Future Set Wishes and Speculation

[eric trax]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:56 PM, Dami said:

Volvo Grader with Control+, and RC Speed Transmission Gearbox, for $260, around 2200 pieces

 

I guess you won't have to wait that long. All you need to do is buy 42114 set, custom stickers and building instructions for my B model in two weeks ;)

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-83625/M_longer/42114-volvo-g990-grader/#details

 

On 7/13/2021 at 10:56 PM, Dami said:

Winter Wave

Licensed Tractor (maybe John Deere) for $100, with Function Switch gearbox around 1200 pieces

Summer Wave (June)

Class Lexion 8900 for $170, with Functions Switch Gearbox, around 2000 pieces

I'm pretty sure you're right. The next new sizes of agricultural tires did not come about by accident.

Edited August 6, 2021 by eric trax

[1gor]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:56 PM, Dami said:

 

Licensed Tractor (maybe John Deere) for $100, with Function Switch gearbox around 1200 pieces

Summer Wave (August)

Class Lexion 8900 for $170, with Functions Switch Gearbox, around 2000 pieces

Borh are now possible with 107 and 81mm tractor tires. Such lexion could fit Xerion. I remember in @Jim's review of Xerion 5 years ago he mentioned that Xerion tires will be great for front tires on combine harvester; so he was kind of clairvoyant (in terms of tire sizes) 

[Dami]

2 hours ago, eric trax said:

I'm pretty sure you're right. The next new sizes of agricultural tires did not come about by accident.

Agree, they have Claas license, they make a new Tractor Tires sizes. I Think Lexion is confirmed in some time

Edited July 22, 2021 by Dami

[Maaboo the Witch]

I really hope the Monster Jam pullbacks continue into 2022 - personally, I think Sudden Impact would be a great choice for one of the next sets. Why? Because BLUE TYRES.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Maaboo35

[AVCampos]

While blue tyres look cool, I hope LEGO doesn't produce them: SPIKE Prime wheels look pretty only when new, and get dirty and ugly in an instant.

[thekoRngear]

A 1:10 scale car/jeep with sequential/manual gearbox with AWD with play-able steering (with no stickers) is all I wish to see in 2022 besides all the C+ sloths and the next 1:8 scale (almost good for nothing) supercar.

[Void_S]

2 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

A 1:10 scale car/jeep with sequential/manual gearbox with AWD with play-able steering (with no stickers) is all I wish to see in 2022 besides all the C+ sloths and the next 1:8 scale (almost good for nothing) supercar.

Nice wish, but I am afraid it may cross the LEGO plans to keep 1:10 scale as simipified vehicles with engine+steering+suspension comparing to 1:8.

Only it would be a roomy inside like Defender was, as the gearboxes and complicated transmissions, in general, consume a lot of space, and "flat supercars" may simply appear to be too small to fit them. 

[syclone]

3 hours ago, Void_S said:

Nice wish, but I am afraid it may cross the LEGO plans to keep 1:10 scale as simipified vehicles with engine+steering+suspension comparing to 1:8.

Only it would be a roomy inside like Defender was, as the gearboxes and complicated transmissions, in general, consume a lot of space, and "flat supercars" may simply appear to be too small to fit them. 

Perhaps if they spent some development money into new clutches and gearbox gears instead of all this C+/new panels/other weird non-functional stuff we could get more compact and realistic gearboxes  But nah, they still use (almost) the same stuff as ~30 years ago... at least we finally got the 20t gear and 28t (sort of, assuming the new disassembled differential can be used that way). 
As far as simple 1:10 cars go - I see no reason for them to be kept simple, the Flexari was basically a rolling hole due to that.

[thekoRngear]

@Void_S @syclone It often wonders me who are these people Lego targets with 18+ concept?
Someone (sarcasm and humor included)

• who does not like beautiful (although sometimes unnecessarily exciting) background, instead they prefer dark and black one
• who is not too inclined to build a detailed headlight because last time they had had hard time with Defender's lights. They think slapping a sticker would be cool! 
• who thinks gearbox is not needed at all
• who thinks building and having fun is all. Lets have it rest in peace in the shelves (and maybe rebuild it 6 months later)

Thanks God! They don't mind play-able steering 
About the last point, I think it is possible to slap a really simple yet cough....18+ effective gearbox with just 2 speeds. I agree and I know the transmission of Defender was complicated and required 100% attention for building the chassis (please those who got it right, don't come up with it was simple, you cant follow instructions bla bla bla please stay away, this post is not for you), a millimeter's misalignment and the gearbox goes wrong. However, this cannot happen if an abovementioned type of gearbox is introduced.

My concern is even though it maybe okay to have the 1:8 lard scale supercars mainly 18+ and display queenies, the rest of the scale cars like Flexari and Raptor did not have to follow the same path. Yes, there are people (probably) who demand less costly 1:8-ish display cars however, I am afraid Lego will soon turn a crane to a display queen too where they used to happily put a distribution gearbox couple a years ago 😛 Dare I say, we might see a movable/turnable cup-holder in between seats for the 2022 Supercars with extreme level of details (that may need a mod by jb70 lol).
I personally have had hard times with Defender's gearbox. So, I started to build it right from the scratch with many micro-mods with a way simple gearbox that probably is laughable to some. But it does okay, it steers both ways, it's AWD, it has 3 diffs, has (now) super-simple gearbox and drivetrain, has the same gorgeous suspension, has even more gorgeous body details. A proper 18+ set from my perspective.

We need more (simplified) Defenders!

Edited August 16, 2021 by thekoRngear

[allanp]

I think I understand now. While 18+ to me should mean "next level" builds for the AFOL (no colour coding, realistic mechanics etc), I think what it actually means is "nice decoration for the shelf" for adults that are not already fans of Lego.

[AVCampos]

I still don't understand what's the problem with colour coding, as long as it's not visible in the final product.

[Bartybum]

15 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

I still don't understand what's the problem with colour coding, as long as it's not visible in the final product.

I have no issues with colour coding but it is visible in the final product

[1974]

35 minutes ago, allanp said:

I think I understand now. While 18+ to me should mean "next level" builds for the AFOL (no colour coding, realistic mechanics etc), I think what it actually means is "nice decoration for the shelf" for adults that are not already fans of Lego.

Correct. That and black boxes. Can't have grownups getting embarrassed at the checkout line with kiddie toy, can we

LEGO is "cool" now. That's the segment they're going after. They allready got the kids and the AFOLs

[Void_S]

32 minutes ago, allanp said:

I think what it actually means is "nice decoration for the shelf" for adults that are not already fans of Lego

Just my thoughts as well. It reminded me of Deagostiny and others "build your scaled model" vendors, which provide the set of parts, then you assemble them, put the result on a shelf or desktop, and enjoy its appearance.

I just can't divide the meaning of having these sets and Creator Expert - personally, I would prefer their combination, like amazingly detailed bodywork with some basic technical functions.

 

[syclone]

1 hour ago, AVCampos said:

I still don't understand what's the problem with colour coding, as long as it's not visible in the final product.

I just ticks me off. Their marketing is "18+" and "Build for real", yet they insist that real cars look like this?  gtfo

Besides, Technic used to have most parts black/other neutral colour which was easy to hide, even if some pins were poking onto the outside - now every pin has to be a different bright colour because we're apprently de-evolutioned this much to not be able to differentiate them by other means (don't get me wrong, I know of people who have a hard time doing so because of a condition/other reasons, I'm just saying what is  generally true, especially for fans who grew up building that way).
Then we have part reusability - you need to work around these crappy colourings to hide them as much as possible to get a good look. And no, they're still visible, even the top-of-the-line Sian has blue pins poking through a (several shades of) lime bodywork 

Aaaand, other themes get parts recoloured to make the outside looks even (look at theose HP glasses using black 2L axles. And what about Technic? NOTHING. What was the last time we got a specifically coloured pin/axle or a bush/half/bush to match the bodywork??? No, apparently Technic fans are absolute wimps that won't be a able to find a (eg.) lime pin that most liley would be a placed in a separate bag anyway! Oh, and make sure the axles are also some bright colour so a kid who should be building Duplo could build this 18+ set!!!!

Edited August 9, 2021 by syclone

[howitzer]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

I think what it actually means is "nice decoration for the shelf" for adults that are not already fans of Lego.

If you look at the various sets branded as 18+, this is exactly what it is. Grand piano, The Typewriter, Botanical Collection, Art, etc. are indeed first and foremost decorations, while stuff like the two Friends sets and Sesame Street are mostly nostalgia trips for adults who want to relive their youth (and as such, will never see much of actual playing with). As for the Technic 18+ sets, they fulfill the minimal requirements to count as Technic. Even the Sian, while it has complex gearbox and suspension setup, is almost without play value as the functions are not that easy or nice to operate and generally cars in that size are too large to comfortably play with. So it should be obvious that 18+ has nothing to do with difficulty, complexity or mature topics (as in violence or sexuality), it's simply meant to appeal to certain new segment of customers, like @1974 pointed out.

[allanp]

20 hours ago, AVCampos said:

I still don't understand what's the problem with colour coding, as long as it's not visible in the final product.

It looks like childish shit. I want the inside of a gearbox to look and be like the inside of a real gearbox, like this F1 gearbox:

Look how elegantly simple, efficient and easy to understand that is, no colour coding required. With all the gears being different sizes you literally can't build it wrong because the gears will only fit together the correct way. Compare that to this 8 speed gearbox:

Colour coded to buggery and with more parts and complexity than the real thing, it's still undecipherable and is still prone to people making mistakes and doesn't show how a real gearbox works and does not look or feel like an 18+ product and with it's high friction, reliability issues and overall sloppyness/backlash, it doesn't feel like a quality product either. It's an expensive model aimed at adults that in reality feels like a cheap toy for kids. Colour coding represents a lazy, unimaginative, cost cutting, corporate alternative to a much better solution.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by allanp

[bonox]

12 hours ago, allanp said:

I think I understand now. While 18+ to me should mean "next level" builds for the AFOL (no colour coding, realistic mechanics etc), I think what it actually means is "nice decoration for the shelf" for adults that are not already fans of Lego.

[technicfan20]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

Look how elegantly simple, efficient and easy to understand that is, no colour coding required. With all the gears being different sizes you literally can't build it wrong because the gears will only fit together the correct way. Compare that to this 8 speed gearbox:

Is this really the solution, to make any special gear you need to get a perfectly realistic gearbox (or other mechanism)? Nowadays you could 3d print everything, but I guess the real challenge is to find an efficient mechanism with the parts you have (just look at the awesome gearbox designs here on EB). In my opinion, the appeal of LEGO compared to scale models or other specialized toys (like RC cars) has always been the flexibility to build almost anything with a limited set of parts. Of course, then the LEGO solutions might be more complex or bulky, and surely they perform worse (its plastic after all). I guess, TLG opened a can of worms by introducing so many special parts lately (to name a few: stronger diffs just for RC models, planetary wheel hubs, maybe even beams with alternate pin holes, ...). I get the impression, that now people demand that there should be every possible part in every possible color.

Regarding the color coding: Yes, I also built my first Technic models without any color coding (and I made mistakes ...), but the models had like 1500 parts maximum. Nowadays you have 4000+ part behemoths and I (as a somewhat experienced technic builder) really like to have some colored hints to get the orientation right or to not miss a step so easily. TLGs customer support will really know what the main issues are. Just look at all the threads about gearbox problems of the 42114 here on EB and estimate how many calls they probably got from people, who do not even know that this forum exists. Even if many AFOLs cannot imagine it, it seems that building LEGO can be a real challenge for normal people without any disabilities. If you want to reach non-AFOL adults, the building experience has to be nice and not frustrating, and they probably do not play much with their models. But they can afford any other hobby ...

Edited August 9, 2021 by technicfan20

[Glaysche]

This discussion about color coding has been going on for a very long time.  Obviously there are many opinions.  I think the color coding is good in sets. It does help making the assembly instructions more clear.  That being said, I would like the freedom to make my MOCs in the colors I want. The request I would ask of TLG is for them to also offer the key parts in other colors on Bricks & Pieces.  I think this would be the best of both worlds.  They can get the sales and reduced support volume from easier to follow instructions and AFOLs would also get what they want.  TLG would sell more parts from B&P.  Win, win, win.  The only downside from TLG's point of view is that they would need to stock more parts in their warehouses.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Glaysche

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

shit

How on Earth went that through Big Brother? Wait: Testing, testing, one tow three: Shit. SHIT.

Let's see what happens, when I press submit.

Okay, back on topic - two images, two worlds. I totally agree. I believe this is about 6 years-old pretending they have a) the money and b) produce the ID of mom or dad at store check-out.

Best and no offense
Thorsten

Hmm - the mods must have adjusted the Big Brother thing. Shit goes through.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Toastie
The shit thing

[technicmath]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

It looks like childish shit. I want the inside of a gearbox to look and be like the inside of a real gearbox, like this 8 speed F1 gearbox:

 

Look how elegantly simple, efficient and easy to understand that is, no colour coding required. With all the gears being different sizes you literally can't build it wrong because the gears will only fit together the correct way. Compare that to this 8 speed gearbox:

 

Colour coded to buggery and with more parts and complexity than the real thing, it's still undecipherable and is still prone to people making mistakes and doesn't show how a real gearbox works and does not look or feel like an 18+ product and with it's high friction, reliability issues and overall sloppyness/backlash, it doesn't feel like a quality product either. It's an expensive model aimed at adults that in reality feels like a cheap toy for kids. Colour coding represents a lazy, unimaginative, cost cutting, corporate alternative to a much better solution.

 

23 minutes ago, technicfan20 said:

Is this really the solution, to make any special gear you need to get a perfectly realistic gearbox (or other mechanism)? Nowadays you could 3d print everything, but I guess the real challenge is to find an efficient mechanism with the parts you have (just look at the awesome gearbox designs here on EB). In my opinion, the appeal of LEGO compared to scale models or other specialized toys (like RC cars) has always been the flexibility to build almost anything with a limited set of parts. Of course, then the LEGO solutions might be more complex or bulky, and surely they perform worse (its plastic after all). I guess, TLG opened a can of worms by introducing so many special parts lately (to name a few: stronger diffs just for RC models, planetary wheel hubs, maybe even beams with alternate pin holes, ...). I get the impression, that now people demand that there should be every possible part in every possible color.

Regarding the color coding: Yes, I also built my first Technic models without any color coding (and I made mistakes ...), but the models had like 1500 parts maximum. Nowadays you have 4000+ part behemoths and I (as a somewhat experienced technic builder) really like to have some colored hints to get the orientation right or to not miss a step so easily. TLGs customer support will really know what the main issues are. Just look at all the threads about gearbox problems of the 42114 here on EB and estimate how many calls they probably got from people, who do not even know that this forum exists. Even if many AFOLs cannot imagine it, it seems that building LEGO can be a real challenge for normal people without any disabilities. If you want to reach non-AFOL adults, the building experience has to be nice and not frustrating, and they probably do not play much with their models. But they can afford any other hobby ...

I made a realistic gearbox here:

This gearbox has 4 gears, has a realistic setup, can handle very high torque, fits in the studless grid construction and runs with very low friction.

It would be even better if Lego made a 24 tooth clutch gear, which is in my opinion actually more useful than the 20 tooth clutch gear.

 

[weavil]

8 hours ago, allanp said:

It looks like childish shit.

Well look at my post of my failed (for now) car and I made a smaller version of the Bugatti one.

I had to tweak it a bit to fit for the 8448 remake.

 

Back on topic, I want a set that has these with an axle hole instead of a pin hole (and maybe in red).

 

I could have used it in my contest build.

[Bricktrain]

31 minutes ago, weavil said:

 

 

 

Back on topic, I want a set that has these with an axle hole instead of a pin hole (and maybe in red).

 

I could have used it in my contest build.

I have been wanting those for a long time, still waiting and hoping that one day they will turn up. Red wouldn't be my colour choice though, either of the Bleys or Black would be fine.

[allanp]

8 hours ago, technicfan20 said:

Is this really the solution, to make any special gear you need to get a perfectly realistic gearbox (or other mechanism)? Nowadays you could 3d print everything, but I guess the real challenge is to find an efficient mechanism with the parts you have (just look at the awesome gearbox designs here on EB). In my opinion, the appeal of LEGO compared to scale models or other specialized toys (like RC cars) has always been the flexibility to build almost anything with a limited set of parts. Of course, then the LEGO solutions might be more complex or bulky, and surely they perform worse (its plastic after all). I guess, TLG opened a can of worms by introducing so many special parts lately (to name a few: stronger diffs just for RC models, planetary wheel hubs, maybe even beams with alternate pin holes, ...). I get the impression, that now people demand that there should be every possible part in every possible color.

Regarding the color coding: Yes, I also built my first Technic models without any color coding (and I made mistakes ...), but the models had like 1500 parts maximum. Nowadays you have 4000+ part behemoths and I (as a somewhat experienced technic builder) really like to have some colored hints to get the orientation right or to not miss a step so easily. TLGs customer support will really know what the main issues are. Just look at all the threads about gearbox problems of the 42114 here on EB and estimate how many calls they probably got from people, who do not even know that this forum exists. Even if many AFOLs cannot imagine it, it seems that building LEGO can be a real challenge for normal people without any disabilities. If you want to reach non-AFOL adults, the building experience has to be nice and not frustrating, and they probably do not play much with their models. But they can afford any other hobby ...

Now THIS is how you argue. Good points well made, thank you!

This touches on the specialised parts discussion. The thing is, Lego started out with simple bricks to make mostly just buildings. Real life buildings are made of generic bricks, wood and things like that, all generic items. But cars and vehicles in general aren't like that. The majority of their components are specialized. But of course, Technic shouldn't be made of specialized parts only. That would negate the whole point of it being Lego. But I would say that the Technic theme should allow a little more room for specialized parts than other brick based themes. For those that don't like specialized parts, well that's cool, you don't have to use them. But the option could be there for those that do want to. The vast bulk of a model such as the chassis and bodywork doesn't need specialized parts. Besides, do we really need another type of wheel arch (to collect in all colours), another bit of trim to attach to a wheel arch, a new type of connector peg or panel etc. The F1 gearbox shows how the 3 stud long drive ring could be reduced right down in length, to 1 stud ideally (pretty sure the diff lock in the Zetros enguages with less than half a stud) You could have an 8 speed gearbox in the length of 12 studs (more if you want to add extra bracing for motorised models), it would be way better and much simpler to the point that younger fans could build an 8 speed gearbox into their own MOCs. The gears could have their number of teeth moulded into them, like the numbers on panels, to reduce mistakes as the manual would directly call out that number, combined with the fact that they are all different sizes an can only really go together the correct way, and have that gearbox stage in its own bag of parts to make it more mistake proof. Gotta be better than a brightly coloured gear in a sea of other brightly coloured parts where nothing stands out, because it all stands out! I do fully understand the arguments against too many specialized parts but I think in this case the benefits out weigh the negatives. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by allanp