Technic 2015 Discussion and Speculation

[efferman]

If all this is true, this model will be a alltime epic.

[davidmull]

If all this is true, this model will be a alltime epic.

It sure sounds like it. I just hope the tipper is pneumatic and not an la. I don't like the mixture of both.

[MajklSpajkl]

The higher our hopes, the bigger our disappointment...AFOL perception on a flagship is seldom the same as that of TLG.But those sound really promising :-)

Edited January 2, 2015 by MajklSpajkl

[a_h_adl]

The higher our hopes, the bigger our disappointment...AFOL perceptive on a flagship is seldom the same as that of TLG.But those sound really promising :-)

I agree!

[Milan]

Where's allanp lol

Probably still twisting LEGO designer's arms at TLG headquarters, until he is sure that longer cylinders are out on the market.

I hope those longer cylinders that we all have been waiting for a long time, are at least 100% longer than old ones, or even better, 150% longer. I am afraid, that at this scale of the truck, they will be only 50% longer.

[davidmull]

Probably still twisting LEGO designer's arms at TLG headquarters, until he is sure that longer cylinders are out on the market.

I hope those longer cylinders that we all have been waiting for a long time, are at least 100% longer than old ones, or even better, 150% longer. I am afraid, that at this scale of the truck, they will be only 50% longer.

Even 50% will be great. Hopefully they might have a thinner body though.

[TeClem8]

These new pneumatic cylinders are great news !

New projects are in my head.

Apparently you've seen a fairly detailed picture. What length do they do approximately ?

[Freekysch]

I hope we will get pictures as soon as possible. Really curious how the crawler crane looks too, i missed 8288 and will be getting this for sure.

[Ondra]

All big sets have fake cylinders, based on truck number 3245 it has L6 engine.

Any signs, that there is possibility to put hook on arm rather than claw?Maybe b model is crane arm, because overall set is so complex that all new b model will not be possible to make another MB .

[andythenorth]

Any signs, that there is possibility to put hook on arm rather than claw?

You mean in the official instructions, right? Because I'm prepared to bet a lot on it being 'possible' </smartass>

Edited January 2, 2015 by andythenorth

[Bricktrain]

I hope they have the same large body so they will still fit the cylinder brackets

[davidmull]

Anyone know the model number for the mercedes ?

I hope they have the same large body so they will still fit the cylinder brackets

I hope not the cylinders are a bit too big at is. If there long enough u won't need cylinder brackets

[Jockos]

Anyone know the model number for the mercedes ?

I hope not the cylinders are a bit too big at is. If there long enough u won't need cylinder brackets

It's 42043

[Milan]

According to TB, it seems that there are three different sizes for cylinders.

[Conchas]

Please realize that I hink the third could be a new pump and not properly a pneumatic cylinder.

[Thirdwigg]

Interesting developments. I get the sense pictures of 42043 are somewhere on the Internet.

[dhc6twinotter]

Three different pneumatc cylinder would make sense. Small cylinder(s) on the claw and everything else might be a combination of existing cylinders and the new, long cylinders.

A new compressor would be interesting, and I would love to see new valves.

[Milan]

So far so good!

[rollermonkey]

Interesting developments. I get the sense pictures of 42043 are somewhere on the Internet.

Indeed... Wish someone would share a link.

[Ondra]

I think these photos circulate in personnal messages.Even google doesnt know any kind of photo source.

[mzoli]

The Building Instruction pdf files are now available at lego.com for sets 42031-41, incuding B models.

Happy building!

Edited January 3, 2015 by mzoli

[Bricktrain]

often just pics seen in distributor catalogs

I think these photos circulate in personnal messages.Even google doesnt know any kind of photo source.

[Brickthus]

Best possible pipe-dream result would be a tipper with double- or triple-concentric pneumatic cylinders with large extension compared to their length

Next best would be like fork lift truck 8843 where a chain doubles to length of movement achieved by a longer (64mm rather than 48mm) pneumatic cylinder. A 64mm cylinder has not yet been made with double-ended pneumatics - I would have to see the pics to determine whether a new cylinder design is likely. However, a function like lifting a tipper body does not need best reliability from the top chamber in the cylinder; this has been a problem with the existing pneumatic cylinders. I have sorted mine according to how good the top seal is, and have used those with poor top seals for rail points control in pairs, using only the bottom chamber. A cylinder will usually take air in between the metal shaft and the top hole if the seal is not good and leakage out of the top is rare but has occurred once or twice under heavy load. A scissor mechanism could also achieve the tipper raising cylinder extension multiplication, though I suspect the usual design of cylinder(s) underneath would prevail.

Another question is what it means for the B-model of the truck. If it would use the pneumatic parts in an automated loop, like the refuse truck B-model of classic crane truck 8868, then this would be the very best thing for learning in the Technic community. It would get more people into pneumatics. If you have at least 2 cylinders and 2 switches and would like to try a pneumatic loop then start here. Once you understand the basic loop, you can move on to more complex circuits like this one that controls a 4-function robot.

Mark

[davidmull]

I think u are dreaming mark!

[Brickthus]

I think u are dreaming mark!

That would be excusable at 3:06AM UK time!

I think it is good to have vision and be idealistic within reason. Comparison with reality shows the gap as the aspiration. How to bridge the gap is the engineering challenge!

Seriously though, I think a telescopic pneumatic cylinder is a bit beyond TLG's reach, as demonstrated by the difficulty of keeping the top chamber shaft seal reliable on a normal 48mm cylinder. I suggested it to them in 1997 and have heard nothing since

A 64mm cylinder would be within reach but would be no more reliable than the 48mm cylinder. It would also be more vulnerable to sideways forces when extended. This is possible but I want to see the pictures to believe it

An 80mm cylinder would be possible with current technology but this is unlikely because of the same issues

What has been used previously is two 48mm cylinders end-to-end, with investment demonstrated by a specific piece being designed for the job. Unfortunately, far from improving the extension over length (l/d) ratio, it makes it worse by having more distance in the middle whilst holding the cylinders. 1M between bottom hole centres is unavoidable but the piece adds another 1M. This could be combined with a doubling chain mechanism for a decent fork lift or tipper height.

I certainly think a 2M-wide compressor is a good idea. Current technology has shown good enough reliability from the bottom chamber of the 48mm cylinders so this is very possible. The choice then is between a hand pump cylinder with the spring removed and a new piece, perhaps shorter and with shorter travel such as the 2M travel of the compressor in the Unimog 8110. A hand pump compressor would need a relatively slow crankshaft rotation, perhaps using 40-tooth cogs or the recent weapon barrels as the cranks. A shorter compressor with 2M travel could use 2M "++" liftarms as used in the Unimog and have faster crankshaft speed. What I would like to see is a more-even load distribution for the compressor crankshaft by using two opposing compressors on the shaft, doubling the compression rate for the same rotation and the same peak load, but that is a matter of set economics - if we AFOLs would buy two $200 trucks to get two compressors then TLG would be happy to sell us two - kerching!

Another thing is the motor power for a compressor. An L-Motor is capable of powering a couple of 32MM 1M-wide compressors in anti-phase. I have experimented with more, using a pair of 5292 motors with 16 compressors. Even those most powerful motors in the LEGO range overheated after a few minutes. Then I tried 4 compressors with both motors with faster gearing and a variable-stroke mechanism. This means I could reduce the stroke to maintain a pressure and reduce motor load. This worked well up to a point - the motors could still overheat after a while at full stroke. It was better overall than using 16 compressors but it shows the amount of power required - still more than the PF motors will provide, yet they are such a great step forward from the previous era. Before PF the 12V train motor was the most powerful at 8 Watts (12V, 0.667A) peak and I harnessed them like this. A pair of L-motors could take 9V at 600mA for a while in the Crawler 4x4 - a sustained 5.4 Watts (600mA is the limit of the IR Receiver V2 motor driver chip in single-channel mode). For us it is still a case of more motors for more compressors because the market for even bigger motors is too small.

I still think a pneumatic loop in a set is well overdue - in fact 24 years overdue since 8868 in 1991!

Mark