The Real Indiana Jones

LEGO Ideas Discussion

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Personally, I think it would be better if TLG would give some sort of feedback (where possible) as to why they have declined it. That could possibly cut down on some of the negativity.

They did give feedback on that, after the previous review (the one where they approved nothing, despite having the largest review batch to date); they just weren't specific about which reasons applied to which projects.

The problem is that they can't give all the reasons, at least not for the licensed projects. Sometimes terms of an existing legal agreement prevent them from disclosing anything. Other times, there may not even be an agreement in place, but they may feel it prudent not to disclose any information that would make it hard to work with a company in the future.

And if they can't do that, it's hard to justify releasing any information, even on non-licensed projects, since having partial info available on why a non-licensed project was declined might allow people to make inferences about the reason a licensed project in the same batch was declined.

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Back in the CUUSOO days it seems like they explained why things didn't pass review (i.e. the Winchester). IIRC, that's where the guidelines first originated. Of course, they didn't batch-review things then, either. Seems like once they put things into review deadlines and batches they stopped giving the whys and whynots.

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They did originally give explanations, but stopped a while ago, though it was after they began batch-reviewing projects.

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Maybe if a project is rejected because it is too close to a number of the products that the LEGO Group already has today or has plans for the near future, they don't want inadvertently to let their competition know what they have in their product plans by publicly announcing those reasons.

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... Birds, which is a set I think might have been more admired than actually purchased (I'm very sorry to say I haven't gotten it myself yet, and I know it's sold out from LEGO, though I'm hopeful I may be able to pick it up elsewhere).

Man, it's taken me too long (over a year since it was released; I should know better than to ever wait that long to pick up an Ideas set I want, after the Curiosity Rover debacle), but I'm glad to be able to say I finally picked up Birds yesterday - the last copy left on the shelf at a nearby TRU. I'm looking forward to putting it together and having it on display a while, though it'll eventually come apart.

I now have Hayabusa, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Exo Suit (x2), Research Institute, Birds, and Doctor Who. I'd love to have all the others (just as I'd love to have pretty much any LEGO set in general), but Curiosity is the only discontinued one I'm really sore about missing out on (though the still-available WALL•E is a high priority for me, and I'll be upset if I miss that one as well), so I think I'm doing okay.

I'm very much looking forward to getting WALL•E, the Maze, and Adventure Time, and seeing what else the future brings.

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So, here's a question I'll throw out there to see what people's perspectives are on it: Do non-minifig-scale submissions stand a better chance in review? The Maze is the thirteenth Ideas/CUUSOO set overall, and the seventh to be at a scale other than the "standard." The Caterham and Adventure Time figures, assuming the final products are pretty close to the submissions, would bring the score up to nine. Since the vast majority of regular LEGO sets are minifig scale, I wonder if going against that might improve the odds that one's submission is something TLG's own designers might not have thought of already. (Not guaranteed, of course, just more likely.) Thoughts?

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So, here's a question I'll throw out there to see what people's perspectives are on it: Do non-minifig-scale submissions stand a better chance in review? The Maze is the thirteenth Ideas/CUUSOO set overall, and the seventh to be at a scale other than the "standard." The Caterham and Adventure Time figures, assuming the final products are pretty close to the submissions, would bring the score up to nine. Since the vast majority of regular LEGO sets are minifig scale, I wonder if going against that might improve the odds that one's submission is something TLG's own designers might not have thought of already. (Not guaranteed, of course, just more likely.) Thoughts?

At the very least, I think there are a lot of factors that make a non-minifig-scale model likely to be better. For character-based licensed projects, minifig-scale models are often limited by the inability to create new molds, which can severely impact the recognizability of a character. It's also a tricky sort of scale when it comes to certain subject matter—it makes it hard to get adequate detail on something that's too small, and can make subject matter that's too large totally unfeasible for a retail set. In general, breaking free of the constraints of minifigure scale allows you to select the optimal scale for the subject in question. And if we ever get an Ideas set based on an existing license, I think one that's NOT minifigure scale would have a much better chance than one that IS, since it's much less likely to overlap with Lego's existing plans for the theme (the main exception might be Star Wars, which already features models at a wide variety of different scales on a regular basis).

That said, if you can make a model in minifigure scale and do it really well, I think it'd probably have an edge over a similar model that's a different scale in almost every case. Minifigures are a huge selling point for Lego, so a model that includes minifigures is almost certainly going to have a competitive edge over one that doesn't, particularly in the case of licensed themes that are popular in no small part due to their characters. I doubt the Ecto-1 or Delorean Time Machine sets would have sold nearly as well if they had been models of the cars without the iconic characters from their respective brands, even if a lack of minifigures allowed for a larger scale with more accuracy to the actual film props.

Edited by Lyichir

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At the very least, I think there are a lot of factors that make a non-minifig-scale model likely to be better. For character-based licensed projects, minifig-scale models are often limited by the inability to create new molds, which can severely impact the recognizability of a character. It's also a tricky sort of scale when it comes to certain subject matter—it makes it hard to get adequate detail on something that's too small, and can make subject matter that's too large totally unfeasible for a retail set. In general, breaking free of the constraints of minifigure scale allows you to select the optimal scale for the subject in question. And if we ever get an Ideas set based on an existing license, I think one that's NOT minifigure scale would have a much better chance than one that IS, since it's much less likely to overlap with Lego's existing plans for the theme (the main exception might be Star Wars, which already features models at a wide variety of different scales on a regular basis).

That said, if you can make a model in minifigure scale and do it really well, I think it'd probably have an edge over a similar model that's a different scale in almost every case. Minifigures are a huge selling point for Lego, so a model that includes minifigures is almost certainly going to have a competitive edge over one that doesn't, particularly in the case of licensed themes that are popular in no small part due to their characters. I doubt the Ecto-1 or Delorean Time Machine sets would have sold nearly as well if they had been models of the cars without the iconic characters from their respective brands, even if a lack of minifigures allowed for a larger scale with more accuracy to the actual film props.

I was disappointed to find no LEGO controllable BB-8 droid for Christmas 2015, albeit the Sphero product was a logical development of their previous sphere product so this cornered the market. I decided that since the LEGO Technic theme and Power Functions system has the capability, I ought to have a go. Project Blog here. Picture gallery here. If the LEGO company prides itself in the technical capability of its products then this is one challenge it should nail.

BB-8 is a particular challenge when it comes to scale. There is a minifig with 2 pieces so the only function is to turn the head manually, so a non-minifig-scale model would definitely be better. A few people have made BB-8 droids between Miniland scale and 1/4 scale and there is one rolling one that uses a 2-piece sphere like the casing of a few previous sets and should make the cut for review within a week. A larger scale allows me to put in the technical functionality but full-size would not be feasible for a set. I chose about 40% scale initially but increased to half-size to improve the ability to roll. A larger scale also brings the responsibility to have the tools integral to the shell rather than any being added on from outside by the user. So far I have the main drive function tested (

) and I have started testing the steering function; it can turn with about 0.5 metre radius. The magnetic head attachment and head control functions are to follow.

In terms of how this fits with LEGO Ideas:

- Technic projects may struggle to get support, partly because the user-base is smaller and the model themes are not usually as familiar as movie or TV themes. The Maze might be about as good as it gets.

- A project in an existing franchise theme (in this case Star Wars) may struggle if it clashes with TLG's plans within that theme. I guess TLG did not have plans to release a large controllable BB-8 droid yet, though I suppose someone at TLG has probably had a go at making one; it's a great challenge after all.

- The need to avoid modifying parts has been a good part of the challenge. It means there is no large sphere piece, nor even a segment, so it needed a composite modular arrangement that is not quite spherical. This in turn means allowance has to be made for the head to run on an uneven surface; it has a self-levelling mechanism with large pads for now. The magnets are more difficult because the traditional train and M-Tron magnets are no longer produced for safety reasons. Magnets must be encased in a piece too large to swallow, so I will do that. I consider that if I have accounted for the safety needs of the product then TLG would honour my effort. I know TLG make a fair few changes to the projects they approve so I expect this to be one such area. We need a new magnetic functionality anyway.

- I considered the business case. When finished, the model will have similar functionality and price point to Volvo Loader set 42030 i.e. £170 with 4 motorized functions and some minor functions, so it would be feasible as a retail set. The minor functions will be the opening of doors and the deployment of tools from the shell. So far I have done the flame tool for the "Thumbs Up" scene but others are on the way (map drawer, cables etc.).

- I realise that quite a few people have been put off voting for projects that TLG would not take beyond the review stage but for the BB-8 project I really need those votes. It is a huge struggle to generate interest; whilst a growing project gives me something new to say each week with the updates, a level of functionality and video evidence is needed for some people to be convinced - LEGO fans can be a sceptical lot! I have already posted on some Star Wars groups to appeal to a wider audience beyond the LEGO community. I want TLG to have a good look at my Technic BB-8 and decide to actively discard a project that demonstrates the technical capability of their product.

A ready-made BB-8 droid just wouldn't satisfy me. I wanted to make a functional BB-8 droid that would be a feasible set and would meet the LEGO company's values to teach the builder about how it works as well as providing play value.

The Technic theme has generally stuck to the standard vehicle themes of car, truck, aircraft, farm machinery and construction plant, with the odd robot thrown in. I hope BB-8 would be an item of interest alongside those, branching out into a more unusual territory ans perhaps appealing to a wider audience. Perhaps more animal-motion sets might also be produced in future and I would like to encourage that.

Please would you support the project here.

Thanks,

Mark

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I was disappointed to find no LEGO controllable BB-8 droid for Christmas 2015, albeit the Sphero product was a logical development of their previous sphere product so this cornered the market. I decided that since the LEGO Technic theme and Power Functions system has the capability, I ought to have a go. Project Blog here. Picture gallery here. If the LEGO company prides itself in the technical capability of its products then this is one challenge it should nail.

Your BB-8 looks fantastic! It's awesome that you were able to create a sturdy spherical shape using so many non-spherical Technic elements, and even incorporate some of BB-8's gadgets.

The big sticking point is still the magnet problem. The main LEGO-compatible magnet piece that is still in use today is the train buffer magnet. However, I realize it might not be strong enough. The other working Wall-E project on LEGO Ideas uses the classic magnets from the 90s, but as you seem to be aware, those magnets are no longer usable in LEGO sets for safety reasons (and I'm not even sure if they'd be strong enough for a model as rugged as yours anyway).

I don't know if any working BB-8 project on LEGO Ideas will truly be viable until the magnet problem is solved. It is true that LEGO does make changes to LEGO Ideas projects during development and even, with the Doctor Who project, was able to introduce new molds by working them into the design budget for another theme (LEGO Dimensions). However, those new molds were purely cosmetic. If they had not been created, the set could hypothetically have used existing parts, and in fact, the original proposal DID use only existing molds. I do not think the LEGO Group would approve a project that fundamentally depends on new molds to function as advertised.

However, I believe your BB-8 model is closer to being a viable LEGO product than any other of its kind. And I agree with you that Technic models are far too often based on "real life" vehicles without much of a sense of fantasy. I have supported your project and hope that between now and the project reaching review a solution to the magnet problem presents itself!

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Looks like Rolling BB-8 hit 10k.

If I get 10k by May, head to head we go! :laugh:

Are you promoting you project on social media?

Otherwise, it will get the 10000 supporters on May........................ 2018

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Are you promoting you project on social media?

Otherwise, it will get the 10000 supporters on May........................ 2018

I'm trying!! :tongue:

What other projects have hit 10K so far? Jedi Temple, the Particle Accelerator, BB-8..?

Edited by CM4Sci

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They stopped for whatever reason. I talked to some staff and they said they hadn't forgotten about it but they've got events to focus on this week.

"They"? "Staff"? You have a team working for you to promote Ideas projects?

Edited by Blondie-Wan

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"They"? "Staff"? You have a team working for you to promote Ideas projects?

I think he's talking about the roblox people. They promoted the project some a few weeks back.

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I think he's talking about the roblox people. They promoted the project some a few weeks back.

Yep, exactly. :wink:

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Ah, gotcha! Sorry, my mistake - I don't know why that didn't occur to me, given that I think that's how the chosen Minecraft project got so much support so quickly.

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I'm trying!! :tongue:

What other projects have hit 10K so far? Jedi Temple, the Particle Accelerator, BB-8..?

Which is your project?

Anyhow you can forget about Jedi Temple and BB-8 -- like others have suggested in this thread, all pre-existing license IDEAS projects should be canned, because they contravene the standard terms of the license agreement (preventing third parties from using/profiting from the license)

Edited by Another Brick In The Wall

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Ah, gotcha! Sorry, my mistake - I don't know why that didn't occur to me, given that I think that's how the chosen Minecraft project got so much support so quickly.

Yeah I'm sure having a fanbase of millions helps! Lego (millions) + Minecraft (millions) = lots of support. Plus lets be honest Minecraft at its core is a pretty nifty LDD that you can walk around and interact with... Then just add zombies... FTW!

If you don't have any established fanbase (like me) its a bit of a lottery - I find it fascinating which of my projects are preferred over others... particularly as they are of a similar theme... I know that my favourites would naturally different from other peoples... but still - it is interesting to me... particularly with respect to how much time I spent with some compared to others :D

Edited by nine09nueve

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Yeah I'm sure having a fanbase of millions helps! Lego (millions) + Minecraft (millions) = lots of support. Plus lets be honest Minecraft at its core is a pretty nifty LDD that you can walk around and interact with... Then just add zombies... FTW!

If you don't have any established fanbase (like me) its a bit of a lottery - I find it fascinating which of my projects are preferred over others... particularly as they are of a similar theme... I know that my favourites would naturally different from other peoples... but still - it is interesting to me... particularly with respect to how much time I spent with some compared to others :D

Yeah, ROBLOX is basically the same concept, but with more shapes than a square and a pixelated art style. :tongue:

Fanbases do help a lot! They put a banner on their site for about an hour and I got to 1800 in about that time.

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Are you promoting you project on social media?

Otherwise, it will get the 10000 supporters on May........................ 2018

Sorry I meant May 2017

Maybe you could try also on facebook groups, twitter, etc...

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Anyhow you can forget about Jedi Temple and BB-8 -- like others have suggested in this thread, all pre-existing license IDEAS projects should be canned, because they contravene the standard terms of the license agreement (preventing third parties from using/profiting from the license)

We don't know that for sure. It's certainly possible, given that so far, several projects have made it to review that are based on existing licenses, and every one has been declined. However, every single one of them had at least one obvious obstacle to approval besides just being based on an existing license. It's conceivable some of them might have been approved if they were smaller, or weren't already under internal development, or conflicting with some other licensee's rights.

Moreover, even if the terms for some of their licensed themes do explicitly prohibit additional sets coming through the Ideas program, that doesn't mean they all do - for example, their DC license might prohibit it, but their Star Wars license might not. Even if that's the case, though, they might not be able to allow Star Wars projects while disallowing DC ones because that would then publicly reveal something about the different terms of their DC license, and any disclosure of those terms would likely itself be a violation of the terms. Hence, they continue accepting submissions in all their existing licensed themes, since they can then just decline the ones that are outright prohibited while giving serious consideration to the ones that aren't.

We really have no way of knowing which licensed themes might be completely out of the question for Ideas projects, and which are actually real possibilities - at least, not yet.

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...licensed themes...

Your post exactly sums up the situation, and why Ideas doesn't prohibit any licensed IP projects or explain why each was declined. Licensing agreements include all sorts of strange clauses, among them often an agreement that does not allow publishing details of said agreement. :wacko:

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In my experience as an attorney, an "exclusive license" works both ways. The reason why MegaBlocks cannot design, manufacture and market Star Wars construction toys is the same reason anybody else from outside TLG cannot design, manufacture and market Star Wars construction toys. In such cases, exclusivity protects the licensor as much as it protects the licensee.

At this point you may be inclined to argue that TLG has the final say on the design and holds all rights to the final product. The counter argument to this is that 3 per cent commission (or whatever its) IDEAS projects earn for the designer may be interpreted as a royalty fee (courts take a "substance over form" approach to such matters) in which case it breaches the terms of a non-transferable license (trust me, they are all non-transferable). In any case, it is highly unlikely TLG could support a claim they made "substantial contribution" to the product design.

Each SW LEGO product also requires the approval of somebody at Disney so there's also that to consider.

Edited by Another Brick In The Wall

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Your ideas set doesn't get through? Blame disney!

Edited by Pedguin

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Ugh - totally ignore what I said on: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=105015&st=150#entry2511060

And I totally agree with LDD sets that look like they've been built by a 6 year old... it IS meant to be a 13+ site after all. But even if a genuine project (by that I mean one that isn't cashing in on the success of a previous high supported set say) isn't "good" by whatever standard it is judged... so what? Maybe that will inspire someone else on Ideas to build something else... and then in turn it will inspire someone else etc.

I have just read the description to this: Lego Spacewalk/EVA and I quote:

"I could probably make this in real life to get the pieces I want and a higher quality photo but I can't be bothered."

Wow... way to go LegoIDEAS for encouraging people to strive for the highest of standards! :D

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