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I totally agree with ZCerberus. Perhaps the reason why people are confused about GoH is because they are making it more complicated than it really is. The overarching story is quite easy to follow as it progresses quite slowly so I really can't understand how anyone can get confused by it as it all is easy to find within the first page of stickied topics. Everything else are GoH member's own individual stories that are NOT required to read to keep up with to stay up to date GoH even though they do often relate to the overarching story.

As far as starting another GoH knockoff for the pirate theme, I think instead it would be better to add an "expansion" so to speak to GoH. I think some people take Lego building too seriously and instead of using their imagination they want to make a simulator which will get boring very fast. With a little imagination, I'm sure someone could come up with a fairly satisfactory reason for guns and cannons to exist beside swords and spears. At least in many other fantasy media there never seems to be a problem.

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This sounds like a great idea. I signed up for GoH on the first day, but I never had time to do anything (I still don't). But I think Pirates could benefit from a similar treatment. I think the more important thing here is for everyone to have fun.

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You have excellent points and have brought great incite into the discussion. I believe what you have outlined is a start in the right direction.

Well as someone who has some experience in GoH...

1) The one thing it WILL certainly do is raise the skill level of builders. We had builders who started out on the very bottom level who have become absolute power MOCers. I think the big draw there is you can see what other people are doing and you can quickly learn a whole TON of new techniques.

This is one thing I really liked about GoH, I love to see people become better builders. I love The University of Petraea Doctorate Program, and would like to see something like that incorporated into this. I think it is a great service to the AFOL community.

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I think it'd be fun to participate. Factions could include soldiers, Spaniards, Islanders, and pirates. Or maybe factions from four different seas...pirate_look.gif

Maybe redcoats vs bluecoats vs pirates vs islanders like the tournament of retribution?

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I think it would be fun if the map was made to incorporate the existing lego map tiles.

Regarding the factions, I think it's really important that not all the factions be colonial powers. There are already three colonial powers built into the theme (Bluecoats, Redcoats, and Imperials). There is no reason not to make a faction made up of indigenous peoples so some MOCers can fight against colonialism.

I'm down with the idea of pirates acting as "free agents". There could be competitions or story events encouraging people to periodically build as pirates. Honestly though, it makes more sense to me to just have them as a faction.

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I really love this idea and I agree with the fantasy-world and factions thing. It should not be historic because that would limit the possibilities.

The world map could be the sea with several major and minor islands. Participants could own an island with cities and ports. So the ships and ship building would have an outstanding position but there is even a place for land based MOCs. pirate_satisfied.gif

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Wow! It seems to be finally happening. I'm very positively suprised, since the last thing I heard about this venture was, that it probably wouldn't happen with GoH still running. What changed your minds?

Personally I love the idea, for long now I've tempered with joining the Guilds, I love the ability of putting MOCs in a greater context, the entire framework that the Guilds are providing is simply remarkable. But it just lacks the piratey feeling, it's a different age, there aren't enough sails.

Getting this up and running is going to be a tough job, but the result will be worth it. And if I can provide some help along the way, I'll be willing to help.

Talking ideas, I'm more of a purist, so I'd split this world along the classic canon, Blue, Red, Armada, Pirates, Islanders, maybe sub-divided, with changing alliances, great sea and land battles (maybe even including gameplay à la Rocks and Shoals). So Classic Pirates + POTC, nothing too 'exotic'.

One last thing, I'm sure most of you will remember this discussion, with a lot of ground work and even including two maps (and story writing), that I think are worth talking about.

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Wow! It seems to be finally happening. I'm very positively suprised, since the last thing I heard about this venture was, that it probably wouldn't happen with GoH still running. What changed your minds?

Personally I love the idea, for long now I've tempered with joining the Guilds, I love the ability of putting MOCs in a greater context, the entire framework that the Guilds are providing is simply remarkable. But it just lacks the piratey feeling, it's a different age, there aren't enough sails.

Getting this up and running is going to be a tough job, but the result will be worth it. And if I can provide some help along the way, I'll be willing to help.

Talking ideas, I'm more of a purist, so I'd split this world along the classic canon, Blue, Red, Armada, Pirates, Islanders, maybe sub-divided, with changing alliances, great sea and land battles (maybe even including gameplay à la Rocks and Shoals). So Classic Pirates + POTC, nothing too 'exotic'.

One last thing, I'm sure most of you will remember this discussion, with a lot of ground work and even including two maps (and story writing), that I think are worth talking about.

Come join guilds it is fun. haha. But back to the discussion...

I just looked at those older threads (the one that is liked to the linked discussion above), it is funny that I said almost the same thing and don't even remember it.

Back to factions, I made a slight error when I first posted, because I forgot about natives. They could either be their own faction, or like the pirates, be free agents. I really think the main drivers should be the colonial powers, four factions, or three if natives are their own faction. The pirates as free agents would make for some interesting political dynamics. The only thing would be that the faction leaders would be stuck playing their faction the whole time, or at least until a new leader could be found. However, everyone else would be free to move around at times.

Even if that suggestion is not taken, I do think that the factions should be modeled after GoH's model and not LCC's. LCC limits the color and fig insignia used per faction. In GoH, anything goes with loose connections to insignia. If it becomes Redcoat, Bluecoat, Armada, that really limits what people can pick to join. Perhaps one nations royal troops are blue, but not every unit or every sailor should be wearing blue. Otherwise, this is just going to turn into ToR in map form, with little deviation. You want to have a dynamic setting, with people spread across factions, the best way to do this is allow anyone, no matter their collection preference to join any side they want.

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Cool, if Ska is in, I'm in too, in an opposing faction of course pirate_laugh_new.gif

Anyway, considering that the number of pirate builders is lower than the number of castle builders, I'd suggest to limit this to no more than three factions.

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I know this is a bold move but I'll say it anyway. I've been thinking a lot about this and the best thing that comes to my mind after Mike S mentioned cannons and guns existing with swords and magic in one place, was World of Warcraft! A softly steampunkish version of a mixture between pirates and castle. A completly new fictional universe where imperial soldiers, musketeers, chainmail warriors and knights could coexist, each with it's pros and cons. A world with a few big islands in the seas and even some islands floating in the air above them. Catapults, cannons, coaches, ships and even some flying machines mainly baloon vessels would all be possible. The same goes for different type of structures from big fortified castles to piraty hideouts ... This way we could connect all the castle and pirate builders together in one subforum. Maybe even lure in some sci-fi fans, but wouldn't go to wild into that direction.

This came to my mind, because thinking about what people could build in this pirate based game besides ships. After thinking about wars between factions it all comes to guard towers, fortresses that are very similar to castle builds. Then comes the training barracks, agrigultural structures and so on, which means that 80% of content might be very similar to GoH. The only difference would be the appearance of guns and cannons and a little more focus on ships and ports.

Now here come the main questions:

1. Does it make sense that the two so similar games exist at the same time? I doubt, since despite this being a big international forum, I think that lack of active players might be noticed in both after time. Some might switch, some might be undecided and join none. Some might join both and be inactive ...

2. Is there a way to incorporate the pirates game into GoH? I don't think that makes much sense, since cannons were forbiden in GoH and besides the one big continent makes little interest for naval forces to go out and explore the world. Besides GoH has gone on for so long that such hard changes might hurt the game.

3. (Now here comes the bold one and I'm expecting to get some rotten tomattoes thrown at me) Would it be possible that GoH comes to an end and an all new game is started that is bigger and better?!

I doubt that the last option even comes into consideration, but I think that a new WoW like universe I described above could be very cool! I know GoH is still running and has a lot of activity going on but still improvements could be made to it.

1. A RPG part could be included - something like choosing a race (that are predefined *) and maybe even a class for your character. Then there could be experience gained and to build up your character. I really like that idea from SoNE but it could be executed way better with a lot more meaning. Maybe even include some Heroica features into the game?

* as I've already mentioned I find all the SW characters weird in the GoH. It's abit too free from this perspective and some things don't make sense. I know it's a matter of taste and a subjective opinion but still I feel things could be more organized ...

2. The main goal of the new game would be to include the pirates universe with the castle one. This way maybe some more active players would join the game?

3. I imagine most of the current GoH players would join the new game and new players could learn from all their great builds in a new different universe. Plus, imagine all the current guild leaders joining forces with the pirates staff for new ideas and more help for working behind the scenes.

It's just some brainstorming that I had to write down so please don't hate me for mentioning the end of GoH, I know it's not going to happen ...

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Cool, if Ska is in, I'm in too, in an opposing faction of course pirate_laugh_new.gif

Anyway, considering that the number of pirate builders is lower than the number of castle builders, I'd suggest to limit this to no more than three factions.

No way, we are working together this time.

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Cool, if Ska is in, I'm in too, in an opposing faction of course pirate_laugh_new.gif

Anyway, considering that the number of pirate builders is lower than the number of castle builders, I'd suggest to limit this to no more than three factions.

Three or four factions would suffice, I myself would enroll as a pirate, that has been my real interest since I was a child, and now again when I came back from my dark years, Imperials or armada are really interesting, but nothing beat the feeling of freedom being a renegade agent, working only for the love of gold and adventure, a mercyless and bloodthirsty pirate!

I have always been more attached to the classic feel, as you have seen on every MOC I present you, old school classic pirates,...but PotC did get me again back to the lego world, so, I guess I'd work fine between both classic and fantasy worlds.

As soon as the "preparation forum" is open I'd be posting some of my ideas for this. Something that has been said here before and I found really interesting was the increase of build abilities, serious MOCing is something I have always wanted and this gives us all the right opportunity to obtain a higher level, which makes me wanna start here and right now! pirate_laugh2.gif

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I like the dynamic vision,

I'm often a bluecoat but I like to be a pirate every once in a while (actually I'm more pirate)

so I think choosing a faction should not limit anyone in that.

...and of course Islanders with Pirates for Sebeus.

Islanders! Yes please pirate_wink.gif .

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I know this is a bold move but I'll say it anyway. I've been thinking a lot about this and the best thing that comes to my mind after Mike S mentioned cannons and guns existing with swords and magic in one place, was World of Warcraft! A softly steampunkish version of a mixture between pirates and castle. A completly new fictional universe where imperial soldiers, musketeers, chainmail warriors and knights could coexist, each with it's pros and cons. A world with a few big islands in the seas and even some islands floating in the air above them. Catapults, cannons, coaches, ships and even some flying machines mainly baloon vessels would all be possible. The same goes for different type of structures from big fortified castles to piraty hideouts ... This way we could connect all the castle and pirate builders together in one subforum. Maybe even lure in some sci-fi fans, but wouldn't go to wild into that direction.

This came to my mind, because thinking about what people could build in this pirate based game besides ships. After thinking about wars between factions it all comes to guard towers, fortresses that are very similar to castle builds. Then comes the training barracks, agrigultural structures and so on, which means that 80% of content might be very similar to GoH. The only difference would be the appearance of guns and cannons and a little more focus on ships and ports.

Now here come the main questions:

1. Does it make sense that the two so similar games exist at the same time? I doubt, since despite this being a big international forum, I think that lack of active players might be noticed in both after time. Some might switch, some might be undecided and join none. Some might join both and be inactive ...

2. Is there a way to incorporate the pirates game into GoH? I don't think that makes much sense, since cannons were forbiden in GoH and besides the one big continent makes little interest for naval forces to go out and explore the world. Besides GoH has gone on for so long that such hard changes might hurt the game.

3. (Now here comes the bold one and I'm expecting to get some rotten tomattoes thrown at me) Would it be possible that GoH comes to an end and an all new game is started that is bigger and better?!

First off, I think your description is similar to how I already view GoH. I even tried adding a floating island concept to GoH. See here. Also GoH actually is more than one continent and more land/islands could always be "discovered":

8573146014_d3fb74307b_c.jpg

What I'm concerned about is that this project will temporarily cannibalize GoH since a lot of GoH builders are actually interested in Pirates so when this thing gets started they won't have enough time for both this and GoH. Even now with nothing else like this new "GoH" to steal their attention, guild leadership is fairly sparse atm. Being something new, I think that this will get a lot of activity the first few months while at the same time GoH will become nearly dead. I really don't see this and GoH running challenges at the same time. An idea that had been under consideration when leadership had been considering taking the GoH idea into other themes was putting GoH in freebuild mode while another themed "GoH" challenge was in progress.

2. The main goal of the new game would be to include the pirates universe with the castle one. This way maybe some more active players would join the game?

I think this is the ultimate solution not only for regular members but also to make it easier on leadership.

Edited by Mike S

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Well having two games run at the same time and one running the challange and the other being in "freebuild" mode is also an option, but I'm afraid it wouldn't work well. I think that everyone prefers challanges or missions or anything rewarding let it be tags, XP or some prizes. This might cause the "freebuild" game stagnate too much, and the players that wouldn't want to join both, would be there alone and loose interest even in the game they were sticking with.

I think that creating the ultimate game is the way to go!

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Mixing both "RPG Guilds" wouldnt be too attracting to me I guess... ultimately everyone would end up just playing GoH, like if it was just an expansion to an already huge game, which is not the point I think..

First of, If GoH is as huge and succesful as it is (and it really is, you cant deny it).. then it will survive everything else. And this whole idea is just for pirates, I am more than sure that peple that enjoy only castle building would not see with good eyes piratey stuff sticking to their game, neither people that just wanna see ship building...

Last, but not least, Pirates need a pump in my opinion, not only in people or MOCs, but in interest in the theme itself, and that pump would be provided by a fresh new start on this concept, which ATM is my only interest, guess I am not the only one pirate_classic.gif

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I like the dynamic vision,

I'm often a bluecoat but I like to be a pirate every once in a while (actually I'm more pirate)

Good point, but you could build some blucecoat privateers with their own ships and maybe hideouts. So your main faction is bluecoats and if you feel more "pirateish" you are able to build privateer stuff. pirate_laugh2.gif

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I too am a little worried about this project taking away builders from GoH. So it needs to work somewhat different.

In the end though, it all comes down to one's personal collection. Me just having participated in the team challenge showed me that I could do both just as several GoH builders participate in the Eurbricka project.

So I've just started on a colonial ketch, but also am finishing a caravel for GoH.

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I think that we should not consider the number of participants as a static amount to be shared between GoH, LCC and other "massive multi-builder online roleplaying games". Instead I think that the more this scene grows, the more builders will give it a try and as ZC demonstrates develop their skills in building and "playing" in this way.

Of course some core people might be "lost" to the other worlds but new people who are coming in might very well step up to be vital parts of the core GoH membership for years to come.

The idea of a joint GoH-pirate world is not very appealing if you ask me, as GoH would be forced way out of the medieval/high fantasy setting that has been so successful so far and has an almost infinite amount of untapped potential still.

So my opinion is that there's definitely room for a pirate world alongside GoH, and I don't see a problem with coordinating in the way that the major challenges don't finish at the same time (maybe also coordinate with SoNE?). There's usually a few months of lower activity in GoH after a big challenge anyway, and if there should be a pirate challenge run then in the meantime I don't see that it would be that bad if some of the top contributors to GoH were to switch over there for a couple of months before the next challenge. We who only build in GoH can keep busy free-building or with mini-challenges in the meantime (or be encouraged to try new building styles default_blink.gif).

There really should be a word for what we are doing btw, "brick semi-freeform RPG" is the closest description I can come up with. There must be a better term? default_blink.gif

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The idea of a joint GoH-pirate world is not very appealing if you ask me, as GoH would be forced way out of the medieval/high fantasy setting that has been so successful so far and has an almost infinite amount of untapped potential still.

Now this is what confuses me. Guns and cannons do exist in GoH already however they are not used mainly because of instability with the technology. And adding a pirate factor to GoH will force it out of medieval/high fantasy yet having oil fields does not?

Edit: I'm not complaining about the oil fields in GoH, I'm just wondering why since Kaliphlin seems to be more technologically advanced than the other guilds, there can't be another guild such as Varlyrio that is even more technologically advanced than Kaliphlin.

Edited by Mike S

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i don't think they should become one, i think it should be a separate thing on its own (otherwise i would have to change guild, and i don't want to leave mitgardia)

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So one of the reasons I don't like Guilds of Historica is that I cannot compete with the builders there. I don't have the skill, or the bricks, to make a halfway decent build when stacked against the massive castles that are created.

Since I am a landlubber, and this forum is more geared towards building fleets, my builds tend to be more on an equal setting IMO.

I understand that one point of all this is to grow and improve us as builders, but I just want to have fun and I don't want people to critique my build just because it does not have a refined border/base (which seems to pretty much be required now in the historic forum).

So I think two games would work well because it would allow the master land builders to grow empires in GoH, and let the less experienced hone skills here, while the master ship builders can own the seas here, and the less experienced ship builders improve their skills in GoH.

This forum just has a better appreciation for simpler MOCs that still tell a good story, so the game would have a different atmosphere.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I still like GoH, I just hope you get my point. Compare the land MOCs in this forum vs the land MOCs in GoH.

Edited by Comrade Commander

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I think I'd be more willing to play a Pirate variant of GOH to the actual GOH, simply due to the fact that I already run enough medieval fantasy in the Heroica forum. pir_laugh2.gif

That and I personally want to get back into building pirates. I think if we simplified GOH and made a more laid back version the pirate forum could get interest back into the pirate theme but still keep GOH the same. pirate_classic.gif

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