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LukeWarmTea

NZ scientist writes open letter to TLC - asks for 'Janus' head

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Award winning NZ scientist Siouxsie Wiles wrote a short open letter to TLC on her website: http://sciblogs.co.n...letter-to-lego/

asking if TLC could again address the gender imbalance issues in their products, this time CMFs, and proposes an hitherto unthought of solution.

It hit NZ current affairs mag http://www.listener....-are-the-women/ and I wonder if it will spread?

My query is - what do you (as an AFOL or PFOL or whatever) think of the idea of two faced minifigs, with female on one side and male on the other?

Personally I think if it is restricted to non-licensed themes and just appears in the CMF series then bring it on! But I would feel strange picking up a Batman that could turn into a Batwoman, and I'm not sure how it would work in classic themes like City - surely just a better representation of women (with better facial expressions) would suffice?

Edited: A word.

Edited by LukeWarmTea

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I think that's just unnecessary. I mean, come on...they're Lego...if you want to change the gender, just change the minifigure head! All a "janus" head would do would be to remove a secondary facial expression. Plus, all of the torso prints would then need to be gender neutral so as they could work with both heads (Female bodies would then be a problem, since a princess with a duel man face would be weird). And finally, as a wise commentor pointed out on her article, the majority of minifigure heads are already unisex (Standard minifigure smile face for example), and their gender is determained by their hair/outfit rather than just facial features. I just think this is about turning minifigures/toys into a big gender issue.

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Oh there are lots of this kind of issues accross different themes! You, know, what if opposite sex (other than expected) likes the theme?

Friends - girls only, no male figures!

Bionicle/Hero Factory - no girlish figures!

Technic - no pink/pastel colours and no female figures!

System/City theme is kind of neutral.

And I really don't think themes above have issues I've stated.

Edited by zux

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A lot of the maletorsoes can be used with female faces and/or hair of choice and the other way around you can make a man in a dress, a beaded lady - only the imagination is your limit, when it concerns the classic minifig.

Their head are not attached to the body like they are on dolls.

Okay, there is a tiny problem when it comes to the Friendsfigures, only three male figures (a dad, a boy from school and a boy on a boat).

I really don't like this kind of milimeterdemocracy so many strong women outthere is demanding, well it feels like they are demanding it.

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A lot of the maletorsoes can be used with female faces and/or hair of choice and the other way around you can make a man in a dress, a beaded lady - only the imagination is your limit, when it concerns the classic minifig.

Their head are not attached to the body like they are on dolls.

Okay, there is a tiny problem when it comes to the Friendsfigures, only three male figures (a dad, a boy from school and a boy on a boat).

I really don't like this kind of milimeterdemocracy so many strong women outthere is demanding, well it feels like they are demanding it.

Chocolatecake, you toke the words from my mouth ! I can't see other toys where you have this freedom ! Beside, I'm not sure all parents would appreciate there children playing with transgender minifigs.Here in France, half the population would be shocked "Oulala" ...

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I always thought that Lego is about building 'anything' out of basic shapes ... Of course there are those who are in it only for the minifigs, and gender makes a difference to some.

I do find mini-figs to be a pricey alternative (and limited playability) as compared to regular dolls. I must commend TLG though for working very hard into luring girls towards Lego... whether with the friends sets, the old clickits, or even the new assortment of colors (pink, purple, lavender, ...) which my girls prefer over the 'boys' colors. To each his own I guess ...

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The real problem is probably that every minifig not wearing lipstick is assumed to be male. Well, maybe the're ALL male and some just like to wear women's clothes. You never know.

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I think her solution is simple, elegant and practical. Even if only some of the heads were printed M/F it would improve the situation greatly.

I would also like to see more "female" heads with alternate printing that was not simply fear/screaming.

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I think her solution is solving a problem from 3-5 years ago. The actual spread of male to female minifigs has greatly changed in the past two years. (with some variation depending on who exactly a line is targeted at). And TLG shows every inclination to continue increasing female minifigs in sets. I think the janus head solution comes off as clumsy. and would feel like taking away the expressiveness of the current dual expressions or emotions.

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Taking away from the current use of dual-sided heads is indeed the biggest problem with this proposal. Currently, dual-sided heads are used primarily for giving the same character multiple expressions, and they typically work quite well for that. This solution would eliminate the ability to give the same fig a range of emotions. Sure, in at least some cases you could exchange the head for alternate emotions instead; but why do that when you can just as easily exchange heads to change gender?

There are other problems with this, too. Kids who are used to the reverse side of the head being an alternate expression might be confused by the male-to-female transition taking its place. The proposal would make little-to-no sense in story themes like Ninjago where most of the figs explicitly depict individual characters, not to mention licensed themes where Lego simply doesn't have the option of inventing "genderbent" versions of characters. And the proposal would be pretty ineffectual for changing the gender of a fig whose body or hairpiece was already explicitly gendered, like a bare-chested torso or a hairdo with pigtails.

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The real problem is probably that every minifig not wearing lipstick is assumed to be male. Well, maybe the're ALL male and some just like to wear women's clothes. You never know.

What about the minifig heads with facial hair?

But there is a lot of minifig heads that doen't have either lipstick or facial hair, which can be used for both male and female.

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aurly, on 03 December 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

The real problem is probably that every minifig not wearing lipstick is assumed to be male. Well, maybe the're ALL male and some just like to wear women's clothes. You never know.

What about the minifig heads with facial hair?

I live in the college triangle formed by MIT, Harvard and Tufts, and let me tell you, during pledge week at the frats, it's not uncommon to see guys walking around town with full beards, wearing lipstick and eye shadow while wearing ladies lingerie so I guess I've just been desensitized to the whole mix and match thing when it comes to making mini figures reflect reality.

I think a more useful way to address gender stereo types in LEGO (and other toys as well) is simply not to promote the cliches. Women are half the population and jobs need to be filled. The days when girls grew up to be (exclusively) waitresses, secretaries, teachers and nurses whilst waiting for the right man to come along and turn her into a stay-at-home mom are pretty much gone. I'd welcome sets that have a 50/50 gender balance regardless of topic. Let's get Rosie the Riveter into some constructions sets, or Flo the firefighter, Kerri the Cop, Barb the banker, etc. If you want your 4 year old girl to believe that she can grow up to be and do anything isn't space shuttle kit that clearly shows one pilot of each gender, equal in skill, responsibility and respect, better than just a reversible head for a neutral figure taken out of context.

The failing I often see when well meaning people take up the banner of "gender equality" in toys is that often obsess about what they, as adults, are reading into what they see rather than looking through the eyes of a child what messages are actually being received. Long term, gender equality isn't just about breaking how girls conform to stereotypes; it's about breaking everyone's expectations and not subtly brainwashing everyone into embracing yesterday's status quo. It's just as important for little boys to see girls as potential CEOs, scientists, etc. as it is for girls to look beyond the princess-in-waiting cliche. As a "stereotypical" boys' toy LEGO is in a great position to address this, not by making boys play with Friends sets or only producing that really cool new part in pink, but simply by randomizing gender in the various roles mini figures play in sets. Years ago, Lara Croft taught us that boys will accept a female protagonist so long as the game is still fun, so why not put more women in Galaxy Patrol? Would it be the end of the world if a jouster in a Kingdoms set took off her helmet and turned out to be a girl (a la Brianne of Tarth), granted things didn't end well for Joan of Arc but you gotta admit, she broke down some stereotypes.

Granted some themes are harder to balance than others -cough- LOTR -cough- but even there, Galadriel is one of the most important figures in Middle Earth so where is she? We had to wait over a year just for Arwen and when we finally do get one of her, it's the beloved daughter and love interest of Aragon Arwen, not the "If you want him, come and take him!" Arwen that takes on on the Nazgul and races for the Ford of Bruinen. Where's Eowyn ("I am no man!") and her battle with the Witch King of Agmar? All teachable moments that could be so much fun you don't even realize you're (un)learning something.

I'm not saying every female figure has to be the next Xena Warrior Princess, but it would be refreshing to see TLG do a better job of mixing things up when it comes to gender cliches rather than entire themes where females don't exist and others where their life's ambition is to find the right shade of lipstick to go with their princess outfit.

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^Good points.

I'd love to have more female figures, just to even out the people in my city. At least with the Christmas sets they seem to be including more females and of course the mini-dolls aspect of Friends, but as regular minifigures females are few and far between. I'd love to see more females in non-traditional roles just to "be the change you want to see." I, of course, make figures for my daughter that were designed as men and turn them into female, which is good for us, but not in the grand scheme of things for long term balance.

Last Christmas I bought a few of the male doctor in 2012 hospital set and turned one into a female that "looked" like my daughter and she was super excited. It doesn't have the female curve lines and with a different head/hair combo you can't tell that it wasn't designed to be female. Granted, I came from the early 90s LEGO sets that didn't differentiate the torso at all. I rather like that idea. I don't particularly care for the Janus head though. I just think TLG should incorporate more females into their sets and call it good. At the very least, baby steps and just get a few more here and there to increase the percentage balance.

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I probably wouldn't like this solution because boobs. I mean, so far most female minifigures have boobs except kid minifigures really. Boobs kind of stand out as a gender identifier. Sometimes you can't see 'em but if suddenly no females had boobs I'd wonder where all the boobs went.

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^total nightmare!

Although if you look at the winter village sets (at least the freebie last year with the sleigh) they used an adult female torso for the little girl, so she still had curves and whatnot. Kind of creepy. But I don't really notice when the females do and don't have curves. Some torsos would be obvious without the curves/chest but I don't think I see a difference.

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We need to be careful in seeking to apply one size fits all adult gender perceptions to kids. Children's perceptions of gender evolves as they age. Young children are pretty much gender neutral. Products aimed at the lower range of TLG's target audience do well with a good gender mix. Note genders are quite balanced in Duplo. And we still see more female Minifigs in City then we do elsewhere. As kids age their perceptions age and as a result so do their play styles and preferences. They do begin to rather sharply sex segregate (heck if you check all the major news sites today you will find a rather concrete study proving that these differences are wired in.) during these ages boys do tend to look dis favorably on female toys for play purposes, while girls evolve a very different play style. Ninjago as a result is more targeted at these slightly older boys and Friends at the slightly older girls. As they age further the preferences will start to converge again in the more adult or advanced subjects (Modulars, Winter Village, Trains, CMF's as collectables, etc) and we once again see a broader spread of minifig representation. (Hmmm? Now that I actually type this out it dawns on me that maybe TLG has a much better idea of what they are doing than anyone gives them credit for?)

Licensed stuff is mostly at the mercy of the License. Indiana Jones has a surprisingly high number of female characters and figs. Tolkien is a sausage fest ( not surprising once one realizes that the LotR books were in part his way of dealing with the memories, trauma and PTSD from fighting in the trenches of WWI. Where women were rare and were mainly nurses.) I'll concede that the Superhero lines are probably the biggest disappointment given the plethora of female source material. But the line is still aimed squarely at the Ninjago crowd. At a minimum maybe increasing the ratio of sane vs insane female characters would go a long way.

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I live in the college triangle formed by MIT, Harvard and Tufts, and let me tell you, during pledge week at the frats, it's not uncommon to see guys walking around town with full beards, wearing lipstick and eye shadow while wearing ladies lingerie so I guess I've just been desensitized to the whole mix and match thing when it comes to making mini figures reflect reality.

Not to hijack this thread but, you bring back wonderful memories ... I attended MIT over 86-94 ... and each year, in January, MIT had a Robot Design Course / Competition (6.270) with technic lego bricks and micro-processors ... This ultimately led to the Lego Mindstorms Brick.

Back to original topic.

Edited by DrJB

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When I read something like this I just automatically think someone is trying to justify some funding by putting out a paper or 'research' material.

Look at it... well respected scientist wants gender neutral Lego heads. Because that's what well respected scientists are all eager to create the solution for.

No hydrogen fuel cell or anything as unimportant for this scientist.

CHANGE THE BLOODY HEAD TO A FEMALE ONE!!!!!

Aisles and aisles of toys... games, books, action figures, dolls... none of them 'editable' or buildable yet the one toy out there that is genuinely buildable and customisable needs to change?

Get over yourself.

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Hmmm? Now that I actually type this out it dawns on me that maybe TLG has a much better idea of what they are doing than anyone gives them credit for?

Precisely !!!

Edited by DrJB

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I am sorry but IMO that letter is a waste of time and silly. Lego is a privately-owned business, they do what they think it is best for their business. It is a TOY! If you want more female little lego figures in your collection, just buy 1000 of the same set that has some of them and sell the "boys" in Bricklink or ebay for a cheap value since you don't like them.

Lego mimics the real world so if you want to change Lego, do something to change the real world.

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Asking TLG for a greater spread of female representation is not unreasonable. However the people asking should take a better assessment of Lego's current policies and offerings rather than responding to out of date Internet rankings from those with more agenda than facts. To be fair there is room for improvement on both sides. Lego has made great strides in becoming less boy focused but still has a few weak spots ( as an example in my collection there are probably a hundred assorted blondes and brunette females. 4 or 5 clearly identifiable Asian females. A host of multicolored female aliens. And yet the only identifiable black females (humans) are from the Friends line. A young black FOL of my acquaintance does take some issue with this. ). Whereas much of the push for more female Minifigs seems to be coming from a certain Cloistered University Inteligensia, heavily influenced by poorly supported feminist outrage and urban legend. (Really? City sets are bad because the box is blue? Seriously folks?)

In the end Lego's best option is to read the letter, nod their heads politely, and then do what they feel is best for their business, product line, and what the kids seem to enjoy playing with. They've been right more often than wrong so far.

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Whereas much of the push for more female Minifigs seems to be coming from a certain Cloistered University Inteligensia, heavily influenced by poorly supported feminist outrage and urban legend. (Really? City sets are bad because the box is blue? Seriously folks?)

Faefrost, I'm surprised to read this from you - there's no need to smear feminism nor academia, considering they're two of the few institutions which actually try to understand and address gender inequity. Without that kind of pressure, there is far less incentive for the status quo to change. I don't want to use her to fuel the kind of reactionary "it's just a toy, get over it" dismissal of LEGO's social implications (not that you are doing that, but I see it whenever gender comes up in the LEGO context).

Anyway, Wiles' blog post seemed to be a rumination in good faith and hardly anything to get upset about. I read this thread and then read her blog post. I'm amazed how angry people are over an easy-going suggestion that expresses a huge fondness for LEGO.

Two points to the thread in general:

1) Just because LEGO is a toy doesn't mean it doesn't have social and political implications. Toys don't just reflect the world, they shape them.

2) Scientists, like most people, are capable of having multiple opinions and doing many things in parallel. There's no way Wiles' blog post was done in lieu of 'useful' research.

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it dawns on me that maybe TLG has a much better idea of what they are doing than anyone gives them credit for?

I tend to agree. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing more female minifigs and all. It would be great! However, TLG are not ignorant to what's going on around them. They know their market better than most anyone else does. I had actually thought of the female on one side, male on the other side heads before, and I personally think it's likely something TLG has thought of as well. :sceptic:

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Faefrost, I'm surprised to read this from you - there's no need to smear feminism nor academia, considering they're two of the few institutions which actually try to understand and address gender inequity.

There is legitimate social pressure. And then there is some of what attempts to disguise itself as such on modern college campuses, but lacks any actual ethical, scientific or academic standards. And it is getting increasingly difficult for the average layperson to distinguish between the two. Case in point, Ms. Sarkeesian's well funded, broadly watched but factually shaky and ethically challenged presentations on video games, or her two part series on Lego in particular.

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