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Mister Phes

List the Female Minifigure Leaders

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Most themes that doesn't have a media story advestising depends on whether TLG have made a clear hint in physical products. City is the most generic theme, while some other action/space themes are occasional. Their gender issue they have is the ratio of female minifigures in general.

Friends and Ninjago focus on a group of team, so it's still reasonable to count them all. Olivia and Kai are the newest addtion of their own team at first in the media story. Chima's storyline clearly focuses on Laval so Eris can only be called a deuteragonist, not a leading one. Belville's story booklets featured the princesses.

Yes, she is a protagonist of a story, which is pretty rare in Lego licenses even though her license is underrated.

Offtopic: among the Disney ones, Rapunzel is obviously the future ruler and Cinderella leads rats, but Merida isn't ensured due to her cultural backrground? Not sure what's Princess Storm's title in her own Castle era.

I'm not very familiar with Medieval elements, do most Castle themes hint that kings are the leaders and queens are their wife? Or some of the minifigures might be the empress and the prince consort?

I don't think there has been a clearly identified protagonist leader in any of the Space factions or themes since the Chief on Ice Planet. Some have been named but I don't think the ranks have been well defined. Castle has been pretty universally King and Queen/Wife, if just going by the crowns. Even the Troll faction.

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We risk straying into the debate about girls play differently which is why they have a different power structure in the girl themes …regardless, Dora the Explorer is a named theme leader, why does she not qualify?

:classic:

I'm not overly familiar with Dora the Explorer but do the other characters refer to her as their leader?

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I hate to admit I know this, but she is considered the main character/leader. So that would be a yes.

Well the main character or protagonist isn't necessarily a leader, but if she has subordinate who follow her commands then that would make her a leader.

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Would you consider her talking backpack, map, monkey, and all those animals that follow her lead subordinate?

Definitely... We should incorporate those ideas into a future LEGO Pirates sub-theme. :pir-grin:

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Castle has been pretty universally King and Queen/Wife, if just going by the crowns. Even the Troll faction.

Yes, I didn't think about that the kings do wear big crown-helmets, which looks like the highest rank. Maybe empress's would appear when TLC come up with a new design of crown with hair for empress's?

Generally since empress's have been in real world for long time, the lack of leading ladies (both in throne or in army) is still not a good thing.

I'm not overly familiar with Dora the Explorer but do the other characters refer to her as their leader?

Well, so she's leading the story, isn't she?

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Well, so she's leading the story, isn't she?

It seems some of you don't understand the difference between a leader and a protagonist.

The protagonist (lead character) is not necessarily a leader...

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Guys and girls, I was hoping this wouldnt go on for so long, no offense to OP, but its a silly debate. WHEN YOU PLAY/CREATE/BUILD WITH LEGO, YOU DETERMINE A MINIFIG'S STATUS. Of all your ninjas, you could easily put a lady face on any of them, and any one of them you choose could be the leader. I know licensed sets are taken from a story, so those have male or female specific leaders, but in the "Yellow" lego world, gender is muuuuuuch more neutral. We need to stop talking about inequality in lego, and just build it equal, cause we can. OP, sorry about this, in your defense, it is a simple question that others dont seem to understand, I get it, I know what you're asking, Dora is not a leader of anything, but I just cant accept the idea of lego people having set roles determined by the company.

Edited by autorazr

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Wonder Woman (DC Superhero)

I was going to suggest her, but she is subject to her mother (Hippolyte) who is Queen of the Amazons. As a member of the Justice League, she does not lead it, although I would say she shares power with the others.

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I get it, I know what you're asking, Dora is not a leader of anything, but I just cant accept the idea of lego people having set roles determined by the company.

To put things into perspective the Pirates Line has always had a "named" general or admiral. Castle has had named heros like knights. So Lego does have "guiding" stories to help kids creativity make up the stories during play.

As part of our discussion on the pirates forum we wondered if there had been any such characters (in a leadership role) the boss if you will that was a female. In pirates it has been basically limited to a pirate "wenches" and female Islanders and a governors daughter. (but don't quote me on this I am not sure, and only heard of them referred that way in passing.)

You are right though people can project anything they like by creating there own. This was never an attack on Lego for not promoting their female minifigs. Just a curiosity that needed answering. It was never a debate.

AB

Edited by Admiral Blockbeard

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There’s actually a female leader in the Pirates theme, and she is even in charge of her own group of soldiers.

Miss Miranda Valentina is in charge of the imperial soldiers in the water ski shows. Admittedly, she is still the admiral’s daughter, but her father is a no-show.

You can take a look at it if you want to here:

It’s a bit of a tangent, but I think it’s the best we can get in this case.

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You are right though people can project anything they like by creating there own. This was never an attack on Lego for not promoting their female minifigs. Just a curiosity that needed answering. It was never a debate.

AB

It needs to be though, you say its not an attack, but yet by pointing out the poor ratio, you are revealing gender inequality in a product in which there doesnt need to be any, if you use it right. People will see this discussion and use it as a tool in that debate, and theyll win the debate that there is a gender bias in lego, there is not, the bias is in your own imagination. You can say that there are named characters in the sets, but the Lego Movie suggests that the sets arent meant to be taken literally. Obviously this convo was started with some intention to reveal this bias, I just want to play devil's advocate and suggest, there is no need to count powerful women in lego because they are indeed as powerful as you make them.

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There’s actually a female leader in the Pirates theme, and she is even in charge of her own group of soldiers.

Thank you for sharing this video, I hadn't previously seen it.

But it certainly is a stretch... Even if the performance takes place at a LEGOLand it's hardly canonical to the toyline as Miss Miranda Valentina is human rather than a minifigure and there is no mention of her in the products or associated media.

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Okay, I can confirm that Gypsy Moth was the Queen of the Zotaxians in Insectoids, she also commanded the mining operations that the theme was based upon. (So says the DK Minifigure Year by Year). One could argue that Princess Storm and Queen Leonora were co-rulers.

Helena Tova Skvalling was a free-agent and not exactly connected to any ranking system, I think the media even had it that she pulled Jake out of a jam in PQ.

Radia, being the communications officer and seeing as team lead Dash was out on missions would be command/mission control in Alpha Team.

Exo Force Golden City sets had Keiken kidnapped and Hitomi put in the lead (and thus only ever appearing in one set with no mech...)

You could swing it that Roller Derby girl is team captain.

Lotta Brix is the press on the scene for Alien Conquest.

Most of it is contextual to playtimes though. I will say now, Pippin Reed had a lot more say in the Adventure than Johnny Thunder when it was my playtime and Jet headed up everything for a long time.

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It seems some of you don't understand the difference between a leader and a protagonist. The protagonist (lead character) is not necessarily a leader...

Yes, I think I'm pretty confused by your definition of "leader of a sub-theme". :look:

WHEN YOU PLAY/CREATE/BUILD WITH LEGO, YOU DETERMINE A MINIFIG'S STATUS.

Correct to a degree. We know we can tell the status of minifigures because there have been more and more official Lego stories that tell who the minifigures are, such as "master builders" from TLM. Sometimes even if it's not about characters, from the parts that minifigures of sets hold, we can also tell that the female one isn't the no.1. Unless you swap parts or make customizations.

To put things into perspective the Pirates Line has always had a "named" general or admiral. Castle has had named heros like knights. So Lego does have "guiding" stories to help kids creativity make up the stories during play.

Recent Pirate may not be the worst gender-biased case of the bunch, at least there have been some pirate ladies and mermaids. Having a pirate queen is another story.

The Admiral's Daughter (Miranda?) is an uncertain character. From the set appearances she doesn't look like a leading role, but more like a necessary damsel in distress (though it's not like a Castle Princess's most of who are prisoned far,far away). Obviously the Legoland live shows need a parody character of Elizabeth Swann. :grin: The problem of Pirates is that the army side doesn't have any lady who are active in fighting. The soldiers are all typically male.

Edited by Dorayaki

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Yes, I think I'm pretty confused by your definition of "leader of a sub-theme". :look:

Correct to a degree. We know we can tell the status of minifigures because there have been more and more official Lego stories that tell who the minifigures are, such as "master builders" from TLM. Sometimes even if it's not about characters, from the parts that minifigures of sets hold, we can also tell that the female one isn't the no.1. Unless you swap parts or make customizations.

Recent Pirate may not be the worst gender-biased case of the bunch, at least there have been some pirate ladies and mermaids. Having a pirate queen is another story.

The Admiral's Daughter (Miranda?) is an uncertain character. From the set appearances she doesn't look like a leading role, but more like a necessary damsel in distress (though it's not like a Castle Princess's most of who are prisoned far,far away). Obviously the Legoland live shows need a parody character of Elizabeth Swann. :grin: The problem of Pirates is that the army side doesn't have any lady who are active in fighting. The soldiers are all typically male.

Take "male" pirate soldier body, remove head, give it "female" head (or hair)...boom, female pirate soldier

take "male" pirate captain, remove head, give it "female" head (or hair)...boom, female pirate captain

is it the adult collector mentality that makes ya'll think this way? Can you not look at a lego Bilbo and see potential to make something else? Or do you just want a little Bilbo to sit on your desk? Maybe I'm just different, there isnt a single assembled set or minifig in my collection, everything gets used to make something else, lego does not dictate the gender or status of my creations, nor should they (and I dont think they intend to)

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Take "male" pirate soldier body, remove head, give it "female" head (or hair)...boom, female pirate soldier

take "male" pirate captain, remove head, give it "female" head (or hair)...boom, female pirate captain

is it the adult collector mentality that makes ya'll think this way? Can you not look at a lego Bilbo and see potential to make something else? Or do you just want a little Bilbo to sit on your desk? Maybe I'm just different, there isnt a single assembled set or minifig in my collection, everything gets used to make something else, lego does not dictate the gender or status of my creations, nor should they (and I dont think they intend to)

This is a common argument and one that I think deserves a refutation.

Yes, Lego is a creative medium and one that is easily customizable. But Lego puts an awful lot of work into the stories behind their themes, and it's for a reason—the theme's pre-packaged story and characters are a jumping-off point for builders (especially kids) to draw inspiration from for their own creations. Yet, as this topic is revealing, these pre-formed stories only rarely include female figs in leadership roles (at least compared to their male counterparts). And girls and boys alike often want figs that they can relate to. Yes, a girl can swap Brickbeard's head with that of the female Pirate crewmate if she wants the captain to be a girl like her—but why should she be forced to change her figs around while a boy doesn't have to change a thing?

The importance of diversity in Lego's themes only becomes more important in themes like Ninjago which have a heavy media component. A girl can put Nya's head on one of the Ninja, but that doesn't change what the Ninja look or act like in the TV show or graphic novels. In themes such as these, minifigures represent discrete characters, so while crafting your own characters and story is still possible it can put your story at odds with the one your classmates and friends are watching on TV and discussing at recess.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with disassembling your figs and creating your own characters. But there's nothing wrong with leaving your figs together as the characters they were designed to be either. For this reason it's worth considering whether Lego's female fans are given as much choice between the two, or whether they're unfairly forced to do the former just to represent themselves in the themes they like most.

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Take "male" pirate soldier body, remove head, give it "female" head (or hair)...boom, female pirate soldier

take "male" pirate captain, remove head, give it "female" head (or hair)...boom, female pirate captain

is it the adult collector mentality that makes ya'll think this way? Can you not look at a lego Bilbo and see potential to make something else? Or do you just want a little Bilbo to sit on your desk? Maybe I'm just different, there isnt a single assembled set or minifig in my collection, everything gets used to make something else, lego does not dictate the gender or status of my creations, nor should they (and I dont think they intend to)

Sorry, I'm mostly with Lyichir. The brick toys were originally "neutral", but we can't deny that those pre-packaged action themes are pretty unbalanced, and this topic is mostly about the default stories. The more detailed stories help designers to focus on more detailed minifigures and parts, but pros come with cons, it restricts common consumers to make pure customization based on the presumed stories. (i.e, You want to create a Ninjago ninja girl but there are no parts of an exclusive color for you to choose, unless you recolor them.)

Action theme stories are extreme examples, now back to the topic. Since TLG now tend to provide more detailed designs, visually not all pure customizations could make the best effects. If TLG is capable of making detailed female leaders, why couldn't we expect it?

The only problem I can think of is that typical soldiers have been lacking ladies, and TLG doesn't have to break that typical illusion (even if you just swap his head for "hers", it still looks abit strange). Adimiral's daughter is the only feasible way to add female addition to soldiers. Or it's mostly that the army is led by female royalty.

And BTW, not to talk about the upcoming new Pirate ship, CMF series have been providing many obvious female leaders and it doesn't have gender marketing issue. Sice there was a male Pirate Captain, an Admiral Lady or Pirate Villianess in future series is expectable. (Well... though TLC would likely reuse Angelica's hairpiece in hat.)

Edited by Dorayaki

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If it looks strange to you to put a female head on a male body, you have issues, sorry, but youre way too invested in the way a body looks. I can see it being strange to put a male head on one of the newer specifically female bodies, seeing as those have hips and bossoms, but I take issue with that, as it suggests there is only one female body type. In most of my customizations, I 86 the female bods altogether and use male bodies as they present a body image in which everyone is square, which is hard to equate to reality. If you spend time analyzing the gender bias of what is meant to be enjoyed as an "anything is possible" toy, you will ruin the experience of that toy. I cant say anymore, I wont respond again, you either get it or you dont. Everyones (in reality) skintone, body size and shape, height, hair color, eye color, cant be represented accurately in lego. There are 3 skin tones and yellow, there are two body types, male and female, if you restrict yourself to these you wont be able to make anything close to real, but that should not be the goal. If lego wanted to be a reflection of real world diversity they would have to introduce a dozen more skintone colors and body types, they cant and shouldnt, you should be able to mix and match to make what you need. Again, there is a gender bias in marketing this product because it is, more so, intended for boys, as suggested by the fact that there is a "girls" line, I do not endorse this separation, but I recognize that this is a way to more effectively market a product and maximize profit, which you cant blame lego for wanting to do. Again I am done, I have made my point clear and I feel I am reaching no one, sooooooo, peace out. Imma go enjoy lego without worrying about gender bias, cause I'm only limited by my own biases and imagination.

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If it looks strange to you to put a female head on a male body

A female head would look great on this body...

post-273-0-78262800-1397613926_thumb.jpg

:pir-grin:

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A female head would look great on this body...

post-273-0-78262800-1397613926_thumb.jpg

:pir-grin:

you baited me back in with this man. There are 2, count em 2, shirtless male bodies in yellow, and I'm no fool, of course they would look strange. Now I'm gonna stop trying to be nice, you're a weirdo who would do anything to disprove what I'm saying, so much so you found the one (of the 2) examples in which I might be wrong. All I'm suggesting is you tools be creative, what you tools are suggesting, is that we shouldnt build with lego, we should pull it out of the box, build it and whine about the lack of diversity. There is no valid follow up to this point, I'm truly done, you can try to dig up a few more undoubtedly male muscly bodies if you want but it wont mean anything to me or my point. Take a look at some of the stuff I post, and some of the stuff those I respect post, in making a custom batgirl, they wouldnt care that the lego batman toros has male muscles, cause they have imagination and a drive to make things and be able to see them with open, creative eyes. :wink: No hard feelings guys, I just think you're totally weird (and maybe a little sexist)

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I'm sorry I called you guys tools, I got a little too hot. I dont want to fight anymore, I just wanted to apologize, I'll go away now.

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you baited me back in with this man. There are 2, count em 2, shirtless male bodies in yellow, and I'm no fool, of course they would look strange. Now I'm gonna stop trying to be nice, you're a weirdo who would do anything to disprove what I'm saying, so much so you found the one (of the 2) examples in which I might be wrong. All I'm suggesting is you tools be creative, what you tools are suggesting, is that we shouldnt build with lego, we should pull it out of the box, build it and whine about the lack of diversity. There is no valid follow up to this point, I'm truly done, you can try to dig up a few more undoubtedly male muscly bodies if you want but it wont mean anything to me or my point. Take a look at some of the stuff I post, and some of the stuff those I respect post, in making a custom batgirl, they wouldnt care that the lego batman toros has male muscles, cause they have imagination and a drive to make things and be able to see them with open, creative eyes. :wink: No hard feelings guys, I just think you're totally weird (and maybe a little sexist)

I'm sure everyone here is capable of doing so, but that is not what we are arguing.

It is mostly a societal thing. Having someone else believe in the female lead (TLG in this case) and making it so in sets is better than girls having to use their imagination to do so. IT sends a message that females in charge exist outside the imagination.

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