MIDI-Scale Invisible Hand and Venator

[potoooooooo]

Good to here there is still progress happening, i hope i didn't come off as rude.

You are incredibly talented, and I'd be more than willing to pay a fee for plans, whenever you are willing to release them.

Good luck learning those programs, they'll be a million times better than the clunky and vintage (I remember playing around in it many years ago and it looked the same) LDD

[Pcm979]

There are four major issues for which I won't just share the LDD file or auto-generated instructions.

• The interior (plus some exterior things) has changed a lot since I proved my initial LDD concept failing to be built in real and since certain moment I did not track the changes in LDD. Partially because I made a lot of iterations and experiments and simply didn't have time (or taste) to do these on my LDD file, also because LDD brick database is awfully outdated and some key parts weren't (still aren't) available and also some bricks connections (completely legal) were impossible to do. So my 3d model now looks similar to the final design, yet is quite different and hardly buildable.
  

• This model is far to complex for generated guide. I tried to make that one and it's simply impossible to follow. You'd have better luck building just with the 3d model view. Generated instructions kinda works for Invisible Hand, yet still not perfectly by far. And again, there were changes made that aren't in the file.
  

• I believe these models deserve proper instructions - as simple as that :)
  

• I want to charge a little sum per instructions, therefore I feel responsible for it's quality. I would feel bad selling that auto-generated **** :)
  

For you who want to build the copies, sort of good news is that as for now, the models are quite expensive and hard to build due to some new and certainly very rare parts. Some of them seem to appear in 2016 sets so the availability on BrickLink should get better. Therefore some waiting for the instructions may save some costs eventually :D

Those all sound like great reasons. I'm prepared to be patient!

Good luck learning those programs, they'll be a million times better than the clunky and vintage (I remember playing around in it many years ago and it looked the same) LDD

While I don't want to get into an argument, I'd like to point out that having tried both LDD and MLCad, one of them was instantly easy to pick up and use, and the other one was beyond unintuitive and comparatively 'clunky and vintage'.

What I'm saying is that, to an expert, MLCad may seem sleek and amazing, but to the average person you may as well be dropping them into the cockpit of a Jumbo Jet, slapping them on the back, and telling them that you'll see them in Manila in a few hours. As for the tutorials... Jumbo Jets come with instruction manuals too. You basically need instruction manuals just to understand the instruction manuals.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Pcm979

[Kristof]

^ Haha, you nailed it :) I remember trying MLCad several years ago and I end up after failing to place 2 bricks the way I wanted them. Back then LDD seemd like blessing. Though I must say that MLCad did some progress since these days while LDD remains the same - intuitive but lacking functions, and (more importantly) updated bricks. I hope I can learn it with not much pain, lets see...

potato..o, thanks! I'll do my best!

[phaelon]

Kris, I'm now following this thread after reading your post on DMarc's AT-AT thread regarding UCS sizing. I appreciate your challenging the perception that bigger is better, and I am very excited for you to complete this project. Hopefully the skills you learned and funds you raise from this endeavor will encourage you to push forward with other designs in the same scale.

[Kristof]

Thanks a lot!

My engineering studies keep me off my Lego passion these days (weeks to be precise). Term is comming to it's end, exam period on it's way and I feel the days are twice as short as it should be :) This madness will hopefully be over in like 3 weeks and then I move on, at least that's the plan.

[phaelon]

Well, good luck on your exams. I remember those days, and do not envy you one bit. :)

On a side note, I studied your posted size for the Venator (54 studs) and Invisible Hand (50 studs) to determine the scale (1 : 2673.6) and (1 : 2720) respectively. Taking an average of those two gives a target scale of 1:2697. I then applied that to many of the other movie Star Wars ships to see what would be viable to build at the same scale. I came up with this...

Battle	  Faction    Ship					    m (actual) mm (scale)   Studs
Endor	  Empire    Death Star II				    160000	   59328    7416
Endor	  Empire    Super Star Destroyer			    19000	   7048	    881
Coruscant Separatist    Lucrehulk Battleship			    3170	   1176	    147
Endor	  Empire    Imperial Star Destroyer			    1600	   592	    74
Endor	  Rebellion    MC80 Home One Class			    1300	   488	    60
Endor	  Rebellion    MC80 Liberty Class			    1200	   448	    56
Coruscant Republic    Venator Star Destroyer			    1155	   432	    54
Coruscant Separatist    Providence Dreadnought (Invisible Hand)	    1088	   400	    50
Endor	  Empire    Interdictor Heavy Cruiser		    600	   224	    28
Endor	  Rebellion    Bulk Cruiser				    600	   224	    28
Endor	  Rebellion    Dreadnought Class Heavy Cruiser		    600	   224	    28
Endor	  Empire    Carrack Light Cruiser			    350	   128	    16
Endor	  Rebellion    Nebulon B Frigate			    300	   112	    14
Endor	  Rebellion    Corellian Corvette (CR90)		    150	   56		 7
Endor	  Rebellion    Corellian Gunship (DP20)		    120	   48		 6
Endor	  Rebellion    GR-75 Medium Transport			    90	   32		 4
Endor	  Rebellion    Millennium Falcon			    34.4	   16		 2

Basically, anything between an ISD and Nebulon B could work in this scale. The Corvettes and lower get pretty small, but could potentially be represented in a battle scene. I'm intrigued to explore this further once I can analyze your final version.

Edited January 9, 2016 by phaelon

[Ellisss_]

Lego should make this into a set as it would not be an expensive set to buy. Good job!

[ZackSchnepf]

Fantastic design on both ships, particularly the Venator. I'll be following the progress of this thread. I'd love to build the Venator at some point. I love the scale of this one.

[Nikolas]

How did you manage to get all the necessary bricks for the Venator model?

Did you buy them all on Pick A Brick LEGO Shop or did you have to go on other websites or even buy some Star Wars models which had the pieces you needed?

Maybe you could post a list of all the built in bricks so I/we could already start to get all of them? :)

I know you are quite busy at the moment, so take your time, no rush.

I'm just an eager fan of your models!

[droid747]

If you ever release instructions for this I would buy them. I love the venator and want to build anios version but one in this scale/size would be much easier to display.

[Kristof]

How did you manage to get all the necessary bricks for the Venator model?

Did you buy them all on Pick A Brick LEGO Shop or did you have to go on other websites or even buy some Star Wars models which had the pieces you needed?

Hi, well I was obtaining bricks for both of the ships simultaneously but I don't think it would be any easier if I were focusing on just the Venator. All in all, I had about 600 bricks to start in my collection. The rest I had to hunt down on BrickLink (7 orders) and Lego B&P (1 order). It could have been a bit easier If I accepted 'used' parts which I didn't want to. Also on Bricklink, I only chose stores from mid europe to minimize the delivery time.

Time is not my best friend here, haha. But I started workin on MLCad model so I'll have a partlist soon. I'll probably offer it along with instructions though, I better not let you buy parts before it's sure that you will have the instructions eventually :D At least I'm motivated to hurry up with the instructions.

If you ever release instructions for this I would buy them. I love the venator and want to build anios version but one in this scale/size would be much easier to display.

Thank you, I hope I can make them available for you in some reasonable time. Anio's model (based on Thire5 original masterpiece - I always make sure to mention that ;) ) is of course whole another league, but... at least four times more expensive, stationary and like you say, harder to display unless you have generous amount of shelving space. Anyway, I hope this one will fulfill your expectations ;)

For anyone - I Finally got myself a better camera so I can take some better pictures. Should find some time for it this weekend.

[Forresto]

If I had the money too I would love to build a massive fleet of both of these ships and pretend to play out big Clone Wars era space battles Have you thought of making a Munificent class ship to go along with these?

[Kristof]

^ Yes, I'm also tempted to get more of these :D It's not that expensive and I'm sure some of you guys easily could (it's like one bricklinked UCS MF would easily give for 6+ of these :D ) but surely enough expensive for me (even building one required some self persuasion.

Anyway, Munificent - yes. That was actually the initial plan making most of the Coruscant battle spaceships in the same scale (I even have crazy plan to make scaled Lucrehulk-class but that's 15k piece estimate - need to discover a gold vein on my backyard... speaking of which, I need to get my backyard first - anyway, long way to go). I have LDD scatches for both Munificent and Recusant but sp far they lack the perfection (that sounds puffy right? :D ) I managed to achieve with Venator and Invisible Hand. But I'll surely get back to them. Now focusing on the instructions.

[Jackad7]

Alright so I'm dropping in now as total diehard fan of the battle scene in the beginning of the third movie and I'm currently wiping the drool off my keyboard. These ships are perfectly scaled, look amazing, and aren't going to cost me multiple body parts (unlike full size versions of them would). Do you have a parts list you could post so I can began collecting the parts? I will surely be willing to pay for the instructions when you have those I just want to be proactive on this.

[BigEl]

Nice to see that those ship designs are still "alive". They definitely deserve it!

Even though bricklinking complete constructions is insanely expensive, this one might be the highest on my list that I would ever do if I can ever find the money and stamina to get the parts

Edited February 28, 2016 by BigEl

[Kristof]

^Hi, thanks! As I just said several posts above and explained earlier(I guess I should make some announcement in leading post - I know it's inconvinient to read all the replies), partlists are yet incomplete. I'm working on building the models in LDraw software and im about 10% through now. As soon as I complete these, I'll let you know regarding these part lists ;)

(I have the initial LDD files which can provide part lists but both models changed a lot since I stopped making the updates to those files, and multiple parts aren't available in LDD)

[GARcc3734]

Supported. I really wish TLG never canceled the Midi Line. Those sets were small enough to be swooshable and big enough to have detail. I hope they resurrect that series.

[appiah4]

Oh that Venator...... How much it would cost to bricklink that I wonder....

[Ellisss_]

Oh that Venator...... How much it would cost to bricklink that I wonder....

I reckon £50-60

Edited March 8, 2016 by Ellisss_

[droid747]

Supported. I really wish TLG never canceled the Midi Line. Those sets were small enough to be swooshable and big enough to have detail. I hope they resurrect that series.

I finally opened and put together my midi star destroyer 8099 i have had for a year or so. It looks awsome for that size and a venator would look sick next to it.

[avell]

It will be great if you success to design it with LDraw !

[Kristof]

I hope they resurrect that series.

As far as I remember, it wasn't really a series - couple models in different scales where 'midi' stood rather as a set-size (part count) descriptor. What I aim for is uniform scale within the models - that doesn't really mean the model has to be small ;) 1,5k+ pieces on venator makes it decent build already.

Oh that Venator...... How much it would cost to bricklink that I wonder....

I reckon £50-60

I think I might have spent a little over $100 given I had about 400 pieces in my collection to the start. Considering the piece count (1,5k) and some fairly rare elements, it seems like reasonable price to me. Perhaps with better BL order optimization, the costs could be cut further reduced.

I finally opened and put together my midi star destroyer 8099 i have had for a year or so. It looks awsome for that size and a venator would look sick next to it.

Congratz - I wish I had that piece :) Though it would look inappropriately tiny next to this Venator - it's supoosed to be about 20% bigger right? I think the new minifig ISD playset is close to the right scale.

It will be great if you success to design it with LDraw !

Thanks! Working on it.

[appiah4]

I think I might have spent a little over $100 given I had about 400 pieces in my collection to the start. Considering the piece count (1,5k) and some fairly rare elements, it seems like reasonable price to me. Perhaps with better BL order optimization, the costs could be cut further reduced.

As incredible as it is, that's a bit too steep for me.. But that was expected with the brick count. I should probably look around for a good 'mini' scale MOC at around 500-1,000pcs I guess :D

[Kristof]

^ It was definitely very high for me too - part of a reason why it has taken over a year to me, persuading myself to start that endeavor of collecting parts :) Now I can say with confidence that it was definitely worth it. And really, looking at the lego prices, I highly doubt they would sell it cheaper if there was such set on shelves - it's rather clear candidate for their $169 price tag :D

As I say, BL orders may give you variable outcome. If you have access to US market, the better for you (and the total price) and I honestly believe it can be done cheaper if planned carefully (avoiding high shipping costs, reducing number of orders). Sometimes it's just lucky find to discover the store that has whole bunch of pieces you need for fair prices... well and good things happen to good people :D

[droid747]

That will not be that bad of a price. Once instructions and parts lists are made I would be happy to get the pieces for around 150ish