LEGO Ideas Discussion

[TheBrickPal]

The Female Minifigures Set is rumored to be the winner of the last review, and will be put into production as 21110 Research Institute. More here... http://www.thebrickfan.com/female-minifigure-set-may-be-next-official-lego-ideas-product/ Discuss!

[Fritzy]

Yeah, saw that earlier! Hoping that's the case. It'll be the cheapest set in the Ideas line, which may work in its favour. Don't know where this information originates from, but if it's true, then this "leak" should mean that the results will be posted imminently. Hopefully this week.

[fred67]

Agree completely with Dharkan.

And....

The people posting pictures of what they would like made (but it's not even LEGO).

People posting a base plate with a couple of stacks of bricks and a minifigure or two and calling it something.

People posting pictures of MOCs of already existing (and currently available) sets, as if, even if it were better, TLG would release a different version.

Let's face it... some MOCs there are absolute garbage. I haven't posted any of mine because, even though I'm happy enough with my own work, it's either: not good enough to be a set; isn't suitable to be a set; has already been done better by someone else (does nobody search before posting?), obviously breaks rules; or is too small or large. Don't people have any self restraint anymore? Too many achievement awards for attendance?

I've had this discussion before.. and people thought I was just being mean, and that some people just wanted to showcase their creations... but that's not what cusoo or ideas is for, it's not to waste people's time wading through junk.

There are sites (like this one) for people to share without ruining ideas.

It also seems like some people will support anything.

Edited June 2, 2014 by fred67

[Faefrost]

To be honest, I am kinda disappointed by LEGO Ideas (or CUUSOO) so far. Let me write down my concerns and I'd like if you comment on them.

1. Big scale models are pretty much complete waste of time. I mean no disrespect to people who put their creations on there but seriously LEGO, if you don't want anything big scale in Ideas, just add it into rules and details section.

2. Models from current licenses also does not have big chance. Why they don't just release it along it the ongoing theme if its voted?

3. I might be mistaken on this one but Ideas is more profit oriented than it should be. After first two sets, when it gained popularity. Look at BttF set, even though it was a dreadful model (I still hate myself for buying it) it is the best selling set on Amazon. Ghostbusters will be one of the best sellers of LEGO up to date, I'm sure of that. Minecraft likewise. But they should give chance to non-licensed, unique creations too. There had been quite a few nice projects that got rejected. Oh well, I hope exo-suit and female minifig set can prove me wrong.

Besides all these, I have a little annoyance special to me too which has nothing to do with Ideas but, I kinda dislike when people put everything they build into Ideas. I don't get it and I find it annoying. They also spam forums and topics with their links and stuff like that.

Just to address some of your points, I think you like a lot of people are under a certain misconception of what Ideas or CuuSoo is, and what getting 10k votes means. Getting a project to 10k basically means you get to make a product pitch to Lego. You effectively get a guaranteed appointment to sell them on your idea. It is not 10k votes to get your set made. 10k votes is just to get your foot in the door to make your pitch. And honestly that is more than fair. It makes Lego one of the most open and fan sourced businesses on the planet, and it uses your fellow fans as a filter.

Just to look at some of your points

1. Large scale models. You say they should just say no large scale models. They have posted perfectly valid guidelines and suggestions for what they are looking for. The most basic and instructive being "look at the actual Lego sets that we make. Look at what is on store shelves and use them as a guide for size". Exactly how large are you looking for them to go? Case in point that Helicarrier currently getting far too many votes. The presented model is larger than an adult male and would weigh more than a small car. It's estimated cost would start around $2000. It's Lego fault when project presenters don't use common sense? They don't get in the way with you presenting your dreams, but it's unreasonable to expect them to pay for them. Unless I am missing or forgetting something to our knowledge no large scale model has failed review on the basis of its size. I think the only monster to hit review was the Sandcrawler. And as much as we love that, there were a host of reasons for its failure. Aside from being the biggest set Lego would have ever made, even if they stripped out the motors, it still ran afoul of the existing license, which we will discuss more below. (Oh yes there was also the Landrover, which once again had issues besides just size. And once again was not simply a large set, but the largest technic set ever.) They don't put hard limits on size, but they do say enough that most with a lick of sense should be able to pretty clearly see the boundaries? Unfortunately common sense often seems in short supply around Lego fandom at times.

2. Current licenses. Sigh! They do say up front "projects based on pre existing licenses may often face additional complications at review". This is because licenses are contracts. And they are complicated. And each is unique. They do not blanket disallow them because each is completely unique. And each depends a great deal on the likes, whims, plans and desires of the individual licensors, how they interpret "pre existing art", whether they would allow a project suggestion from a third party, or a project royalty, whether something conflicts with Lego's internal license groups plans or work? Etc etc. a whole host of things. Things they can't predict until they put it in review.

Let's look at that Sandcrawler again shall we? Here are the potential or probable failure points for it.

- Lucasfilm's merchandising division simply did not want a Sandcrawler at this time. They veto'd it day one.

- Lucasfilm's legal department might not permit a third party contractor to receive a royalty based on an on screen ILM design or visual IP. Some companies are extremely tight about that sort of thing. Lucasfilms and the people who made Babylon 5 are notorious for how tightly they control their IP.

- Lego's internal Star Wars team veto's it because they have a similar subject planned or in production.

- lego's internal legal team veto's it because they have already made one or more sets of this specific subject under the pre existing license and it is felt to be prior or existing art. ( one of the unwritten common sense rules of Ideas. Proposing "what Lego already made, but better!" Will ALWAYS fail review if it is licensed IP. )

That's 4 major potential review failures before anyone even looks at the model. We now know at least one of them was in effect for the Sandcrawler. Now here's the flip side. Sometimes the licensor might really really like the project. Sometimes they may go out of their way to make it work within the confines of the license or give special permission. The entire point is licenses are complicated. They add a lot of extra potential failure points to a review, but they are impossible to predict until the business and legal review team sits down, looks at each one, and makes some phone calls. The CuuSoo or now Ideas staff do not know the terms of each or even any of the pre existing licenses to make a predetermination. Heck Warner Brothers might fall in love with that Wayne Manor? Each case will be different.

3. More profit driven than they should be? And exactly how profit driven is acceptable? Do you know what the most expensive, most valuable, most carefully hoarded and managed thing in all of TLG is? It's production time. Factory runs. Ideas currently has 3 production slots per year for new sets. They want to maximize those runs for the best return in order to grow the program. You are also drawing the wrong conclusions from the BttF sets ranking on Amazon. The DeLorean is a CuuSoo set. It has been produced in multiple limited lot runs. I would be surprised if the total production of that set, one of the most produced CuuSoo sets, exceeds 200,000 pieces. A Ninjago set will have 1 million pieces made. CuuSoo runs at least used to start at 20,000 pieces for the initial run (I'm betting the GB Ecto 1 is the highest initial run ever for this sort of set. Maybe 100,000 pieces?)

Here's the thing that ties your point 1 and 3 together. Risk. In electing to produce an Ideas set Lego is taking on risk. Just as every set they make takes on risk. But fan sourced risk has to be a little more carefully managed. They don't have a lot of underlying business data for these sets. Nor do they have 2 years worth of planning and research backing each up. So they will strive to keep the risk minimal. Figure each 100 pieces of a set increases the risk by a certain multiplier (equating to an extra $10 consumer cost per step). At what point does the risk start exceeding the returns? And here's the thing. We want Ideas to make a profit. A good profit. We want the Ideas team to be careful stewards and to grow the project carefully and with minimal risk. Because it is in our benefit for them to do so. As it grows its margin for risk increases, and therefore so do the size and numbers and types of sets we can see come out of it. Profit is not bad. Growth comes from profit. Variety comes from profit. The things we want to see come from profit. I want the Lego Ideas team to be careful and conscientious shepards of the platform. I want them to not just make the sets I want to see, but to make the best business choices while doing it. It's how we get more and better stuff.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Faefrost

[Meiko]

I got a cool LEGO Ideas decal in the mail today. :D

[fred67]

@faefrost; when I read Dharkan's post,I got a completely different vibe... Not a complaint about TLG's rules but, like my follow-up, the submitters themselves... perhaps not for point 3.

So I just did my daily check only to find the millionth Tardis, even while Dr. Who is already being considered... that's one of the things that diminishes ideas.

[Faefrost]

@faefrost; when I read Dharkan's post,I got a completely different vibe... Not a complaint about TLG's rules but, like my follow-up, the submitters themselves... perhaps not for point 3.

Yeah, we agree on the submitters thing. Far far too many seem to use it as a MOC showcase and just throw up anything.

Oh and did everyone catch Just2Goods post over in the Town forums?

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=96322

Brick fan or Brickpicker may have inadvertently spoiled or at least discovered the next Ideas set before it is announced.

[Floundie]

https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/blog Here are the results.

[Fritzy]

Well, that's a bummer. I'm glad they found a way to continue with the Female Minifigure Set, and that we don't have to wait long for it. But it's a shame nothing else made it through.

Wasn't surprised about Zelda (is anyone?), but I was rooting for the Adventure Time project. Maybe one day LEGO will do their own theme of it, because the opportunity is too good to pass up. Would've been nice to have some explanation on why these projects didn't pass, but that's nothing new.

[Dorayaki]

I'm not surprised to see Female Minifigure Set pass. But to be honest, even though I really support this one, it's the least interesting project due to its similarity with existed City/Minifigures line, while the others are more original.

Most of the sets have license issues that may not fit in LEGO's marketing strategy. The only problem might be the Japanese Archtecture, which could have bring a totally different wave to our existed modular buildings which are mostly European styles. It's better that LEGO would officially give something else instead one day.

And the fact that really makes fans dissapoint would be that only "ONE" project passes in a single period. Yes, maybe it's a coincidence and we can't push it, but if this situation continues, voters would lose interests in making votes since more votes wouldn't result in more products.

[Faefrost]

I'm not surprised to see Female Minifigure Set pass. But to be honest, even though I really support this one, it's the least interesting project due to its similarity with existed City/Minifigures line, while the others are more original.

Most of the sets have license issues that may not fit in LEGO's marketing strategy. The only problem might be the Japanese Archtecture, which could have bring a totally different wave to our existed modular buildings which are mostly European styles. It's better that LEGO would officially give something else instead one day.

And the fact that really makes fans dissapoint would be that only "ONE" project passes in a single period. Yes, maybe it's a coincidence and we can't push it, but if this situation continues, voters would lose interests in making votes since more votes wouldn't result in more products.

I agree with the Research Lab set. A bit dull. Yet still inspirational. And with a clever rename they manage to deliver the "girls asking for a set about girls doing science" while at the same time not overtly supporting some of the groups that pushed for it, or opening themselves up to further activism via their crowd sourcing platform.

I think everything else in that review period did not have a great chance of passing review. Even Adventure Time is not something that would work as a one shot limited release license. It is a current thriving popular property. Those who own it would probably want to hold out for a full product theme such as TMNT or Spongebob.

The Japanese Architecture project was gorgeous and might have been a better fit if the creator had trimmed it down when asked. Besides taking years to reach 10k, if it had not hit 10k when it did it would have been deleted as a theme.

The rest as you say license, production and brand fit issues. I don't think there are any surprises or debates about why things did not pass this time.

The weirdest thing is there seems to be a chance of GlenBricker ending up with back to back sets in two review periods.

[Floundie]

It is a shame because I really wanted Sherlock to pass. Congrats to Alatariel though.

[Captain Nemo]

Boooo! We want Sherlock!

I have to say I'm really disappointed with the results. I don't think the Female Minifigure Set offers anything new or unique that we don't already find in themes like city. It seems like something that could come from those themes, and not take the spot of a set we wouldn't normally get. And I don't like how the winner was a set that was held over--it wasn't good enough to straight out win last time, and now it's winning just so Lego doesn't have to make any things from this review period. Shame! Shame on you Lego Ideas!

[Xyver]

Although I'm not surprised with the final result, I would like to know what took them so long to make an announcement. If the Research Institute will be available in August it's obviously already well through the production process, which they probably started before this review did. So I would guess it actually passed it's original review period, they just held it up in case there was nothing in the next one.

So was there something in this review they were actually considering that they just couldn't quite make fit? I guess we will never know. Or do they actually have a timetable for their announcements that they haven't released, just seems like a long time to say nothing passed, especially with many that would outright fail before they even start.

And does this mean the exo suit is delayed even longer? Do they actually want to release that set?

[Faefrost]

It is a shame because I really wanted Sherlock to pass. Congrats to Alatariel though.

There was never any chance of Sherlock passing the brand fit review. It is a modern era show following the adventures of a "high function Sociopath" and a stressed out PTSD suffering combat vet as they track down serial killers and other purveyors of "murder most foul". It's delightfully dark. Wonderfully adult. And most certainly not something particularly age appropriate for the 6-12 crowd. Remember they failed Firefly over age and brand appropriateness, so Sherlock? That was not going to happen.

Besides, why exactly would they pay to license the modern pop culture version for something that is already in the public domain?

[fred67]

I only voted for the lady scientists and the Japanese architecture set. I think another BTTF was just dumb... yes, I realize this was a lot better than the one they just released, but they just released it and I think a lot of people might even get mad they bought the bad one when a great one was right around the corner. I don't think Sherlock was a good fit, probably a much more limited audience.

Now... Adventure Time, although I didn't support it, would probably be pretty darn cool... I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, though. Although it's largely a one way street (with LEGO content airing on Cartoon Network instead of the other way around), there is, at least, a really good working relationship there (full disclosure: I work for Turner Broadcasting, and I don't have any inside information, so my guess is as good as anybody's), so the future may hold that LEGO does some Cartoon Network related sets.

[Blondie-Wan]

I only voted for the lady scientists and the Japanese architecture set. I think another BTTF was just dumb... yes, I realize this was a lot better than the one they just released, but they just released it and I think a lot of people might even get mad they bought the bad one when a great one was right around the corner. I don't think Sherlock was a good fit, probably a much more limited audience.

Now... Adventure Time, although I didn't support it, would probably be pretty darn cool... I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, though. Although it's largely a one way street (with LEGO content airing on Cartoon Network instead of the other way around), there is, at least, a really good working relationship there (full disclosure: I work for Turner Broadcasting, and I don't have any inside information, so my guess is as good as anybody's), so the future may hold that LEGO does some Cartoon Network related sets.

Well, indeed, they already are, right? Isn't Mixels the result of a partnership between LEGO and CN?

[fred67]

Yeah... a collaboration, not existing content being made into LEGO. That's why I said "largely one way" with, as far as I know, no existing CN content being made into LEGO sets. But Turner Broadcasting is huge, and I don't watch CN and don't deal with them very often, so I certainly could be wrong.

EDIT: I mean, I guess Clone Wars counts. How could I overlook that? But then that was part of the SW license, AFAIK.

Edited June 3, 2014 by fred67

[Faefrost]

Now... Adventure Time, although I didn't support it, would probably be pretty darn cool... I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, though. Although it's largely a one way street (with LEGO content airing on Cartoon Network instead of the other way around), there is, at least, a really good working relationship there (full disclosure: I work for Turner Broadcasting, and I don't have any inside information, so my guess is as good as anybody's), so the future may hold that LEGO does some Cartoon Network related sets.

As I think I mentioned above, licenses are complicated. Given that AT is a popular and ongoing show the license is probably expensive, or the owners are looking to sell a much broader license than Lego would ever need for Ideas. At this stage the AT people want toy lines not small run exclusives.

Also something we don't often think on since most Ideas license requests are older or inactive properties. If Lego has even just begun talks with AT about a full license, unrelated to a CuuSoo or Ideas project, than that would pretty much guarantee that any Ideas projects would have to fail.

[jonwil]

Looking at the things that didn't make it, here are my guesses as to why:

Macross has far too many licensing issues (different license holders in different countries etc) to be viable. Plus it doesn't have that "kid appeal" that it needs to be a viable product.

Zelda has the same problem as the other Zelda projects (namely the need for new molds and the issues surrounding Nintendo and licensing)

Japanese Old Style has the problem that the project didn't narrow down a specific exact building to make plus again it didn't have the kid appeal.

Adventure Time, licensing may have been an issue plus there is the issue of how broad the appeal base for a cartoon line that is (and the large size that such a set would need to be to pull off the tree house at a suitable scale)

UCS Delorian, the first Delorian is still on sale, this one would have cost a fair bit more and we dont know if there were licensing issues (e.g. the fact that this one is PF remote control may conflict with someone else who has a license to produce a remote control Delorian)

Sherlock just doesn't have the kid appeal either plus a set that's just a room full of stuff with a few minifigs doesn't sound like something that would sell.

Looking at the next set of ideas:

I cant see the modular Apple store making it, both because Apple is unlikely to grant LEGO a license and because LEGO is unlikely to want to produce a product that is so closely tied to another real world company in this way. Plus, how many kids (even kids with iPhones or iPads or iPods or other Apple gear) would be interested in an Apple Store play set?

Big Bang Theory isn't really something that appeals to kids, nor is there that much potential for a set beyond "a room of stuff with some figs" with no real playability.

The bird project is interesting but again, how many kids (or even AFOLs) would want a model of a bird?

My hope is that the BTTF train gets made (its different to the Delorian so there is no overlap between the 2, its a logical extention to the line, the Delorian has sold in big numbers and the train would probably sell just as well). Only question mark would be how expensive it would need to be in order to work as a set (its a fair bit bigger than the Delorian) and whether it gets ruled out on the basis of size/price.

As for Doctor Who, assuming the license can be secured, the hard part for them is figuring out which of the many Doctors to put in the set. I just hope if it gets made, it comes with a Dalek (which would have to be up there as one of the most recognized robot bad guys of all time with their unique looks and famous "Exterminate" voice)

EDIT:

The other issue for Adventure Time might have been the need to make new elements to really get the look right.

Edited June 3, 2014 by jonwil

[Faefrost]

I think there is a weird licensing issue with the Daleks. Not insurmountable, just strange. I seem to recall that like the Barris Batmobile the actual license somehow was held by the people that made the Daleks, not the television company.

[Dorayaki]

There was never any chance of Sherlock passing the brand fit review. It is a modern era show following the adventures of a "high function Sociopath" and a stressed out PTSD suffering combat vet as they track down serial killers and other purveyors of "murder most foul". It's delightfully dark. Wonderfully adult. And most certainly not something particularly age appropriate for the 6-12 crowd. Remember they failed Firefly over age and brand appropriateness, so Sherlock? That was not going to happen.

Besides, why exactly would they pay to license the modern pop culture version for something that is already in the public domain?

I'm not sure about that. The team particularly annoucned that Doctor Who is welcome, so it should mean that some other TV drama series should also stand a chance. I'm not sure if murders would be the key issue why real detective drama series is not proper for LEGO.

I think everything else in that review period did not have a great chance of passing review. Even Adventure Time is not something that would work as a one shot limited release license. It is a current thriving popular property. Those who own it would probably want to hold out for a full product theme such as TMNT or Spongebob.

I think the Aventure Time model is pretty nice, but do I support this? I stopped watching that right after Finn broke up with Princess Bubblegum. As you said these licenses need a full theme, and the production budget can afford this kind of cartoon projects. But as result, that means only licenses with human-like characters have good chances to achieve. while the very cartoonie ones don't.

Unless TLC would just produce only one set for this license. D'oh, yes, they just did something like that recently.

Japanese Old Style has the problem that the project didn't narrow down a specific exact building to make plus again it didn't have the kid appeal.

Totally disagree with your second point. If it isn't appealling, I guess Modular houses should be cancelled long time ago, and Ninjago is also a proof that western consumers are interested in Japanese culture.

Your first point makes better explanation. I would say the previous Western Town had the same problem only if the it wasn't rejected for a wrong reason.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Dorayaki

[BlueberryWaffles]

I'll probably buy it. Disappointed that the UCS DeLorean didn't make it but that's understandable. My friend (HUGE Zelda and overall Nintendo fan) will not be happy Zelda failed a third time.

Now I'm really hoping the time train makes it.

[Faefrost]

I'm not sure about that. The team particularly annoucned that Doctor Who is welcome, so it should mean that some other TV drama series should also stand a chance. I'm not sure if murders would be the key issue why real detective drama series is not proper for LEGO.

I'm going to guess that the Sherlock series isn't that widely available in Taiwan yet? There's murder on TV, and then there is MURDER! Sherlock is a wonderful show. One of the best you will ever encounter. But it is absolutely in the upper edge of 13+ age ranges. Kind of like Lego might make a MacBeth minifig, but they will never do a Jack the Ripper sort of thing.

[Dorayaki]

I'm going to guess that the Sherlock series isn't that widely available in Taiwan yet? There's murder on TV, and then there is MURDER! Sherlock is a wonderful show. One of the best you will ever encounter. But it is absolutely in the upper edge of 13+ age ranges. Kind of like Lego might make a MacBeth minifig, but they will never do a Jack the Ripper sort of thing.

Sherlock already got to Hong Kong and Taiwan, it's just that I'm not into this show . I can relate to what you're saying, so it might be right for the team not to approve this license. Now I just wish that Big Bang Theory would have any better chance to pass. Edited June 4, 2014 by Dorayaki