LEGO Ideas Discussion

[Sven F]

There are five currently readily available, actually - Ghostbusters, Birds, The Big Bang Theory, WALL•E, and Doctor Who.

Birds are retired in Europe as of about a month ago.

[BirdOPrey5]

All of the thousands of projects? It takes them a good while to evaluate each of the handful of projects that do make it to 10k votes each period. There's no way they could fully evaluate each and every single thing that gets submitted. They'd have to have a dedicated team of hundreds of people just for LEGO Ideas.

Sure they could. It takes me less than 10 minutes a day to look at any new projects that day. I'd say on any given day at least half can be immediately thrown out, the rest may require a deeper look. But in short order a couple people can easily determine if anything submitted is worth serious evaluation- the vast majority of things will not get that far.

[LegoFjotten]

But they aren't looking for Ideas, are they?

I do think they are looking for fresh ideas. It's just that most of the submissions are not fresh ideas, but MOCs or wishlist products for existing licenses.

[Blondie-Wan]

Sure they could. It takes me less than 10 minutes a day to look at any new projects that day. I'd say on any given day at least half can be immediately thrown out, the rest may require a deeper look. But in short order a couple people can easily determine if anything submitted is worth serious evaluation- the vast majority of things will not get that far.

Their evaluation consists of a lot more than merely looking at something. They have to try to recreate it or do alternate builds for it, to see if they can deliver a set with a satisfying building experience. They have to evaluate all the possible parts assortments for it to see how they might line up with their overall production capacity, their plans for other sets they're going to produce at the same time, that build experience they want to deliver, etc. If it uses a licensed property, they have to see if the rights are even available, and if so, they have to negotiate terms with the rightsholders to see if they can reach an agreement that will be mutually beneficial. They also have to evaluate the property itself to decide whether it's a good brand fit for LEGO. They have to evaluate the sales potential of the product (and do so for each of the various price ranges that voters indicated they thought it would sell for). They have to consult with other LEGO departments to see whether the project will duplicate their efforts, or mesh well with them, or neither. They have to make a whole bunch of other decisions like this. All of these things take time.

Birds are retired in Europe as of about a month ago.

I see it's sold out at the U.S. Shop at Home as well, but it's still available in stores here.

I saw that gif on facebook

I don't recall them promoting the line in this way before

At least it means LEGO Ideas is not going anywhere

I'm seeing a variation of it, along with the words "We're looking for creative and original ideas ... ones that start from scratch like Exo-Suit, Birds, and Maze." That sounds to me like they're trying to subtly, gently but firmly encourage users to submit more projects that aren't based on entertainment property licenses, and/or fewer ones that are.

That's perhaps unsurprising, given that such a huge number of the projects that have made it into each of the last several review batches are based on movies, TV shows and whatnot.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Blondie-Wan

[Blondie-Wan]

(n/m)

Edited December 26, 2015 by Blondie-Wan

[x105Black]

People could submit their Ideas based on licenses in a non-licensed way. If it's a good set, and not completely reliant on licensing, then it could have a higher chance of acceptance.

So if someone had a Thundercats set idea, they could swap it out with Chima, or a generic non-licensed theme.

Of course, most Ideas based on a license are very heavily reliant on the license, so I don't think this would be likely.

Even still, I'd buy a LEGO set based on a generic Elf Hero about as fast as I would buy a set based on The Legend of Zelda.

[Brickadier General]

I saw that gif on facebook

I don't recall them promoting the line in this way before

At least it means LEGO Ideas is not going anywhere

Maybe they're hoping to take it in another direction. I haven't seen that ad until recently, but TLG has been advertising LEGO Ideas in magazines like BrickJournal for some time now.

Sure they could. It takes me less than 10 minutes a day to look at any new projects that day. I'd say on any given day at least half can be immediately thrown out, the rest may require a deeper look. But in short order a couple people can easily determine if anything submitted is worth serious evaluation- the vast majority of things will not get that far.

This is an issue with most crowdsourcing websites. If you go to KickStarter, you will find tons of failed projects - Many of these have poor presentation and/or vague goals. With LEGO Ideas, I'm guessing the issue is time. They are already analyzing every project that comes in within a few key areas (photo quality, appropriateness of content, etc). I think outright evaluating the quality of a build or likelihood of its viability as a product is somewhat of a touchy subject - If they start rejecting submissions based on such criteria it might discourage users. The voting process is the key "filtration system" so that staff can focus on scrutinizing the most serious contenders.

The one thing that I do think they could reject outright would be projects that are simply too large to be viable, such as the huge dioramas that have often reached 10,000 supporters. Size should definitely be a factor in the approval process.

I'm seeing a variation of it, along with the words "We're looking for creative and original ideas ... ones that start from scratch like Exo-Suit, Birds, and Maze." That sounds to me like they're trying to subtly, gently but firmly encourage users to submit more projects that aren't based on entertainment property licenses, and/or fewer ones that are.

That's perhaps unsurprising, given that such a huge number of the projects that have made it into each of the last several review batches are based on movies, TV shows and whatnot.

Creating original ideas that people are going to flock to is very, very difficult. With Ideas, I think support is dependent on reaching a target audience. With licensed stuff you have established (sometimes very huge) target audiences. This is why they tend to do so well. While Birds, the marble maze and Exo-Suit are not licensed, they were familiar enough to people to have established target audiences. Birds was especially popular with bird watchers and nature enthusiasts in general. The "Labyrinth" marble maze was based off of a pre-existing game which has been around for several years. This would have appealed to anyone who had previously owned one, as well as board game/puzzle fans. Exo-Suit is probably the most original of the group. But even with that, it was framed in the context of Classic Space, which has a strong following (and mechs are pretty popular).

Based on what I've seen on Ideas, original content often struggles to find an audience. A random monster project is a tougher sell than Doctor Who, no matter how awesome it looks. But if the monster is inspired by the work of a particular artist, author, etc (ie: HP Lovecraft) it might stand a better chance.

[dr_spock]

I think that would have a devastating, even catastrophic effect on the whole enterprise. Hardly anybody would vote for anything. Even the most popular ideas would take years to reach 10,000 votes. It would slow support activity to a crawl.

They could change the criteria of 10K votes. Depending on the economics, may be they don't need 10K votes if people already put money down. It could be treated like a condominium project that starts building construction after so many people put in their deposits.

In other words, turn LEGO Ideas into LEGO Kickstarter.

I guess kind of but with better odds you get your product or your money back.

[Blondie-Wan]

It would still limit voting to people with enough money lying around to just tie some of it up on things that might not reach fruition. They surely don't want to do that.

It would also force TLG to implement the financial infrastructure for taking payments on non-products, hanging onto them for months or years, and then refunding them 99%+ of the time. They surely don't want to do that, either.

Honestly, the idea would create vastly more trouble than it would eliminate. It's just not worth it.

[x105Black]

Exo-Suit is probably the most original of the group. But even with that, it was framed in the context of Classic Space, which has a strong following (and mechs are pretty popular).

I think we need to see more great projects like this, based on some classic themes that are not around anymore (like Space and Castle).

[fred67]

Their evaluation consists of a lot more than merely looking at something. They have to try to recreate it or do alternate builds for it, to see if they can deliver a set with a satisfying building experience....

Yes, their "final" evaluations consist of that, but you were talking about the thousands of projects they would have to wade through as opposed to the few sets that make 10k. What BirdOfPrey5 was saying is that there's not thousands a day that get submitted (at least that we see), and it's one of those things we've argued about in the past - there's a certain level of submission that just wastes everybody's time.

But on any given day, when you go look at ideas, you can skim through all the new submissions in a few minutes, instantly discarding 95% of them (BirdOfPrey5 says half... he's being generous). Most of them are non-starters or just terrible, many are not even worth the bytes they're printed on.

There seems to be only a few people that really work on Ideas until they get to the 10k evaluation stage - none of that would change. As he said, a couple of people could easily discard the vast majority (usually all) the submissions on a given day to end up with a top 10 or so at the end of each period.

I know that, at least for me, I wish they would filter out the obvious non-starters and submissions with a baseplate with a couple of figures standing on it and all the other nonsense people submit... it's at least 75% a waste of time. I don't agree it's a place to show off MOCs, or make kids happy because their creation was posted online and they got 10 sympathy votes from the grandparents and other relatives.

[Blondie-Wan]

Yes, their "final" evaluations consist of that, but you were talking about the thousands of projects they would have to wade through as opposed to the few sets that make 10k. What BirdOfPrey5 was saying is that there's not thousands a day that get submitted (at least that we see), and it's one of those things we've argued about in the past - there's a certain level of submission that just wastes everybody's time.

But on any given day, when you go look at ideas, you can skim through all the new submissions in a few minutes, instantly discarding 95% of them (BirdOfPrey5 says half... he's being generous). Most of them are non-starters or just terrible, many are not even worth the bytes they're printed on.

There seems to be only a few people that really work on Ideas until they get to the 10k evaluation stage - none of that would change. As he said, a couple of people could easily discard the vast majority (usually all) the submissions on a given day to end up with a top 10 or so at the end of each period.

I know that, at least for me, I wish they would filter out the obvious non-starters and submissions with a baseplate with a couple of figures standing on it and all the other nonsense people submit... it's at least 75% a waste of time. I don't agree it's a place to show off MOCs, or make kids happy because their creation was posted online and they got 10 sympathy votes from the grandparents and other relatives.

I get what you're saying, but it's still harder to draw a line than that. It's one thing for us to talk sbout obvious non-starters, but they can't just make a rule that says "obvious non-starters can't be posted", since it doesn't define what an obvious non-starter is, and it's really more a question of degree than anything - sometimes the difference between a non-starter and a decent vote-getter can be a fairly subtle one of only slightly more building sophistication (or even slightly better photography, or writing, etc.).

It's not only easier but also fairer for them to be as flexible as possible in what they'll allow, and let the voting process itself handle the weeding and filtering.

Are we really so lazy that we can't be bothered to scroll past a few unappealing projects to get to the good stuff? Do we really need everything presorted for us so that we can just blindly click "Support" on everything? What's the point of even voting at all, if that's the case?

Besides, as you yourself mention, we don't know that they don't weed out tons of stuff already. For all we know, the projects that get posted might be a small fraction of the submissions received.

[AndyC]

Also you're discounting the benefits an unsuccessful submission can have for it's creator. Imagine that I submit my first Idea and it's not very good, it's one of those "obvious failures", and maybe it doesn't do that well. However I do get some support and some feedback that helps to guide future submissions. The next project I submit might just be one that makes it.

In contrast, if all "obvious failures" are immediately discarded, the feedback I get is effectively "You're not good enough for Ideas", so maybe now I don't bother at all.

[Tariq j]

In addition to what's been said Lego want more an more submissions, this way people take to social media like Twitter and Facebook to advertise their products thus advertising Lego Ideas itself.

[CM4Sci]

Gee, I'd love to submit some projects to Ideas, but all I can think of are licensed stuff.

I wanna submit something I know people will like. Play features for those who like them, I dunno.

I don't wanna make a spaceship or a mech, anything sci-fi.

??

[Robert8]

Maybe a set based on an old theme, like Monster Fighters? They did it with the ExoSuit-Classic Space

Or a City set, like your Shopping Mall

[Blondie-Wan]

Gee, I'd love to submit some projects to Ideas, but all I can think of are licensed stuff.

I wanna submit something I know people will like. Play features for those who like them, I dunno.

I don't wanna make a spaceship or a mech, anything sci-fi.

??

Well, no one is saying you can't or shouldn't submit any licensed projects. If those are really the things that move you and that you think about, there's nothing wrong with that. People just want to ensure non-licensed creations don't get left completely out in the cold, that's all.

If you have some licensed projects you want to submit... go for it! :)

[CM4Sci]

Lego Ideas is somewhat not enough "alive". It needs more action, special events.

Why not contests within Lego Ideas?

Kind of already is a contest, winner gets their LEGO set made.

[pauleo]

Hi, I hope everyone has had a nice Christmas.

I have submitted my Lego Ideas project, and was hoping to gather some support and/or comments on the project.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Rick
Please read our Site Guidelines regarding LEGO Ideas projects

[fred67]

I get what you're saying, but it's still harder to draw a line than that. It's one thing for us to talk sbout obvious non-starters, but they can't just make a rule that says "obvious non-starters can't be posted", since it doesn't define what an obvious non-starter is, and it's really more a question of degree than anything - sometimes the difference between a non-starter and a decent vote-getter can be a fairly subtle one of only slightly more building sophistication (or even slightly better photography, or writing, etc.).

It's not only easier but also fairer for them to be as flexible as possible in what they'll allow, and let the voting process itself handle the weeding and filtering.

Are we really so lazy that we can't be bothered to scroll past a few unappealing projects to get to the good stuff? Do we really need everything presorted for us so that we can just blindly click "Support" on everything? What's the point of even voting at all, if that's the case?

Besides, as you yourself mention, we don't know that they don't weed out tons of stuff already. For all we know, the projects that get posted might be a small fraction of the submissions received.

I still think you're missing what I think was suggested - that we don't vote, that if all TLG wanted was ideas, then they would decide from among the submissions. BirdOfPrey5 seemed to suggest that what TLG really wants is people to "Guerrilla market" the ideas website, and they're aren't really just looking for ideas.

I actually think we're off on a really odd tangent, here.... because I don't think that's what either of us actually wants.

[BirdOPrey5]

People could vote. but voting wouldn't be the only means to having LEGO give serious consideration to a set. There are sets posted that are generally a waste of time, sets posted that could be great sets, and sets posted that reach the 10,000 mark, and the later two do not completely overlap. There are also the sets with no chance that reach 10,000 votes.

Take for example the Corvette that recently failed the review. That set was virtually perfect. It either didn't pass because LEGO couldn't get a license or LEGO felt it would compete with their existing or future sets. Either way they shouldn't have to have waited for 10K votes. Someone can just look at that project the day it's submitted and get the ball rolling. Do whatever they do. And then they could change its status to "Thanks but no thanks" so we know it got its review but for whatever reason is being passed on. People don't have to waste time voting on it, and others with similar ideas may learn not to bother submitting anything too similar.

[lightningtiger]

Add to the mix not only if a project scores 10K but at least interests the design teams in Denmark bingo a new set or even whole theme/sub-theme for free and the poor original ideas person gets nothing.

I would be happy if I was able to inspire city designs at Lego to create sets similar to what I design.

[Faefrost]

I think the "non starter" stuff that clutters up Ideas is kind of the price we have to pay. Remember this is still at core a children's product. A toy. So allowing the kids to participate ultimately helps Lego's goals. It's the digital equivalent of hanging little Billy's finger painting on the refrigerator. It's something we "serious adult types" just have to tolerate. Doing otherwise damages the brand.

I know people often call for size limits, but I still don't think that is a good idea. Rather I would prefer if they were to refine and republish some of the old "guides for passing review" and "some suggestions for what makes a reasonable production set" type of papers. You don't need to make a hard and fast rule. If you say no 10k piece projects than you will be inundated with 9,999 piece ones. Don't give rules lawyers ammunition. Just give some clear guidance on how design decisions impact review. Let people know in an easy to find posting, how increasing part count leads to diminishing review chances. Actually talk about parts budgets and change budgets. Don't set hard rules. Instead give the Ideas participants more information to help them design better ideas.

But that's just my 2c.

[JGW3000]

Looks like reports on the death of IDEAS are premature, as they dropped a hint in yesterday's blog posting - TLG's Tim Courtney posted "After the holidays, we'll wrap up the Second 2015 LEGO Review and prepare our announcement. There's some exciting news to share in just a few weeks ... so hold tight!", so we are getting at least one new project approved, I assume. Perhaps Caterham and/or F7A Hornet and/or Adventure Time?

[Robert8]

I think you're right. They are hinting there will be (at least) 1 set approved

It would be really a waste if they don't approve the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man set.... It would be perfect for the new Ghostbusters set