Pandora

And yet, maybe no, as Deanna... well, see for yourself. The argument that drives me insane. Akin to "it's not what you meant, it's how you made me feel". I'd be impressed if you can hear my tone of voice across the internet room. This is very silly. You want to lynch me, then send me that $1000 right now. Please.

Yeah, it was funny at the time. I don't want it back! That would add insult to injury. If we're both Town you can keep it, but if you're scum I'll take the $1000 thanks. I just don't see it being Riker, and I agree that if it is then he deserves the win. To come in and not vote me out when he unquestioningly could have (and I know you could argue it keeps people looking at me, but I don't agree) would be, in my opinion, a genius scum move. The rest of his play has seemed to be a solid town game too. By a process of elimination that makes me think it must be Picard. Vote: Picard (Lind Whisperer) You've been watching us duke it out and when I repeat a point I've already made you're pinged? Not conclusive by any means, but weak. Are we done yet?

I've thrown stuff at you before in this game, but I am happy to admit my case against you is by no means water tight. My back's been against the fucking wall for the whole of this fucking game. I have to work out which one of you is scum while you're trying to get me lynched. Again. The most frustrating thing about this is that you now, finally, sound like me. I read your post and it feels just like the way I have felt throughout the whole of this. Yeah, I was like that on Day One and it's brought me no end of grief. Fair enough, and me either. I fucking hate this. I know I go into the little itty-bitty small things, but that is how I always play. That's really nice, but what kind of game am I playing if I'm Town, which I actually am? I'm not going point to point, I'm just trying to make this easier to read. And this is pretty much what I've said before about myself. And you were all weird about it when I said it. I'm not saying you're scum for saying this, I'm actually hoping that right now you might actually see where I've been coming from. I mean it'd be nice to pretend that that was my intention, but it wasn't, and you might not see it anyway. I'm not willing to bet against you, but would you take the same bet on me? $1000 if I'm Town? $10? A LEGO ice tray?? Unvote: Deanna (Hinckley) I just want to scream.

So, going back to the beginning of this line of discussion, the reason you couldn't have been bussing Beverly Day One was because you were drunk and immediately voted for her when you saw her outrageously scummy post, before bothering to read the rest of the thread. And the thing you found so outrageously scummy was: Except she claimed "deliberate bad logic" as the reason for voting for Picard in the first place, not for the switch. I KNOW she was actually scum before you remind me of that, but I just don't see what was so blatantly scummy that made you drop everything and vote immediately. No questions, no clarification, no discussion. Nothing. And then WHAM - she actually is scum, well how about that! But you said you were expecting it. Yikes, I didn't say posting memes was scummy, I just said your meme-game was scummy when you asked how it was. That's not all I said though. You have flipped and flopped over lynching me all game, and you even post good reasons why I'm Town, and then say Riker is in the perfect position and ooooh beware of Riker, but you'll vote only for me because of some dumb promise you made yourself at the beginning of the day. To add to the metagaming I will say again that at the point I was about to be lynched Picard was replaced. I had the majority vote and there was under 23 hours left in the day. Why replace someone when the last scum is about to be lynched? I think that actually looks kinda nice. Have you forgotten what waffle means? I will repeat: there is a big difference between losing Town Data and losing Town Forg. Voting for Forg to avoid a night kill when you think Forg is Town and will be the one night killed is silly and scummy. You say I said a night kill isn't that big of a deal (I don't think I did) but you just said: Make your mind up. And I know you just said about how we can see you questioning Forg, but right before the day deadline you said: and this was after starting to make a considerable case against Riker, and with plenty of time to change your vote. Why would it have automatically been you who was night-killed? A night when you are apparently certain to be killed is also an ok night for a night kill? You don't need to be pro-night kill though! As long as someone other than you is being lynched, it's still a Townie dying and you get closer to the end, and this is exactly my point with Forg. You voted for him to be lynched, then posted a lachrymose statement like the one above, after making a substantial case for Riker, and it was so important to you to look town and show yourself to be dead set against a night kill that you would lynch someone you suddenly thought was Town again. It only makes sense if you're utterly crazy or scum.

Hi there, welcome to Eurobricks. I checked with our Admins and the system doesn't change or edit your username when you submit it, so nothing would have shaved it off, and if the name you submitted were taken you would have been notified indeed. I have changed your name to 'sock2ii' which you indicated you wanted to sign up as. Let me know if you would rather I change it back.

Even if you don't relish the idea, and I'm not sure that's not the case, you were still, as I actually said, gearing up for a fight: I've only asked you once and it's not that hard. I read the thread like everyone else. I read everything that's been posted and then I reply. Most people do that, that's why and how they respond to multiple people, using multiquote. Something you do all the time, aside from, apparently, this one occasion for no clear reason. You would have seen there was another post, a few other posts in fact, and who knows they might have said something to change your mind or draw your attention to something even scummier. Most people, Town at least, don't just throw their vote around spontaneously and immediately on a post they've just seen without at least reading the rest of the thread. I'm not still defending it as a joke, I was pointing out that you, yourself had referred to it as a joke: Emphasis mine, of course. ..... really? @Hinckley Deanna, can you pinpoint what it was about Beverley's post that made you drop everything and vote for her before reading the rest of the thread please?

That has never stopped you from hypothesising crazy stuff before. You have never been sure of this, even when you've been hosting yourself! I do not have any intention of insulting you (or anyone else for that matter). You have previously said you think that I think your ego is your greatest weakness, and I do believe it is true that part of what you enjoy about this game is demonstrating your ability to be incredibly Townie when scum and get away with it. I'll say again, you have looked as if you're gearing up for a fight and almost relishing the idea. The scummy post that was a joke? The scummy post that I said was a joke? And it's not like all that happened really quickly (and certainly not immediately), there were a few hours between the posts: I didn't say anything about shoes brewing anywhere, but in reference to what I did say about waiting for the other shoe to drop, I meant that you were looking nervous like you were just waiting for everyone to start accusing you, like you and your guilty conscience expected it. No, I don't want the scum to choose who dies, which is a more accurate way of putting it. If you don't think someone is scummy, you don't vote for them. Especially not when you have already said your worst case scenario is the scum actually killing the person you're voting for. You cannot blame other people for your vote, you know as well as everyone else it is your only weapon in the fight against evil or whatever. You voted for Forg to die when you clearly and admittedly did not think he was scum to avoid.... Forg dying? I feel like I've just asked you where the new stain on the carpet has come from. "Well, you see, I was talking to..... and then I was... and then just as I... " You keep saying I bestowed sainthood on Data, like I even have that power. I'm sorry to say for Data, and Data I mean you no offence with this, but there is a big difference between losing Town Data and losing Town Forg. Data potentially sacrificed himself for Forg. You sacrificed Forg for nothing when you didn't even think he was scum. And you don't really care if I get voted out today or not. If we don't vote anyone out then you can kill who you like and start all over again tomorrow. You know the vote against me hasn't really gained any traction, so setting up the cases for Riker and Picard give you options. Actually, that's pretty normal for me, and you know that. And I don't dispute that I might well be crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I have looked. I've looked several times and said so. I'm not finding anything scummy there. The most diabolical move of the game would be to bus your scum teammate early on Day One, I don't think there's much all that diabolical in having a reasonable suspicion of Picard. And why would Riker only want to keep one of us? I have considered the gambit, but the gambit didn't pay off for Data remember as he was actually lynched. It's not the fact that he wants to lynch himself that makes him look town anyway. You whinged at me for saying stuff like this, and for other people voting for themself, and then you say this! Shall I start looking for a violin? It's only me voting for you! And who is Cybill? I don't get the reference. She knows most people's triggers, I think it's fair to say. I'd be interested to hear what you think. I agree about the split vote to an extent, but I'm not going to vote for someone if I don't believe they are scum. I will keep re-reading too. I don't remember you doing that either. I could go and look, but this is a long post, sorry. You've flip-flopped over me many times. And you've just waffled about waffling! An enjoyable thesis depicting how one form of waffling is superior to another! It is indeed a game, and I am also playing and posting in my style, just like you. But not as scummy. I've not taken anything to heart, and I hope that you haven't either. Something we can agree on! Hurrah!

If I said "Having been faced with a terrifying revelation that I'm probably here until the bitter end," you would normally pick up my sarcastic tone, but you'd rather accuse me of melodrama. Things have certainly gone in a weird direction with a few of the posts later today. I asked about your thoughts on Riker, thanks for requoting a lot of your unedited guff. Essentially you think Riker is scummy for not hammering the vote on Bev and being too generous in his assessment of her. You think he's flying under the radar (or busy)... and then the last quote is just rambling waffle. So not much of a case against Riker, but hedging your bets in case you need to make a case later. Hmmm. Yes, that's curious. It's almost like the rest of us are Town. Do you feel like you're on the home straight? This is like oinking, but not. I do not like this. The odd thing that struck me after-the-fact was that the super-duper paranoid, crazy theory conspiracist that is Deanna Troi dismissed all this completely out of hand, despite the fact that in any other given game under similar circumstances she'd be the one proposing stuff like this herself. There was no "that's interesting, I wonder" it was just completely "absolutely NO, you are insane and have lost your mind, of course Beverly knew she was scum". Which is the kind of opinion you would tend towards if you were actually scum. If you already knew Beverly knew she was scum, because you found out when Beverly found out and you knew exactly what the setup was. This was in response to me asking what made you say that Troi was creating confusion, and I see your point. It hasn't disrupted it completely because Deanna's see-sawed back into it. It do be like that. I'm sure Riker would agree here too. I think we're into the territory of straight out taunting now. Vote: Deanna the Spanner Troi You challenged Forg when he said he thought you should be voted out if I were Town (which, because I haven't said it for a while, I am) and you challenged me this morning with "bring it on" expecting a fight from me. When you posted the quote from Bob about the "silver tongued challenge" or whatever - that had been on your mind, clearly. You can taste it, can't you? You've been itching for a proper fight because you want to show how good you are and we've been disappointing you. It's almost like you think it's too easy and you want to drop a little bait. I don't know how much fight I have left in me and I don't know how much Riker or Picard are going to listen to me, because you've done a good job of wearing me down, but let's see how far we get. Scummy as fuck, as it happens. But first, this: I've added the emphasis because I really want to say thank you. I appreciate this, but I also respectfully disagree. I don't want you to feel like you've put effort in for me to just disagree out of hand. I can understand your points and how you reached your conclusions, but interestingly some of the things you have against Picard are also true for Troi, particularly the double posting and posts without substance. There's a considerable amount of waffle in Deanna's posts, much more than usual, and there's been much talk of her 'walls of text'. The more recent posts from Deanna have been like Data on a bad and scummy day. I remain unconvinced that Picard is scum, and I remain unconvinced that you are scum, and I am becoming increasingly convinced that Troi is scum. Troi has played well, which is to be expected, she's a good player, some might even say legendary. There aren't going to be any concrete cases because this is all based on our actions, timing and opinions. On Day One, Forg votes first for Bev which is followed by Troi voting also for Bev, however couched with a "whoever you are" and without a good explanation - just "I agree with Forg". I've already mooted the idea that it wouldn't be unusual for a scum to be bussed day one, I thought Forg had done it but clearly not and it's not unreasonable to think Troi might do so once Forg had his sights set on Bev. I can attest first hand to the tenacious attitude of Mr Worf. A larger than usual proportion of Troi's posts have been really waffly, like ridiculously so, and there's been a fair amount of double posting and "what are you all waiting for" and "what's going on" which rather sounds like a worried lone scummo wondering if the shoe is about to drop. Looking at Day Four when we voted out Forg - what strikes me is the end of the day. Troi hammered the vote for Forg, and said she was 'floored' we were lynching him and then posted a bunch of suspicions about Riker. Troi didn't need to hammer Forg at all - what was the worst that could happen? That there was a scum kill that night and Forg would be killed (she'd already said it was clear Forg would have been their target)? It didn't matter either way, but wiping away a tear and starting to setting up some more suspicions is pretty damn scummy. If you believe someone's town you don't vote for them. Three out of four of us here have already demonstrated this a few times.

I don't have much time right now, so I just want to quickly Vote: Extend the Day. I'll be back later with more to say.

Well, I had to ask. You can park your sanctimonious attitude, Deanna. We're on Day FIVE and I have been defending myself from being lynched since the end of Day One, and these have all been extended days with little-to-no night phase, so I am pretty exhausted. Crazy shit happens sometimes, and I explored that, that's all. I also mooted the idea that it would just be that whoever got lynched Day One became scum one, it's an interesting idea, and not completely out of character for some of the things that have been tried here before, so you don't need to scoff at it, thank you. I didn't say it made him the Towniest of Town; I don't think anyone deserves that title. Having been faced with a terrifying revelation that I'm probably here until the bitter end, I may as well return to maximum effort. Riker doesn't seem to want to vote me out, and neither it would seem would Picard. Keeping me here continues to distract Troi, and if we lynch wrongly today then the scum have a better chance of standing up against me tomorrow, especially with Troi wanting my blood. That said, it appears that Riker's motives are more because he believes Picard to be scum; Picard hasn't made a similar case about anyone else today, because he hasn't actually said anything else today, despite, as Riker has pointed out (and I've checked) being around relatively recently. I looked back at the events surrounding Data's suicide. I said afterwards that I didn't think Picard would do that if he were scum because with a no lynch he could choose who to kill, but then the converse is also true, in retrospect. If Picard is scum he'd have known Data was town and another dead townie is another dead townie. It's weird to read it again but so is this. Picard went from : To: At the time I was just plain relieved that I wasn't going to be lynched after all, but this is a massive change in opinion. I chalked it up to Picard's new personality just having a different take on things, but it could just as easily have been a change of strategy: to keep me around to torment Town. I went and looked through a few things, like that thought experiment on who we would have killed. I can kinda see why one might do that in the first place, maybe, but it remains an odd thing to do. And it gives a weird idea about the interactions. Like he said he thought I wouldn't have killed Troi because she creates confusion, but I don't see how Troi creates confusion - @Lind Whisperer Picard could you please expand on that? And saying everyone would have killed him (except me) is also... odd. Hmmm. I started going through things thinking that I would probably see why Picard is so scummy, but I actually don't. I don't see him saying he'd vote for himself as all that scummy - a scum doing that would be a terrible idea - what if they actually ended up lynched like Data did? It would be incredibly risky play. So then I start down the road that it must be Riker, then, right? Except, no, I don't think so from re-reading his posts. It is possible that Beverly wanted to vote him out Day One because she thought he wouldn't show and Bev could look like a good little Townie, but I think most of his posts have been on the level. It is more likely that Bev was picking an easy target. So then it must be Troi, except Troi has been trying very hard to lynch me which... hang on a minute! Actually, that doesn't necessarily make her scum, and it has been consistent-ish. It's the easiest 'case' to make as it's all already been made. Maybe there's a sense of pride that she wants to get me lynched exactly because I've managed to avoid it for so long? I dunno. She highlighted the "silver-tongued" bit when pointing out my mind-meltdown earlier. Maybe not. She would, however, be able to handle a final day with Riker and Picard both suspecting each other and it is most certainly within the scope of her expertise to fake being mentally unhinged by the occurrences of the game and it is undeniable that she has been part of my continued presence here. Thing is, though, like the other two she appears to be on the level. Damned good player, though. And I checked again, it's still not me. This is how I end up considering crazy stuff. I need to think some more. @Darkdragon Commander Riker, I know this is a tedious request, but could you lay out a few bullet points for why you think Picard's scum please? It may be that I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. @Hinckley Troi, do you have any thoughts about Riker? Just pretend for a moment you and I are both Town - who do you think it is? I'm going to be busy for a while, but I should be around towards the end of the day. Not great timing, but we have company.

Yeah, alright, I was just throwing an idea out there. I didn't say unvote me or anything like that, I was just losing my mind. Still am, I think. I don't shout at you when you lose your mind, so you don't have to shout at me. I'm not trying to manipulate or get people to unvote or anything, I'm just trying to make sense of things. If I had just been taken by the Rapture to discover everybody having a lovely time in Ten Forward (the bar, before you ask) then I would have been very happy. That hasn't happened, clearly, but it would have been quite pleasant nonetheless. Yeah, you mentioned. Day Six is gonna suck balls for you if you're Town. I always look like the Scummiest, it is what it is. I'm bummed out that Forg was actually town after all that, and I think you might be a Game Day behind me in that respect. Maybe. Depends if you're Town or not. Sometimes paranoid stretching actually pays off. Sometimes, it is also actually correct. It certainly doesn't hurt to kick ideas around.

What in the unholy bollocks? Worf, I shall send you a muffin arrangement in the shape of a Bat'leth. That's fine. I was trying to nope out of here yesterday. I don't wanna be involved in the meltdown of Day Six. Actually, no, but more on that later. Well, actually it is, but you'll see that tomorrow. That's fine. I said it was fine yesterday, it's still fine today. OK, so where my head is at the moment is.... I don't even know. I was asked yesterday what I would think if Forg came up town, and I said I'd look back at what everyone had said and make a case. Mulling it over, I actually can't pick one out of the three of you. Normally I'd have a logical next step, but I just don't have one here. You all seem pretty Town really (and Deanna's said something similar) so the bizarre thing is that Occam's Razor would suggest that the answer is that you're all actually Town. So running with that thought (bearing in mind I'm not scum, and I honestly have had to check that I'm not scum!) maybe Beverly wasn't scum until the point that she was lynched? Like a Schrödinger's scum? Nobody started off scum, but whoever got lynched day one became scum one and there isn't another scum and we're actually playing against Q, not each other? I know how batshit this sounds, but you're going to lynch me anyway. Almighty Bob the Computer is a veteran; he's seen a lot of crazy and he knows how to craft a game. We know there's a twist with this one, because we know about the no night actions and no PMing (thank Bob for that! Imagine the insanity if there had been PMing!) so maybe this is more of an experiment that we thought. The rules do say there are two scum, so that's a biiiiig no against all this, but the rules are not the standard rules. And when we said "what happens if we don't vote? Will the scum get a night kill?" Bob's answer of ".... yeah, sure... " might be considered to represent that actually there aren't any scum to kill us at night, but he had to say something. It still doesn't say in the rules what happens if we don't vote, and Riker even chided Bob the Computer over this. Is this all just Q messing with us? For Deanna's sake: Q is a little bit like a sort of Loki character, except not really. Anyway, if this is all just a simulation I'd like it to stop please. Computer - end holodeck programme Q's game please? Vote: Q (Bob) ? This feels insane, but it's not like there isn't precedent. I don't expect Deanna to unvote me, and I really am fine with being lynched because I don't think I'd be much help tomorrow. Wesley's log, supplemental: Why is today called "Ethics"? I get all the other titles I think, but not this one.

You are a therapist.

Yeah, I remember all that, keep your knickers on. I was saying that: I don't remember if Gorf has, at some point in this game, said anything much about anybody else. Because if I say he's said nothing and then it transpires he said two words about someone somewhere you'll all shriek "Liar!" at me, but I was saying it's hard for me to remember because all my memories of what he's said are strongly stained by his bloodlust for me.

I really don't remember; I was being generous. It might transpire that he's said bugger all about anyone but me and you, but I'd still look anyway. My mind has been somewhat preoccupied with the main thrust of all his posts, to whit my death.

I almost missed this. You don't "lean towards" lynching me, you've been at it full-tilt since the end of Day One. Others (Picard) may say I have focused on you, but that has been a relatively late development as a result of your relentless and single-minded pursuit of my lynch. Only now are you throwing out an impression that you're not completely sure I might be scum after all, as some sort of limp insurance for when you know I will turn up Town if I am lynched.

I don't think there's much of a case for any of you, but in the utterly unexpected situation where Gorf is somehow Town, I would reassess all three of you with a fine-toothed comb. I would consider what Gorf has said about some of you, and listen to what you're saying about each other. There's not much more I can say but that really.

Not quite what I said. Naturally I prefer people who aren't trying to lynch me, but it is more the fact that in recent days it would have been very easy to just shrug and vote me out. And Riker didn't, and neither did Picard. At the end of the day a dead Townie is a dead Townie, so they could have lynched me, but didn't. That makes them more likely to be Town in my eyes. It's taken you a while to come up with this. You've flitted in and out, and posted even, and now you say Deanna is scum because she won't lynch me and she wants to keep us both around? I really don't buy that at all. I mean, it's possible, but not as likely as you being scum. I guess you had to come up with some reason, though, but she's actively deciding between the two of us, so this really doesn't fit. It should be crystal clear in everyone's mind right now that if I am lynched then the next lynch should be you, Gorf. I'm not advocating anyone else, like you are.

I'm sorry you're cross, but you cannot equate three game days of relentless pursuit to lynch me with a couple of shady sentences about Deanna. If you made full and involved, reasoned cases against (or even for!) anybody else, then you might start to get close to parity. What? Yup, we're all just playing a game here. We all only have one vote, and we can all focus on anyone we want, but we cannot ignore everybody else to the exclusion of one player, because that is not how it's played. Does that mean that I might convince you to vote for yourself? ....You think that it's possible that both mostlytechnic and I made it really obvious in the thread that we were scum chums because nobody could catch us at night, but I thought I was so smart I could argue my way out of such a patently dumb move when he was being lynched. Yeah... it's.... possible. If I have a lobotomy. It would most definitely not be worth the attempt at all. I would burn him faster than you could say "Mommy!" and ride out the rest of the game as a loyal Townie in an untouchable status. And if I had that idea, guess who else might have? He's really not said that much about you, he's been really hoping I'd just die already. But there is now the fact that if I did die already, then you might all realise just how scummy he's been, so he has to cast around for other candidates. Of course he's smart enough to have done all this, in fact I even wonder if it was all deliberate with Bev cosying up to me, to make him untouchable and set me up to boot. Occam's Razor works best when you consider the scenario in which both he and I are smart, ie I'm Town and he's scum. No. This Mafia Game format, that's strikingly similar to every other Mafia Game I've ever played? Again, No. I've already said I am totally cool with you lynching me, on the proviso that as soon as you see I am Town you lynch Gorf. This isn't a suicide, because I'm not voting for myself. I'm not cool with just dying, but if it's driving you insane and if knowing I'm town will convince you that Gorf's scum, then I'm happy to be lynched to prove that point. If you're not willing to lynch Gorf tomorrow then I'm not willing to be lynched. Not that I have that much choice about it. Glad to see you're able to make it back again, especially as you were concerned about me "attacking" you when you might not be available. On Day Two you posted a sentence, two at most, each about three other suspects than me. Two of them are now dead, so that valuable insight of yours is no longer needed. For me you launched a full-scale attack, that you have maintained ever since. Not comparable by any stretch of the imagination. So we're back to it being all Beverly's fault, ok. And Beverly is dumb enough to behave like that?? Really, s/he might be surprised to hear that I disagree with that, and I think it was all carefully planned. Probably should have picked someone other than me, though. You are incredibly clever and devious Gorf. If you'd pulled this off it would have been a genius move, and there's no better game than this for it - you can't be caught out at night and you can't be investigated. Every death is by town consensus, you're not responsible. I really respect you for even trying this, but if you both really thought I would go without a fight, you were wrong. Right, so some other things. In my eyes: It's not Picard because of his behaviour yesterday and also his willingness to look around him and consider other options. He could have hammered me so easily and he didn't. Similarly with Riker, it's not Riker. If he were scum it would be no effort at all to agree with Gorf and boot me out, we wouldn't be going round in (seeming) circles today and you'd all be arguing about something else. I had a wobble over Deanna, but it's not her either. Nobody, not even she, would expend this much mental energy debating this when she could just throw her hands up and say it's me and move on. It's not me either, I've checked, I'm definitely town. So my opinions on everyone else's Towniness is related to the fact that they could have just booted me out but haven't, and no scum would give up an easy lynch, especially if they could blame it on Gorf. All of these pertain to me being Town, so if you lynch me and see I'm Town after all, you can finally see that it's Gorf who's the scum. Of course, I'd much prefer it if you lynched Gorf instead, so there's that.

You didn't quote me here, and the bit I assume you're referring to is from some time ago. Anyway, I never said you placed a poke vote and forgot about it. I have even previously suggested that it might have been deliberate, with Bev knowing she wouldn't be around too much and that you driving a lynch against her would make you virtually untouchable, especially with a game without night actions. Funny how things work out, eh? Interesting choice of word there, "dismiss" I said that I didn't see it, people say stuff like that all the time. Riker said it about me earlier, but there's something about the tone of "dismiss" that evokes a certain feeling. Smart. Anyway, we test investigation results, not opinions. Me not having the same point of view as you on what Beverley said is hardly enough to throw a perfectly good Townie onto the fire. You act like it is utterly unreasonable that I might have had a different point of view, and this was entirely obvious that Beverly was scum, so I must have known she was to pretend she wasn't. Except it wasn't entirely obvious to anyone who isn't scum, it's only entirely obvious to you because you are scum. And I've suggested a couple of times already that you should just go ahead and lynch me, but now it's worrisome for you, because you know I will actually end up Town, and people might just see that you're full of poo. That someone was me. I like how you're trying to make it sound like someone else out there agrees with you. I think you are indeed lining up Deanna, but that's the only person you've said anything about, and even then you've barely said anything, until now. What will you do tomorrow when I'm lynched and proven to be Town? Pretty much par for the course mind-losing at the moment, I think. So in this scenario I'm town now? Ok, and then Deanna's town too, after you and I have been lynched, so... Picard or Riker must be scum in your opinion? Only in the context that you're scum. Also, I see you're around again. You were worried I'd made a case against you when you might not be available, so I'm glad to see you are. I even voted to extend the day so you'd have plenty of time, so you didn't have to. Even though you did anyway. I can't dissect all this out, as I'll end up pulling my brain out of my ears. A lot of what you've said, I've already explained. I'll be happy to counter specific points if you'd like, but.... this will take me all day. I'll try to answer a few bits, but I think you need another whiskey. I think it's fair to say you think I was very scummy on Day One. Or Day Two. Or both? Or the whole game? Anyway, if you think I'm so scummy, vote me out because you're just not listening to me. That's what I am saying! You think I'm saying everything I'm saying because I'm scum, so I'm saying "vote me out, see I'm town and then take what I'm saying seriously". And don't accuse me of giving up or not fighting, because I seriously have been and I am. Gorf was so convinced I am scum that he waited to see what everyone else was going to do before voting for me yesterday, and he still seems hellbent on voting for me today. You're not bothered at all about what he said about you? I have said this before and I will say it again. I was accusing you of metagaming mostlytechnic. I don't think I have been unclear about this. I'm not completely sure, of course I'm not, but it was a very town thing to do in my opinion. The only person in the definite town category for me is me, obviously. If you think I have some sort of scum perspective here, then you must think I'm scum, so why aren't you voting for me? And please don't misunderstand, I'm not accusing you of being scum for not doing so, I'm just baffled by the quantity of weird logic going around. Do you notice any other "real Townies" asking that question? Or is it just me that carries that burden? The situation appeared to play out as I stated a few posts ago. I believe (and OF COURSE I may be wrong) that Picard was more concerned that the day would end with no lynch, handing the choice of the kill to the scum. Plus he might have still thought Data was actually scum. I don't believe Picard would do that, if he could have just "un-vote Data to keep a Townie" (your words) and in so doing kill anyone he liked. No, the previous incarnation was an excellent player. I stated at the time that his first couple of posts were the least scunny* posts a Picard had made. I never said he was definite Town, there is no definite Town to me but me. Yeah, he could have. The fact that he was willing to consider other possibilities regarding me makes him less scummy in my eyes. The same goes for you - you even, for but one glorious moment, suggest there's a possibility I might actually be Town. And again, you're misunderstanding my intent with what I've said about lynching me. Gorf has spent almost the entire game trying incredibly hard to lynch me for bugger all reason. That is not normal misguidance, that is wilful and mendacious pursuit. He has been so insistent that I must be scum, after aaaalll this time, that having cleared up the field a little, I am quite happy for you to lynch me, see that I am Town, and let the scales fall from your eyes to reveal Gorf for what he truly is. He has twisted and turned so much to engineer this, that it would be impossible for him to claim that it was just an accident, that he truly believed I was scum, and don't lynch him please, it was a terrible mistake, how was he supposed to know, after all? Ironically, this is exactly what Gorf's doing, but you just can't/won't/don't want to see it.

And yet here you are. You're perfectly capable of defending yourself, and any time you'd like to actually start, I'd love to hear it. I'm not lynching anybody - I was the hot favourite to be lynched yesterday and it was Data who lynched himself. I'm still around because I've done a decent job of defending myself, sorry. That and I am town. You still can't say why I'm your main suspect, though, can you? Is it still because of Bev today? Or is it because I just bloody well won't go away? You have not once stopped and thought "Hmm, maybe I have it wrong? Maybe I should consider some other potential suspects?" even though your entire case is rubbish and changes every day. Oooooh. wAkE uP sHeEpLe!! A real townie (it's so much nicer to think of it in those terms than What Would Scum Do) lacks knowledge and insight, and so reassesses the situation all the time, especially as the situations change. A real townie doesn't know who anyone really is, so gets confused by motives sometimes. A real townie listens to some of the other players. A colder response to that would be: well of course my suspects change each day, because the previous suspects are dead. I am quite happy to be lynched and proven town, and then the town will come for you Forg. They better come for you Forg. My team can still win if I die, yours can't.

I don't think he thought it would actually gain traction, and nobody would suspect the first person to vote for scum if they should be eventually lynched. The way I saw it was that Data actually preferred to be lynched himself than let the scum decide who would die. I believe Picard understood that goal and suggested a way to achieve it by unconventional means (Data voting for himself.) I don't believe either Data or Picard were aiming for no-lynch. They were actively working to avoid it, and we have the confirmation of Data's status as town to back it up. You accuse others of trying for a no-lynch (when they clearly weren't) and yet say you were kind of hoping the scum would get a kill. Like I said, if you don't like it then vote for me. As I've also already said, the events at the end of yesterday provided some clarity. Ironically clarity that you are now somewhat clouding. The fact that Riker has been willing to listen and evaluate evidence other than just about me, and the actions of Picard in conjunction with Data to prevent the scum from getting a night kill - well, that's one definite town (Data - we all wondered) and two likely townies. I know I'm town, and until this post I kinda thought you were too, so that left Forg. If I had been lynched earlier to yesterday's revelations, I don't think it would have helped as much, but now if I prove I'm town you all might look at people in a different perspective, and there's still time to lynch again tomorrow without me, as there are enough townies still to outnumber the scum. Forg didn't insist on lynching the traveller in the last game, I remember it quite clearly because I was the one he said he should have listened to and lynched the traveller sooner. He is not so inflexible as to utterly tunnel in on one person. I really feel like you're creeping up to The Forg. He's lovely and everything, but the whole of your post makes me decidedly uneasy about your motives with a lot of things. The self-deprecation is an odd fit on you, too. So maybe it isn't The Forg, maybe it's you. If you don't like that, vote me out. earlier *than yesterday's revelations

Having read what happened at the end of Day Three, I'm not surprised Data was town. Up until that last moment he was scummy as hell, and then he became a saint for the town. I hope the wizard gives you your heart or you become a real boy or whatever good things can happen to you, Data. In doing what he did at the moment that he did, Data has at least provided clarity. It's The Forg. The other scum is The Forg. The only person relentlessly pursuing me and not even willing to consider other actions. Picard and Troi at the end of yesterday did everything they could, along with Data, for the good of the town. I believe Riker has been acting in the interests of the town. I believe I have too, in trying very hard not to get a townie (me) lynched. Forg basically posted a guilt-ridden apology yesterday, after changing his tune about why he even suspected me. He has been utterly unwilling to consider anything else. Troi's not going to like it, but it's Forg. So here's my view on things. I'm going to Vote: Lieutenant Worf (Fugazi) and if you agree with me then vote for Forg too. If you disagree with me, vote for me, and when you see I am town you must, must, must get rid of Forg. I'm ok with it, vote me off as long as Forg goes the next day. It'd be nice if we could just vote him off now and wrap all this up, but having railed against this for so long I really don't expect that to happen, so vote me off and then vote Forg off. It's The Forg. Vote: Extend the Day

The suspicion won't remain that long if you actually lynch someone who is scum. No, a single scum cannot say anything they want. It is entirely possible, indeed probable, that a single scum out on their own will find some clumsy way to utterly fuck up. And Day One conversations are usually entirely fluff and bluster and roleplay and rubbish, not important at all. You flatter me, and I love it, but you are devilishly devious yourself, compadre. I see you've managed to coalesce an opinion on why I'm scummy and it seems that in fact it's actually that I'm not, and it's all Beverley's fault. Which is difficult for me as I can't argue about what Beverley did, because a)she's scum and b)I'm not her. Nice. And don't you all forget that under this delicious flattery is one of the other, if not the deviousest scummy scum to have ever played on EB. You acknowledge the metagaming, but do it anyway. Almost as if you know I actually am an honest townie. Are you lining up Troi for later? I'm so damn tired of this. I'll say it again for those in the back, I am town, but then, if you're going to metagame me, I suppose I would say that, wouldn't I?

You still can't tell me why you think I'm scum, you just want me gone. Ironically, this is your least scunny (sic) post so far. Not this bit, I only quoted this bit because of the "scunny". But it is interesting that you worry you might spend tomorrow thinking you might have to defend yourself if I end up town (which I will). Talk like that will get you lynched around here, Captain. Anyway, you've said enough for me to unvote you. (surprise!) Well, I think we are. I mean, I know I am for sure, and I think it's quite likely Deanna is too. This isn't what you'd say if you were scum; if you were scum you'd just want me gone. A bit like Data. I worry that it's The Forg, but I suspect I'd need to die to make that case. Please remember that it was he who grasped at this straw and pursued it across several days, ignoring almost anything else. It could also very easily be Data, and this is the case I would tend towards. He's said so very little, barely responded to any questioning and offered no true analysis of his own. I've played on the same side as him both as town and scum, and this fits his scum game to a tee including the gleeful bloodthirst and his utter lack worry that I might be actually be town. I think he knows I am and doesn't care. Unvote: Picard (Lind Whisperer) and Vote: Data (Trekkie99)