The Lego Movie and canon

[Oky]

The LEGO Movie is about as meta a movie as it gets. I take back everything I said about President Business--the whole megacorporation angle, while important, is not the main point of the character. It's a damn clever bit of misdirection. The makers of the movie aren't making a hamfisted attempt at satire; they're trying to say something about a certain branch of AFOLs that probably includes those of us who make detailed lists about the "official" LEGO universe. The enemy isn't some tired old cliche; the enemy is us. Well played.

Indeed. Even though I had a feeling that the movie might go in that direction, I didn't think it would, but boy was I wrong. And yes, it was brilliant. It almost made me feel silly for ever trying to figure out what the "official canon" might be, but the way I see it, these conversations are just fun little exercises in putting different puzzle pieces together. In reality, I couldn't care less what the official canon is, if there is one. I have created my own idea of how the Lego universe works (as I should, according to the movie) and I would never let any official material tell me what can or cannot happen in my Lego stories. I only use them as inspiration. That, I think, is the whole point of Lego's official stories.

Oh, and I'm sticking to my theory that the Lego Movie is a movie within the Lego universe, whether they are aware that they are toys or not (which they probably are to a certain extent), especially after the release of this press-exclusive promotional set which depicts the characters from the movie sitting in a theater watching the movie.

[WaysofSorting]

Just saw the movie myself. Two claw-hands up. Uh...spoilers?

TC - you do a great job of not spoiling it - and your words are well chosen - I went into it expecting a twist, but what I was thinking of was eliminated within the first five or six minutes. (minutes 7 through 9 were me feeling stupid for even considering it, minute 10 I was back to enjoying the film). The denouement of the movie was well done. - though I was surprised and worried they wouldn't be able to pull it off.

Also - nice spoiler in itself - I was so hyped about the video I had to wiki-google Vitruvius the historical figure to see why they named the wizard after him.

edit - to keep on track with the canon talk, post viewing - I went into it thinking I wouldn't care what the movie expressed. I came out the same way - the movie plays tongue-in-cheek with some non-system themes, and certainly ribs the AFOLs. This was a great movie about generations - something you'd expect from LEGO, where family has always been important. When it comes to canon, then, I left movie the same way - this was all someone else's MoCanon/headcanon. Mine is safely mine, no need to even worry about the movie.

Edited February 9, 2014 by WaysofSorting

[rollermonkey]

Just looked up Vitruvius myself. Very cool. I actually lived in Formia when I was stationed in Italy.

Very apropos, naming this character for him.

[TalonCard]

Indeed--thank you for bringing him up, Waysof, I hadn't made that connection.

Finn is clearly a very knowledgeable kid to be naming his character after the historical figure--maybe he's homeschooled? ;)

Also, as long as I'm speculating in spoilers, how meta would it be if Will Ferrell's character was also Harold Crick from Stranger Than Fiction?

It almost made me feel silly for ever trying to figure out what the "official canon" might be, but the way I see it, these conversations are just fun little exercises in putting different puzzle pieces together.

I'm glad you said "almost". We certainly don't want to be like Lord Business; trying to dictate order over imagination. But, the official stories are poorly documented, needlessly obscure, and under appreciated. Many talented people have worked to create entertaining LEGO-based stories, so trying to sort them all out is absolutely a worthwhile endeavor.

Oh, and I'm sticking to my theory that the Lego Movie is a movie within the Lego universe, whether they are aware that they are toys or not (which they probably are to a certain extent), especially after the release of this press-exclusive promotional set which depicts the characters from the movie sitting in a theater watching the movie.

I want that set so much!!! True story: when Phantom Menace came out, I built something similar so all of my Star Wars minifigures could come watch the movie with me. There is also, of course,

, which would seem to support your theory. Wyldstyle's comment about LEGO figurines is funnier than anything in the movie, and that's saying something.

TC - you do a great job of not spoiling it - and your words are well chosen - I went into it expecting a twist, but what I was thinking of was eliminated within the first five or six minutes. (minutes 7 through 9 were me feeling stupid for even considering it, minute 10 I was back to enjoying the film).

Thank you! I'm curious, what twist were you expecting?

TC

[Dorayaki]

Well, I'm not too surprised after seeing the whole story. We've seen all kinds of predictions.

From what we see from the Lego world, it's not too far from what we though at first, all themes coexist at the same time. The Castle era that has not TV to watch even coexist with City, just like Clutch Powers showed. The only thing that surprised me alittle is TLC added lots of licensed themes, even Speer Racer was there.

So here is the question: does the world that Finn imagines represent the real official Lego world (since he was just reading the scripts written by TLC)? Or the two actually have nothing to do with each other? As I mentioned, the interaction between different licenses, such as the relationship of two homDumbledore and Gandolf, seems alittle unexpected. What if one day the Ninjago heros pay a visit in Octan and they found the president was a 30yo lady rather than Lord Business (suppose that he didn't retire), and TLC would tell you that TLM has nothing to do with any offical story they're going on with?

Still, the most disspointing thing is the lack of Friends in my heart. Oh, so it's that bast Finn's fault?

Edited February 10, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Condor]

This discussion reminds me of English class where we were looking for symbolism in a sunrise when the author just saw a beautiful sunrise that morning and thought of writing it down

I think the Lego Universe exists in every kid's home as shown in the movie. They all coexist because Finn (or his dad) owns all those sets and is able to create an amalgamated world. If a kid only has castle and city, then that is what the Lego Universe will be for him.

[rodiziorobs]

Same for Johnny and Josh. Why would they go through the trouble to give us this information if they didn't intend the stories to be connected?

Totally apart from LEGO, the Green Hornet (Britt Reid) is the great-grandson or whatever of the Lone Ranger (John Reid), but what does that have to really do with anything? The connection between them is fairly meaningless--sure they both wear a mask and fight injustice, blah, blah, blah, but the only real thing they have in common is that both movies were terrible (which is an argument for another day).

Really, though, the universe the various LEGO elements and themes share is connected, defined, and limited only by the amount of space it takes up in your house, multiplied by your imagination.

[trippybrowneyes]

The makers of the movie aren't making a hamfisted attempt at satire; they're trying to say something about a certain branch of AFOLs that probably includes those of us who make detailed lists about the "official" LEGO universe. The enemy isn't some tired old cliche; the enemy is us. Well played.

Indeed. After the movie, my husband turned to me and said, "I am not President Business!" Suuure. ;)

[SMC]

My wife said I was president business

Loving this topic btw

[Super Goblin]

Yeah it was funny, at that part my wife turned and looked at me and started laughing. After the movie she said I was president business.

[Faefrost]

Well, I'm not too surprised after seeing the whole story. We've seen all kinds of predictions.

From what we see from the Lego world, it's not too far from what we though at first, all themes coexist at the same time. The Castle era that has not TV to watch even coexist with City, just like Clutch Powers showed. The only thing that surprised me alittle is TLC added lots of licensed themes, even Speer Racer was there.

So here is the question: does the world that Finn imagines represent the real official Lego world (since he was just reading the scripts written by TLC)? Or the two actually have nothing to do with each other? As I mentioned, the interaction between different licenses, such as the relationship of two homDumbledore and Gandolf, seems alittle unexpected. What if one day the Ninjago heros pay a visit in Octan and they found the president was a 30yo lady rather than Lord Business (suppose that he didn't retire), and TLC would tell you that TLM has nothing to do with any offical story they're going on with?

Still, the most disspointing thing is the lack of Friends in my heart. Oh, so it's that bast Finn's fault?

I think you missed the most important takeaway...

you! me all of us around here are now officially Lego cannon ourselves. We exist within the Lego Universe. We have seen the integrated Lego Story and it is us. It's brilliant. And yet bordering on madness.

[obsidianheart]

"It's whatever anyone wants it to be for themselves, and that's awesome!"

[Brickadiergerard]

Yeah it was funny, at that part my wife turned and looked at me and started laughing. After the movie she said I was president business.

Glad to see this is a common experience.

[Dorayaki]

you! me all of us around here are now officially Lego cannon ourselves. We exist within the Lego Universe. We have seen the integrated Lego Story and it is us. It's brilliant. And yet bordering on madness.

Well... yes, but not the answer I guess. I mean fans can imagine a different world everyday, but can Lego do that? I'm not sure Lego stories should be something like the Superhero comics. Or unless TLC would avoid to talk about settings that could relate to this movie (eg, nobody has ever seen the Octan president since then).

Here is another problem: the licensed characters have a slightly different personality in the movie, for example, Batman is an arrogant rival of love interest, Dumblefore and Gandolf seem more childish than Vitruvius. Perhaps it's because of that Emmet has to be neglected by people or rejected by other master builders at first, no righteous and kind-hearted superhero would stand out to speak up for him. But does it mean that the movie has to be an unofficial canon?

Anyway, though not necessary, I guess kids would be happy to know that when they're watching the newest episode of Friends or Bionicle, Wyldstyle and Emmet are still fighting evil in another corner of that world.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Colossus]

I find the very idea of Lego "canon" bizarre, forcing any sort of rules on how to play seems so fundamentally un-Lego like. I know that, as a kid, my Pirates fought with Knights and Spacemen and it never once occurred to me that they shouldn't.

Imagination should be the only thing that dictates how you can play with Lego and long may that continue.

I agree. Isn't this the main theme streaked throughout the entire LEGO Movie?

Well, that and don't glue together all yer bricks.

...and, that perhaps Batman is a Douchebag.

[Faefrost]

Well... yes, but not the answer I guess. I mean fans can imagine a different world everyday, but can Lego do that? I'm not sure Lego stories should be something like the Superhero comics. Or unless TLC would avoid to talk about settings that could relate to this movie (eg, nobody has ever seen the Octan president since then).

Here is another problem: the licensed characters have a slightly different personality in the movie, for example, Batman is an arrogant rival of love interest, Dumblefore and Gandolf seem more childish than Vitruvius. Perhaps it's because of that Emmet has to be neglected by people or rejected by other master builders at first, no righteous and kind-hearted superhero would stand out to speak up for him. But does it mean that the movie has to be an unofficial canon?

Anyway, though not necessary, I guess kids would be happy to know that when they're watching the newest episode of Friends or Bionicle, Wyldstyle and Emmet are still fighting evil in another corner of that world.

Look a little closer at the Licensed characters and a few others

The actual break wasn't Licensed vs classic. It was named story driven characters vs common role characters. The Master Builders were all named characters that would become the focal points of play. The heroes, the Wizzards, etc. Even Benny while technically a more generic type is one that classically tended to form the basis for a childs storys. As opposed to yet another construction worker. The Master Builders are Master Builders and have the various personalities because they are or have been the focuses for the man upstairs building through his stories over time. So even with classic pre licensed, pre defined story sets, Benny tended to be the hero for the child, while the cops and firemen etc mostly filled in the roles. And that feeling just escalated as newer named characters and licensed characters started pouring in.

[Samiens]

Totally agree with Faefrost.

On the whole Batman thing, while obviously played for comic effect, its the first representation of him that really gets across that he loves being Batman and he is an arrogant douchebag (its part of what males him such a great character). I wonder how it resonates with kids though- the tv shows etc tend to show him as a more classic hero than the comics

[Darth Punk]

Totally agree with Faefrost.

On the whole Batman thing, while obviously played for comic effect, its the first representation of him that really gets across that he loves being Batman and he is an arrogant douchebag (its part of what males him such a great character). I wonder how it resonates with kids though- the tv shows etc tend to show him as a more classic hero than the comics

I think adults take batman character type much more seriously than kids do. Batman got many laughs.

[Samiens]

I thought he was hilarious in the movie (and I'm a Batman obsessive), although I know that some Batman fans take him pretty seriously! Batmans always been a massive jerk, compared to the far more considerate and compassionate Alfred creating an interesting tension- hes just an awesome jerk!

[Oky]

We certainly don't want to be like Lord Business; trying to dictate order over imagination. But, the official stories are poorly documented, needlessly obscure, and under appreciated. Many talented people have worked to create entertaining LEGO-based stories, so trying to sort them all out is absolutely a worthwhile endeavor.

Very true.

There is also, of course,

, which would seem to support your theory. Wyldstyle's comment about LEGO figurines is funnier than anything in the movie, and that's saying something.

Indeed, although in my initial theory I thought that the movie in the Lego world would be directed by minifigs, not the actual human directors of the real movie which is kind of a weird concept, but oh well.

And yes, I also found that some of the best jokes were in the promotional videos, although the ones in the movie were pretty good as well.

From what we see from the Lego world, it's not too far from what we though at first, all themes coexist at the same time. The Castle era that has not TV to watch even coexist with City, just like Clutch Powers showed. The only thing that surprised me alittle is TLC added lots of licensed themes, even Speer Racer was there.

So here is the question: does the world that Finn imagines represent the real official Lego world (since he was just reading the scripts written by TLC)? Or the two actually have nothing to do with each other? As I mentioned, the interaction between different licenses, such as the relationship of two homDumbledore and Gandolf, seems alittle unexpected. What if one day the Ninjago heros pay a visit in Octan and they found the president was a 30yo lady rather than Lord Business (suppose that he didn't retire), and TLC would tell you that TLM has nothing to do with any offical story they're going on with?

To answer your question: No.

First of all, as it has been pointed out before, the story was not written by TLC, only approved by them, so it's the movie makers imagining what a kid might imagine the Lego universe is like rather than TLC telling a kid how to imagine it. And secondly, this is what the the whole movie is about: Lego's official canon versus Mocanon. The world depicted in the movie is Mocanon at its finest and the world that President Business is trying to force onto the minifigs is the rigid, organized idea of Lego's official canon. The moral of the story is to not adhere too much to the official canon and rather come up with your own worlds and stories (although following the instructions can be good too sometimes). So no, Finn's world is definitely not the official Lego world.

Still, the most disappointing thing is the lack of Friends in my heart.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I did spot at least one Friends dolphin in the Cloud Cuckooland sequence, and we know that Heartlake City does exist in this world, even if it's only mentioned on a sign and not actually shown.

And yes, I guess it is kind of Finn's fault that there are no Friends in the movie since I assume that he is not interested in playing with "girl Legos". Then again, Unikitty and her whole world are his creation too, so he must have at least a bit of a feminine side.

My wife said I was president business

Seems like a very wife thing to say. Luckily I was spared of such comments from my friend who I went to see the movie with, although maybe it's just because he was tired.

Besides...

I don't think President Business represents all AFOLs, just the ones who are more concerned about having an orderly collection rather than actually using Lego for its intended purpose, a creative medium. So the movie doesn't just say "AFOLs are bad", but rather reminds them what Lego is truly about, which I was very glad to see!

[Archer]

Very minor spoilers below.

People keep mentioning that Friends minidolls and sets were not seen in the movie, but they were in the little slideshow of "worlds we don't talk about" Friends, Speed Racer, Bionicle, and Fabuland.

[Aanchir]

To answer your question: No.

First of all, as it has been pointed out before, the story was not written by TLC, only approved by them, so it's the movie makers imagining what a kid might imagine the Lego universe is like rather than TLC telling a kid how to imagine it. And secondly, this is what the the whole movie is about: Lego's official canon versus Mocanon. The world depicted in the movie is Mocanon at its finest and the world that President Business is trying to force onto the minifigs is the rigid, organized idea of Lego's official canon. The moral of the story is to not adhere too much to the official canon and rather come up with your own worlds and stories (although following the instructions can be good too sometimes). So no, Finn's world is definitely not the official Lego world.

Well, very few stories are "written by TLG". Story-writing is not their business, and most of the writers for LEGO TV shows, books, and movies are not actual employees of The LEGO Group. The main exceptions I know of are Greg Farshtey, long-time editor in chief of the LEGO Club Magazine, who's written all sorts of books for some of the LEGO Group's most story-intensive themes, and Daniel Lipkowitz, who has also been involved in writing for themes like Knights' Kingdom II and designed several BIONICLE alternate and combination models.

Even the story briefs for a lot of LEGO themes, as they appear in the catalogs, are not necessarily developed in-house. A lot of that stuff has historically been done by Advance, an advertising agency that has long held LEGO as one of their clients. Their LEGO Group division, known as "Rocket", has a strong working relationship with the LEGO Group designers, but they are not technically employees of the LEGO Group.

Really, anything that the LEGO Group puts their stamp of approval of is "official" for that respective theme unless they say otherwise. The world as depicted in the LEGO Movie is "canon" to that theme — but it might not be canon to the BIONICLE theme, or to the Fabuland theme, or to the Classic Space theme, regardless of whether those themes cameo in the sets.

This sort of obsession with "canon" is what inspired comic and TV writer Dwayne McDuffie to create his "Grand Unification Theory of Television". From his perspective, if a single crossover was ever enough to say with certainty that two franchises existed within the same universe, then in his words, "The last five minutes of St. Elsewhere is the only television show, ever. Everything else is a daydream." (for the uninformed, St. Elsewhere was a medical drama which crossed over with other franchises, themselves often crossover-prone, multiple times before ultimately concluding with the twist ending that the entire show and all its characters had been an autistic child's imagination).

Edited February 12, 2014 by Aanchir

[TalonCard]

And yes, I guess it is kind of Finn's fault that there are no Friends in the movie since I assume that he is not interested in playing with "girl Legos". Then again, Unikitty and her whole world are his creation too, so he must have at least a bit of a feminine side.

A deeply repressed feminine side, no doubt.

A side note about the relation of the LEGO Movie characters to the other LEGO worlds, Friends and Ninjago and what have you:

I think the thing that really sets The LEGO Movie apart isn't so much that there's a "real world" and that the LEGO characters can visit it and bring artifacts back. We knew that much going into the movie, and a similar sequence appeared in

from the official LEGO YouTube channel. Heck, the LEGO Maniac comics have presented the reverse scenario for years.

What's different about the LEGO Movie is that the story is tied to the real world in such a way that the LEGO sequences only make sense dramatically as a reflection of what we find out is going on in the "real world" late in the film. I flipped through the novelization before the movie came out, and I remember being disappointed at how easily Lord Business was defeated and redeemed. (I don't know if I missed the "real life" sequences weren't included or if I just missed them. If it's the former, the marketing people clearly know what they're doing.)

It's not to say that all of Finn's characters exist only in his head--we see Emmet struggle to overcome his own inanimate nature in the live action sequences. But it's very different from, say, the Jim Spaceborn comics or the ongoing Ninjago epic, where the characters and worlds exist completely independently of any "Man Upstairs" or the LEGO Maniac comics, where the Maniac never grows, changes, or learns anything during his interactions with the LEGO characters.

TC

[Lyichir]

What's different about the LEGO Movie is that the story is tied to the real world in such a way that the LEGO sequences only make sense dramatically as a reflection of what we find out is going on in the "real world" late in the film. I flipped through the novelization before the movie came out, and I remember being disappointed at how easily Lord Business was defeated and redeemed. (I don't know if I missed the "real life" sequences weren't included or if I just missed them. If it's the former, the marketing people clearly know what they're doing.)

It's the former.

Emmet literally lands in an empty room next to the Piece of Resistance when he falls out of the window. Then a portal immediately opens up above him and he returns to Bricksburg to save the day

I was surprised when I skimmed through it while waiting for the raffle winners to be announced at the Toys R Us event and found that the movie's big twist was omitted entirely. On the one hand, it's good that they didn't spoil it in the novelisation, especially since it came out a good deal before the actual movie. On the other hand, it removes a lot of the movie's punch and makes Emmet's return seem awfully contrived.

[Dorayaki]

To answer your question: No.

First of all, as it has been pointed out before, the story was not written by TLC, only approved by them, so it's the movie makers imagining what a kid might imagine the Lego universe is like rather than TLC telling a kid how to imagine it. And secondly, this is what the the whole movie is about: Lego's official canon versus Mocanon. The world depicted in the movie is Mocanon at its finest and the world that President Business is trying to force onto the minifigs is the rigid, organized idea of Lego's official canon. The moral of the story is to not adhere too much to the official canon and rather come up with your own worlds and stories (although following the instructions can be good too sometimes). So no, Finn's world is definitely not the official Lego world.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I did spot at least one Friends dolphin in the Cloud Cuckooland sequence, and we know that Heartlake City does exist in this world, even if it's only mentioned on a sign and not actually shown.

And yes, I guess it is kind of Finn's fault that there are no Friends in the movie since I assume that he is not interested in playing with "girl Legos". Then again, Unikitty and her whole world are his creation too, so he must have at least a bit of a feminine side.

Oh, I think you explanation works, agreed. But still as said, I think kids would wish to see, or just hear Emmet and Wyldstyle's news from other future official Lego story rather than just leaving them in the world of TLM.

For female characters or elements, I agree Unikitty is a thoughtful and creative addtion to the team (it could be that TLC wants to encourage consumers to focus on brickbuilt creatures rather than moulds). Rather than what I personally feel, I think it's more about the audience who play Friends, went to the movie, and felt dissapointed as result.

In a commercial view, it's not good to explain the whole movie story as "a view of typical boy", because it contradicts what the story wants to tell us. Unless there is going to be a Lego Friends Movie .

Well, very few stories are "written by TLG". Story-writing is not their business, and most of the writers for LEGO TV shows, books, and movies are not actual employees of The LEGO Group. The main exceptions I know of are Greg Farshtey, long-time editor in chief of the LEGO Club Magazine, who's written all sorts of books for some of the LEGO Group's most story-intensive themes, and Daniel Lipkowitz, who has also been involved in writing for themes like Knights' Kingdom II and designed several BIONICLE alternate and combination models.

Well, to a degree it's like the writers would like to see what the past Lego line had brought, but they still have to do their own work and it's impossible for each of them to notice every detail. The only rule could be that the same story can't contradict itself. TLM inherits the history and attributed in order to build a Lego world, but we don't know if the later stories would inherit plots from it.

I guess TLM didn't advertize Chima because it exists in a closed world. so maybe it means TLM did try not to violate.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Dorayaki