7 wide LEGO trains Vs O gauge size comparison

[Bricktrix]

I thought I'd put this out here for non Flickr users (and to be honest I dont blame anyone for not using it given its recent changes!) as its a subject that I find very interesting when it comes to building at 7 wide in LEGO, and hopefully others here will also find it of some interest or use to future builds?

Many people know within the LEGO community that I strive for an almost "model realistic" look to my LEGO trains, its purely a personal prefference and offers an alternative to the table of building within the medium.

One thing I noticed when I switched over to 7 wide 6 or 7 years ago is the first time I put them up against an O-Guage model, is just how close to O-guage model scale they were and with a few tweaks here and there, they could actually be built in some cases to be almost spot on scale wise.

I've usually just put the pics of a particular LEGO model into its set / album on flickr, but I've now made a new album / set specifically for my findings every time I take comparison shots.

I dont ever work to overlaid blue prints, etc so all my builds are pure guess work to the correct proportions from photos that I aquire of the real things.....and this is where I find most of the interest lays. When I initially design a model, sometimes it will be done using selective compression because I know trying to replicate a 60ft loco, is going to lead to problems through curves, points, etc. Some get to a very close compromise in length and some can be spot on, but I will always try to keep everything in proportion to each other, so that one is shorter to an other if it is in real life.

I'll kick this off with a much older model that started out as a King Class, but when put next to an O-guage model lent itself scale wise to being almost spot on to a Castle Class, so with a few rebuilds, resulted in this:

Full set:

https://www.flickr.c...57629016823127/

So I took 9 work in progress models over today to take some comparison pics to see how I was "fairing up" in my guess work and the results were interesting. I wont go into the ones that I'm happy with, they will all continue to be finished off and posted at a later date.

These are the ones that I will be re-working or at least looking at the options with:

Class 35 Hymek diesel:

My guess work so I thought was spot on with this, but (despite the angle the pics taken, the right end lines up with both models) its actually 4 studs too short. This is a loco that I can goto full scale length with, but with looking at the LEGO geometry against the models geometry I'm not so sure it will look "right" if taken out to the correct length. i.e. the grill bricks in LEGO being smaller than the models grills, hence if I elongate my model the spaces between them will start to look disproportionate. The 9v LEGO motor wheel spacing also plays a big part in this with what looks right, so only experimenting with elongating it out to the extra 4 studs will show the results. I'm expecting that it will not look right and take it back to what I have here, but there is only one way for me to find out. It may open up some possibilities that I didnt envisage at this stage......but this is all what makes it so interesting to me at least as a designer.

0-6-0 Hunslet saddle tank:

This one has only been on the go for the last few days and I wasnt convinced with it, especially the rear tender, but I was surprised that I was 1 stud out with the length of the boiler and to me it makes a massive difference to the overall proportional look of the model, so back to the drawing board with this one, that 1 stud means another complete chassis rebuild, with offset wheel spacing, I'll also look at a rebuild in red or black, blue, etc....it may stay green but I'm not sold on it at this stage.

2-6-2 Large GWR Prairie:

Now this one isnt like for like. The LEGO model is a Large Prairie, whilst the O-guage is a standard (unfortunately the guys dont have a Large version) but it still gave me a good enough impression of the LEGO models scale, which is about right. Ironically the cab on a large is a lower profile than the standard (or at least the profile of the curve is less), but the boiler is longer with higher side water tanks and lowered running boards on the rear tender. I've always been tempted between the 2 versions of the Prairie but really only wanted to build one. I have some custom rods ordered with Benn (Zephyr) for this, so it will probably stay and MAYBE a standard will also be built....maybe in BR black as pictured, maybe not?

Link to size album which I thoroughly intend to keep updating as and when, and start putting pics into from past builds also for size ref:

https://www.flickr.c...57644126223681/

I hope this is of some interest and or use to some here, as its not something I see anywhere within our community and whilst I know that not everyone is out to try and replicate the scale as best possible, some are and this type of stuff can be valuable to them. I also wonder if this maybe a thread that others could contribute to with like for like comparison pics? Just a thought for exploring potential :)

Carl

[v6TransAM]

Color me impressed.

Some good looking engines there.

[lightningtiger]

Excellent brick-copies of those model trains 'Bricktrix'.......keep them coming and Brick On !

[Duq]

Very interesting post Carl. I think few people go to the lengths you do to get models to scale... Still, when you build with Lego you'll always have to compromise somewhere.

I wouldn't mind comparing my BR 55 to an O-scale model but i wouldn't know where to borrow one.

[Bricktrix]

Very interesting post Carl. I think few people go to the lengths you do to get models to scale... Still, when you build with Lego you'll always have to compromise somewhere.

I wouldn't mind comparing my BR 55 to an O-scale model but i wouldn't know where to borrow one.

Thanks Dug, and yeah I know. Even my most "extreme" personal builds always have many compromises in them, its the nature of the beast and I dont mind that (well okay, sometimes I do, but if I couldnt accept it then I'd be building scratch built models again rather than using LEGO) but that was pretty much the point of this post.

Not many people "do" go to these lengths, but will it be usefull to the ones who do, and in turn, would that then start to become almost a norm for a more "average" builder. I use that term very losely, as the standards I have seen within LEGO train builders over the years, what was raising the bar 7 years ago, is now almost parr for the course now-a-days. It certainly keeps me on my toes, which I think is always healthy from a design perspective.

Plus you just about answered your own comment, you wouldnt mind seeing how yours compares.....I think its almost a natural instinct from builders who care, and hopefully of interest to those who do or who are slightly intruiged.....thats exactly how I started thinking, then saw a comparison and made my choices, do I change it or dont I. (But admittedly that was after changing the initial model many times before making the comparison)

This isnt meant to sound like elitism or a niche, but more to offer something of potential interest.

[MusicaRibelle]

I'm very impressed.

It's not the direction I want to go myself -- I have taken up Lego again as a stress-free, anything-goes hobby -- but I admire very much the work you've done.

The colors of your Lego reproductions imho end up looking better than the O-scale models, so excellent choice there as well.

Some of your Flicker pictures show models on O gauge rails -- have you actually tried to run some of your Lego trains on O rails + controls? Just curious..

[zephyr1934]

Your comparisons are fantastic and it is always neat to see the new tricks you come up with in your builds. Like MusicaRibelle asked, are you building to O gauge (or with variable gauge axles)?

Though in general one has to be careful when comparing to O gauge. In your case you have found good O gauge models. However, there are plenty of fantasy O gauge models out there that look less realistic than the stock EN does. Then there are plenty of cases of selective compression in O gauge too. Even when it is a proportionate O gauge model, the locomotive or car might be based on the design of a completely different railroad than what it is lettered for.

Personally I prefer to build mostly 6 wide in part because it is easier to get the right length or closer to the right length when running on the tight lego curves. I also like the fact that 6 wide are lighter. Still, I do envy the extra detail that can be fit in 7 and 8 wide trains. One or two more studs of width is a huge difference when you are only starting with 6.

No matter what width you build at, it is that forever quest for the grand slam piece that gets this side just right while simultaneously making the other side of the corner work too. Oh and !@#$% they never made it in my color... (grin). That is part of the fun of this hobby.

[SavaTheAggie]

Fantastic photos of your always fantastic work. I am not as fortunate in finding O gauge examples of models I've built, so I have to say I'm a bit jealous. Very fun to see the pairs together.

--Tony

[Bricktrix]

Thank you very much guys :)

Fantastic photos of your always fantastic work. I am not as fortunate in finding O gauge examples of models I've built, so I have to say I'm a bit jealous. Very fun to see the pairs together.

Thank you mate but thats also shame Tony, I thought you may be one contributing to this thread as I'm sure I've seen pics of 1 or 2 of your locos next to their approprate scale model counterparts a some years ago.....way before I ever started doing these comparison pics?

Your comparisons are fantastic and it is always neat to see the new tricks you come up with in your builds. Like MusicaRibelle asked, are you building to O gauge (or with variable gauge axles)?

Though in general one has to be careful when comparing to O gauge. In your case you have found good O gauge models. However, there are plenty of fantasy O gauge models out there that look less realistic than the stock EN does. Then there are plenty of cases of selective compression in O gauge too. Even when it is a proportionate O gauge model, the locomotive or car might be based on the design of a completely different railroad than what it is lettered for.

Benn, no I'm using the standard LEGO wheelsets. Dont be fooled by the photos, the flanges are on the rails this side of the picture, but on the wrong side of the rail at the rear so they dont fit or run on 0-gauge track.

I couldnt agree more about some poor O-guage models too. Petes are always pretty much spot on, so I'm lucky enough to have such a good source. I wouldnt be taking these pictures along side them if they werent right.

I'm very impressed.

It's not the direction I want to go myself -- I have taken up Lego again as a stress-free, anything-goes hobby -- but I admire very much the work you've done.

The colors of your Lego reproductions imho end up looking better than the O-scale models, so excellent choice there as well

Thank you and thats the beauty of this hobby, take whatever direction you want. I posted these as I thought they may just prove useful to someone.

I also do this for stress relief (although sometimes you wouldnt think it!) even after I do it all day for a job, it still de-stresses me in my down-time as I'm not against deadlines or doing it for anyone elses standards ;)

[SavaTheAggie]

It's a combination of choosing very specific locomotives (of which there are no scale models) and most of the shows I attend being mostly HO and N gauge layouts. Typically I only ever find myself in the same room as the same O Gauge club, and they don't have too many of my locomotives.

That said I do have one photo of one of my MOCs next to its O Gauge counterpart:

texlug_11-13-10_50 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

The only other scale model comparison I have is my Daylight next to a N Gauge model. Well, underneath the N Gauge model...

NewBraunfels12_45 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

I have, however, quite a few photos of my MOCs next to the 1:1 Scale models. ;)

Railfest2010_21 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

Railfest2010_07 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

DayOutWithThomas11_001 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

WBTSCompare_04 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

Railfest2010_05 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

(It's like a game of "Spot the MOC" :)

--Tony

[Hrw-Amen]

When I started with LEGO trains, well after my dark age I was thinking to myself that I would like a train set again. I had really small N Gauge stuff as a kid which was in my father's attic but I really wanted a bigger scale and had looked at getting O Gauge as an option. Don't get me wrong, small n gauge is good, you can get alot into a layout the size of a coffee table, but with O Gauge you can get those big engines with lots of details. The thing that put me off O Gauge was the cost of the things at £100.00 + for a single wagon, not to mention £400/£500.00 for an engine. I just did not have that as sor of cash. It seemed to me that LEGO was the answer, I could have the fun of building an engine and everything else and get as much detail as I possibly could into it. In the end some of the engines still end up costing me around £200.00 but that can be spread over a period as you do not have to get all the bricks before you start building.

[ust60]

Hello Carl

how much I like your models, and I treasures your work very much, I've already told you. That you are trying your models in scale according to models of track 0 rebuild, I did not know. Seven is far more reserved in my model considerations diesel locomotives and wagons.

At my "love" the steam locomotives are actually eight far "planned" but when you look closely, there are also times nine or ten in the cab with boarding handles.

I actually used the Internet as a template on Google Images "model (BR - 23)" to enter and read a lot, looking much.

Best regards Udo

[Bricktrix]

Thanks guys :)

When I started with LEGO trains, well after my dark age I was thinking to myself that I would like a train set again. I had really small N Gauge stuff as a kid which was in my father's attic but I really wanted a bigger scale and had looked at getting O Gauge as an option. Don't get me wrong, small n gauge is good, you can get alot into a layout the size of a coffee table, but with O Gauge you can get those big engines with lots of details. The thing that put me off O Gauge was the cost of the things at £100.00 + for a single wagon, not to mention £400/£500.00 for an engine. I just did not have that as sor of cash. It seemed to me that LEGO was the answer, I could have the fun of building an engine and everything else and get as much detail as I possibly could into it. In the end some of the engines still end up costing me around £200.00 but that can be spread over a period as you do not have to get all the bricks before you start building.

Yup, as a kid I had 00 and n and loved them both for different reasons. My dad got me a 00 smoking 0-6-0 Jinty for my 3rd birthday...ha so I sort of know who he really got it for as it was well beyond my "saftey limits" at 3 years old! God bless him. R.I.P dad.

I didnt know O-gauge even existed, but I loved the LEGO scale of trains back in my pre-teens and teens. Now-a-days, the O-gauge models I'm familiar with all appear to run to around 1k once you've added wheels, motors, speakers, lights, chips, etc, etc and to be honest most of my LEGO versions wouldnt come in much cheaper if having to purchase every part via Bricklink along with adding all the DCC stuff...maybe a few hundred quid cheaper on some. Luckily I usually dont have to do that as I have many parts in my collection, but its certainly something I always consider if I dont have certain things.

Hello Carl

how much I like your models, and I treasures your work very much, I've already told you. That you are trying your models in scale according to models of track 0 rebuild, I did not know. Seven is far more reserved in my model considerations diesel locomotives and wagons.

At my "love" the steam locomotives are actually eight far "planned" but when you look closely, there are also times nine or ten in the cab with boarding handles.

I actually used the Internet as a template on Google Images "model (BR - 23)" to enter and read a lot, looking much.

Best regards Udo

Hi Udo, thanks although I'm not exactly sure what it was you just said to me?! If I'm reading along the correct lines of thinking, when I say 7 wide I talk about the running board width, not including extruding door handles / grabs, piston boxes or connecting wheel rods / valve gear, as indeed all those things can take the complete width of the model out to 9 studs or so in footprint. BUT, if I build a cab to 8 wide (which I dont) then I would class the model as 8 wide, if that makes things clearer? So when I say 7 wide vs o-guage, its the actual body width I'm talking about as those are the things that I'm comparing dimensions against, to our U.K. rail running standards and indeed this may change from country to country where locos such as in the U.S. are wider than ours. i.e. Tony (Sava) builds to 8 wide (and I thinjk sometimes he has gone out to 10) as its more suited to the U.S. loading gauge.

[SavaTheAggie]

Scales change between countries, too. UK O scale is typically 1:43.5, with US O Scale being 1:48 (what I try to build to).

I consider a train to be "X-wide" wherein "X" is the widest part of the body of train (cab, footplates, whatever). Smaller details such as handrails, hoses, even pistons do not dictate the MOC's classification. This is where I draw a distinction between "width" and "clearance".

So, for me, at 1:48 US O Gauge, UK and European trains are typixally 7-wide, US trains typically 8-wide.

--Tony

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

So, for me, at 1:48 US O Gauge, UK and European trains are typixally 7-wide, US trains typically 8-wide.

--Tony

This is quite correct also in my opinion!

[ust60]

I'm not a railroad professional. My knowledge of railways is being read. Most read at Wikipedia.

I think a 7 (seven) wide, for example, a diesel locomotive can still drive on the same system, such as a 6 (six) wide original Lego - Lok. It's just my taste talking here. Not my ambition. Lego is my hobby now because my eyes need reading glasses. Today I need a digital vernier caliper / slide gauge because I can read the large display better.

When I was younger I got my truck models built himself. Measure accurately to 0.05 mm. At his own machines.

When Lego - Train, I see that much more relaxed to days. Primarily has to like. Lego is and remains primarily a child's toy. If you try a special Lok to recreate as a model, it's nice when other Lego model builder to "recognize" them the original. See currently Sérgio Monster CP1900

Wiki writes track width of the German railway - Rails = 1435 mm.

The dimensions of the steam locomotive BR 23, according to Wiki:

Length over buffers = 21,325 mm

Height = 4,550 mm

Width = 3.050 mm

that is: The locomotive is at its widest point, twice as wide as the rail tracks below.

There is a saying in German. I do not whether you can translate it. I know him from my grandmother: "Not nice is nice, liked makes you beautiful ( creates beauty).

Best regards Udo

I almost forgot. A locomotive must be functional, is in my opinion the most important. I do not build locomotives for glass showcases, they have to narrow Lego - drive curves, and turnouts

Edited April 24, 2014 by ust60

[jmchisel]

Carl, as always your models inspire me to get out of any micro-dark-age I might be in.

But this time, you've really gone and done it. Your comparison shots have shown me that 7-wide is the way to go. Up until now I have been afraid to take the plunge because of the parts requirements (particularly plates - e.g. carriage bases) but everything just seems to sit so well!

I'm slowly working on a 1980's French diorama/layout (inspired by the orange HE/TGV prototype) so if anyone notices a shortage of orange plates/parts on Bricklink, apologies; that'll be me rebuilding the Horizon Express in 7 x 44!

[Man with a hat]

Thank you for showing us. Amazing to see the exactness of your 7 wide models.

It convinces me even more that 7-wide is a perfect size for LEGO trains.