MOC Sharing Dilemma

[Cumulonimbus]

For a while now, I struggle with the dilemma whether or not to share my MOCs and WIPs with the online community via this forum and/or Brickshelf.

On several occasions I read about MOCs being copied and even sold without proper reference to the original designer. I’m also hesitant due to ‘losing control’ of your design. By this, I mean the fact that other AFOLS make LDD files and building instructions which tend to lead their own life and create the impression that it is their work. I’m not certain whether this should be interpreted as a complement or if this is typical for these modern times where ownership of creative content is more and more ignored.

To me, creating MOCs is all about finding a creative solutions for the challenges a certain model poses. Once I have finished a MOC (if it is ever finished), the satisfaction is in owning a functional model with the correct proportions of the real deal.

On one hand I don’t really feel the desire to fish for complements or get satisfaction out of comments, forgive me if this sounds a bit arrogant. On the other hand, I’m always eager to learn and have a drive to improve my skills. One of the best tools for this is getting constructive feedback from peers. Additionally, other peoples MOCs have served as a source of inspiration for my own, so is it time to return the favor?

What are your opinions about this subject?

[Milan]

Its up to you, no one should tell you whether you share it or not.

But, if everyone has the same attitude, we wouldn't ever see any mocs on the net, neither on the events. We would miss all the masterpieces people share every day.

It is always compliment when someone copies you. As someone says: imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery.

I know how you feel about creative solutions and satisfactions, I feel the same, probably as the rest of the guys here.

But I think large portion of our satisfaction (when building a moc) is a chance to present it to the world, and it would be shame to miss it, whether it gather positive or negative comments, or even none.

[vmln8r]

Well, your last point is reason enough for me. Seeing the creations people posted online was one of the things that got me building again.

[piterx]

sharing solutions is always the best way to improve designs... you might find a good solution but someone can improve it and make it better :)

despite of what i just said, sometimes you get disappointed by the ungratefulness of people, you get something like 1500 views and only 10 comments, meaning that probably 500 users may take inspiration from your moc without not even telling you "well done mate, this can be useful"

i share my stuff for the 10 users that add a comment to my threads just because they deserve it :)

all the rest are ungrateful :P

[Zerobricks]

If you dont share you can never grow and improve on yourself... Also what do you have to lose?

[JM1971]

Sharing moc's fuel's interest, if you see anyone trying to sell your moc then add a reply linking to the free version.

[Kelkschiz]

i think it is a bit arrogant to see a MOC as something that is a 100% your own design. I think most MOCs get created by borrowing a lot of ideas and inspiration from others, and that should be acknowledge. That is why i don't really believe in the ownership of a certain creation. The truth is, i need other LEGO builders to improve myself. If everyone had to start by inventing the wheel, i know we would still be in the stone-age now. For me it's all about being inspired myself and inspiring other people. In some very real way a MOC not shared, is a MOC that never existed. Its like a writer of a book who doesn't let anyone read his work, the creation may have been a enjoyable experience, but when the writer dies the book dies with him. When a book or MOC is shared it becomes part of humanity and in a way it will never die.

[Sariel]

Don't share a thing. Live secretly, preferably in the woods. Stay low, stay hidden, stay vigilant, build your own fort ;)

Edited May 16, 2014 by Sariel

[rm8]

sharing solutions is always the best way to improve designs... you might find a good solution but someone can improve it and make it better :)

despite of what i just said, sometimes you get disappointed by the ungratefulness of people, you get something like 1500 views and only 10 comments, meaning that probably 500 users may take inspiration from your moc without not even telling you "well done mate, this can be useful"

i share my stuff for the 10 users that add a comment to my threads just because they deserve it :)

all the rest are ungrateful :P

Hey PiterX! I and Jackson are waiting for instruction of your sequental gearbox from Mitsu. It will be very-very useful for us so when?

Sometimes you wanna make something unusual and make a surprise. So you dont show your WIP till the end. But this way you can miss some good advices that can seriously improve your MOC. But if you are really strong in building, like Sariel, you dont need advices - you show WIP pictures just to warm up interest before release.

So if you feel that you need help and advices - share you WIP.

As for me - I think I am lazy and slow in building. So I dont share my WIP, because my WIP thread can lasts monthes and years....so it will not interesting to read my WIP threads

Edited May 16, 2014 by rm8

[Sariel]

Actually, I get a lot of good advice from showing WIP pictures.

Seriously, isn't this thread a bit paranoid? The book I wrote got pirated left and right, and I don't do drama about it. If you're afraid the internet people will steal your ideas, then perhaps you shouldn't rely on internet people for advice.

[gti180]

I wouldn't be making anything if it wasn't for seeing Dennis Bosman website by mistake. That brought me out of my dark ages and got me interested in engineering again.

I also think LDD files and other programs help people find career paths in CAD related jobs.

I don't believe any MOC can be a 100% original, all of the things I make are inspired by things I've seen other people and Lego themselves do. sharing pictures and taking time to help others on forums are what make us a community and that's part of the enjoyment.

I do agree with you in part though, someone shouldn't be making money from your hard work at least not without credit being given to the builder.

Should anyone be allowed to make money from something that is ultimately a LEGO brand that none of us own the rights to?????

Edited May 16, 2014 by gti180

[mechamike]

(at least that what I think)

Edited May 16, 2014 by mechamike

[Cumulonimbus]

There are very valid points made here, I would like to add some points in addition to my OP.

I expressed a personal feeling and sure, I might be perceived as arrogant or paranoid, but that doesn’t mean the sentiment is not real. I don’t live in a cave and I love this technological era where it was never easier to create, share and build on a global level. LDD, custom parts of Efferman, the Sariel book, the 41999 contest and so on, are fascinating phenomena which partly fuel my hobby. It’s even my job, but without Lego unfortunately.

At the same time, I can’t shake the feeling that the ease of copying stuff results in the loss of respect for that stuff and its creator in some way. After all MOC stands for “My Own Creation”, this term loses it meaning once disconnected of the creator, then it becomes “Somebody Elses Creation”.

I also would like to clarify that, for me personally, being inspired by an item is something completely different than copying that item. I always try to figure out why an innovative of unfamiliar solution looks the way it does, understand the principle behind it and apply it in my own way. These solutions are not exclusively sourced in MOC’s. Official TLG creations and real machines are by far the biggest sources of inspiration.

What do I have to lose? That is a good question. The uniqueness maybe, the lack of obligations (a level of quality, pressure to finish) potentially, not sure about this yet. To be very clear: I am not after any reward (money, status). I was just thinking out loud about my what my expectations would be and whether or not this would lead to disappointment or satisfaction.

It is also true that the boundary between MOCs and MODs is vague. I often start out with a modification of an existing set, which then slowly evolves in a completely custom machine, which is an own creation but has some of the looks and functions of the initial set. Can I take credit for such a MOD/MOC if it is based on a TLG set?

Come to think of it, part of the doubt is probably the question whether or not I think if I’m good enough. Is anybody really interested in my insignificant attempts in an ocean of MOCs, MODs, WIPs and TLG sets?

[Tommy Styrvoky]

I personally think that is a good idea to post stuff because you never know, your MOC could be the only build of a certain vehicle/thing.

[Kelkschiz]

Despite the fact that this thread has few people agreeing with you, i do feel that this nice lively debate has it's own worth, and it is definitely a subject which most of us have had to deal with at some point. Of course, on this forum, you will mostly find people who already made the choice to share.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Kelkschiz

[piterx]

Hey PiterX! I and Jackson are waiting for instruction of your sequental gearbox from Mitsu. It will be very-very useful for us so when?

Sometimes you wanna make something unusual and make a surprise. So you dont show your WIP till the end. But this way you can miss some good advices that can seriously imrove your MOC. But if you are really strong in building, like Sariel, you dont need advices - you show WIP pictures just to warm up interest to before release.

So if you feel that you need help and advices - share you WIP.

As for me - I think I am lazy and slow in building. So I dont share my WIP, because my WIP thread can lasts monthes and years....so it will not interesting to read my WIP threads

eheh don't worry they will come out soon man :)

i've been busy with the car im gonna show in a couple of hours :P

[Off the wall]

I have some modular building MOCs. One is about the size of town hall and was built with two PRs and one GE. I don't post pictures because I'm lazy and just don't have the motivation to do so. I couldn't care less if someone would copy them (I have shared them with a few people). I wouldn't even care if I was so talented (which I'm probably not) that someone wanted to hijack my design. To me, it would be a compliment. It would be just a bit presumptuous on my part to worry about sharing my designs. I know modular MOCs aren't necessarily the topic but, anyway, the vast majority of modular MOCs that I see look like nothing more than shoeboxes set on their ends and then placed on 16 x 32 plates.

Maybe my problem is that I just can't take Lego all that seriously. It makes me smile, and smiling is about as serious as I want to get.

[zux]

I have some modular building MOCs. One is about the size of town hall and was built with two PRs and one GE. I don't post pictures because I'm lazy and just don't have the motivation to do so. I couldn't care less if someone would copy them (I have shared them with a few people). I wouldn't even care if I was so talented (which I'm probably not) that someone wanted to hijack my design. To me, it would be a compliment. It would be just a bit presumptuous on my part to worry about sharing my designs. I know modular MOCs aren't necessarily the topic but, anyway, the vast majority of modular MOCs that I see look like nothing more than shoeboxes set on their ends and then placed on 16 x 32 plates.

Imagine you could create something, that is nothing special for you, but could make a huge impact sudenly, like BOOM: new theme, way of thinking, lots of new ideas and other people's creations! Your name may also be remembered

[D3K]

I think it should be up to the individual to what extent he or she want's to share a design of their own.. while some share detailed pictures, some go the extra mile and spend hours making instructions (whether it be to sell or give away), some might not even want to show a picture of their work..

While making a never before seen solution to a problem, one might feel a form of "ownership" over said solution, and maybe one won't be willing to share it with anyone.. luckily, most times in these forums at least, solutions are shared, and that is IMO one of the great things about this hobby; the exchange of experiences and ideas.

We have seen Chinese websites selling other peoples' instructions (even those that are initially made free to the public), and of ourse it shouldn't be that way, but I guess it's inevitable.. And there are far worse things beeing copied in China than some simple MOC instructions, to put it mildly!!

I would like to say this though; while you get a nice feeling of success for coming up with a solution or design in a MOC, that feeling is multiplied tenfold when other people can try your design, agree with you on it's ingenuity, or maybe suggest a solution to that one, tiny detail you felt was wrong in your design but couldn't quite figure out!

[Lipko]

I haven't read through the thread but I can say two things:

1.) You are paranoid

2.) don't expect constructive criticism here. People are too nice here to say their negative criticism (unless it's a MOC from a non-member. All the negativity gets poured on those )

I also think it's the greatest form of admire if your MOC is being built by others or being blogged in any ways. I don't really care if I don't get properly credited, because the Technic community over the world is so small that the final credit and recognition will quickly get back to the original creator. I don't care if Average Joe thinks that a MOC was built someone else than me, as long as the small community knows about the real creator.

And if someone makes 50 dollars for selling instructions then I don't give a flying f****

EDIT: so what I'm trying to say is:

*This community is way too small to worry that people who really matter (other builders or real enthusiastic) won't know if the creation is made by you.

*the best way to get feedback if people actually build your MOCs (not just saying nice things in a thread). And for that, you'll need to release the whole design in some way.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Lipko

[zabdiel]

It is also true that the boundary between MOCs and MODs is vague. I often start out with a modification of an existing set, which then slowly evolves in a completely custom machine, which is an own creation but has some of the looks and functions of the initial set. Can I take credit for such a MOD/MOC if it is based on a TLG set?

Yeah, you can take credit for a MOD, you've made something original even if it's based on a TLG set, that still requires creativity. Even arranging a load of TLG town sets to make a town requires creativity, and everyone would do it differently. I'd like some and wouldn't like others.

Come to think of it, part of the doubt is probably the question whether or not I think if I’m good enough. Is anybody really interested in my insignificant attempts in an ocean of MOCs, MODs, WIPs and TLG sets?

Yes, someone will be interested in your stuff.

[aol000xw]

To me, creating MOCs is all about finding a creative solutions for the challenges a certain model poses. Once I have finished a MOC (if it is ever finished), the satisfaction is in owning a functional model with the correct proportions of the real deal.

...

You pretend to stand by the above ideal however If the above sentence is true what do you care about what others do?

No matter how good you think your designs are, assuming that you are going to be copied is arrogant, and then are you vain enough to be worried about not getting recognition? Worst thing is being selfish enough to want the benefits of publishing MOCS like getting advice and learning but don't want to take any of the "risks". Not that considering there are "risks" is anything good either.

An are you going to give recognition for every single idea you already took from others, perhaps over the years be it consciously or not?

Summarizing: Bad boy.

[Andy D]

Art and science is all about standing on the shoulders of others. If no one shared anything the art would be very slow to advance, if at all. I for one am grateful for ll who share MOCs and WIPs, I get many ideas from these, I do not copy, but I may use one element of a design either directly or most likely a modified version. But it sparks my own imagination. I have not posted much lately mainly because of lack of ompletion of my own works, but I do plan to. I really appreciate the constructive criticism...

In the art world, C&C advances the art.

Andy D

[Meatman]

I can only imagine that you have some of the most amazing creations that no one has ever seen. Just kidding. Now if you do decide to ever share anything it will have to live up to the hype you created.

[Zimix]

As a newbee, I would suggest to try to keep your next MOC for yourself. You might get the answer yourself after a while, "for what I share my MOC?"

You maybe end up by sharing it, and if it is so, please share with us also what "pushed" you to do so...