The Real Indiana Jones

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Oh, yes, lots of them have been. There are several just by members here, in fact - The Real Indiana Jones has a whole series of projects based on history and myth from classical antiquity, for example, and has been resubmitting them all. I've seen other projects resubmitted by other Ideas members as well, sometimes with no changes at all, sometimes with minor ones, and sometimes with quite substantial ones. And I've even seen members of LEGO's Ideas team themselves support such projects and comment on them, at least once or twice expressing gladness that the project creators decided to resubmit them.

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I don't really see the point of resubmitting with no changes. If it took two years to get 500 votes, it won't do any better submitting it again.

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I don't really see the point of resubmitting with no changes. If it took two years to get 500 votes, it won't do any better submitting it again.

Perhaps, but some of them have already done as well or better in just a few weeks or months as they previously did in over a year. Also, one can try out new strategies for accruing votes and such, and outside factors can play a strong role. The Golden Girls project currently under review got the Staff Pick and coverage on NY local TV news, MSN, Time.com, Moviefone, E! Online, People, EW, The Mary Sue, Golden Girls Central, The Huffington Post, and any number of other places. And it's not just a matter of all those sites having been ready to promote a Golden Girls project the instant one appeared - not only was it posted about three weeks before The Huffington Post found it and promoted it, but it was actually the latest of (at least) three different Golden Girls projects on the site, and the other two are both still gathering votes even though they were posted before this one (and one of them is very similar to the one that got all that attention).

This clearly shows that a project or subject matter can go unnoticed on Ideas for a long time, but then find a sudden surge of attention if conditions are right. That gives a good reason to try again, even with a project that might have gotten only a few hundred votes before.

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Oh, yes, lots of them have been. There are several just by members here, in fact - The Real Indiana Jones has a whole series of projects based on history and myth from classical antiquity, for example, and has been resubmitting them all. I've seen other projects resubmitted by other Ideas members as well, sometimes with no changes at all, sometimes with minor ones, and sometimes with quite substantial ones. And I've even seen members of LEGO's Ideas team themselves support such projects and comment on them, at least once or twice expressing gladness that the project creators decided to resubmit them.

I don't really see the point of resubmitting with no changes. If it took two years to get 500 votes, it won't do any better submitting it again.

Perhaps, but some of them have already done as well or better in just a few weeks or months as they previously did in over a year. Also, one can try out new strategies for accruing votes and such, and outside factors can play a strong role. The Golden Girls project currently under review got the Staff Pick and coverage on NY local TV news, MSN, Time.com, Moviefone, E! Online, People, EW, The Mary Sue, Golden Girls Central, The Huffington Post, and any number of other places...

This clearly shows that a project or subject matter can go unnoticed on Ideas for a long time, but then find a sudden surge of attention if conditions are right. That gives a good reason to try again, even with a project that might have gotten only a few hundred votes before.

Hey, thanks for the honorable mention! That's cool.

Sorry I didn't have time to rework them and do new graphics. I might have repackaged it as one single $50 set, and removed a few obsolete parts, etc, etc, etc...

Plus, the other main difference for anyone who is resubmitting now is that most of the previous competitors have been deleted, so it is a new field!

P.S. - They also posted pics of "Wall-E" today! =D

Edited by The Real Indiana Jones

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I'm not absolutely certain, but I think it was submitted before that rule was in place. I think the rule about no packaging mock-ups came around the same time the whole platform transitioned from CUUSOO to Ideas, and this project was submitted shortly before that, in March of last year.

There are a slew of older, mostly expired projects scattered hither and yon across the site that were fully compliant with the rules when they were submitted, but which would be in violation of one rule or another if submitted today.

The "do not use a Lego Logo to in any way mock up or imply an official looking set" has been a hard rule since CuuSoo began. You used to be able to do a fake box so long as you kept the logo off of it. They more recently did away with fake boxes entirely. They don't want fan project proposals getting confused with actual sets. I'm kind of amazed that picture did not get deleted.

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The "do not use a Lego Logo to in any way mock up or imply an official looking set" has been a hard rule since CuuSoo began. You used to be able to do a fake box so long as you kept the logo off of it. They more recently did away with fake boxes entirely. They don't want fan project proposals getting confused with actual sets. I'm kind of amazed that picture did not get deleted.

I know they've always barred using the LEGO logo (unless it's as part of a project, of course, like a LEGO Store), but mockup boxes were indeed originally okay.

They haven't required changes to projects that were originally submitted user different rules, so lots of things that had packaging mockups (or otherwise violate rules instituted after submission, like not depicting LEGO brick constructions but instead just having photos or artwork of actual, non-LEGO objects) were allowed to stay. Of course, a lot (most?) of those projects have now expired, and it's only a matter of time before all of them do.

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It's on the Products page - seems like a page to showcase the official sets.. or something.

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...and the Exo-Suit is sold out. Never to be seen again.

Thats bad, i still don't have it.

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I don't really see the point of resubmitting with no changes. If it took two years to get 500 votes, it won't do any better submitting it again.

On one hand, there's some truth to this. On the other, you need to remember what Cuusoo/Ideas was two years ago.

A lot more people have Ideas accounts now so the likelihood of a "new" project making a bigger splash in its first few days is higher (assuming people are actually using those new accounts and aren't just one-offs to vote for the Twitter sensation of the day, never to return)

Also, from my experience and generally backed up by GlenBricker's stats, most projects used to get the majority of their lifetime support within days of being added to the site. Once you slipped off the first few pages of "new" projects, support dropped to a trickle. The site's interface just wasn't that good at promoting quality, older projects. Most people, it seems, have neither the time nor the patience to browse pages upon pages of older projects in the hopes of stumbling on something of high quality by random chance. I don't know that the site has really improved in this regard, but older, quality (as measured by the view to support ratio) projects have certainly languished due simply to a lack of visibility. If the algorithm for suggesting related projects (or even just random users themselves tweeting or blogging about a chance find) changed over time, a reposted project could certainly see a different result.

All that said, I decided back when they first announced the expiration policy that I wasn't going to repost any of my submissions. My LOTR Argonath made it about halfway, support wise, and a couple others made it above the 1K mark (and I thank everyone who supported me) but given the sorts (in both scale and subject matter) of kits Ideas is producing these days, I really don't see any of those old proposals making it past review even if they had the votes. I decided to just move on and I feel, for me and the projects in question, it was the right choice - others' mileage may vary.

Edited by ShaydDeGrai

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Yes, I agree. But then that is also the reason to make some changes. Ideas has moved on from cuusoo, it seems to get votes you really need to think about not only the subject, but also the photography / rendering, making sure everything is thought out well before submitting and so on. I don't necessarily mean changes to the models, but changes to the way they are portrayed.

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I would say zero

Sadly, I agree. They will never let a LEGO fan out-class them on one of their current themes.

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I suspect LEGO will never approve an Ideas LOTR/Hobbit project. Mostly because LOTR/Hobbit wasn't exactly a runaway success (especially not the latter run of LOTR with the pirate ship/black gate, the hobbit Pt 3 stuff and the big black tower) and because all the movies are no longer out there meaning any LOTR/Hobbit project has even less market now than they did back then.

I think LEGO should examine some of these IPs (like LOTR or Star Wars or Super Heroes or Disney) and if they know (because of license conditions or whatever) that an Ideas project is unlikely to happen, come out and say it.

Some guidelines on project size would also help.

A few bits of information for project creators could mean projects that wont get made (because of licenses or because of size) are less likely to be submitted to Ideas (which increases the chances of the projects that DO have a chance of becoming sets getting to 10k)

It may also lead to project creators changing their projects (e.g. submitting something smaller and therefore more likely to be made into a set).

I see many many projects on there that are just far too big to ever be a viable Ideas set (including a few that are "in review" right now) and if LEGO could get most of those off the site before they even start getting supporters, it will be much easier for people deciding what to support to pick things that are actually likely to get made into sets. LOTR alone has at least 50 projects on there that are far too big to be viable even ignoring any possible license stuff.

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(snip…)

A few bits of information for project creators could mean projects that wont get made (because of licenses or because of size) are less likely to be submitted to Ideas (which increases the chances of the projects that DO have a chance of becoming sets getting to 10k)

It may also lead to project creators changing their projects (e.g. submitting something smaller and therefore more likely to be made into a set).

(snip)

I remember chatting with Tim C. about this at a Lego convention couple of years ago. He emphasized that, while there were posted "rules" for potential projects (and things that violated the rules wouldn't get approved for posting in the first place), beyond that, anything was "possible." When I pressed him to distinguish between "possible" and "realistic" he both sidestepped the question initially and said that every review was a unique and complicated process involving many stakeholders within TLG. Eventually, however, he did point out a few things most followers of Cuusoo/Ideas already knew about what _statistically_ helped or hurt projects in the review process:

- Nearly all "successful" projects have had less than 500 pieces (the main exception to this is the Birds set which has about 575 or so (mostly small) parts and came out long after this conversation). This doesn't mean 500 is a magic number or that more than 500 parts dooms your proposal from day one, but historically proposals expected to be viable in the 300-500 part range have proven to be the most likely to pass review.

- More than two or three mini-figures is a tough sell unless the theme of the set really demands a specific cadre (e.g. Ghostbusters and Big Bang Theory) and has a significant non-minifigure build. Sidebar: looking to Cuusoo/Ideas for cheap battle packs? Don't hold your breath…

- Proposals for sets for which TLG already holds a license is an even tougher sell than asking for lots of mini-figures. Crowd-sourced ideas are a small fringe operation of TLG's organization and it simply doesn't have the clout to march into other, established sandboxes and start laying claim to territory. Again, technically it _could_ happen, but I got the impression that even the people running Ideas wouldn't expect to ever get approval to release a Star Wars set (for example) so long as there were still a Star Wars theme.

- Resurrecting an old theme, licensed or otherwise, is another uphill battle. If TLG let the theme/license lapse, they did so for a reason and people will recall that reason as part of the review. Tying your idea to a lapsed IP may actually prove to be more of a liability than an asset in the eyes of the reviewers as they have access to actual sales data and audience reaction at the time when the theme was cancelled potentially biasing their opinions.

- Tapping in to new IPs is a tricky game: other companies may hold exclusive licenses; the branding may not be compatible with TLG image even if the set itself is kid-safe; and, pop culture is fleeting and fickle. It takes a long time to get a set to market and "that cool movie" than opened last weekend and inspired your proposal may be long forgotten by the time you actually reach a review cycle (if you make it that far). Classic "cult" IPs are safer bets than trying to catch lightning as it's striking.

- New printings are minor speed-bumps, new parts are show stoppers. Although Cuusoo originally asked explicitly for new part proposals in its early days, TLG reversed this stance and years ago. Proposals just for new parts were removed outright and set proposals that included new parts were only allowed to stay if an acceptable version of the set could be built using existing parts

My take-away* from my conversation with Tim was that, to optimize your chances of passing review you should:

1) Keep sets in the 300-500 part range

2) Stick to generic, readily available parts

3) Avoid any past or present IP already licensed/controlled by TLG - focus on original or "timeless" subjects with broad appeal

4) Minimize the number of mini-figures needed to "sell" the set

5) Make the model as interesting as possible without relying on custom printing or stickers (you can add those later but make sure the form works on its own first)

Of course, to _get_ to the review stage in the first place, those above guidelines are not necessarily the best advice, but what's the point to getting to 10K if you really don't stand a change in the review cycle anyway?

* To be clear, these are _my impressions_ from talking to Tim coupled with some hindsight from past review results , _NOT_ official advice from TLG on how to pass a review. Tim repeatedly emphasized that anything that complied with the published rules was possible and he didn't want to discourage anyone from submitting anything just because history was suggesting it would be unlikely to get made.

Edited by ShaydDeGrai

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- Nearly all "successful" projects have had less than 500 pieces (the main exception to this is the Birds set which has about 575 or so (mostly small) parts and came out long after this conversation). This doesn't mean 500 is a magic number or that more than 500 parts dooms your proposal from day one, but historically proposals expected to be viable in the 300-500 part range have proven to be the most likely to pass review.

I don't think they will release a set with +700 pieces.

I just don't see it happening

Edited by Robert8

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Thats bad, i still don't have it.

The LEGO store here in Hamburg is having them up for bargain now. 25€ instead of 35€ if I remember correctly. They still had around 30 boxes laying around.

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My take-away* from my conversation with Tim was that, to optimize your chances of passing review you should:

1) Keep sets in the 300-500 part range

2) Stick to generic, readily available parts

3) Avoid any past or present IP already licensed/controlled by TLG - focus on original or "timeless" subjects with broad appeal

4) Minimize the number of mini-figures needed to "sell" the set

5) Make the model as interesting as possible without relying on custom printing or stickers (you can add those later but make sure the form works on its own first)

Of course, to _get_ to the review stage in the first place, those above guidelines are not necessarily the best advice, but what's the point to getting to 10K if you really don't stand a change in the review cycle anyway?

* To be clear, these are _my impressions_ from talking to Tim coupled with some hindsight from past review results , _NOT_ official advice from TLG on how to pass a review. Tim repeatedly emphasized that anything that complied with the published rules was possible and he didn't want to discourage anyone from submitting anything just because history was suggesting it would be unlikely to get made.

A great and in all likelihood highly accurate summary of what the real likely outcomes will be. I still suspect that there is room for a 1000-2000 piece CuuSoo set. But probably not a lot of such room. If or when we get it it will only be a set that they have rock solid pre existing sales data for. I hold out the examples of Modular Buildings and Technic as both are very much adult collector lines and both have had highly successful sold out fan designed sets released in the past within that size bracket. As I have said in the past they know not only how many actual customers they have for those two type products. They know exactly who they are and where they live.

I have one other correlate to Shady's point #2. Use common parts. Call it 2a, Use Modern Parts. Don't use parts from pre 2006, when they did their great mold purge. Ressurecting an old or retired or mothballed mold is an extensive undertaking. After the issues they had with the one old mold with the Exo-Suit they will probably seek to avoid doing so again for short run Ideas sets.

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A great and in all likelihood highly accurate summary of what the real likely outcomes will be. I still suspect that there is room for a 1000-2000 piece CuuSoo set. But probably not a lot of such room. If or when we get it it will only be a set that they have rock solid pre existing sales data for. I hold out the examples of Modular Buildings and Technic as both are very much adult collector lines and both have had highly successful sold out fan designed sets released in the past within that size bracket. As I have said in the past they know not only how many actual customers they have for those two type products. They know exactly who they are and where they live.

I think the natural history museum is a counter argument to your claim that a modular Ideas set would be made. Or do you have thoughts as to why the museum not getting made doesn't translate into modular sets being off-limits for Ideas? Was the museum too big even for a modular? Conflicting with other products? (isn't there a museum of some sort in the Scooby Doo line?) Wrong color scheme/subject matter/etc to work? Something else?

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I think the natural history museum is a counter argument to your claim that a modular Ideas set would be made. Or do you have thoughts as to why the museum not getting made doesn't translate into modular sets being off-limits for Ideas? Was the museum too big even for a modular? Conflicting with other products? (isn't there a museum of some sort in the Scooby Doo line?) Wrong color scheme/subject matter/etc to work? Something else?

We'll never know unless they give an explanation in the review video about why each set was rejected/approved.

But that's not going to happen.

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