Bartybum

This year's flagship is the CAT...

Yeah this especially caught my attention. This is looking to be a very interesting 1H

I hadn’t noticed that, interesting :o

No the CAT is definitely not average. It just isn’t. Check my comment at the start of page 3.

Speaking of overrated (well not really but who cares), I'm still a bit bummed that I haven't seen anybody remove the gearbox and mod this set with proper suspension I'd be the change I wanna see in the world, but I'm in no position to buy this set. EDIT: OHP never mind lol, just found a video of it with suspension:

capitals are overrated lol

You keep saying this is properly priced, and the Liebherr is cheap, yet I struggle to see how that’s the case. Can you elaborate on what your understanding of the pricing strategy is?

Man I'm so bummed we don't have a new version of these, they have so much potential

Lol I was wondering how long it would take until this topic would pop up

Yeah, to further stiffen them since they stick out quite far

While there are some small things, the strongest criticism here is due to factors that we generally assume are beyond Kossman's control. Can you elaborate on which points you think people are blaming him personally for? Idk if anyone's mentioned/brought this up, but I'm happy to know that the rollers can in fact rotate and aren't fixed in place like some of us were worrying.

That's a really cool idea @2GodBDGlory It seems like it would be easy to further reinforce with more of those trans-blue frames!

Intent of the functions is more relevant than their execution in my opinion. What happens in the future if we end up getting more and more single-hub vehicles with functions that work well? Most of the sets are intended to be more complex than just driving and steering. I'm not against the idea of physical controllers for two-function vehicles, but I think there's hurdles to be overcome. How do you decide whether your vehicle uses conventional or skid steering? Is the controller intended to be able to be combined with others for more complex setups? If so then what's the point? Why not just stick with PF? EDIT: Nvm, misunderstood this. This is far more relevant to the discussion of the purpose of PU/C+, not the physical controller itself. Also, stepper mechanisms take up more space that isn't always available, depending on the model. Sure why not, but I'm only here because Maaboo started talking about screen time, so this comment isn't really relevant to what I was addressing. EDIT: Anyway, I'm gonna stop discussing this. I'm tired of it

Sorry but no, that's not how this works. If the argument is that there should be a physical controller because most of the sets are just drive + steering, then how is a physical controller supposed to account for extra functions that may vary depending on the model? Smart or not, the majority of the PU sets do not fit the bill. EDIT: K, editing is complete.

But they don't - of the seven PU sets we've had, only three are limited to driving and steering. The majority are large sets with complex functions that extend beyond driving and steering.

I've said this before but I think a better solution would have been to separate the smart electronics from the batteries, i.e. a flat processing unit connected to a separate dumb battery box.

I don't think that's the reason... Pretty sure the whole point of PU is to allow for complex control that would otherwise be too difficult to implement with physical controllers, namely with extra functions that require calibration.

What are you talking about? This set has issues but none of them (save for the ripper) make it not work as a capable bulldozer.

Called it, MK designed it

@Jim Thanks for the thread. Your comment got me wondering. I went and dug up some numbers for a bunch of Technic sets in recent history, in order to understand how PU is priced when in sets. Didn't need to be done but hell it's a Friday night here: All set masses were obtained from Sariel's reviews. For the CAT, I estimated the set weight based on a ~5.8kg boxed weight I found on some random toy store, and multiplied that by the ratio of set weight to boxed weight for the Liebherr. Note that where relevant, I've removed the mass of the batteries (six AA batteries weigh approximately 200g). The effects of battery weight should obviously become less pronounced with increasing set weight. The cost of pieces in a PU set was estimated from the approximate price per kg for sets of similar weight that don't use PU. In the case of the two older 4k flagships (BWE and Rough Terrain Crane), the weight of the PF components is assumed to be negligible when compared to the rest of the set. From that, I estimated the cost of the PU components for each PU set by subtracting the estimated cost of pieces, allowing me to form a bunch of simultaneous equations/relations (not intended to be solved obviously) from which we can hope to estimate how TLC prices PU in sets. They are roughly grouped below according to the amount of hubs and motors. Note that “standalone” refers to the cost the PU components when bought directly from Lego: 42109: 1H + 2M ~ 75€ (~150€ standalone) 42124: 1H + 2M ~ 90€ (~150€ standalone) 42099: 1H + 3M ~ 102€ (~185€ standalone) 42114: 1H + 3M ~ 30€ (~185€ standalone) 42129: 1H + 3.5M ~ 140€ (~200€ standalone) 42131: 1H + 4M ~ 191€ (~220€ standalone) 42100: 2H + 7M ~ 171€ (~400€ standalone) There's unfortunately not much data to work with here, but the regular cost of PU in sets would appear to hover around half of the equivalent standalone RRP. It's quite noisy data, however. I think what's happened is a pre-emptive markup on RRP of ~20% on the PU sets because of the pandemic - I've heard that prices elsewhere (at least here in Australia) have also gone up by ~20%. When I reduce the prices of the Zetros and CAT to something more reasonable at 250€ and 360€, the price of the PU electronics drop down to 90€ and 100€, which are also near half of the cost of buying standalone PU. TL;DR - It's incorrect to say that the Liebherr was cheap, as the estimated PU cost was on par with other sets. Both the CAT and Zetros' electronics simply cost too much, but the case is especially obvious with the CAT. EDIT: Sariel's 42131 video is out! Turns out my weight estimate was quite close!

Yeah so do we

@TeamThrifty I'd be interested to see where you draw the line for a 4k piece set with only one smart hub, if you don't consider £350 a rip off

EDIT: mods pls delete, I accidentally got the wrong thread

I vibe with this so much. People gotta stop compartmentalising everything

There probably are, but driven + steered axles typically have poor steering angles because of the limited lock of the CV joint hubs. There's an already existing topic about axles that you should check out. You might be able to find something in there. Otherwise, there's plenty on Rebrickable, YouTube and Google Images that you should be able to find. I assume he means a modular axle