue). Consequently this was inexpensive comparatively. I'll get some pirate flags and a crew and this ship will be well on its way to pillaging and plundering!

Love this review. Even though these are toys designed primarily for their potential to generate sales based on their play potential, I love the actual knowledge of sail configurations applied to these models. I also really love the tan sails for the IF. One thing I wish I could find, and I might be able to eventually, is plain tan sails. I'd love to convert an IF to a pirate vessel but the imperial insignia on the sails sort of ruins that potential. I think the IF would make a great pirate ship conversion and if I ever find a place to order plain tan replacement sails I'm ordering them and getting back on Ebay/Bricklink to start looking for my conversion set! Thanks again, this was a great review and a lot of fun to read!

That was very thoughtful of you, thank you. I also checked out the group on Flickr. There are some awesome works of art there! I am not anywhere near that level, I'm just combining what's available. I love seeing the MOCs on this site and others. Some of the creativity is mind blowing!

Thank you, and something like this is the other option I was going to explore. I definitely appreciate the lead!

It also turns out my size limit for photos is very small. I'd have to really reformat some of the pics (I'll play around with that at some point) or reduce their size to the point they wouldn't be worth sharing. I'm guessing with a little more time in the forum media capacity increases? I'm not a great photographer but I do have a few pics of the early stages of my set up design I'd like to share.

I like a lot of the Creator series sets. They have several beach cabins and surf shops and since I am into that sort of thing I really enjoy these sets. I live in a coast city in the U.S. and my sons and I have built a nice town modeled after our home, including a "surf district" comprised mostly of creator sets and a tiki bar we built ourselves. The Creator Pirate ship is awesome. Of all the 3 in 1 sets we have, this one is the one we want to get 3 of the most so we can build all 3 builds! I also really think the Viking ship looks awesome, but my interest in pirates far surpasses my interest in Vikings.

I agree with you on the "junior-ized" sentiments. When I started my research I did look at some of the sets from the mid-90s and feel they just don't hit the mark the way the first and second waves do. In fact, after the second wave, I really don't think any of the sets in the pirate series are must-haves, with some noteworthy exceptions: Imperial Flagship (this one, not the one from 1992). Pirates of Barracuda Bay Creator 3&1 Pirate Ship (more a pirate flavored creator set, but it's a really good ship nonetheless). Icons Eldorado Fortress (as cool as this is, I am glad I went with the original).

They do fit better with the second wave because the presence of Imperial Guards is consistent with that wave. But they're outliers, they're still not truly second wave sets. My younger brother had a few of the Islander sets but by the time the Imperial Armada series arrived I had (for the time) outgrown collecting Legos. I've put a lot of research into what to focus on and I've decided to focus on the sets from 1989-1993.

I really enjoyed ranking the sets in the first wave and really appreciated the responses and ensuing discussion. In that discussion I mentioned I'd eventually share some thoughts on the second wave, which I consider 1992-1993. The shift from the Imperial Soldiers to Imperial Guards marks the beginning of the second wave. And while I realize the Imperial Guards were still making appearances after 1993, by 1994 the Islanders had more or less replaced them. And while the Islanders were a pretty cool theme in their own right, I never really got into them or really any of the pirate sets after 1993. I am not going to try to rank the entire second wave the way I did the first wave, though I definitely will rank the biggest sets at the end. Instead I want to share a few thoughts on what I love about the second wave. First and most obviously: the switch from blue to red. This is such an awesome concept and as a kid I loved that Lego did it. I love it as an adult now. I loved the potential that a peer force to the Imperial Guards was in play now. The 1992 series was basically the Imperial Flagship and Imperial Trading Post with a few smaller complementary sets. On the pirate side Lego was still coasting from the Black Seas Barracuda, Forbidden Island, and Rock Island Refuge so they really didn't need anything big on that side. But the dynamic the introduction of the Imperial Guards made...epic! By 1992 I had a few soldier sets, most notably Lagoon Lockup and Sabre Island, with a few others to shore up my small imperial force. But when the 1992 lineup came out I immediately bought the Bounty Boat and Smuggler's Shanty as well as hit up my parents for the Imperial Flagship for Christmas. When I actually got it, I had a nice little force of both Soldiers and Guards, and a nice band of pirates (without a ship). I really liked the Imperial Trading Post too, and had a cousin who had both that and the Imperial Flagship. So that didn't create any envy or anything. But the second wave wasn't done yet. 1993 brought some amazing additions. Still trying to build my Imperial Guard force, I bought Cannon Cove, even though I didn't really care for the design and still don't. What I should have done was hold onto my mowing money until I could get the Renegade Runner, Lego's first "small" pirate ship. I loved that they issued a smaller ship instead of a hideout. Seems pirates would have plenty of each but so far our lego pirates had two major hideouts and a couple smaller ones, but only one ship. I loved the thought of multiple pirate ships, either sailing together or as rival gangs. And of course, since I had an Imperial Flagship, I needed a pirate ship to hunt down, not a lame outpost like Cannon Cove. Definitely should have held onto my money for the bigger better, more complementary set. Thankfully my parents sort of helped me make up for my mistake by getting the Renegade Runner for my little brother. And of course, who can forget the big gun in 1993, the Skull's Eye Schooner. At the time I was like, "whoa, a bigger, scarier Black Seas Barracuda!" If that is what they were going for it definitely worked. A few months ago when I decided to try to collect some of these vintage sets I did acknowledge I probably wouldn't buy both ships. My sentiment was biased toward the BSB because of the imagination it inspired. But I gave the SES a long look as well because I remember the intimidation factor that ship presented. But as an adult, watching many a video review of both ships, and considering the cost on sites like Ebay and Bricklink, this was an easy choice. And so, where would I rank the top 4 sets from the second wave? Fourth Place: Skull's Eye Schooner. I know this set was supposed to be the big one from this wave, but I can't put it above the other 3 big offerings. While it is definitely a cool ship in its own right, I just don't see it as an improvement over the BSB. If the 1989 and 1991 sets never existed, this would be ranked higher. But even if I'm trying to consider this second wave completely within itself, it's hard to remove that bias. This ship doesn't anchor the wave the way the BSB does for the first wave. Third Place: Renegade Runner. Ironically enough, the smallest ship in the series does a lot its larger counterpart can't do. First and foremost: accessibility! In 1993 this little beauty would set you back just $40 USD, less than 1/3 of the cost of a SES. $40 and you are on your way to pillaging and plundering then making a fast escape in your small, fast ship. Obviously the design left some room for improvement. I don't like the swivel gun and the ship is missing its wheel (which makes sense from a playable perspective). It could benefit from some rigging pieces too. Secondly, the RR fills a niche role in the series. It's not a fort, it's a ship. But a small one. I love that instead of another pirate hideout Lego gave us another ship. I now have two of these and they make for fine escorts to Captain Redbeard's flagship, the Black Seas Barracuda. Second Place: Imperial Trading Post. I remember this set being just epic when I was a kid. I love that they didn't just do another El Dorado Fortress for the big set, but went trading post instead. I love the merchant figures and the small merchant ship. And while I have a strong bias for ships over forts, the difference between this set and the Renegade Runner is just immense. I've not yet purchased this in my shopping spree and it's not a definite that I will. This set holds its value on secondary markets, so finding one that is nice, playable, but not quite collector grade can be a bit tricky. But if I happen to find one, it'll be hard for me to resist. First Place: Imperial Flagship. I just love this ship. It was my first ship in this series when I was a kid, and it'll always be a very special set for that reason. My parents were not well off by any stretch, and this beauty cost around $50 in 1992 so I felt very fortunate to get it. I feel even more fortunate to have gotten a very clean copy today for under $180! It is in immaculate shape and just like it did when it entered my little corner of the Lego Carribean in 1992, will very likely cause some havoc to both the Soldiers and Pirates alike today too. As for the smaller sets, I had several though none of them were as awe inspiring to me as the first wave. And while I liked the change in design emphasis from Eldorado to ITP I really do not care for any of the smaller imperial sets. I mentioned I "settled" for Cannon Cove as a kid, but I am not making that mistake again. I've purchased an extra Sabre Island and swapped out the Soldiers for Imperial Guards. I am doing the same thing to Lagoon Lockup. I may not ever get that ITP but I've got to give their ground forces something! And while this is just my opinion, I think it reflects, at least for me, how much better the first wave is than the second. So let me know your thoughts. Do you agree, or are you all ready to make me walk the plank?

I'm bumping this old thread after 11 years. I wanted the Caribbean Clipper so badly when it came out in 1989. I wasn't fortunate enough to get it, but I did get the Imperial Flagship in 1992. My fondness for the pirate series and both Imperial Soldiers and Imperial Guards never fully dissipated, and as an adult I've recently purchased two copies of Carribean Clipper and one Imperial Flagship. After waiting for 35 years the Carribean Clipper has been worth it. The Imperial Flagship will also always have a special place in my heart as my first, and until recently, only Lego pirate series ship. I don't think a fan of the Pirate line can go wrong with either ship. I recall studying the catalogues, boxes, and pictures carefully as a kid and the first thing I noticed about the Imperial Flagship was it has a slimmed down hull. Even as a kid with virtually no knowledge of ship design I figured this to be a smaller, lighter, faster, and more maneuverable ship than the CC. I wasn't really worried about the "too short for its width" critique of the CC and having now assembled 2 of them as an adult I'm still not. As far as lego models go, I consider the CC a great representation of an entry-level gun ship. Not a sloop but definitely not a ship of the line! So I'll share some thoughts on some specific features: Overall design: Carribean Clipper. Again, I don't think a fan of lego tall ships can go wrong with either. I immediately loved the overall look of the IF when I first assembled it, but it will not ever be able to top its 1989 counterpart. There is just something about those first-wave ships that did it for me, and while the IF has some amazing overall design triumphs, I just think the CC is better. Rigging: Imperial Flagship. Even as a kid in 1989 with limited (non-existent) knowledge of ship design, the rigging piece on the CC bothered me. As an adult I get it: piece count. It's not just that they saved 1 rigging piece, it's they had to save on the entire front end assembly to make the rigging piece align to the proper mast height. By 1992 they had introduced a shorter rigging piece for the IF, resulting in that detail favoring the IF over the CC. Cabin space: Carribean Clipper. And by a lot. Granted neither of these ships are going to wow even the lowest ranking officer with their accommodations, but the CC at least has the space and potential to modify and customize a suitable cabin area. While the IF features the functioning rudder, as a kid I would have rather had a more realistic cabin toward the stern than a "real" rudder. That was a play feature I never used anyway, so for me it's not a win. (I do appreciate the addition of the window on the command deck of the IF, giving the appearance of a cabin if you are viewing from behind. At least they did that.) Width: Carribean Clipper. I've read here and on multiple other comparison threads for these two ships that the CC is too short for how wide it is. I disagree. I love the ability to put 2 more guns in each of my models, making them both far more formidable mid-weights. The IF will never have that option. Even if I never add to the CC's firepower, I love having the option to do so. Crew: Carribean Clipper. As a kid, I actually didn't like that they made the CC crew wear the tricorn hats and no backpacks. I LOVED the way the standard enlisted soldiers looked and felt like you couldn't get enough of them. But as an adult I like this feature a lot more about it and wish the IF had followed this as well. Ground forces look different from sailors so the guys you'd see working the ship wouldn't look the same as those you'd see on ground or even as a boarding party or expeditionary force embarked on the vessel. Also, reading others comments, I see the one figure isn't a pirate but a deckhand. I always treated him like a pirate with my set. Originality: Carribean Clipper. This ship did a better job as a smaller, less expensive "good guys" option opposite its pirate counterpart, the Black Seas Barracuda than the IF does with its contemporaries the Skull's Eye Schooner and Renegade Runner, both of which came out in 1993. The original wave of Lego Pirates just changed so much. The IF definitely makes some design improvements on the CC, but the CC literally helped invent the genre. And that brings me to my overall opinion: Overall winner: Carribean Clipper. For me it's an obvious choice. I love both. I'd rather have either than pretty much anything else from any other series, TBH. I like the pirate series that much. But if I must pick one over the other, there is simply no competing with those initial 1989 releases. So I voted accordingly.

Correct, US dollars. My son and I built them both Friday night. We combined Eldorado with Lagoon Lockup and two Sabre Islands to make one larger fort. We combined Forbidden Island with Shipwreck island and another large island printed baseplate to make an extended pirate hideout. I'm working on putting together one extended set up and I have a few more sets coming. At this point I've exceeded the budget (not by too much but still have a budget...) I had for this little hobby so I'll be pausing any more purchases for a while after this wave of sets and accessories arrives. I'll get a few pics up in a couple days and you'll be able to see where I'm taking things.