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Phoxtane

Lego A/S now looking for a sustainable replacement for ABS

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So this was posted on my local LUG's Facebook page today. It'll be quite the shift for such a large consumer of plastic!

http://www.plasticsnews.com/article/20140218/NEWS/140219915/lego-looking-for-a-sustainable-replacement-for-abs

'Lego A/S is setting a target to use a sustainable resin in its signature bricks by 2030, replacing ABS.

The search for that new resin will not be easy, though, said Allan Rasmussen, senior project manager for Lego. Not only must the selected material be able to meet the same characteristics as the locking building blocks, they must also blend seamlessly with bricks already in children’s hands.

“I need to find a material that is just as good as this one,” Rasmussen said. “I need to find a material that will be just as good in 50 years, because these are passed down from generation to generation.”

Speaking at Innovation Takes Root 2014 in Orlando on Feb. 18, Rasmussen said the sustainability quest is in its early stages, but the Danish company already has tested some bricks using an impact modified polylactic acid are “very, very close.” A problem with a post-molding “creep,” however, means that a few weeks after they are molded the bricks do not click and stick together as well as they should.'

Any thoughts, comments, or reactions?

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I think this is a practical and forward-thinking move for Lego, and I'm glad to see they're taking an appropriate amount of care to find the right material for the job. However, I'm apprehensive about AFOL reaction to this. Lego fans already have a proclivity to decry any change as bad, even if no change has actually taken place, so I dread the inevitable railing against the new material as inferior (and I'm aware that a new material might turn out to be inferior in one way or another, but the outcry will happen whether or not the material is measurably worse).

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It will be a big change for LEGO when they replace ABS. Good to see they are carefull about the choice. I, as an AFOL, will not stand against the change as long as it is getting at least as good as it is today. If the choice is even better for environment and health, no problem for me. I just hope they will find a white that will not turn (that much) yellow through the years :wink:

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Very interesting. There are different ways to look at what makes a product "sustainable" and environmentally friendly. When it comes to environmentally friendly plastics, the first thing that comes to mind for many people are plastics that are biodegradable. PLA, the type of plastic LEGO seems to be testing now, will degrade into harmless lactic acid over time. That's great for things like food packaging and cups that might end up in a landfill, but not good if you are making a product you want to last for 50 years or more.

To make PLA more durable, LEGO is testing "impact modified" PLA, which has other additives that make the plastic more durable. These additives are not biodegradable. One of the features of impact modified PLA appears to be that it does shrink slightly after it comes from the mold but after that is fairly stable. This may be what causes the loss in clutching power the article mentions. The solution would maybe be to account for the shrinkage by molding the bricks slightly larger than they are now to allow them to shrink to the proper size. This would mean changing the molds, which would be very expensive, and might not allow for the precise consistency LEGO elements are famous for.

The other approach to environmentally friendly plastic is on the production side. The idea is to reduce the amount of petroleum-based ingredients in the plastic, replacing them with renewable ingredients like cellulose and starch. These kinds of plastics are often called bioplastics because they are made primarily from biological materials that can be grown renewably.

The original LEGO plastic, cellulose acetate, is a bioplastic. Another example of LEGO trying to return to its roots?

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I have a concern

if lego wants to meet a "by 2030" goal, shouldn't they start addressing quality problems and other issues NOW so there'll be a 2030 for them? the way quality is going downhill in certain cases and prices going up, that could cause another disaster. there's bound to be people out there already shifting brand loyality and not addressing various problems is bound to shift things in other companies favor faster as issues get worse

I'm already looking into clone brands since i don't like the way lego prices are going and there's clone brand themes that look way cooler and are from themes with almost the exact same piece quality. MB has a rock em sock em robot type action figure PLUS a really epic looking spongebob theme coming(I WANT THAT KRUSTY KRAB!) and ionix has a pokemon theme coming.

Sorry lego, but the price vs piece vs size of sets is getting to be unfair.

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if lego wants to meet a "by 2030" goal, shouldn't they start addressing quality problems and other issues NOW so there'll be a 2030 for them? the way quality is going downhill in certain cases and prices going up, that could cause another disaster.

Which quality problems are you thinking about, SweetiePie?

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if lego wants to meet a "by 2030" goal, shouldn't they start addressing quality problems and other issues NOW so there'll be a 2030 for them?

Changing to an alternate plastic might well reduce costs and improve colour consistency, as well as being generally better from an environmental standpoint. It isn't necessarily an either/or situation.

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top thing on my list is that I'm seeing an increasing number of cracked brick stories online, especially to the tune of with bricks and cheese slopes plus loose and/or breaking minifigure parts

plus there is definatly reports of some color problems that some people really don't appreciate with set prices the way they are. and i think the fact that it seems like instructions are just randomly shoved in boxes of some smaller sets are another big annoyance. i get that unless they are film wrapped on cardboard, there WILL be folds and creases but the street rebel i got a couple days ago is an example of a big issue. it's like whoever put it in the box curved it like a magizine and shoved it in even though there is room for it to be FLAT in the box.

and then there's the quality of product factor. we are paying more and more for sets flooded with itty bitty parts. i get that details are great in a set, but there is a limit and what am i supposed to do with a bunch of cheese or stud parts when/if i decided to raid the sets for parts? except for maybe 4 of each with vehicles I make on the rare occasion , i can't think of when i use them

Edited by SweetiePie88

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it is of course very wise of LEGO to consider alternatives! better quality and better resources are an important consideration for a renown company like TLG.

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I'm glad they're looking for other options, but I hope they have the guts to give up on an inferior material if it doesn't work out.

I also hope this new stuff makes them a lot cheaper.

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2030 is long time, but If they made huge mistake with material, customers instantly knock out TLC from market.But If MB will still manage new and interesting licensed sets, Lego will knock out myself.

In europe anyway, If they still be pricey as today compare to USA.TLC formally doesnt have competitor in some europe countries and they use advantage from that.Maybe I reduce in future my hobbies only to high quality model cars in 1:18, they are mostly cheaper than some non exclusive lego :tongue: .

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top thing on my list is that I'm seeing an increasing number of cracked brick stories online, especially to the tune of with bricks and cheese slopes plus loose and/or breaking minifigure parts

Thanks for the info, SweetiePie. I wasn't aware of this problem. I've just read another thread in the Ambassador forum about the quality. Fortunately, I have not experienced this yet. - The only thing I have heard about is the CMF which are not always in the best quality. - These are problems that must be handled, in that I agree with you.

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Well, if TILG switches to a new plastic... don't expect the end result to be colors that are identical to the older plastics (ABS and Polycarbonate).

Here's an upgrade to my LEGO Collectors Guide that shows just the trans-clear variations over the decades from the 1960s until the present. Showing both Cellulose Acetate and Polycarbonate.... basically (right to left)... 1950s/early 1960s, late 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s/2000s...

12514252225_5a9f19a8e5_b_d.jpg

A comparison of the CA red and yellow to the early ABS (with Cadmium) red and yellow, to the modern red and yellow... will show better what I mean....

Edited by LEGO Historian

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While this is exciting to me and what I see as a bold and forward-thinking move on LEGO's part, I'm actually dreading listening to the majority of the fandom's reaction.

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Environmental and sustainability issues aside, this is a good business move for Lego. Oil is just going to keep going up in the future, to the point where it's going to be cost prohibitive for them to use petroleum based plastics. Researching new types of plastics now means that there will still be a Lego company in the future.

While I'm sure there will be complaining about it, new plastic is inevitable. Looking on the bright side, it could be that the new plastic is better than ABS. You never know.

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Well, if TILG switches to a new plastic... don't expect the end result to be colors that are identical to the older plastics (ABS and Polycarbonate).

While straight PLA plastic is clear, "impact modified" PLA is usually a milky white because of the the other additives, so it's not a candidate to replace the polycarbonate clear pieces, just ABS. As you say, there will almost certainly be a change in color. Even if they could match the colors exactly, different plastics have other characteristics that affect our perception of the color - they hold different amounts of gloss, have a different "depth" to the color, etc.

Do you suppose they will follow past practice and start up production of the new pieces before they have exhausted their present supply? If so, we'll probably see pieces made from the new plastic gradually mixed into sets over a few years until all the pieces are of the new material.

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... This would mean changing the molds, which would be very expensive ...

I was going to point this out but decided to read all the posts first. Redoing the molds because of different plastic shrinkage is most likely the biggest hurdle .. and I agree, it won't come cheap.

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I was going to point this out but decided to read all the posts first. Redoing the molds because of different plastic shrinkage is most likely the biggest hurdle .. and I agree, it won't come cheap.

It shouldn't really be an issue if they phase them in as the current ones break. Few, if any of the existing molds will still be used 16 years from now...

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I hope the reason for new plastic is to be independant from petroleum based plastic and not to be Green i.e. bio-or-whatever degradeable. Cannot say if it is good or bad before we get some parts to check on our own.

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As long as it keeps the same quality it has currently, and doesn't make me think any different about LEGO, I'm happy. It's for the best, too; this is definitely going to have a positive effect on the environment by ceasing to use this type of plastic.

Edited by Puffle Pal26

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If they can make the change without sacrificing quality, then that is great. Getting away from any petroleum based formula would be a big plus. Perhaps this could help keep the price down in the future.

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If they can make the change without sacrificing quality, then that is great. Getting away from any petroleum based formula would be a big plus. Perhaps this could help keep the price down in the future.

That's what I was thinking.... The price being a main or only reason. The price of anything is mainly the cost of raw material/resources and the cost of shipping.

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