The Lego Movie and canon

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As I mentioned in previous reply, the story was meant to focus on an innocent rookie and his master builder companions with big personalities, so CP characters wouldn't have any impact on the main story. The involvement of CP might only be a respect to existed stories. If there is any doubt, it would be whether the writers had ever decided to include CP, or they never really mind this non-physical theme story,

because the TLM story is based on what common family know about physical products and CP doesn't count, unless the writers regard Team Clutch as the equally new characters to this theme.

That's pretty true. CP didn't actually include too many original concepts excepts the original protegonists, but just reintroduces some existed themes. TLM did consider how to relate the movie content to physical products (CMF series, convertible vehicles). Though not well-arranged, but this movie does know how to keep its own style with original scenes.

Regarding to this topic, I think CP might have its own chance to extend its own world if the writers have interesets. Unfortunately LEGO Organization to TLC isn't what S.H.I.E.L.D to Marvle franchise at all. Now I assume TLC is more willing to extend the TLM canon rather than take a look back on CP.

Sorry, wrong hairpiece (which should be Jack Fury's), the problem should be his teammates.

Yeah, but they never made it in black, right? Do you think his head fits?

Are there any characters in that script that didn't make it into the movie, by the way?

[Oky]

As I mentioned in previous reply, the story was meant to focus on an innocent rookie and his master builder companions with big personalities, so CP characters wouldn't have any impact on the main story. The involvement of CP might only be a respect to existed stories. If there is any doubt, it would be whether the writers had ever decided to include CP, or they never really mind this non-physical theme story,

because the TLM story is based on what common family know about physical products and CP doesn't count, unless the writers regard Team Clutch as the equally new characters to this theme.

Yes, in terms of a CP cameo in TLM, it wouldn't really work either since, like you said, aside from the main characters, they only used already existing minifigs and parts that most people would be familiar with in TLM.

I think CP might have its own chance to extend its own world if the writers have interesets. Unfortunately LEGO Organization to TLC isn't what S.H.I.E.L.D to Marvle franchise at all. Now I assume TLC is more willing to extend the TLM canon rather than take a look back on CP.

True, they easily could have made sequels if they wanted to, but since it wasn't as well-received as they hoped it would be, it was already unlikely that they would continue it, and now that TLM is so much more popular, it's never going to happen. Personally, I'm okay with that.

Are there any characters in that script that didn't make it into the movie, by the way?

Yes, quite a few actually. Emmet's mother Doris plays a big part in it and there are some minor characters such as Krav M’Ga and Duplo. There were also a few more licensed characters such as Indiana Jones and the Hobbits. It's an enjoyable read, so check it out sometime.

[rollermonkey]

There's a whole lot of overthinking in this thread... I think it was pretty clear that as far as TLG is concerned, there is no such thing as a single, unifying canon, but rather that whatever each of us wants to create in their own imagination is all that matters.

While it may be fun to create a story that does pull everything LEGO into one universe, TLG isn't interested in having an official one because that would inherently be limiting to the imagination.

If that's already been agreed on, sorry, didn't mean to rain on the parade, but if you're still trying to pigeonhole the movie into an official storyline, I think you're way off track.

That's why I haven't voted in the poll... It's not 'just a movie', but it doesn't affect the other themes, either. It exists in it's own universe, but there's no canon for it to affect, so option 2 isn't quite right, either.

It certainly is fascinating, and thought provoking to see how vastly differently people interpret it. I just read a review that felt the movie is an allegory about capitalism vs communism. I mean, WOW. I understood how this person found that in the movie, but in think these interpretations say more about the people watching the film than it does about the film itself.

Edited March 29, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Oky]

Yes, we are aware of all that, thank you. And thanks for sharing your view on this subject matter.

It certainly is fascinating, and thought provoking to see how vastly differently people interpret it. I just read a review that felt the movie is an allegory about capitalism vs communism. I mean, WOW. I understood how this person found that in the movie, but in think these interpretations say more about the people watching the film than it does about the film itself.

I completely agree. It's amazing how some people can find corporate, political, or religious allegories and conspiracies in even the silliest kids movies. Sure, those allegories can be found in this movie if you look deep enough, but those people seriously need to lighten up and get a life. It makes trying to fit the movie in with other Lego stories look like the most harmless endeavor.

[TalonCard]

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Emmet's mother Doris plays a big part in it and there are some minor characters such as Krav M’Ga and Duplo. There were also a few more licensed characters such as Indiana Jones and the Hobbits. It's an enjoyable read, so check it out sometime.<br />

Indeed! Thank you so much for posting the link. I always enjoy reading early drafts of my favorite movies because you can see the writers working towards the best, most meaningful version of the story. Some thoughts:

The relationship between Finn and the Man Upstairs is completely different in this draft. The basic idea is there, but there's no emotional weight to it. Doris is a fascinating character, but ultimately a redundant one. (In this movie, that is. I could see her showing up in the sequel.)

Lord Business was originally named Black Falcon, which has resonance for LEGO fans but doesn't really suit him. It also seems to be a reference to a character in the old Magic Portal brick film, which has certain similarities to The LEGO Movie. I wonder if it wasn't a jumping off point for this film, in which case that director certainly deserves some credit.

Octan isn't mentioned at all; someone must have pointed out that LEGO already had a multinational corporation to use.

There are just a ton of great gags and lines that didn't make it into the final film. I hope they make it onto the DVD or into the sequel. The bit about the pirate beard names was hilarious!

Wyldstyle is here, though she's called Gemini, and so is Batman...but Wyldstyle is dating Metalbeard instead! (Metalbeard is called Neckbeard, which is a great silly pirate name but doesn't suit a steampunk cyborg.) It's not nearly as funny--whoever had the idea to put Wyldstyle and Batman together instead is a genius.

It's not especially clear in the film, but this draft does confirm the notion that Vitruvius is native to Middle Zealand.

The best part about this script is that the entire thing is written in the same childish hyperbolic style as the dialogue. It also makes constant references to being a script, and I think Emmet even makes a reference to the writing of the script itself at one point. Great stuff.

TC

Edited March 29, 2014 by TalonCard

[Fenson Junior]

Deal with the fact that humans are now part of the LEGO-universe and that you play with material that doesn't possess any life.

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Yes, quite a few actually. Emmet's mother Doris plays a big part in it and there are some minor characters such as Krav M’Ga and Duplo. There were also a few more licensed characters such as Indiana Jones and the Hobbits. It's an enjoyable read, so check it out sometime.

That's incredible! Thanks for telling me that.

Incidentally, according to IMDB:

"When the two pieces of the underground tunnel are closing, Johnny Thunder drops his hat and quickly grabs it before the doors shut."

in a reference to Raiders of the Lost Ark. Funny to think that after they couldn't get Indiana Jones in their movie they not only bring in an Indiana Jones analogue of LEGO's to make a cameo instead, but also give him something Indy-related to do. Maybe it was a leftover from this earlier version, but I'd have to check the script. Makes you wonder why they'd ever get Clutch when they can not only have the actual Indiana Jones, but also a pretty good backup. I'll see what other characters are in the script.

Deal with the fact that humans are now part of the LEGO-universe and that you play with material that doesn't possess any life.

INCLUDING BIONICLE. Hero Factory on the other hand, already showed that in the adverts.

It makes trying to fit the movie in with other Lego stories look like the most harmless endeavor.

Like how the cameos in Backlot and Blacked Eyed Piece fit in with Bionicle's storyline?

[GregoryBrick]

I completely agree. It's amazing how some people can find corporate, political, or religious allegories and conspiracies in even the silliest kids movies. Sure, those allegories can be found in this movie if you look deep enough, but those people seriously need to lighten up and get a life. It makes trying to fit the movie in with other Lego stories look like the most harmless endeavor.

Children's media (literature, film, music) has always reflected and shaped the culture to which it belongs. As part of this, the film industry unconsciously reproduces important ideas which structure culture, e.g. what is good vs. what is bad, what has value and what doesn't, and so forth. The recognition and analysis of this, regardless of the film in question, enhances one's relation to media, and doesn't preclude enjoyment of it either. So I figure there is no downside to being a sophisticated, critical viewer who can read film on multiple levels. When I compare people I know who watch film in this way to those who just consume things at a surface level, it's pretty clear who has 'gotten a life'.

[Oky]

I'm not saying being critical is bad and I'm not berating children's media either, in the contrary. I agree that it is good to be able to analyze a movie, but if you look so much into it that you see themes in the film that completely miss the point of the movie and prevent you from enjoying an otherwise perfectly enjoyable piece of entertainment, then you're way off track. Because that's not "being a sophisticated, critical viewer," it's just nitpicking.

In the case of The Lego Movie, it's mainly about creativity vs. conformity. Sure, one can see other hidden messages if you analyze it a certain way, but most of them are unintentional and inaccurate. The fact that all the theories about the hidden meaning of the film are contradicting each other so much is proof of that. So anyone who is giving this well-crafted film a one-star rating because they think it is "indoctrinating our children" is clearly interpreting it wrong and should rethink the way they look at movies.

That is all I will say on this matter here since this is getting off topic.

[Dorayaki]

Yes, in terms of a CP cameo in TLM, it wouldn't really work either since, like you said, aside from the main characters, they only used already existing minifigs and parts that most people would be familiar with in TLM.

True, they easily could have made sequels if they wanted to, but since it wasn't as well-received as they hoped it would be, it was already unlikely that they would continue it, and now that TLM is so much more popular, it's never going to happen. Personally, I'm okay with that.

Yes, quite a few actually. Emmet's mother Doris plays a big part in it and there are some minor characters such as Krav M’Ga and Duplo. There were also a few more licensed characters such as Indiana Jones and the Hobbits. It's an enjoyable read, so check it out sometime.

Well, that's the issue of "equality for physical and non-physical" in Lego history. In a different view, half of the TLM cast (including background characters) are newly created for this movie, these are CMF minifigures, normal citizens and the main characters, so the appearance of Team Clutch wouldn't have been too abrupt. It's just whether common audience can recognize them (maybe yes, maybe not) and whether they can have useful impacts on this story.

I have to admit that Team Emmet is more iconic, interesting and appealing to the general market (and me) as the representive of official Lego crossover. But If CP and TLM can coexist, I think it can be interesting to see Team Clutch versus Team Emmet (mature vs messy).

Honestly CP is kinda like an agent theme (since Jack Fury looks like CP ). Maybe CP could have been a subtheme of Agents instead of Ultra Agents?.

I didn't have too much time to read the full script, briefly here's what I think:

Doris might also represent the original idea of this story, but generally the way her represents is too obvious to be a "metaphor". How Mr Business confronts the Lego world is a macro view of how Finn's father Ted treats his Lego exhibitation, and it can make better impacts on audience. Also, TLM didn't really show how minifigures have their "childhood" and "family", which could be why Doris couldn't appear here.

The only opinon I might have is the gender role. Besides the Friends issue, I would hope to see one of the parent/child be a mother or daughter. Now Doris is deleted and Emmet/Business/Finn/Ted are all guys. I hope to see Doris (in real world: Ted's wife?) or a new girl FOL appear in the sequel, but it still depends how the story goes. Or maybe Mrs. Scratchen-Post inherits the attributes of Doris?

Batman the love rival works in many way, for the lack of time to describe Wyldstyle's crush, for indicating that Batman isn't Wyldstyle's real match, or for other provocative meanings .

It feels like that DC Superheroes are the real stars of the master builders. Johnny Thunder and other licesnsed characters only had a cameo appearance in the hall of fame, which looks like an inappopriate balance. It's not the main idea of this movie but fans would be happy to see more cross-license canons.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Dorayaki

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I have to admit that Team Emmet is more iconic, interesting and appealing to the general market (and me) as the representive of official Lego crossover. But If CP and TLM can coexist, I think it can be interesting to see Team Clutch versus Team Emmet (mature vs messy).

Honestly CP is kinda like an agent theme (since Jack Fury looks like CP ). Maybe CP could have been a subtheme of Agents instead of Ultra Agents?.

Team Clutch wins. Their movie doesn't even mention the word LEGO.

And wow, he does look like him if he got some stubble. Funny, I just put back the Indiana Jones figure to normal...

[Faefrost]

I think you all are missing a key point in the TLM universe. It is exactly what the characters say it is. No more, no less;

The themes were all laid out as a broad displays on the Dad's shelves or display tables. Much like what we tend to do as AFOLs. Organized by themes, but clearly moving from one to the other with some spillover. As the Dad became more "adult" and obsessive compulsive and perfection oriented, he walled each off, creating separate theme specific diorama areas for each on his tables. Much like you sometimes do for Model Railroads, or see at large AFOL layouts, or even how Lego displays things at Toy Fairs. The "walls separating the worlds" are literally just that. Scene breaks and display partitions. The tunnels between the worlds, the Cloud Cuckoo land etc are all the kids imaginary justification for going back and mixing the themes up. For playing with different things. Any theme could be anywhere in there so long as there is space on the table. Distant planets are simply themes sitting on shelves around the walls, or hanging overhead. There is no "cannon" beyond "is there room on the shelf. Clutch Powers didn't appear, in part, because there never has been a Clutch Powers set or even minifig. There is no toy version of him to exist in the TLM world.

[Dorayaki]

The themes were all laid out as a broad displays on the Dad's shelves or display tables. Much like what we tend to do as AFOLs. Organized by themes, but clearly moving from one to the other with some spillover. There is no "cannon" beyond "is there room on the shelf. Clutch Powers didn't appear, in part, because there never has been a Clutch Powers set or even minifig. There is no toy version of him to exist in the TLM world.

First of all, let's not forget that TLM original characters never actually exist, they just magically appear to meet Finn's demand. Seriously, I do agree with your point. There have been nonphyiscal stories and characters in the Lego universe, and TLM is only able to show the physical side because it needs to create a real playing experience in order to relate to Finn, Ted and the whole audience. A bunch of non-physical characters that refer to Lego history might miss the point.

But in the view of FOLs, that doesn't mean we never put the unphysical Lego world in their heart. Suppose that there wasn't merchandise advertising for TLM, I believe the audience would still like TLM and want its physical things. The present TV show canons make impacts on children even though not the whole part of story are physical. Nonphysical side of Lego canon is an interesting topic, but not sure if it is able to be discussed in the future sequel to TLM.

Another point is, since TLM merchandise is a very good chance for nonphysical characters becoming physical, I believe most FOLs are all willing to see them here.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Dorayaki

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Team Emmet wins. Their movie doesn't even mention the word LEGO.

And wow, he does look like him if he got some stubble. Funny, I just put back the Indiana Jones figure to normal...

Sorry, I typed in the wrong word there. And I referring to how they use LEGO as a lame "We build on each other" message in Clutch, while in The LEGO Movie they don't even mention the word 'LEGO' within the entire body of the film.