LEGO Ideas Discussion

[dtomsen]

The Blacksmith looks nice enough but it has gone from sublime model to a simplified play set ?

 

I do understand the commercial aspects but the set should've been discarded during the review phase if it couldn't be realized even somewhat close to the original imo.

Edited January 1, 2021 by dtomsen

[adwind]

I don't think we're allowed to post leaked photos

[dtomsen]

3 minutes ago, adwind said:

I don't think we're allowed to post leaked photos

It's a rendered image used by Amazon.co.uk according to Brothers Brick.

Edited January 1, 2021 by dtomsen

[Modal]

I’m assuming the people complaining about the new blacksmith are the same that complained about barracuda bay? I think some people really want this darker vibe, but we know LEGO is always going to brighten it up a bit

I will admit though that this one is probably the most different between original-final than I’ve seen of an Ideas set so far. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Modal

[someguy827]

I for one don’t like it very much. It looks too clean, and doesn’t have the grit, wear and aging of something in those times that was so well captured by the original. The roof is the biggest offence to me. I knew that they would have to change it, but it’s so oversimplified, and the use of 2x2 wedge pieces and shields in such a uniform and boring way doesn’t work for me at all. Not sure why this the case, especially when sets like the old fishing store pull off a worn roof look so well.

16 minutes ago, Modal said:

 

I’m assuming the people complaining about the new blacksmith are the same that complained about barracuda bay? I think some people really want this darker vibe, but we know LEGO is always going to brighten it up a bit

 

Even though I was incredibly disappointed with what they did to Barracuda Bay, it works very well as a massive love letter to classic pirates, and I’m happy that fans of classic pirates got a massive set to celebrate their love of the theme. I’m not sure who this set is made for though, and I don’t think the alterations made to it are justified.

[Merlo]

54 minutes ago, dtomsen said:

The Blacksmith looks nice enough but it has gone from sublime model to a simplified play set ?

I do understand the commercial aspects but the set should've been discarded during the review phase if it couldn't be realized even somewhat close to the original imo. 

I agree but we've talked about this before and concluded that it only makes sense voting for an idea and not have much hope it will look like the submission.

 

26 minutes ago, Modal said:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the new blacksmith are the same that complained about barracuda bay? I think some people really want this darker vibe, but we know LEGO is always going to brighten it up a bit

I don't see it as a darker vibe at all, just not purposely silly. I don't know why it's like that TBH. Sure, I liked bright vibrant colors when I was three years old, but even as a kid a darker, more serious look would look much more "badass" to me.

 

3 minutes ago, someguy827 said:

Even though I was incredibly disappointed with what they did to Barracuda Bay, it works very well as a massive love letter to classic pirates, and I’m happy that fans of classic pirates got a massive set to celebrate their love of the theme. I’m not sure who this set is made for though, and I don’t think the alterations made to it are justified.

Agree 100 %. I found Barracuda Bay disappointing compared to the original (which had its faults as well and had entirely too much brown) BUT... the new Barracuda Bay is an amazing playset.

The new blacksmith looks great as far as I'm concerned, but I fully expected it to turn out like this, to go from something I'd surely buy because well... obvious reasons :) to something that I still dig but I wouldn't know what to do with it.

A blacksmith is not particularly inviting for play, unless it's a part of the greater castle line, which we don't have.

This rendition of it also wouldn't hugely impress as a display item.

So I'm at a loss what to do with it. There are more fun sets I'd buy for the children and better looking sets I'd buy for myself (I'm looking at you Gardens of Ninjago City).

So... not buy it? Buy it just to build it and then sell it? Meh.

[adwind]

I won't judge until I saw all the pictures, details and functions. I can only say that in most cases official sets works better to me than submissions and Barracuda Bay wasn't an exception so fingers crossed and waiting for official release. 

[koalayummies]

Blacksmith looks great. The roof and tree are both nicer looking designs with no disrespect to the designer, they still get appreciation for the overall look and feel and getting us a Castle set through Ideas. Also don't mind the omission of the Circle 90D 6x6 Roof Tiles; castle MOCers tend to SNOT their own ground and those pieces are rather large and of limited versatility. Can't wait to see more pictures.

[Modal]

I personally really like the aesthetic of it. I do wish they went with a more expensive and detailed version, but I also understand why they did it.

Hope there’s some kind of cozy interior, this will look great with a lighting kit.

[Lyichir]

I like the look of it. Personally I prefer brighter colors in general, and the new version seems to have adapted many of the details of the original submission without looking as much like it'd fall apart if you looked at it wrong.

I might have to see more pictures of it before I decide whether I want it or not, though. There's a lot on my wishlist in the new year and despite looking good this initial picture alone doesn't "wow" me the way Barracuda Bay did.

[Lord Insanity]

3 hours ago, Modal said:

I’m assuming the people complaining about the new blacksmith are the same that complained about barracuda bay? I think some people really want this darker vibe, but we know LEGO is always going to brighten it up a bit

I will admit though that this one is probably the most different between original-final than I’ve seen of an Ideas set so far. 

I think the Pirate Bay was massively more different from its original submission than the Blacksmith Shop.

With the Pirate Bay, I voted for the pirate trading port town that the original submission was.  Instead we got a lame shipwreck that just happens to have the same basic shape for some inexplicable reason.  The main reason to buy Barracuda Bay is for the awesome ship alternate build.  Even that is still a hair below the original Barracuda thanks to single sided sails and insufficient cannons to fill the gun deck.

The Blacksmith Shop on the other hand is still a really good blacksmith shop.  I actually think the roof is superior to the original submission.  The black, to dark blue, to regular blue, to sand green makes for an awesome weathered look that the original roof lacks.  Using the pentagonal tiles instead of rehashing the roof from the Old Fishing store is also quite nice looking.  It's not even down sized nearly as much as peoples reactions would seem to indicate.  The chimney is still 4x4.  The main roof peak is 24 studs long.  The whole set will overhang the typical 32x32 modular footprint.

The Blacksmith Shop is everything I wanted.  It is something that can be easily used in a medieval, pirate, or modern setting.  It is a better parts pack for building the pirate trading port town I wanted from Pirate Bay than the actual pirate set is! 

[CopperTablet]

On 12/27/2020 at 8:08 AM, MatthewRC said:

Sadly, the Caribbean Clipper is too similar to The Pirates of Barracuda Bay. So it won’t make the cut.

I disagree.  That's like saying 10278 Police Station is too similar to 10246 Detective's Office.   They're both Modular Buildings related to law enforcement, but the similarities end there, the fans of the theme would like both, and they both complement each other in a display.

[MatthewRC]

35 minutes ago, CopperTablet said:

I disagree.  That's like saying 10278 Police Station is too similar to 10246 Detective's Office.   They're both Modular Buildings related to law enforcement, but the similarities end there, the fans of the theme would like both, and they both complement each other in a display.

Alright, if you say so.

[Lord James]

The final blacksmith shop looks good; I just wonder whether it would have reached 10,000 supporters if this was the original version. The same could be said of most Lego sets that are made as, you know, children's toys.

[Totoro]

1 hour ago, Lord James said:

The final blacksmith shop looks good; I just wonder whether it would have reached 10,000 supporters if this was the original version. The same could be said of most Lego sets that are made as, you know, children's toys.

I voted for the original blacksmith, but absolutely would not have voted for the revised version. 

It's gone from looking actually medieval, to looking like a fake Disneyland version. This is by far the most disappointed I've been in the change from the original. I can't even work out who it will appeal to any more. 

[Aanchir]

Are y'all really paying attention to the details of these images at all? The overall structure/layout of the two models is almost exactly the same, other than swapping the position of the dormer and chimney and adding an additional door to the left of the chimney and shop window.

And besides the updated roof texture and curvature, nearly every cosmetic update I see is one that INCREASES the complexity and level of detail of the original. It's fine to prefer the older design if dark, desaturated color palettes and ramshackle-looking roofs are that important to you — but that's no reason to act like those tastes are inherently more "mature", "serious", or "realistic" than those of builders who recognize that there are more ways to make a color scheme effective and realistic than just making them as drab as possible, and that there's more to a model's complexity and detail than just how messy or chaotic you can make the patterns or textures.

6 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

I think the Pirate Bay was massively more different from its original submission than the Blacksmith Shop.

With the Pirate Bay, I voted for the pirate trading port town that the original submission was.  Instead we got a lame shipwreck that just happens to have the same basic shape for some inexplicable reason.

The main reason to buy Barracuda Bay is for the awesome ship alternate build.  Even that is still a hair below the original Barracuda thanks to single sided sails and insufficient cannons to fill the gun deck.

You realize that the Pirate Bay was ALWAYS supposed to represent a hideout built out of wrecked ships, right? Why did you think that the window of the captain's cabin was built at an angle similar to that on an actual ship, or that parts of the pier were in the shape of ship hulls? The only thing Barracuda Bay changed was making it clearer that all of those parts of the design were from one ship, and making the angles of walls more closely resemble the parts of the ship they'd been built from (to the point that you can re-assemble the ship by putting the different parts of the hideout back in their original positions).

Obviously, you don't have to like those changes if the ramshackle nature of the build was what you cared about most. But the project creator and many fans of both the project and set have clearly had no trouble seeing the final set as a refined/"elevated" (I think that's the word the project creator used?) version of his original MOC, and the pics that were shared of the development process make the continuity between both the concept and layout of the two models fairly obvious. So I'm not sure why people are still acting like those changes between the original MOC and final set amount to some sort of wholesale rejection of everything the original MOC represented.

2 hours ago, Totoro said:

I voted for the original blacksmith, but absolutely would not have voted for the revised version. 

It's gone from looking actually medieval, to looking like a fake Disneyland version. This is by far the most disappointed I've been in the change from the original. I can't even work out who it will appeal to any more. 

How does the proposal look "actually medieval"? Do you somehow believe that bright colors didn't exist in medieval times — even on plants and trees? Or that the same medieval people who were able to bring both masonry and half-timbered construction to such a celebrated level of beauty and elegance were simultaneously some sort of uncouth barbarians who didn't know how to cut slate into shingles of consistent shapes or lay them out in straight lines?

There's nothing "realistic" about looking at the dilapidated ruins of medieval buildings hundreds of years later that and assuming that such a dreary, drab-looking state of decay is exactly how those buildings would have looked when they were brand-new. That's just sloppy historical revisionism — the same sort which long convinced so many historians that Greek temples and statuary were all clad in spotless white marble.

[dr_spock]

Brighter colors could be in continuity with ye old fan designed blacksmith shop of nearly 19 years ago. 

Wonder how much this one was altered from the original design submission. 

[Lord Insanity]

20 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

You realize that the Pirate Bay was ALWAYS supposed to represent a hideout built out of wrecked ships, right? Why did you think that the window of the captain's cabin was built at an angle similar to that on an actual ship, or that parts of the pier were in the shape of ship hulls? The only thing Barracuda Bay changed was making it clearer that all of those parts of the design were from one ship, and making the angles of walls more closely resemble the parts of the ship they'd been built from (to the point that you can re-assemble the ship by putting the different parts of the hideout back in their original positions).

Obviously, you don't have to like those changes if the ramshackle nature of the build was what you cared about most. But the project creator and many fans of both the project and set have clearly had no trouble seeing the final set as a refined/"elevated" (I think that's the word the project creator used?) version of his original MOC, and the pics that were shared of the development process make the continuity between both the concept and layout of the two models fairly obvious. So I'm not sure why people are still acting like those changes between the original MOC and final set amount to some sort of wholesale rejection of everything the original MOC represented.

The whole "built using parts of wrecked ships" aesthetic of a pirate shanty town is exactly what I voted for.  Turning that into a single shipwreck makes the entire layout nonsensical.  How did they get the parts into those positions if they are a single shipwreck?  If it is a pirate port town built up over many years, then taking parts from ships that are no longer seaworthy and repurposing them into buildings makes sense.

Don't misunderstand, I still think the final Barracuda Bay set is one of the best pirate sets Lego has made.  However for totally different reasons then why I voted for Pirate Bay.  With Pirate Bay it was all about the makeshift town that evolved over time.  With Barracuda Bay it is all about the single pirate ship that happens to leave an island foundation for the thing we voted for in the first place.

The Blacksmith Shop suffers none of that.  Both the original and final are highly detailed blacksmith shops.  I think you nailed it in the Historic Themes thread.  The original submission was "gothic horror" fantasy styled and the final product is "fairy tale" fantasy styled.  That change doesn't bother me as I can use the building in the same way as I had originally intended.

[Grover]

4 minutes ago, Lord Insanity said:

The whole "built using parts of wrecked ships" aesthetic of a pirate shanty town is exactly what I voted for.  Turning that into a single shipwreck makes the entire layout nonsensical.  How did they get the parts into those positions if they are a single shipwreck?  If it is a pirate port town built up over many years, then taking parts from ships that are no longer seaworthy and repurposing them into buildings makes sense.

Don't misunderstand, I still think the final Barracuda Bay set is one of the best pirate sets Lego has made.  However for totally different reasons then why I voted for Pirate Bay.  With Pirate Bay it was all about the makeshift town that evolved over time.  With Barracuda Bay it is all about the single pirate ship that happens to leave an island foundation for the thing we voted for in the first place.

The Blacksmith Shop suffers none of that.  Both the original and final are highly detailed blacksmith shops.  I think you nailed it in the Historic Themes thread.  The original submission was "gothic horror" fantasy styled and the final product is "fairy tale" fantasy styled.  That change doesn't bother me as I can use the building in the same way as I had originally intended.

I think that the Barracude Bay set is better and more true to the classic pirate theme than the Blacksmith shop is to classic castle.  The blacksmith shop was always destined to be changed a lot since it was a digital submission with no source material extant (a la Sesame Street).  I'm worried the blacksmith shop will miss the mark of enticing classic castle fans and the people who wanted the 'gothic' feel of the original submission and then TLG will take it as a signal that castle is not a popular theme.  I'm hoping that the final product will really draw people in and it will be popular.  I'm also kind of disappointed in the lack of real medieval feel, since, as you say, it could easily be a 'pirate' shop that could extend into the 19th century.  I was hoping I'd get a parts pack for my medieval builds with barracuda bay, and didn't get it.  I hope the blacksmith shop is not just a nice parts pack.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Grover

[icm]

For what it's worth, I've tried to make "production versions" of the Pirate Bay submission in Studio aiming for nominal $100, $200, and $300 price points without using the vintage small ship hulls or the huge raised baseplate, while still retaining everything I consider an essential play feature or landscape feature in the original, and it's actually really, really hard.  I don't blame the set designers for deciding to do something quite a bit different, as long as they got permission from the fan designer (which they did).  The final product of Barracuda Bay is now the single Lego set I have spent the most money on, ever.  I bought a copy for myself and then bought another copy for my brother for Christmas.

[tomorrowboy]

 

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

if the ramshackle nature of the build was what you cared about most

Yeah, it is. 

Was the Old Fishing Store not popular? It's "drab" and "ramshackle" and I love it and would love to see other sets with a similar aesthetic. 

[Lucarex]

The revised building aesthetic certainly takes some getting used to, and that’s being kind.

Which I’m trying to be here despite my gut feeling. I’m ok with the structure and actually really like details such as the apple tree/well and the forge. I guess it’ll make a nice diorama for a surplus of minifigs from the last Castle theme. 

But jeez, that roof is a step too far. The blue Nexo shields are historically inaccurate and what are those sand green bits supposed to be, lichen or moss? Very lazy execution and there’s no excuse really. For me, the Old Fishing Store remains the gold standard in how to faithfully recreate from concept to final set, but it’s starting to look like an exception.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Lucarex

[MAB]

11 hours ago, Lord James said:

The final blacksmith shop looks good; I just wonder whether it would have reached 10,000 supporters if this was the original version. The same could be said of most Lego sets that are made as, you know, children's toys.

I also think it looks good, at least parts of it. I would have preferred more dark brown to keep a similar vibe, plus dark brown is harder to find than reddish brown. I'm fine with the size and the roof, although I'd replace the green with a darker blue and will probably swap out the lighter blue too. 

I'm not sure the "kid's toy" argument works any more for these sets since they seem to be going for 16+ and 18+ these days so they are not kids toys.

Just now, Lucarex said:

 

But jeez, that roof is a step too far. The Nexo shields are historically inaccurate and what are those sand green bits supposed to be, lichen or moss? Very lazy recreation and there’s no excuse really. For me, the Old Fishing Store remains the gold standard in how to faithfully recreate from concept to final set, but it’s starting to look like an exception.

The old fishing store submission was closer to a normal finished set though, so the smaller number of changes make sense there.

[Lucarex]

8 minutes ago, MAB said:

I'm not sure the "kid's toy" argument works any more for these sets since they seem to be going for 16+ and 18+ these days so they are not kids toys.

9 minutes ago, Lucarex said:

 

 But jeez, that roof is a step too far. The Nexo shields are historically inaccurate and what are those sand green bits supposed to be, lichen or moss? Very lazy recreation and there’s no excuse really. For me, the Old Fishing Store remains the gold standard in how to faithfully recreate from concept to final set, but it’s starting to look like an exception.

The old fishing store submission was closer to a normal finished set though, so the smaller number of changes make sense there.

I agree, OFS was a superior submission in all aspects, but it still required the assigned design team to do some work and stay faithful whilst not compromising on the overall look. 

The final interior dive shop for example was also excellently recreated and retains a lot of kid play value (so I’m not sure I agree with your general IDEAS target age comments) and the feel of a modular series set. It’s a hard act to follow.

I think the key difference here with the medieval blacksmith house is you’ll need to mod in the first place in order just to get it up to spec rather than “enhance”.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Lucarex

[Wesley D]

I don't think I'll be buying this Medieval Blacksmith. Where a lot of fans think the official build differs to much from the original submission, I think it's too alike.

I have voted for the blacksmith on Ideas because I really long for a castle set, but I hoped the LEGO designers would change the project fundamentaly. I can understand some think the result is too polished, I think the finishing is fine, but I was hoping for a complete redesign. Just like how the Pirate Bay became Pirates of Barracuda Bay.

I still consider the building too big and was rather hoping for a small medieval 'village' of 2 houses and scenery, filled with references to classic castle.

The blacksmith how it's leaked feels to me more like a static display model than a playfull set that triggers my imagination. Another LEGO Ideas building, the Old Fishing Store, did both for me and captured my heart right away.

I continue looking forward to a castle or a small medieval village in the future!