How Has Your MOCing Style Changed?

[3rdeye88]

This was a conversation that came up in I believe the general HF discussion but since it was kind of off topic I felt it was an interesting discussion that needed its own thread.

So..How has your MOCing style changed. How so since the very beginning of you starting to MOC or more specifically, since Hero Factory has been introduced and is now plentiful in most people's parts collection. How has it changed your methods of MOCing? Do you find you use certain kinds of parts more or less now? How would you define your MOCing style or process then as opposed to now?

Edited February 27, 2014 by 3rdeye88

[arc]

In short, no. I have no problem with the switch to the new HF style building system, but I prefer the larger variety with bionicle parts. It may be just me, but I feel limited with HF parts.

[Leewan]

Most of my recent MOCs use CCBS. Some are pure CCBS, and some others use many small Technic parts. So... Yeah, my style has changed. But I don't think this has anything to do with the CCBS. It changes because I always try to build something new, regardless the kind of parts I use.

I think most people are too focused on the idea of having Bionicle parts, or Hero Factory parts. But they are all Lego parts. And that's what I try to do. I build MOCs out of Lego parts, not specifically Bionicle or Hero Factory parts.

[Cirkit]

Most of my recent MOCs use CCBS. Some are pure CCBS, and some others use many small Technic parts.

That basically sums it up for me..

I wouldn't mind using more 'Bionicle-era' parts in my creations.. but with the CCBS I'm learning to use a small, limited number of parts in limited shapes to make something new, or several somethings new over and over again. Which is really cool.

[DraikNova]

Originally, I just used generic Inika builds and rather clashing yet more complex rainbow MOCs. Then, right after 2.0 was released, I tried to mess around with every color combination I could think of, and later I made some modified versions of Rocka XL. Then, starting with this weird giraffe-elephant hybrid monster, I learned how to build using only the arm bones, with the torso bones being used only for stability, in a way that resembles those rainbow MOCs to a surprising degree.

[Aanchir]

Well, other than now using mainly HF parts and building techniques, I don't know how much my MOCing style has actually changed. It's always been a bit all over the place. Sometimes I'd MOC large figures, sometimes smaller, more set-like ones. I've always had a fondness for the challenge of creating female MOCs, and I still do, though naturally I'm a lot better at it than I used to be.

I guess one of the biggest changes is that I don't spend a lot of time thinking about who I'm building when I sit down to MOC. I just sit down with my pieces and sometimes set a goal for myself (i.e. "today I want to build a simple 7" figure", "today I want to build a titan", "today I want to build some kind of wild creature", or "today I want to try using that technique I discovered the other day") and then get to work. If the MOC starts to look like a particular character I may make it a version of that character, or I may take steps to make it look unique. Then again, even some of the earliest MOCs I posted online (like this, this, or this) did not have any real identity, and were more about concept than anything else.

Ever since Hero Factory's new building system came out, I've been doing a lot of digital building and even integrating it into my physical building. This would not have been possible in the days of BIONICLE, since BIONICLE parts were never as widely represented on LEGO Digital Designer or any digital building tool as Hero Factory parts are now. Both physical and digital building have advantages, and using them in sync can be quite advantageous. I never would have figured out all the details of Christoffer Raundahl's elaborate MOC from LEGO World CPH 2013 if I hadn't been using physical and digital building in tandem. Physical building freed me from the constraints of the hinge tool when trying to figure out how some of the more fiddly connections worked, while digital building freed me from a limited quantity of parts as well as from the frustrations of hinges moving out of alignment when I didn't want them to. I never could have created Caitlyn Gauss XL if I hadn't first uncovered the details of that model's skeleton. I also frequently use digital building to experiment with color schemes, since it is much easier to color things with the paint bucket tool than to painstakingly swap out all the interior beams or exterior shells of a model with differently-colored ones (and it is also easy to keep Bricklink or Brickset open in one window to keep track of what parts exist in what colors).

I try to put a bit more effort into naming my MOCs than I used to, but I don't know if that could really be considered a part of a person's MOCing style. I still don't tend to come up with elaborate backstories for them. At best I'll come up with a few snippets of personality details.

I still put a lot of emphasis on color scheme organization, stylistic consistency, and other sorts of visual language in my building. I still tend to appreciate the challenge of keeping things reasonably simple and set-like as much as the challenge of making things super-custom and elaborate. I still think a lot about aspects of set design a lot in my MOCs — a typical Hero Factory hero, for me, will always be between 7 and 8 inches, just like a typical Glatorian would have been around eight to eight and a half inches. I still spend a lot of time thinking about how proportions can be kept realistic, as well, but of course I'm better at this than I used to be, and the variety inherent to the CCBS has helped with that considerably. After all, keeping proportions reasonably realistic and keeping proportions accurate to typical set design no longer have such a tendency to work at cross-purposes like they did in the Toa Mahri or Glatorian days.

And... that's all that I can think of. So there are probably a lot more ways that my building style has stayed the same than ways that it has changed. I've just continued to build my knowledge of human proportions and of the building techniques at my disposal. The building system I used changed, but then, I've always embraced new parts and building techniques if I felt that they offered more opportunities than what I had before. I can't remember the last time I used a Rahkshi chest/shoulder piece in a MOC, but Rahkshi and Toa Metru legs became a major part of my creative framework shortly after they were introduced. It's just a matter of adopting whatever parts and building styles I feel are most useful to me.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Aanchir

[Pate-keetongu]

When building, I don't think these things very much. I usually have an idea - though it may change a lot during the building - and then I just try to achieve it with bricks, or as with action figure stuff, odd-shaped plastic stuff with holes and axles. I take the parts that I have from well-sorted array of lockers, boxes and plastic bags and shape my ideas into physical models and sometimes of course bricklink the parts I need but don't own. Usually these are small TECHNIC bits in bright colors, as I have most of the Bionicle parts (Not HF parts though, but more of that later).

I started serious MOCing in 2007. This black Keetongu is a good example of my early builds which I uploaded on brickshelf and posted on Finnish (ex-)Bionicle community Bio-Klaani (still active, though I the only guy building any more). Oh boy how proud of Metru armour on Vahki leg connection I was! And there's even a metru skull there! I can still remember that day. Back the time, 2007-2009, I did mostly comissions on that mentioned community. Those MOCs are still visible on my Brickshelf, I haven't deleted anything. I browse those now and then, and there is clearly a development of skills visible. I still think that MOCs like this self-MOC were on some sort of turnpoint on my MOCing "career".

I don't make difference between SYSTEM, Bionicle and HF parts. As long as it's LEGO, I'm happy to use it. I usually label my action figures as "Bionicle" and not HF (Or slizer?).

If I browse my action figure creations, they can be divided into to categories - "Misc." and "Klaanon". The latter is a project on the mentioned Finnish Bionicle Community, a Finnish Bionicle-Based giga-novel-thing with several writers. I think the average age of writers of it today is something like 19 (so many of us are doing military service) and the thing has numerous characters to build. It is, of course, a lot more interesting than the official Bionicle canon: We ditched out all the silly stuff and added truckloads of own things. It's a project hard to explain as it is in Finnish and so big that it's impossible to translate. But for example my Flickr set of Klaanon MOCs can give you a glimpse of it. For example, Keetongu there doesn't have lot do with character with same name on canon, as this one is a steampunk engineer who sometimes plays an accordion. You know, that sort of stuff. Something like Bionicle mashed up with Bible starring Monty Python in combination of Cornetto trilogy... but this, of course, is quite a far-fetched in a topic concerning change in building techniques. But for sure it has affected my MOCing and given me loads of inspiration on this ground of LEGO hobby often squinted by AFOLs.

When it comes to purely Hero Factory themed MOCs, I have done a couple of set mods (I pretty much always mod sets if I happen to keep them built) and this one hero MOC; there were a bit of irony in that built to be honest. With Gambrodon that I built for Action Figure month here my goal was mainly just to build a cool enough beast, so there was quite a lot of Bionicle parts there, but still more HF than usually.

I use the "new" ball joint system parts when they... Well, do their job better than some other pieces. It's not that special really. If a leg looks better with HF shell and bone than pin-connected Bionicle armor and ball socket thing. Same here (eheh eheh ehehe badum-tish) is a good example with HF-based arms and Bionicle legs, both completed with some SYSTEM bits. There is of course pieces on each system I use a lot: Slizer foot is probably my favourite piece in action figure builds overall, the shortest bone in black is the ace of HF system, and something like 90% of my female builds have a rahski (well, who can write that "word" anyway?) back and shin on their legs. One would say that it's not very original to use the same design many times (and it of course is a good argument, I'm not denying that), but it looks usually quite suitable and I like to think every MOC as an standalone piece of art.

Hope that cleared something up. Probably it didn't and it's just a piece of odd arsty gibberish with lot of brackets, but hey, I'm having my final exam in English in two weeks and writing is never bad thing.

EDIT: And whoo, I did about as long post as Aanchir! Unbelievable!

Edited February 27, 2014 by pig

[Logan McOwen]

I've started using more Technic and custom builds in my Bionicle MOCs, and recently started making CCBS as well.

[WARHEAD]

Used to build Bionicle\Technic stuff before 2008, ditched lego for a couple of years and came back to it with the release of HF 2.0 in 2011. HF mostly attracted me because the figures weren't riddled with Technic holes and I dug the smooth aesthetic as it reminded me of other series I enjoy. Now I mostly build stuff that's a combination of Technic, System slopes and HF shells, with the odd Bioncle part thrown in. I've also started building System aircraft recently, discovering SNOT techniques, it's great fun.

[Anexcuse]

With my start with HF not long ago (2013), I did start with using the basic body to do basic things. Soon after I got a smaller technic set (forgot name of it), I got into making the bodies out of technic and giving it more of a technic vibe. I'm not a fan of using the standard HF building system for MOCs, so I try to do many different things with the small amount of technic pieces I have, they usually turn out as an ugly mess, but I do like the technique I use to build them and will keep practicing it.

I'm going to have a look at The Mixels, and see what I can do with them too. :P

[Bfahome]

I definitely use at least a couple of HF-introduced pieces in (nearly) every build. For my recent Roodaka the O(O)O piece made for some delightfully simple torso articulation. I probably would've used some more HF skeleton pieces for her too if a good chunk of them weren't otherwise occupied.

[VBBN]

Well creating a MOC using a majority of HF parts is very difficult to me, every crucial support piece in Kronos

My mocs before were uh..

Whatever you want to call that

Anyway all of the major support pieces were made with bionicle and technic parts. Hero factory made it easier to create shapes, because making an angle is a lot easier with balljoints than it is with technic beams and such, so I'll give it that. but if i try to build a structure out of purely HF parts, I find it a tedious task to properly support it and mix the styles. However I can't really comment much, Kronos is the only major HF based build I have done, all of my parts have went into him. Halcyon will feature more Bionicle influences, though i'd really like to have more time to experiment with HF parts as i do see a lot of potential. I think the thing it changed about my actual building techniques is that i build bigger now, I find it easier to create a continuous chain of attachment points with HF bones in comparison to some of the techniques I used with a primarily Bionicle system.

The only thing I dislike is the flat face of HF parts. While I enjoy it for some things, I really wish they had some varied textures. ad not the same shell piece year after year. Many would argue with me on that point, but let's face it, the limbs in Bionicle got old, regardless of how many recolors they came out in. A change would be most welcome. Just having add on pieces like the 3.0 spikes and the kneecap pieces and such isn't enough. What if I wanted a textured piece with an add on piece on top of it?

[Kalhiki]

Eh. Hero Factory just offers me new parts to mess with. I do mostly Bionicle-style builds as I've always done, and CCBS just gives me some more stuff to work with. I usually do a Bionicle-esque skeleton and put cladding in some areas for armor. So kind of a hybrid style now.

Though occasionally I like to mess exclusively with CCBS.

[3rdeye88]

In short, no. I have no problem with the switch to the new HF style building system, but I prefer the larger variety with bionicle parts. It may be just me, but I feel limited with HF parts.

The question wasn't if you had a problem with it. Its just that since the landscape of constraction MOCing has changes with Bionicle being gone and the CCBS system taking its place, people's MOCing styles have probably changed with it. I was asking MOCers to describe how their styles have changed. I wanted people to respond before I wrote my answer. But I imagine Pate, VBBN, Aanchir and Warhead's answers are more along the lines of what I was looking for. Though I'm in the process of reading the responses now.

Most of my recent MOCs use CCBS. Some are pure CCBS, and some others use many small Technic parts. So... Yeah, my style has changed. But I don't think this has anything to do with the CCBS. It changes because I always try to build something new, regardless the kind of parts I use.

I think most people are too focused on the idea of having Bionicle parts, or Hero Factory parts. But they are all Lego parts. And that's what I try to do. I build MOCs out of Lego parts, not specifically Bionicle or Hero Factory parts.

That's more along the lines of how I look at it. I was asking because I know the landscape of MOCing has changed or shifted. I'm curious to see how the characteristics of MOCer's styles have changed along with it.

[3rdeye88]

Well, other than now using mainly HF parts and building techniques, I don't know how much my MOCing style has actually changed. It's always been a bit all over the place. Sometimes I'd MOC large figures, sometimes smaller, more set-like ones. I've always had a fondness for the challenge of creating female MOCs, and I still do, though naturally I'm a lot better at it than I used to be.

I guess one of the biggest changes is that I don't spend a lot of time thinking about who I'm building when I sit down to MOC. I just sit down with my pieces and sometimes set a goal for myself (i.e. "today I want to build a simple 7" figure", "today I want to build a titan", "today I want to build some kind of wild creature", or "today I want to try using that technique I discovered the other day") and then get to work. If the MOC starts to look like a particular character I may make it a version of that character, or I may take steps to make it look unique. Then again, even some of the earliest MOCs I posted online (like this, this, or this) did not have any real identity, and were more about concept than anything else.

Ever since Hero Factory's new building system came out, I've been doing a lot of digital building and even integrating it into my physical building. This would not have been possible in the days of BIONICLE, since BIONICLE parts were never as widely represented on LEGO Digital Designer or any digital building tool as Hero Factory parts are now. Both physical and digital building have advantages, and using them in sync can be quite advantageous. I never would have figured out all the details of Christoffer Raundahl's elaborate MOC from LEGO World CPH 2013 if I hadn't been using physical and digital building in tandem. Physical building freed me from the constraints of the hinge tool when trying to figure out how some of the more fiddly connections worked, while digital building freed me from a limited quantity of parts as well as from the frustrations of hinges moving out of alignment when I didn't want them to. I never could have created Caitlyn Gauss XL if I hadn't first uncovered the details of that model's skeleton. I also frequently use digital building to experiment with color schemes, since it is much easier to color things with the paint bucket tool than to painstakingly swap out all the interior beams or exterior shells of a model with differently-colored ones (and it is also easy to keep Bricklink or Brickset open in one window to keep track of what parts exist in what colors).

I try to put a bit more effort into naming my MOCs than I used to, but I don't know if that could really be considered a part of a person's MOCing style. I still don't tend to come up with elaborate backstories for them. At best I'll come up with a few snippets of personality details.

I still put a lot of emphasis on color scheme organization, stylistic consistency, and other sorts of visual language in my building. I still tend to appreciate the challenge of keeping things reasonably simple and set-like as much as the challenge of making things super-custom and elaborate. I still think a lot about aspects of set design a lot in my MOCs — a typical Hero Factory hero, for me, will always be between 7 and 8 inches, just like a typical Glatorian would have been around eight to eight and a half inches. I still spend a lot of time thinking about how proportions can be kept realistic, as well, but of course I'm better at this than I used to be, and the variety inherent to the CCBS has helped with that considerably. After all, keeping proportions reasonably realistic and keeping proportions accurate to typical set design no longer have such a tendency to work at cross-purposes like they did in the Toa Mahri or Glatorian days.

And... that's all that I can think of. So there are probably a lot more ways that my building style has stayed the same than ways that it has changed. I've just continued to build my knowledge of human proportions and of the building techniques at my disposal. The building system I used changed, but then, I've always embraced new parts and building techniques if I felt that they offered more opportunities than what I had before. I can't remember the last time I used a Rahkshi chest/shoulder piece in a MOC, but Rahkshi and Toa Metru legs became a major part of my creative framework shortly after they were introduced. It's just a matter of adopting whatever parts and building styles I feel are most useful to me.

So the biggest change to your MOCing style is to build more set like and to use a hybrid of Physical building and digital building now that its a more versatile tool? That definitely makes sense. Seeing your MOCs I can tell you stick closer to the path of set like designs and techniques while still making them more intricate and interesting than any of the sets have been thus far.

Have you done much experimenting with mixing the newer parts with older ones? Looking through your flickr photostream, anything that isn't system based seems to be all CCBS based, as if you completely jump ship and left the old one completely behind. I don't know if you post all the results of your experiments, but have you tried integrating the various systems, not Just bionicle and HF, but those, system elements and maybe even more technic based parts as well?

[3rdeye88]

When building, I don't think these things very much. I usually have an idea - though it may change a lot during the building - and then I just try to achieve it with bricks, or as with action figure stuff, odd-shaped plastic stuff with holes and axles. I take the parts that I have from well-sorted array of lockers, boxes and plastic bags and shape my ideas into physical models and sometimes of course bricklink the parts I need but don't own. Usually these are small TECHNIC bits in bright colors, as I have most of the Bionicle parts (Not HF parts though, but more of that later).

I started serious MOCing in 2007. This black Keetongu is a good example of my early builds which I uploaded on brickshelf and posted on Finnish (ex-)Bionicle community Bio-Klaani (still active, though I the only guy building any more). Oh boy how proud of Metru armour on Vahki leg connection I was! And there's even a metru skull there! I can still remember that day. Back the time, 2007-2009, I did mostly comissions on that mentioned community. Those MOCs are still visible on my Brickshelf, I haven't deleted anything. I browse those now and then, and there is clearly a development of skills visible. I still think that MOCs like this self-MOC were on some sort of turnpoint on my MOCing "career".

I don't make difference between SYSTEM, Bionicle and HF parts. As long as it's LEGO, I'm happy to use it. I usually label my action figures as "Bionicle" and not HF (Or slizer?).

If I browse my action figure creations, they can be divided into to categories - "Misc." and "Klaanon". The latter is a project on the mentioned Finnish Bionicle Community, a Finnish Bionicle-Based giga-novel-thing with several writers. I think the average age of writers of it today is something like 19 (so many of us are doing military service) and the thing has numerous characters to build. It is, of course, a lot more interesting than the official Bionicle canon: We ditched out all the silly stuff and added truckloads of own things. It's a project hard to explain as it is in Finnish and so big that it's impossible to translate. But for example my Flickr set of Klaanon MOCs can give you a glimpse of it. For example, Keetongu there doesn't have lot do with character with same name on canon, as this one is a steampunk engineer who sometimes plays an accordion. You know, that sort of stuff. Something like Bionicle mashed up with Bible starring Monty Python in combination of Cornetto trilogy... but this, of course, is quite a far-fetched in a topic concerning change in building techniques. But for sure it has affected my MOCing and given me loads of inspiration on this ground of LEGO hobby often squinted by AFOLs.

When it comes to purely Hero Factory themed MOCs, I have done a couple of set mods (I pretty much always mod sets if I happen to keep them built) and this one hero MOC; there were a bit of irony in that built to be honest. With Gambrodon that I built for Action Figure month here my goal was mainly just to build a cool enough beast, so there was quite a lot of Bionicle parts there, but still more HF than usually.

I use the "new" ball joint system parts when they... Well, do their job better than some other pieces. It's not that special really. If a leg looks better with HF shell and bone than pin-connected Bionicle armor and ball socket thing. Same here (eheh eheh ehehe badum-tish) is a good example with HF-based arms and Bionicle legs, both completed with some SYSTEM bits. There is of course pieces on each system I use a lot: Slizer foot is probably my favourite piece in action figure builds overall, the shortest bone in black is the ace of HF system, and something like 90% of my female builds have a rahski (well, who can write that "word" anyway?) back and shin on their legs. One would say that it's not very original to use the same design many times (and it of course is a good argument, I'm not denying that), but it looks usually quite suitable and I like to think every MOC as an standalone piece of art.

Hope that cleared something up. Probably it didn't and it's just a piece of odd arsty gibberish with lot of brackets, but hey, I'm having my final exam in English in two weeks and writing is never bad thing.

EDIT: And whoo, I did about as long post as Aanchir! Unbelievable!

Well creating a MOC using a majority of HF parts is very difficult to me, every crucial support piece in Kronos

My mocs before were uh..

Whatever you want to call that

Anyway all of the major support pieces were made with bionicle and technic parts. Hero factory made it easier to create shapes, because making an angle is a lot easier with balljoints than it is with technic beams and such, so I'll give it that. but if i try to build a structure out of purely HF parts, I find it a tedious task to properly support it and mix the styles. However I can't really comment much, Kronos is the only major HF based build I have done, all of my parts have went into him. Halcyon will feature more Bionicle influences, though i'd really like to have more time to experiment with HF parts as i do see a lot of potential. I think the thing it changed about my actual building techniques is that i build bigger now, I find it easier to create a continuous chain of attachment points with HF bones in comparison to some of the techniques I used with a primarily Bionicle system.

The only thing I dislike is the flat face of HF parts. While I enjoy it for some things, I really wish they had some varied textures. ad not the same shell piece year after year. Many would argue with me on that point, but let's face it, the limbs in Bionicle got old, regardless of how many recolors they came out in. A change would be most welcome. Just having add on pieces like the 3.0 spikes and the kneecap pieces and such isn't enough. What if I wanted a textured piece with an add on piece on top of it?

Of the "ACE MOCers" on here I'm grabbing these two responses and multi-quoting them as they're the two that fit most in line with my style.

Firstly I didn't write my answer to my own question because i wanted to get a few responses before adding my own as to not steer an answer into any type or format.

I think since I'm pretty new here and probably relatively new to you guys overall I'll get into a little bit of history. I really started MOCing with Bionicle in 2004. That's when I started doubling up on sets to have a display figure and one to play around with. By 2006 I had run out of space to display any new figures so I completely liquidated my collection. This meant that from about 2004-06 I had doubles of nearly everything. My first MOCs were all bad guys. It took me about two years to get things figured out and by 2006 I had this. If any of you know my MOCs you'll see that Ryakk was very well on his way(he still pretty much has the same leg design) and I threw together a prototype of Mototaur just to round out the team before I headed off to Comic Con where I knew I was going to meet Greg Farshtey(and of course I showed him this). Sadly this is the earliest example of any of my MOCs I can show as I didn't have a computer or access to a digital camera till 2009. Ryakk is literally the first MOC I ever posted to the internet. Mototaur followed days after. Needless to say I came out of the gate swinging. My awkward "figure it out phase" had already happened and I was posting MOCs that I still have(Ryakk will be 10 years old this year isn't that amazing?!) and am still proud of enough to leave unchanged for 7 or more years while other MOC s of that era have gotten a serious update.

Looking back to those MOCs that came out of my early years of MOCing compared toe now. I'd say my style of MOCing has evolved more to something along the line of Pate's style. I don't necessarily make the distinction between Hero Factory, Bionicle, technic or System so much. The former of the three are especially undistinguished from. Its really only the latter that I pay more attention my inclusion of it into a MOC. What has resulted from Bionicle ending and the world of Constraction MOCing moving on in terms of my own MOCing is the walls coming down. Before there was a huge distinction between Bionicle/technic, and anything else. It also means I have broken away from the architypal character development of "Toa good guys," and "Makuta and Dark Hunter bad guys."

This has been abetted by joining an online community and seeing what other MOCers have done. I saw guys like Gringat on MOCpages(he's also on DA as Lol-Pretzel) include more system into their Constraction MOCs and it really got me to rethink the possibility of parts and their usefulness. I'd say my MOCing style has changed in the sense that I've really broadened my horizons as a MOCer and broke down a lot of mental barriers between one style of part or story/character type and others.

I think my MOCing style has always been marked by the ability to deviate from any other design I've come up with. Now with Hero Factory in the mix it has allowed me a new kind of way to be diverse in my MOCing. I can mix it all up like on Gweeb or Nui-Moko(and a ton of other of my middle aged to recent MOCs), pair the most unlikely parts together with HF bone pieces, or completely ommit Hero Factory or bionicle all together as a way to challenge myself.

The biggest change for me has been perspective. Bionicle ending, Hero Factory/the CCBS taking over and especially being part of the online MOCing community has really lent perspective to my MOCing and shown me that there are other ways to make it work outside of Bionicle.

The only thing I dislike is the flat face of HF parts. While I enjoy it for some things, I really wish they had some varied textures. ad not the same shell piece year after year. Many would argue with me on that point, but let's face it, the limbs in Bionicle got old, regardless of how many recolors they came out in. A change would be most welcome. Just having add on pieces like the 3.0 spikes and the kneecap pieces and such isn't enough. What if I wanted a textured piece with an add on piece on top of it?

*Brofist of the decade right there* I am so with you there man. That's probably my biggest gripe about Hero Factory. That and Can we get a little 360 armoring? I bet Storm Trooper armor does better to protect them than HF armor does. My Freddie MOCury that I made the other night that I haven't posted yet may look fabulous but if he got shot in the rear I don't think he'd fair well since its completely uncovered^{_{(looks like a storm trooper wearing ***less chaps)}}. Edited February 28, 2014 by 3rdeye88

[arc]

The question wasn't if you had a problem with it. Its just that since the landscape of constraction MOCing has changes with Bionicle being gone and the CCBS system taking its place, people's MOCing styles have probably changed with it.

I think I misinterpreted your question, but again, the way I build hasn't changed much at all. I own a few HF sets, but CCBS parts don't often find there way into my MOCs mostly because I don't see many uses for them I can't already do with bionicle. Which is what I'm used to.

[DraikNova]

-Kronos- *snip*

My mocs before were uh..

Whatever you want to call that.

*snip*

The only thing I dislike is the flat face of HF parts. While I enjoy it for some things, I really wish they had some varied textures. ad not the same shell piece year after year. Many would argue with me on that point, but let's face it, the limbs in Bionicle got old, regardless of how many recolors they came out in. A change would be most welcome. Just having add on pieces like the 3.0 spikes and the kneecap pieces and such isn't enough. What if I wanted a textured piece with an add on piece on top of it?

Is it strange that I like the look of the second MOC? Also, I've never noticed how huge Kronos is before. Anyway, I've got to agree with you on some of this. Keeping purely HF bone-based structures from folding in on themselves is very hard work, necessitating lots of support structures, and I wish we would get a piece that would help negate that, as even friction adders don't help much.

Variations on the basic shells would be nice, but hard to do, as they are already as flattened as they can be. Perhaps some sort of add-on that allows you to add on even more pieces on top of it would help. However, there's a problem with the basic add-ons: a lot of the time, the texture pieces feel disconnected from the MOC itself. Some work will be needed to figure out how to negate that and create pieces that have a more continuous, flowing look to them.

*Brofist of the decade right there* I am so with you there man. That's probably my biggest gripe about Hero Factory. That and Can we get a little 360 armoring? I bet Storm Trooper armor does better to protect them than HF armor does. My Freddie MOCury that I made the other night that I haven't posted yet may look fabulous but if he got shot in the rear I don't think he'd fair well since its completely uncovered^{_{(looks like a storm trooper wearing ***less chaps)}}.

Agreed, but to do this, you'd have to make shells that can be "folded", like one of those new container pieces locks into itself. This would, for the larger shells, such as the torso ones, reduce posing and make them harder to use for more complex MOCs. If used only for some of the smaller shells, this could work well though.

Edited February 28, 2014 by DraikNova

[VBBN]

*Brofist of the decade right there* I am so with you there man. That's probably my biggest gripe about Hero Factory. That and Can we get a little 360 armoring? I bet Storm Trooper armor does better to protect them than HF armor does. My Freddie MOCury that I made the other night that I haven't posted yet may look fabulous but if he got shot in the rear I don't think he'd fair well since its completely uncovered^{_{(looks like a storm trooper wearing ***less chaps)}}.

Agreed, but to do this, you'd have to make shells that can be "folded", like one of those new container pieces locks into itself. This would, for the larger shells, such as the torso ones, reduce posing and make them harder to use for more complex MOCs. If used only for some of the smaller shells, this could work well though.

The issue here isn't the armor itself, it's the fact that we have little to no way of putting armor on the back of a bone. Some bones, the longer ones with technic holes allow for this, but the short bones do not. In comparison, a bionicle double socket connector (the shorter single pin variant) gave you two axle ports on the back, or you could feed a 3L pin through to attach armor on both sides. With the new system, when you have a shell on this piece, the back is rendered void of any additional connection points.

Variations on the basic shells would be nice, but hard to do, as they are already as flattened as they can be. Perhaps some sort of add-on that allows you to add on even more pieces on top of it would help. However, there's a problem with the basic add-ons: a lot of the time, the texture pieces feel disconnected from the MOC itself. Some work will be needed to figure out how to negate that and create pieces that have a more continuous, flowing look to them.

Well they don't need to be any flatter, they just need to have a texture instead of being smooth. Like the scales in the IFB episode or an dinosaur skin type of texture.

Is it strange that I like the look of the second MOC? Also, I've never noticed how huge Kronos is before. Anyway, I've got to agree with you on some of this. Keeping purely HF bone-based structures from folding in on themselves is very hard work, necessitating lots of support structures, and I wish we would get a piece that would help negate that, as even friction adders don't help much.

It was just a test of concepts, so there's a bunch of odd parts usages in there, but I always did like the overall shape of the figure. (And yeah Kronos is a lot bigger with all of the bulking up I've done to him compared to his first form as Tyrant)

Now this is the biggest issue I have with the bone structure.

Let's say you had pieces attached to the balljoint and the socket of that piece. The piece that is clipped on to the center balljoint, is leading to a critical support. If you want to cover the front of that balljoint now, you have to drag armor down from another portion of the moc, since a shell can no longer clip on. I don't really know how to explain what I'm saying, I guess the issue is that in order to keep the frame from collapsing, you continue to decrease the amount of balljoints you have open, thereby making armor add-ons much more difficult. For Kronos, his entire chest is a separate construct, and I had to attach it via 2 points on each side. I did have an underlying Bionicle construct that helped secure it, but in an HF-only build this is a crippling issue, especially when trying to create a thinner MOC. I'm not saying there aren't ways around it, but it would be nice to see some very creative new bone pieces. (A bone with two balljoints on the center might be a good start)

[DraikNova]

I'm going to address these things in order:

First of all, about the 360^o armor, the suggestion I made would allow this without having to make all-new bone pieces. However, another way of solving this issue would be to make a bone part like this: 0-0-(, where the two central ball joints are flattened off where they touch, allowing armor or bones to be

0 connected from either vertical orientation, but not horizontally.

About the textures, what I meant is that the shells are as close to the bones as possible, and to add texture they'd need to be thicker, which might look bad. Generic scale printing, on the other hand, allows you to make much more detailed and realistic scales without LEGO needing to spend the money for a new mold. Feathers are complicated enough to warrant their own piece though, I think.

Your last point is a valid issue, but to get that fixed would require a pieces like these: 0-00-0, )-0-0-0, 0-0-0-0 or, and this is what would solve most of the problems I've had during building, )-{}-(, where {} is a sort of depression in the piece that can fit a ball joint.

Edited February 28, 2014 by DraikNova

[Aanchir]

So the biggest change to your MOCing style is to build more set like and to use a hybrid of Physical building and digital building now that its a more versatile tool? That definitely makes sense. Seeing your MOCs I can tell you stick closer to the path of set like designs and techniques while still making them more intricate and interesting than any of the sets have been thus far.

Have you done much experimenting with mixing the newer parts with older ones? Looking through your flickr photostream, anything that isn't system based seems to be all CCBS based, as if you completely jump ship and left the old one completely behind. I don't know if you post all the results of your experiments, but have you tried integrating the various systems, not Just bionicle and HF, but those, system elements and maybe even more technic based parts as well?

I have experimented some with it. The real thing stopping me much of the time is that I've always placed a big emphasis on stylistic consistency. So if a MOC uses predominantly smoother lines and textures, I try to stick with those rather than using more elaborate parts. And oftentimes that means I use BIONICLE parts with other BIONICLE parts and Hero Factory parts with other Hero Factory parts. So for instance, this semi-recent digital MOC used mostly high-texture Technic and BIONICLE parts except for the Y-joints, mask, hands, and weapons.

This emphasis on stylistic consistency and visual continuity was a big deal for me even as a BIONICLE fan. Even though I sometimes mixed textures haphazardly in my MOCs, I didn't like seeing textures used haphazardly in MOCs or sets — a bit of hypocrisy there, maybe. I wasn't a fan of the Kalmah armor on Hydraxon's legs, for instance, because the smooth organic curves and polka-dot texture were completely asynchrynous with the other silver parts of that set's design, which tended to be either very smooth or characterized by sharply-defined geometric textures.

It's not that I have an aversion to using the building systems together. But while there are BIONICLE and Hero Factory parts I'd use together in a heartbeat (since there's some considerable overlap between the aesthetic styles with certain pieces, like the Toa Mata foot), more often than not I feel like the parts work better alongside similarly-designed parts than alongside each other.

Of course, that's just personal taste. I've seen plenty of wonderfully elegant MOCs that use Hero Factory and BIONICLE parts in tandem. The situation just rarely comes up for me that I think a BIONICLE part would be ideal for a primarily HF-based MOC or vice-versa. It does come up sometimes, of course — I used the 2008 Takanuva's leg-guards for Caitlyn Gauss's blaster, and have used Carapar's leg armor on some digital concept models.

Another factor that's pretty important is that I've always enjoyed setting constraints for myself, and some of my proudest MOCs are the result of those constraints. Sometimes, the constraints are obvious: when building my 2008 Akamai Nuva and Wairuha Nuva MOCs, I only used the pieces from the 2008 Toa sets (I have instructions for both of those MOCs if anyone's interested). And this peacock was designed as a Brutaka alternate model.

Other times, the constraints are more self-imposed. For instance, when building a Toa Nidhiki or Lariska MOC, I usually like to challenge myself to use only pre-2006 parts (other than Nidhiki's mask), so the result looks like what a set released around the time of the characters' introduction could have been. When I built Certavus I tried to stick to a Glatorian-like level of detail and complexity, and use recurring motifs from the Glatorian sets, while creating a character who still looked unique compared to those which appeared in sets.

With MOCs like Caitlyn Gauss, I have another incentive for working primarily within the building system: to prove to myself and others that I can do it. The Hero Factory sets tend to be reasonably good for their size, but ever since the building system came out there have been frequent claims that the building system is no good for building larger-scale MOCs. And to a certain extent, it's easy to see where people get that conclusion. BIONICLE has been gone long enough for me to appreciate some of its flaws, but there's still no denying the elegance of certain titan sets like Roodaka, Brutaka, or the 2008 Takanuva (I know it sounds like I'm just naming sets with "aka" in the name but bear with me). They had flaws characteristic of their time, obviously — my Roodaka barely stands anymore since the ankles are supported by just a single friction joint that has weakened over the years, Brutaka's inner thighs are more empty than any Hero Factory shell, and the 2008 Takanuva's lower legs had gaping holes in them. Nevertheless, they remain some of my favorite BIONICLE set designs.

After the new building system, there were fewer designs this impressive. Fire Lord had some brilliantly creative building techniques but they resulted in a sub-par model. Black Phantom fixed most of Fire Lord's flaws, but as a result was far less original, and still had rather wonky proportions. Witch Doctor used the building system quite brilliantly, but the result was not as elegant as I wanted to see. Articulation was somewhat limited, the torso was incredibly bare-bones, and there was still a heavy reliance on Technic. Recently, Evo XL Machine has done a reasonable job stepping things up a bit (using Technic to supplement the building system, not to take its place), though it doesn't have that naturalistic, streamlined quality that I liked in those BIONICLE titans.

When I saw this model in photos from LEGO World Copenhagen in 2013 I felt somewhat vindicated. Here, I thought, was the proof that elegant "titan" sets were possible within the new building system (I was not surprised to find out that it was created by Christoffer Raundahl, one of the building system's inventors and previously the lead BIONICLE set designer). I used both LDD and my physical bricks to reverse-engineer the model — my results can be seen here. And then my next step was to prove that this kind of build wasn't limited to just one MOC with just one physique. I adapted it for the model that would become Caitlyn Gauss, narrowing the shoulders and lower legs, lengthening the lower body, and simplifying the arms until I arrived at a model that was comparatively feminine, not as burly and brutish as the original.

I've got another MOC in progress as we speak that uses a similar skeleton. And for this new one, I've come up with a new leg design that does not borrow so heavily from the original MOC that inspired both creations. This new leg design has a certain elegance to it, and I might actually want to see how it looks in place of Caitlyn Gauss's current leg construction. But that will still take some more time. For now, I'm happy to have created a Hero Factory MOC that can go toe-to-toe with the 2008 Takanuva. If I had settled for more BIONICLE-based solutions or legacy parts for any major parts of the design I would not have nearly as much to be proud of, because the MOC wouldn't be making any kind of profound statement.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Aanchir

[Zenerius]

When I got interested in Bionicle (Hordika-Inika) I felt very limited with the parts that I had. Thanks to the versatility of the new CCBS system, the large part variety (mostly bones, not as much shells), and the ability to create figures quicker, I could create better MOCs than before.

[The Kumquat Alchemist]

Though I could perhaps do more with technic-based skeletons and limbs, right now I'm almost purely using the CCBS skeleton and armor pieces.

Ever since 2007, I've been terrified of MOCing with BIONICLE socket pieces, due to their inclination to break left and right, and being able to use an almost entirely ball-and-socket-based system without fear of breakage for the first time in 4 years is quite refreshing, even if it limits my MOCs for using nothing but the post-2011 CCBS system for skeletons and armor.

Edited March 1, 2014 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[dviddy]

Hero Factory parts have revolutionized the way I build entirely.

I've been in the BIONICLE MOCing community since its inception, and largely helped guide and shape its movements via BZPower and other MOCing forums. I've been mixing BIONICLE and system successfully for a decade now, and still I can say that the Hero Factory building system has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me and my MOCing habits.

I have always wanted to build characters, first and foremost. Even my animal MOCs (like the newest Vayland Dragon, the Lion, or the Horizon Dragon) have some sort of character to them, something that gives them some sort of attitude or personality. I've never been interested in nameless grunts or mechs or vehicles things like that- it is just not my style. What captivated me about BIONICLE from the very beginning was the ability to have characters with expressive personalities. I fell in love with the way Kanohi masks conveyed personality, and it may be an odd quirk for a veteran MOCist, and I've taken lumps for it amongst my peers for years, but this is one of the reasons I still default to a Kanohi for humanoid MOCs. I actually make up little stories about many of the MOCs I build, and my recent MOCs based on my friends from BZPower all fit into a unified continuity I will probably never share online, but it explains their armour choices, design purposes, etc. Everything except HH's height, lol.

When the Hero Factory system debuted, I was ecstatic because unlike most people in this thread, apparently, I hate the texture of BIONICLE parts for armour (though I think for organic MOCs like animals it works really well when used correctly), as I prefer a visually clean and smooth aesthetic. The HF shells match the system aesthetic so well. I love that, and unlike everyone else here, shells with more textures make me wince. Too many BIONICLE parts were over-designed, and I find them hard to use when attempting to match them to my aesthetic. Which, was one of the biggest reasons I worked so heavily with system bits before.

What I've found with HF shells and parts is that, while some of the arms or legs on my MOCs have gotten "simpler", they allow me to unify the design principles more effectively, and focus on a lot of areas I was less concerned with, or paid less attention to before. Character-defining movement, armour motifs, etc, are far more accessible with HF parts. I do not think I would ever or could ever have built Hahli Husky or Janus before HF parts became available. The minifig-accessory ports are far more useful to me than if they contained only axle holes, as the smaller size allows for smaller detailing, and also a greater connectivity with more detail-giving system accessories.

Honestly, what I think HF has really allowed me to do is stop over-designing overly-complex limb designs in order to achieve the same shapes. It has actually cut down on my reliance on system parts, as well. As I said earlier, I think it allows me to focus more on aesthetic flow, and while I've been pretty obsessed with proper colour layering and blocking for, well, a decade now, it has allowed me to play with colour theories and how those affect visual design a lot more openly as well.

Really, I said this somewhere else recently, but I think HF parts finally allow me to build the action figure looking MOCs I've always wanted to build. Things that look like solid action figure toys you could pick up at the store. I think this is one of the reasons I don't dabble much in system or in vignettes or other things some of the other high-profile constraction builders have been doing lately, and another reason that where complex, small-part heavy designs that are en vogue in the community currently don't attract my building desire much (though I did build Sarge in a similar style, I suppose). I'm not really focused on complexity, realism, or fatihful adaptations to other media very often. I want to build toys of characters.

[3rdeye88]

Is it strange that I like the look of the second MOC? Also, I've never noticed how huge Kronos is before. Anyway, I've got to agree with you on some of this. Keeping purely HF bone-based structures from folding in on themselves is very hard work, necessitating lots of support structures, and I wish we would get a piece that would help negate that, as even friction adders don't help much.

Variations on the basic shells would be nice, but hard to do, as they are already as flattened as they can be. Perhaps some sort of add-on that allows you to add on even more pieces on top of it would help. However, there's a problem with the basic add-ons: a lot of the time, the texture pieces feel disconnected from the MOC itself. Some work will be needed to figure out how to negate that and create pieces that have a more continuous, flowing look to them.

Agreed, but to do this, you'd have to make shells that can be "folded", like one of those new container pieces locks into itself. This would, for the larger shells, such as the torso ones, reduce posing and make them harder to use for more complex MOCs. If used only for some of the smaller shells, this could work well though.

Not at all. I've already figure dout a way that could work. You develop a new set of arm where one part connects onto the bone part, probably by the conventional method, then there's little slots or tabs on the side and the other "back armor" piece slides and clicks into place or there's little tabs that bend and snap into place. Or it could be as simple as a pin hole pin connection. It would require two new Molds but then armor could be used all sorts of different ways. YOu could point the main part on the back of the leg and have the "back part" I'm not good with any kind of 3d modeling or design program but In my head I can think of a couple possible solutions for how that would work, and as long as the parts were made to fit with the CCBS system there's no reason they'd have to hinder movement. It would be no more a hindrence than the HF armor that already goes on the CCBS bones.VBBN and I agree, the bigges issue with HF is the lack of variety in the base armor system. They found one design and sat on it since 2.0. Addons are cool but like he said, what if I want an addon with a textured armor part underneath it? I definitely think Lego can build off this system a lot more than they have in terms of armor elements.