Replacing 9v Internal motor with a RC motor

[Lazarus]

Hello All.

There is some talk at present about my right up I did for replacing the 9v internals with the PF internals.

This fix works perfectly fine, but some people have some of the older RC motors around and by no fault but my own. I ordered one by mistake so I thought I would try the same fix out with the RC motor.

For this 9v motor i did not need the PF cable and it is not a dual motor train, so the cons of the RC motor does not matter for me in this case. But to all who does not have any RC motors around and are looking at buying the RC or PF motor to fix an old 9v I would recommend always the PF motor over the RC.

1. The motors have been removed out of their housing, note the differences in the motors very slight but due to these we need to mod.

2. Now we want to remove some access plastic that will stop the motor sitting flush on the bottom of the 9v housing and also make it fit snug without modding the housing.

3. After being cut. note the plastic is very hard and will be a lot of work with a knife and maybe cost a finger. I recommend a cutting bit on a dremel.

4. Now with the motor installed, solder the two wires to the power pickups and do a test fit and run with a stranded 9v motor to make sure the direction is the same. If not just swap the wires around on the power pickups.

Test Videos

Edited January 31, 2014 by Lazarus

[Arrow]

Question: upper wire goes down and so the other opposite?

[Lazarus]

yes, i need the + to go towards me on the photo and the - to go on the far end so they are crossed.

This only effects the direction of the motor.

Pic updated

Edited January 31, 2014 by Lazarus

[Commander Wolf]

This is great; is there any significant difference in performance after swapping the motor? Could you run a powered something with both a stock 9V motor and a modded one without any ill effects?

[toxicbananna]

that great!! finally understand it what are the difference! thanks for making this tutorial for newbies like me!

[Lazarus]

Suspect running a stock 9v and modded PF 9v would course issues at some point with the stock 9v, due to the PF is faster and has more torque.

Performance is hard to tell speed wise but pulling power is better. I dont know what the % difference is between the 9v and PF but i dont think it is huge.

Motors go from good to bad 1.PF 2. 9v 3. RC, this is based on RPM and torque, Would not know about life but I would suspect 9v is the most reliable as with more old electronics it was just made better back then.

From testing I have no ill effects from the mods, but I have my Lego show coming up in October and that will be the trial 3 days of constant running will test these motors out.

[ust60]

Hello community ,

is how much the PF motor ( 88,002 ) is faster and greater than

the old 9-volt motor ( 10153 )

Can you see in the video here:

<span lang="en">http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=63596

In the first video , the yellow locomotive runs with two old 9 volt motors , the red with two PF 88002 , both engines get their power through the rails , and although the red locomotive pulls wagons it is faster than the yellow locomotive.

The second video explains the watch by itself. The PF motor on metal wheels is without weight, slower than the 9 volt motor, it has the worse traction (metal on metal ) he has to carry weights it is faster than the 9 volt motor . Enjoy the video .

Hello Lazarus your videos are very good. But only now with the photos I have really understood how the engine needs to be edited .

On the subject of durability and quality of the engines , many of my friends say that the quality has diminished even with the 9 volt motors , only the very old motors of the series were really good engines.

Edited January 31, 2014 by ust60

[ust60]

(Why missing the last sentence )

<p><span id="result_box" lang="en" tabindex="-1">

Edited January 31, 2014 by ust60

[Lazarus]

Ohh ya sorry guys in the pics i laybeld the motor PF when it should be RC, sorry had PF on my mind. But the RC and PF look the same and the same mod needs to be done on both.

But yes PF internals all the way. only RC if thats what you have to work with.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Lazarus

[LEGO Guy Bri]

Hello community ,

is how much the PF motor ( 88,002 ) is faster and greater than

the old 9-volt motor ( 10153 )

Here is a fact sheet comparison of all LEGO motors. Short answer according to chart, the PF motor has slightly less torque, but faster RPM through it's applied voltage with no load (just the motor unit by itself). I do believe that under load the PF will provide better torque over distance because it has it's power onboard, as opposed to 9V better current near the points attached to the track that dips the further the motor is from those points

[ust60]

Hello Duke,

actually I thought I knew the pages of "Philo" (that was my mistake) you're right, according to Philo, the 9 volt motor with 9 Volt really a torque of 0.90 N.cm and the PF motor 88002

has 9 volt "only" a torque of 0.85 N.cm

Unfortunately, I am not a physicist and an engineer in mechanical engineering. Perhaps explained by the differences of the other numeric values ​​such as " Mechanical power in watts ", " Electric power in watts " or from the Efficiency indicating in my language " Wirkungsgrad in % " how much of the absorbed energy is really converted to power my statement: " ." is how much the PF motor ( 88002 ) is faster and greater than "

When I look at the experimental setup of Philo I think that your statement

" I do believe that under load the PF will provide better torque over distance because it has it's power on board, as opposed to 9V battery current near the points attached to the track that dips the further the motor is from those points " is not correct

Did you watch the two videos?

Here there are two locomotives on 9 volt rails , the yellow locomotive with two 9 volt motors receives power through the rails from the transformer , just the red loco with two engines 88002 she gets the power from the transformer on the rails !

The same conditions for both locomotives , only the red locomotive is faster it closes the gap to the yellow locomotive , even though the red locomotive pulls four small cars.

What do you mean what to say / write? The yellow locomotive is indeed slow but has the more powerful 9 volt motors ?

Best regards Udo

PS: In the second video , the not so good traction Homemade corrupted ( rolling tires ) metal on metal the result.

I do not know how I can display the differences in the performance otherwise clearly without laboratory equipment by Philo.

[Arrow]

I've got a problem: i have replaced the motor. In one direction it is working fine, not very fast but it is working... the other direction, I hear some strange noise from the motor, and I don't know why...

[Lazarus]

Does it sound like gears slipping, if it does the motor might not be flush on the bottom or maybe a wire is getting pushed onto the gears. They are the only sounds I ever got from the ones I have done.

Note dont replace the old 9v gears (the ones on the metal pole) with the new ones just the motor swap over. The gears are not identical they are to the eye but they slip.

[Arrow]

Does it sound like gears slipping, if it does the motor might not be flush on the bottom or maybe a wire is getting pushed onto the gears. They are the only sounds I ever got from the ones I have done.

Note dont replace the old 9v gears (the ones on the metal pole) with the new ones just the motor swap over. The gears are not identical they are to the eye but they slip.

yep, slipping. The motor is in its position, no movements on it. And all the wires are on it, on the top and not between the wheels...i don't know man. I used the originals 9v gears.

[Lazarus]

Ok take the bottom off hold the case and motor down with your thumb and with the other hand try and spin the wheels and tell me witch side is slipping if its the modded side or unmodded.

The motor needs to be fully flush on the case and the modded end of the motor needs to sit well into the stock black U support. Could you take a pic of the cutting you have done.

There is a nack to it and 1mm off will course this issue I had it will one or two. Also is the bottome case cover coming off a little as this mm or two of gap will make the gears slip to I had to glue some bases back on due to it coming away after some running.

[Arrow]

Ok thanks i watch it right now...

[Arrow]

I tried to place the motor out of the black box and i put the wires on the rails...the motor on both direction is smooth, so the problem is between motor and rails...

[Lazarus]

Can you show me some pics of your work so i can see what might be wrong. with motor in and out of the black case and pic of the area you cut back.

I did my RC convershion above in about 30mins and worked first time with no issues. But the first convershion I did was a bit more of a fiddle, its all about how it sits in the case.

Did you get gear slipage when you held the motor in place, ohh forgot to say when doing this hold one set of wheels also and then try any turn the other if there is no slipping it should be good, if there is then its not flush.

I have some videos of the convershion on my You tube channel have a watch.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Lazarus

[Arrow]

Ok, thanks. Tomorrow i will upload some photos.