Technic in Design Limbo?

[Gee]

Hey Nic, if you build it, they will come!

I wonder if TLG would produce one Technic set a year specifically for AFOLs. AFOLs spend a lot of cash on LEGO and show unswerving dedication to the brand, normally for a lot longer than the kid stage lasts, so one set as a way of acknowledging this ongoing support wouldn't be too much to ask.

[nicjasno]

What i have in mind (and i have built it in my mind already) will blow everybody away. Kids will want it just as much.

It's going to be the modern day 8880.

Looks like i'll be busy in 2014.

Edited January 9, 2014 by nicjasno

[Gee]

Awesome!

[Johnny P]

Looking forward to this superawesomeamazing rc supercar . But right now al i hear is a lot of blabla .

[rener]

Looking at this design http://www.techlug.fr/Forum/topic8612.html I think possibilities for using driving rings in a creative way are not exhausted at all. One just wonders why the idea of one function per driving ring has never been used in an official model, especially since it enhances playability so much! Only example I can think of is 8480 B-model, the submarine, in which it works great.

By the way, the model I refer to is so cool (IMO) that I feel a bit awkward using it in a topic like this. It might deserve a topic of its own on EB, but that I leave to the designer (of maybe Anio)

[majorna]

I came out of my Lego dark ages when my daughter got big enough to start building, so my thoughts are really aimed at what might interest kids and be pedagogic at the same time. Lego was a huge part of my childhood and I learned a lot playing with these little plastic bricks.

When I got my first universal sets they immediately got incorporated with the existing collection of bricks, which now had greater potential to create mechanized constructions. Flash forward thirty years and I bought the tiny red container truck at a discount in a grocery store to introduce these techniques to my daughter. I thought we could create elaborate drawbridges or carousels with the parts. The truck's mechanism was very charming, and my daughter enjoyed building and rebuilding it, but incorporating the parts was not as easy as I remember, in part due to the studless technique. Still, we complemented the tiny truck with the tracked crane and the little bulldozer in the same scale, to have a little construction team nearly in minifigure scale, off on the side of her lego towns.

The kit that has actually taught her the most about mechanics, though, is the Klutz "Crazy Action Contraptions" which is easily the best Technic kit under $50. This book is nearly a universal building kit, particularly when paired with an existing studded collection. I'd love to see more kits like this, maybe in collaboration with Yoshihito Isogawa? Why not some simple mechanical models, like a "South Pointing Chariot" or some BEAM robotics kits that can introduce robotic principles at a pricepoint well below Mindstorms? These sorts of kits would have really appealed to me as a kid, and would appeal to my daughter, much more than an endless array of tough-looking vehicles.

[nicjasno]

Looking forward to this superawesomeamazing rc supercar . But right now al i hear is a lot of blabla .

I hear you

[JM1971]

Looking forward to this superawesomeamazing rc supercar . But right now al i hear is a lot of blabla .

I hear you

Hope this happens, where are the rumours?

Edited January 9, 2014 by JM1971

[nicjasno]

I need to finish 3 engines this week, then i'll make a prototype wheel hub. Will open a thread for this.

[JGW3000]

Klutz "Crazy Action Contraptions" which is easily the best Technic kit under $50.

My daughter's birthday is coming up, she's gonna love this. I've seen it before, but it slipped my mind, thanks for the reminder!

[Chilly]

My younger kids (boy and girl) eyes light up when they see gears, axles and motors - a (two) Universal Set(s) would be the best present ever for them! They try to build vehicles with functions using what they can from their City sets, but that is limited - imagine what they would do with a carefully chosen 200-500 part Technic Universal Set. Too many kids go for the easy way out - video games, TV, simple to follow BI's; IMHO guided free build is best and much more rewarding. Come to think of it, I should round up a bunch of my spare parts and make my own Universal Set for them (next project )

My daughter's birthday is coming up, she's gonna love this. I've seen it before, but it slipped my mind, thanks for the reminder!

I think kids want more than just vehicles with wheels. They want crazy contraptions, things that throw bricks around, fling elastic bands, windmills, wheelbarrows, plotters, spirographs, dinosaurs, walking dogs, program card machines, things that go clang wizz, GBCs. Everything including vehicles, but not ONLY vehicles.

[allanp]

Hmmm, I'm not sure most kids would go for a wheel barrow or a windmill over a big red truck for example.

[Conchas]

Depends on the red truck...

[rm8]

ahahah so true man!

i completely agree with you!

i just need more pieces to make better cars....i would really like to have shorter steering links so i could use double wishbones for small models :p

Narrow independent suspension with possibility to "drive" and steer is also my best wish. Also want new new remote control with instant proportional steering and speed control (hate train RC:[)

+ new PF Buggy motors:)

Edited January 10, 2014 by rm8

[piterx]

What i have in mind (and i have built it in my mind already) will blow everybody away. Kids will want it just as much.

It's going to be the modern day 8880.

Looks like i'll be busy in 2014.

...and looking at the way you build things im sure it will be so XD

can't wait to see what you have in mind!

Narrow independent suspension with possibility to "drive" and steer is also my best wish. Also want new new remote control with instant proportional steering and speed control (hate train RC:[)

i bought that proportional control thinking it was awesome but it was crap XD

[aol000xw]

I'd like a line of Technic vehicles/attachments/accesories all of them made in the same scale. That way they could design truck cabins, different kinds of trailers, freight containers, machinery etc. Giving children a framework of related sets with great playability -Playmobil scale would be a great decission- could give them a reason to want those sets not only for parts or building but for interacting. After all I reckon that for children building is as much part of the fun as actually playing with whatever they build.

Unimog does not combine very well with welll anything else, however having a truck on the right scale to carry 42006, and a dump truck suited to its scale too... etc. Just look at whatever Playmobil has donde and make it Technic,

A bit like Lego City in Technic, just bigger scale...

Right now anything Lego does in Technic looks unrelated and disconected, so the only reason to want a set is for parts or for the individual value of that set, there isn't a bigger picture, a collection/line sense. Technic is the only Lego that suffers that lack of interest when thinking on the sets as a whole.

[Hrafn]

Narrow independent suspension with possibility to "drive" and steer is also my best wish. Also want new new remote control with instant proportional steering and speed control (hate train RC:[)

+ new PF Buggy motors:)

+1 for parts for narrow driven suspensions. The hangup here, besides there not being steering links shorter than 5L, is the length of the CV and u-joints. I'd like to see a 3L or 4L CV part with two 'male' ends. Then you could use one of those and two of per axle, have independent suspension, steering, AND fit in a differential in a narrow vehicle.

Right now if you want to do an AWD car with diffs, the width of the components pushes you to 1:10 or larger.

[andythenorth]

+1 to a narrower track for powered steering axles with suspension.

[lazylegoist]

Some here argue that Technic models needn't be absolutely realistic, since they're aimed at kids, whose priority is having fun playing with the models. And in certain aspects, like transmissions or the LA versus pneumatics debate, that might be true. But I think there is at least one aspect where more realism would equal more fun, and that is the steering.

I recently acquired the 9392 quad bike, and the steering on that one is just horrible. I know that I wouldn't have liked it as a kid either, simply because it can't even do a full u-turn within the reach of my arms (I mean the reach of my arms today, as an adult). And the steering on other Technic models, even up to flagship models like the Unimog, is almost equally bad.

I think having Ackermann steering, pivot points nearer or inside the wheels, and a more generous steering lock would not only increase realism, but would also make the models much more fun to play with, regardless of whether they're driven by remotely controlled motors or by the mighty hand of god.

It has been shown time and again that all this is possible even with the current Lego parts, and it would be even easier with some new parts that Lego could easily develop. I wish they would do that to improve this important aspect − after all, the majority of Technic sets are wheeled vehicles which would benefit from better steering.

[shadowhearth]

I dont know about the actual mechanics, but I know that colour palette is the HUGE LIMBO! Are yellow bricks cheaper to make or something? I think I can live with next front loader as an Flag ship, but hey could at least consider other colour patterns.

[Paul Boratko]

Technic design ins't in limbo.. There is only a very very minute group of people on this planet that could design models as practically and precisely as the ones that we have seen over the past few years from Lego...

The Technic design team has the resources and skill to blow away just about any average and skilled fan out there.. You don't think they would like to(and can) do everything that you want to..?

I would love to see the prototype designs that the Technic team has done over the years that never get to see the public's eye..

I am more amazed by the simplistic use and practical way of using parts than by the sheer amount of parts used in typical AFOL Lego Moc's... I wish that I could build like the Technic designers do..

People always seem to take the models that the Technic team does for granted without looking into how they are actually designed...

Edited January 14, 2014 by Paul Boratko

[Cumulonimbus]

Although I’m happy with the line-up of technic models over the recent years, I find this discussion very interesting. I got the feeling that it could lead to even better sets, even for the kids for whom they are designed. I was wondering if the arguments, desires and suggestions discussed here are actually getting to Lego. Are the ambassadors who are active on this and other fora conveying this message or should we be more proactive and present a list of wishes and ideas (maybe prioritized via a vote?) to Lego or is naive to think that it could contribute?

Anyway, some of my wishes are:

Sets

• More 8258 scale European style trucks with a trailer, tipping bed or other interesting cargo
  
• Modern version of the version of the 858 motor set
  
• Crawler crane on 42006 scale
  
• Return of universal sets, preferably with non-vehicle themes (windmills, domestic appliances, …)
  

Parts

• Tires and rims with more realistic proportions and thread (not a fan of balloon tires)
  
• Studless version of the helicopter swash-plate
  
• Cylinder-head unit to fit on the current cylinder block unit to show the valve action of an engine
  

General trends

• More realistic representation of mechanisms such as ackerman steering with existing
  
• A bit more variation in choosing (existing) colours for new sets (not all construction equipment is yellow)
  

[Kumbbl]

@Paul: absolute d'accord - but the skills and the capability of the technic design team of TLG to design outstanding models was not the question here, IMHO...

the question is: should TLG be more creative and brave in their model-releases (you see the difference? productive releases and not internal prototypes or ideas) so not always the same wheeled vehicles with more or less the same mechanisms... long time ago TLG was innovative and brave with that respect... Universal sets, 8479, 8485, 8094, idea books 8888 and so on...

Guys, you are right, TLG do market research and surveys and the main target group are children, no question - therefore it seems riskless to pump all this construction stuff and race cars in the market, obviously children like them - BUT you can see this also from the other side: IMHO a toy manufacturer like Lego could not only satisfy the extisting wishes of the childs but also it could try to influence in which stuff the childs could be interested - take a look at steve jobs and apple (well, this comparison is flawed, of course, but it can show what i mean): iPod, iPhone, iPad were all gadgets the market itself hasn't know they could be interested in - but Jobs had the vision that people could be interested in or even the MUST be interested in - even if they don't know it!

I think most of us AFOLs have been kids ;-) and at least i can say: never underestimate kids and their natural candidness for many many things: kids have much more interests than just constuction equipment, helis and race cars - but maybe you must drum up their interest for other stuff - depends on the sexyness of the stuff - but i'm 100% sure TLG could deliver many many really sexy models having no wheels ;-)

The same for more elaborated supercar mechanisms... and here i agree fully with lazylegoist: steering of lego models need indeed a strong improvement for good playablitly - Unimog 8110 is crap and some others too... by developing better suited parts for the undercarriage of cars TLG could kill two birds with one stone: enhancing the playability for the kids and satisfying the AFOLs (and also many kids aged between 9 and 13 i assume!) who wants a maximum of realism...

Just my 2 cts...

Edited January 14, 2014 by Kumbbl

[andythenorth]

When I was a kid I never ever wanted a universal set. Universal sets were for school. I wanted cars and trucks and diggers and excavators and forklifts, and that's what TLG made (1980s). My brother got a universal set for the flex elements once, but what he saved up money for was the Air Tech Claw Rig.

I have two kids now, take them to TrU, no universal set is going to stand out in a wall of Lego boxes. No model in a universal set is going to result in box photography that competes with a fully finished A model.

The comparison with Jobs is false, Jobs led the invention of new categories of device that offered people new affordances, mostly new ways to share their baby photos and Skype Grandma. Trying to push toy sets into a channel that doesn't want them has no relation.

If as AFOLs you want to *buy* universal sets, find a Lego Dacta education reseller. Dacta is easy to get hold of, in the UK at least. Dacta offers universal sets. https://education.le...d-machines-set

I did buy the Krazy Kontraptions book on recommendations above, something like that would hold my kids attention for days or weeks. But the Amazon reseller failed to mention that the parts were missing from the book. Meh. Admin.

Edited January 14, 2014 by andythenorth

[Kumbbl]

When I was a kid I never ever wanted a universal set. Universal sets were for school. I wanted cars and trucks and diggers and excavators and forklifts, and that's what TLG made (1980s). My brother got a universal set for the flex elements once, but what he saved up money for was the Air Tech Claw Rig.

I have two kids now, take them to TrU, no universal set is going to stand out in a wall of Lego boxes. No model in a universal set is going to result in box photography that competes with a fully finished A model.

The comparison with Jobs is false, Jobs led the invention of new categories of device that offered people new affordances, mostly new ways to share their baby photos and Skype Grandma. Trying to push toy sets into a channel that doesn't want them has no relation.

If as AFOLs you want to *buy* universal sets, find a Lego Dacta education reseller. Dacta is easy to get hold of, in the UK at least. Dacta offers universal sets. https://education.le...d-machines-set

I did buy the Krazy Kontraptions book on recommendations above, something like that would hold my kids attention for days or weeks. But the Amazon reseller failed to mention that the parts were missing from the book. Meh. Admin.

let us agree that we do not agree ;-)

and these education sets are way under-dimensioned to arouse AFOLs interest - there is really no sexyness within... suited for schools but nothing else...