The position and future of Friends and minidolls in Lego?

[Dorayaki]

I know, I'm probably a bit off-topic with the following, but that was my initial thought seeing this:

To be frank, I have the same thought regarding LEGO's constraction themes, especially Bionicle (but Hero Factory as well). They are by now a very important part of LEGO, and they even got Mini-Figures, but nothing of that could be seen yet in the Movie.

So I would be sure glad if some Mini Dolls and robots at least show up in crowd scenes among the normal Mini Figs.

I really like this idea. So far, the male Mini-Dolls look rather dull to me, and something like a Manga-inspired theme could solve this, especially something like a Mecha series, where the focus of the action lies on the robots, not their pilots, so the limited articulation of the dolls wouldn't be a big disadvantage.

I'm myself a fan of the MegaBlocks figures for Halo, since they are very poseable despite their short size (to me, they are LEGO-compatible Action Figures), but I like the MiniFigs as well, simply because their simplistic yet versatile style has a charme of its own.

As result, unfortunately, no, they didn't.

I personally think Friends are more controversial than Bionicle and the action figures for that at least Friends is one of the System theme. But you're right, it's hard to put a real-sized Bionicle character but they do play a very different but important role in Lego's history. Since Metalbeard can join the main cast, I don't see why TLC can't add a Bionicle representive to defeat Lord Business, not to say a minifigure version.

For other different kinds of figures, Fabuland had a cameo appearance in the film. The others such as 4plus and Belville were not, but at least Friends can represent a voice for girls-oriented line if the others only exist in history. Duplo figures seem to be the "predecessor" to System minifigures, so I'm not sure they have to appear.

It depends on whether TLC see an action-themed story (original or licensed) that is able to target at girls. Even that there is Merida who is a fighting character introduced for the minidoll line, in the first wave we didn't see her having a fight scene set.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Aanchir]

As result, unfortunately, no, they didn't.

I personally think Friends are more controversial than Bionicle and the action figures for that at least Friends is one of the System theme. But you're right, it's hard to put a real-sized Bionicle character but they do play a very different but important role in Lego's history. Since Metalbeard can join the main cast, I don't see why TLC can't add a Bionicle representive to defeat Lord Business, not to say a minifigure version.

For other different kinds of figures, Fabuland had a cameo appearance in the film. The others such as 4plus and Belville were not, but at least Friends can represent a voice for girls-oriented line if the others only exist in history. Duplo figures seem to be the "predecessor" to System minifigures, so I'm not sure they have to appear.

It depends on whether TLC see an action-themed story (original or licensed) that is able to target at girls. Even that there is Merida who is a fighting character introduced for the minidoll line, in the first wave we didn't see her having a fight scene set.

Fabuland and BIONICLE did cameo in the film (albeit not in roles where they would interact with minifigures), but to an extent, so did Friends. There's a Heartlake City highway sign, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are other references I missed — after all, I probably never would have noticed the Blacktron Fan and Fabu-Fan minifigures if they weren't in a set and some of the trailers!

I think perhaps mention of Friends was avoided not due to controversy specifically, but rather due to complications it would present in storytelling. The LEGO Friends figures are very different from the minifigures who made up most of the film's character base. Not commenting on that difference would seem strange and might confuse some viewers who weren't familiar with LEGO Friends, but taking the time to comment on it could slow down the movie. So basically the same reason the BIONICLE universe and characters never played any role in the story.

In any case, it's hardly the only theme that was omitted from the theme, or even the only category — Technic and Mindstorms played no prominent role in the movie, at least beyond the Technic parts that made up part of the System constructions.

And yeah, I'd love to see a more action-oriented theme with minidolls. The LEGO Group has been trying to get a lot of mileage out of the LEGO Friends theme's success, sticking some adventurous content into that theme like the new jungle-inspired sets. But at some point I'd like them to introduce a second in-house girl-oriented theme (not a license) with a clear emphasis on action and adventure, and maybe even a bit of fantasy and magic.

[Wodanis]

In any case, it's hardly the only theme that was omitted from the theme, or even the only category — Technic and Mindstorms played no prominent role in the movie, at least beyond the Technic parts that made up part of the System constructions.

If you watch the movie again you will notice that on the map behind Lord Business in the conference room shows the various Lego worlds. One of those was Technic

[trippybrowneyes]

She LOVES Friends. She reenacts the few Friends episodes she's seen and creates hundreds of her own, real world stories. She still builds, but she builds with purpose - the Pet Shop became a Vet, and then when she needed an airport for one of her stories the Vet became an airport terminal. A lot of what she 'builds' is really decorating, covering everything in 1x1 round plates. It's kinda fascinating.

This just made me remember that when I was a kid, I wrote and typed up a play starring the minifigs from my Paradisa poolside paradise set. I would play Elton John's "The One" in the background because it had beach sounds in it. I loved my regular town sets, but I probably created more stories with my Paradisa set.

That said, I wish the Friends sets used regular minifigs.

[Dorayaki]

Fabuland and BIONICLE did cameo in the film (albeit not in roles where they would interact with minifigures), but to an extent, so did Friends. There's a Heartlake City highway sign, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are other references I missed — after all, I probably never would have noticed the Blacktron Fan and Fabu-Fan minifigures if they weren't in a set and some of the trailers!

I think perhaps mention of Friends was avoided not due to controversy specifically, but rather due to complications it would present in storytelling. The LEGO Friends figures are very different from the minifigures who made up most of the film's character base. Not commenting on that difference would seem strange and might confuse some viewers who weren't familiar with LEGO Friends, but taking the time to comment on it could slow down the movie. So basically the same reason the BIONICLE universe and characters never played any role in the story.

In any case, it's hardly the only theme that was omitted from the theme, or even the only category — Technic and Mindstorms played no prominent role in the movie, at least beyond the Technic parts that made up part of the System constructions.

And yeah, I'd love to see a more action-oriented theme with minidolls. The LEGO Group has been trying to get a lot of mileage out of the LEGO Friends theme's success, sticking some adventurous content into that theme like the new jungle-inspired sets. But at some point I'd like them to introduce a second in-house girl-oriented theme (not a license) with a clear emphasis on action and adventure, and maybe even a bit of fantasy and magic.

I disagree that because we know Friends minidolls were designated to be different from minifigures from the beginning, it's pretty clear. If they think they cannot market the design, they shouldn't have made it. Besides, I don't think audience recognize all themes that were referred in this movie. It's more important for the girls (who TLC want to target at) who are disappointed by the result.

Not to consider whether a minidoll character should be involved with the story, just according to what the story told, Friends could have at least participated by:

1) having a representive building master in the hall of fame.

2) having Lord Business control Heartlake City, as we can see the micromanagers are catching Olivia and her friends.

BTW, even though Fabu-Fan had no participation in this movie, it'd be strange if she dreams of Fabuland and it was actually there. Maybe the City have had communication with Fabuland until Lor Business comes. Same for the Blacktron-Fan.

I usually think Technic stands for "techniques" since it doesn't really feature characters and stories. There were Technic figures, but I can hardly believe TLC means that the Technique figures have established their own government So IMO, it can be involved in this story at the hands of the building masters: using Technic techniques to build supreme machines. If there is going to be TLM2, maybe it would be actually used. For Mindstorms, it can also be a giant robot built and designed by Lord Business to conquer the world, much like the Nintendo R.O.B. in Smash bros

.

I always think magical fantasy can be an element or subtheme of Castle series, for that Castle has been lacking participation of women, such as brave princesses, witches or female knights. But I'm not sure if TLC can make an independent middle-age fantasy minidoll theme now since they've associated with Disney franchise, though this issue have been discussed in many other licenses such as PotC v.s. Pirates.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Dorayaki

[ZORK64]

I disagree that because we know Friends minidolls were designated to be different from minifigures from the beginning, it's pretty clear. If they think they cannot market the design, they shouldn't have made it. Besides, I don't think audience recognize all themes that were referred in this movie. It's more important for the girls (who TLC want to target at) who are disappointed by the result.

I don't think that LEGO has doubts about marketing the Friends design just because it doesn't really show up in the LEGO Movie. I agree with Aanchir here. If they would've mixed and matched various kinds of figures, it might would be a bit confusing. Also, I'm pretty sure the directors want appeal to both kids and parents, who mostly grew up with LEGO's most well-known toy figure, and that is the Minifigure.

Not to consider whether a minidoll character should be involved with the story, just according to what the story told, Friends could have at least participated by:

1) having a representive building master in the hall of fame.

2) having Lord Business control Heartlake City, as we can see the micromanagers are catching Olivia and her friends.

I agree with point 1, that would have been cool, point 2 however...

...would have probably caused a much bigger outcry than their absence since it would have turned them into Damsells in Distress.

So IMO, it can be involved in this story at the hands of the building masters: using Technic techniques to build supreme machines. If there is going to be TLM2, maybe it would be actually used. For Mindstorms, it can also be a giant robot built and designed by Lord Business to conquer the world, much like the Nintendo R.O.B. in Smash bros

I don't see Mindstorms being necessarily evil, also, R.O.B. wasn't really evil in the Supspace Emissary of Super Smash Bros. Brawl either, as he and his folks were just simply enslaved by the actual big bad.

[Dorayaki]

I don't think that LEGO has doubts about marketing the Friends design just because it doesn't really show up in the LEGO Movie. If they would've mixed and matched various kinds of figures, it might would be a bit confusing. Also, I'm pretty sure the directors want appeal to both kids and parents, who mostly grew up with LEGO's most well-known toy figure, and that is the Minifigure.

So back to what the topic is, if TLC regard marketing as the most important, that only means minidolls shouldn't have been introduced since they wouldn't appeal to both kids and parents, contrary to what the interview said. I don't think the interview was completely wrong, but obviously there isn't a solution coming to for the issue.

There could be a possible sequel or other crossover media. I don't think the future of Lego media would success if using the same excuse. Another assumption is that the issue of "different figures" would be discussed in future crossovers, though it's not proven yet.

I agree with point 1, that would have been cool, point 2 however...

...would have probably caused a much bigger outcry than their absence since it would have turned them into Damsells in Distress.

Well, same for all non-protagonists in this story. I haven't heard about how DC fans reacts to this movie and the affairs, but I'm sure that the superheros are somewhat "weakened" for the need of plots. It's not about being typical damsels unless they have important roles without any action.

I don't see Mindstorms being necessarily evil, also, R.O.B. wasn't really evil in the Supspace Emissary of Super Smash Bros. Brawl either, as he and his folks were just simply enslaved by the actual big bad.

We may imagine that both R.O.B. and Mindstorm are in the same role as Good Cop, who must obey his boss no matter if he is bad or not.

[ZORK64]

Heh, I'll think I'll come back to this discussion once I've seen the Movie. It isn't released here in Germany yet.

[Dorayaki]

Lego is great because you can modify your sets and customize them. But I've not yet found the "bug" to invent it all myself. Of course not all girls love dolls and Lego friends, etc. Not all boys love cars and shooting things up either. (There are even boys who -gasp- don't like Legos.) But does that need to be said to be sure everyone is on the same page?

And one of the main things I DID with the minifigures as a kid? I incorporated them with my Barbie play as the little kids everyone took care of. I incorporated them with my Dollhouse play to have MANY more people to play with. I wrote up individual tiny sheets of paper on every minifigure -- giving each a name, a birthday, and some information about what they liked/didn't like to set them apart from each other. Which are all things that now happen in Friends, as well as being able to play in the sets with your dolls. I think my interest in Lego would not have waned as it did if I had a constant infusion of new playsets to build like this.

Lego is great because you can modify your sets and customize them. But I've not yet found the "bug" to invent it all myself.

Okay, I admit that saying was alittle aggresive. The point is we should consider Friends as a style that is different from City, but doesn't mean it has to stick to certain consumers.

Not to discuss fake brands, yes, it can be another topic: can we encourage children to play toys from different figures (Friends+Bionicle), different brands (Lego+MegaBloks), or even totally different kinds of toys like the situation Toy Story showed? Perhaps TLC have wanted to compete with Barbie wtth their Scala dolls at first. Then following the time line, from Belville to Friends, now they'd like to focus on own properties.

The controversy of Friends' position in Lego's line is its similarity with other existed System themes. It's not like its predecessor (Scala and Belville), which are more like dollhouse scenario, or Bionicle which use Technic as their major materials, regardless of that they all have different scales. Friends has the natural advantage to be combined and customized with any System set. But still, this fact is very hightlighted by TLC, which seems like waste and dismay to how much progress and effort the designers made.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Dorayaki]

I don't remember minifigs holding much sway for me, it was always the construction, the repeated disassembly and new creation that did it for me. However, once I moved away from the Basic bricks (and Town) and into themed sets, there was a bit more role play (I had Robin Hood and his merry men) but building really still rang my bell. This all changed of course, with Bellville. I only had two sets and I was overwhelmingly disappointed with the lack of any kind of building, but the highly poseable figures booted out my old fashioned wooden ones from their dollhouse - and they still live there, happily ever after.

I do agree though, that in general, girls aren't like me. They want the narrative, the reason behind the building. And my daughter is one of them. So completely unbelievable obsessed with pretend play! Like me she has been raised in a home without gender biases being reinforced, she opts to wear 'boys clothes' (dark blues, dinosaurs, red cars etc) and generally would be described as a tomboy.

But back to the topic of the minidoll, here we have an interesting study - currently (and not surprisingly) we have only female minidolls, and lots of male or generic minifigs. So minifigs became men (and old people!) and minidolls are women. I picked up a few more female figs that I thought would appeal to her (CMF older cat lady and scientist, ambulance driver and firefighter) but they've largely been discarded or used as 'grandma'. They really just don't appeal as much. Her favourite figure is a minifig, a male called 'Mike the big brother'. What I'm keen to know is, if she gets (somehow!) a male minidoll, would that replace the male minifig for her?

Good thought. I guess there are two major things decide whether girls/boys are interested in Lego products. One is the building abilities, the other is the theme concepts. Theme concepts can be easily controlled by designers. During the dark ages of TLC most themes except Belville were obviously targeted at boys only and no themes were neutral enough for girls. But when coming to building, girls naturally lack of some abilities and interests so they seldom treat brick houses with dissembling and creativity.

Belville was somewhat a pity. Not talking about the compatibility with other themes, its scale does resetict designs of building houses so they were unable to be as appealing as other regular sets.

I don't really care about visual signs since these can be regarded as a different building style / character personality. Spiritually, though Friends doesn't often focus on many real-life careers like City does (that means it doesn't introduce female firefighters and police, maybe only Vet Sophie counts), here are still many scenes show that girls acan be "daring" as boys, like the upcoming jungle adventures. The only pity could be that these are alittle overshadowed by the "real adventures" that TLC keep advertising -- which are the action themes and licensed stories.

There is still an increase of minifigure-loving girls as we can see. The controversy of minidolls themselves are more like whether they're marketed to be in an enclosed world rather than being put together with other themes. To the group of consumers whom Friends initially target at, they are not interested or encouraged to learn about other Lego products that doesn't have the minidolls or different stories.

[Aanchir]

Since the jungle adventure subtheme was revealed, I've been thinking a lot about what kinds of adventure stories might be possible within LEGO Friends, and what kinds of stories would be better for separate themes. Let me just go over some of my ideas:

• One fantastic Friends subtheme would be a mystery-solving subtheme like the Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys books, perhaps also taking inspiration from cartoons like Scooby-Doo. It's definitely possible to create spooky and suspenseful subject matter without things getting too grey and gritty. Colors like blues, greens, and purples could be used together with colors like Sand Yellow (Dark Tan) and Reddish Brown to really convey a sense of spookiness. This sort of subtheme would also allow you to incorporate action features like traps and secret passageways: A bookcase that swings open to reveal a secret room, a staircase that abruptly turns into a slide, a trap door underneath a doormat, or doors that open and shut by themselves.
  You might even be able to incorporate some "bad guy" characters into this sort of subtheme, though it's not completely essential. Animals like mice, black cats, crows, and owls can provide a sense of spooky atmosphere while still providing a sense of cuteness. Some of these could even be recolors of existing LEGO Friends animals.
  
• A mountain expedition subtheme for Friends would allow for all sorts of awesome subject matter. A cozy mountain lodge, a research station at the mountain peak, a sheer cliff with ledges for climbing, a hot air balloon, a camping area with a campfire and tents, or a cave occupied by bears. Animals could include bears, eagles, goats, etcetera. Snowshoes, sweaters, coats, and scarves would be the prevailing fashion choices in the upper parts of the mountains, while lower on the mountain characters could wear short-sleeved shirts and shorts decorated with expedition gear like climbing harnesses.
  
• There are two main categories that would need their own themes and could not really fit into the modern-day world of LEGO Friends: sci-fi and fantasy. Fantasy is a big one to capture, in my opinion. Disney Princess somewhat fills the historical fantasy quota, but it seems to be aimed at a slightly younger demographic than LEGO Friends, and its storytelling scenarios are not very adventurous. Fantasy franchises have the potential to be hugely popular with teens and tweens. Look at how much older girls have loved Harry Potter, The Twilight Saga, and toy lines like "My Little Pony Equestria Girls", "Monster High", and "Ever After High". Toy companies seem to be realizing that older girls want toys that are a little less everyday and run-of-the-mill than your typical Barbie doll. This is a market that I think the LEGO Group could easily cash in on with a well-written story theme.
  Sci-fi franchises are not so well proven among girls. The Hunger Games has caught on brilliantly with girls, and has helped inspire a love of archery among girls of all ages. Companies like Nerf have capitalized on this with their new "Nerf Rebelle" toyline. But you don't see a lot of companies capitalizing on the sci-fi category in girl-oriented toylines. And while this gives the LEGO Group a chance to break new ground, it also means that there are less successes and failures in the industry for them to learn from. Those there are, such as "She-Ra", are not recent enough for their lessons to be especially relevant to today's market.
  This is of course speaking of Western markets. Japan has a wealth of girl-oriented (shoujo) comics and cartoons that cover a number of genres, including sci-fi and fantasy. But shoujo media hasn't really caught on in the west to the same extent that franchises like Pokémon, bolstered by toy and video game tie-ins, have experienced. The last shoujo cartoon I've seen on a standard American cable network during a timeslot aimed at kids was probably Hamtaro, and before that, Cardcaptor Sakura. Sailor Moon was fairly popular in my early childhood (at least relative to other anime series), but there hasn't been a subsequent sci-fi shoujo series to gain such widespread appeal in Europe and the Americas to my knowledge.

[Sarah]

I think Lego would be better off NOT drawing a strict line between fantasy and Science fiction. The literature I can think of that appeals most to a wide base of teenage girls that is technically science fiction is not really in-your-face about its futuristic nature. (Pern, Hunger Games, Divergent. Maybe Matched -- another dystopia like Divergent)

Edited March 18, 2014 by Sarah

[lightningtiger]

A sci-fi version of Friend's might be possible after Cobi has the rights to Winx.

Pardon the posting of a Cobi image here folks.

They appear to be Friend's style but with wings.

If Lego was too take Friend's in uncharted waters......where ?

[fallentomato]

Dorayaki, thanks for commenting on my blog to bring this thread to my attention. I'm not the best at keeping up with EuroBricks, but I try to add my voice when I have something to add.

I was pretty irked that minidolls were not included in The LEGO Movie. Despite my complaints about the minidolls, LEGO has clearly committed to them, and they should have included at least one in the movie. It's absurd that after years of failing to create products that resonate with girls and finally having a smash success like LEGO Friends that they wouldn't include at least one minidoll in the movie as a Master Builder or significant background character to indicate that yes, the people who buy Friends products are just as much LEGO fans as all the other LEGO fans. By not including minidolls in any way LEGO is marking them as other/abnormal in opposition to the minifigure. It's stupid and insulting.

Worse than that, according to a couple sources Friends is briefly shown as one of the other themes "that we don't talk about" by Wyldstyle. On my third viewing I do think I noticed the tale-tell pastel palate of Friends flash very quickly on the scene, but I couldn't identify which set it was. One of the directors of the film makes a snippy comment about Friends at

in this behind-the-scenes video. So not only did they not include the minidolls, they made fun of them. Talk about twisting the knife.

From a technical standpoint I understand why they didn't include minidolls. They would have had to develop a whole different workflow to animate them. All the minifgures had animated faces that were essentially 2d images printed on a cylinder. Easy. Since minidolls have more contoured faces would the appropriate way to animate their faces be to have the face move realisticly like a human (as they do in the Friends CGI movies) but would that have looked weird alongside the 2d facial animation on the minifigures? The severely limited articulation of the minidoll would have also limited their involvement in the film.

It's quite possible they snuck a minidoll in somewhere in the background, but until I have the DVD and can go through frame by frame I won't know for sure

[badboytje88]

Have you guys ever considered that there are no friends figures in The LEGO movie because the little sister still plays with duplo? Father and son most likely aren't interested in the girl targeted products.

[fallentomato]

Have you guys ever considered that there are no friends figures in The LEGO movie because the little sister still plays with duplo? Father and son most likely aren't interested in the girl targeted products.

Yup. But that's like saying there are no LEGO Marvel characters in the movie because the dad is only a DC fan. The real reason Marvel figures wasn't included if that the film was produced by Warner Brothers (parent company of DC). Anything else is pure speculation

Any adult fan with a collection like the one in the film is likely to have at least some Friends sets if only for the parts variation. The minidoll probably would have gotten chucked into the big bin of random pieces that the dad lets Finn play (i.e. Cloud Cuckoo Land).

[Dorayaki]

Since the jungle adventure subtheme was revealed, I've been thinking a lot about what kinds of adventure stories might be possible within LEGO Friends, and what kinds of stories would be better for separate themes. Let me just go over some of my ideas:

> a mystery-solving subtheme like the Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys books

I would say that even though the girls can play a detective role, it needs a well-portrayed backstory to market and tell how all these things began ---- which means animated stories. Well, Friends only has one special episode last year like Hero Factory did. Hope that the Jungle series would also come with animated episodes. It's a little shame that the five leading heroines have much different personalities but they don't have many opportunities to show their talents (oh, for the very big example, TLM .)

> You might even be able to incorporate some "bad guy" characters into this sort of subtheme, though it's not completely essential.

It's interesting to have such kind of characters, though maybe Friends doesn't introduce such kind of scenario. If it could, the Jungle rescue series can also introduce some poachers who ask Olivia to hand over her polybag cubs.

> A mountain expedition subtheme for Friends would allow for all sorts of awesome subject matter.

Still depends on how much this subtheme can interest the targeted consumers. I guess ski resort can be very popular among all FOLs.

> There are two main categories that would need their own themes and could not really fit into the modern-day world of LEGO Friends: sci-fi and fantasy.

I always think these ideas could had been used in the traditional minifigure themes TLC ever had. For example, Castle themes seldom focus on magic or princesses even though they do introduce minifigures based on such roles. The witches/wizards are mostly additional to the military forces, and the princess's are simply damsels in distress. The late period of Belville heavily focused on princess's and fairy tales, but unfortunately it wasn't a success.

Well the current action themes are sort of the SF things, but both Chima and Nnjago heavily stress on male characters and their products don't target at girls, despite that there are female fans of these TV shows. I think Agent is one of the themes that can interest both girls and boys, maybe with some different scales of sets or adding minidolls version.

> "My Little Pony Equestria Girls", "Monster High", and "Ever After High".

Skipping the license problem, brick toys could have been a powerful addition to MLP, but it seems like that Hasbro has no interest to in bringing MLP to their own KRE-O line. Mattel just bought MB so we can wait and see how do they utilize this strength, but I guess they would just focus on Barbie series.

> The last shoujo cartoon I've seen on a standard American cable network during a timeslot aimed at kids was probably Hamtaro, and before that, Cardcaptor Sakura. Sailor Moon was fairly popular in my early childhood (at least relative to other anime series).

Well

Well currently the most popular girls-oriented longterm franchise in Japan is the Pretty Cure series (created by Toei, who made Sailor Moon series and now is the creator of PowerRanger/SuperSentai series). But Pretty Cure isn't an international broadcasting show, compared with Power Ranger which has American adaption and localized toy franchise (uh.... MegaBloks). Unfortunately as far as we know, there are very few popular girls-oriented TV shows or movies that have big impacts on the worldwide audience.

> Nerf have capitalized on this with their new "Nerf Rebelle"

How should Nerf Rebelle work:

Well compared with Lego's issues, I think Nerf Rebelle doesn't have problems in encouraging girls to join the fights.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Dorayaki]

From a technical standpoint I understand why they didn't include minidolls. They would have had to develop a whole different workflow to animate them. All the minifgures had animated faces that were essentially 2d images printed on a cylinder. Easy. Since minidolls have more contoured faces would the appropriate way to animate their faces be to have the face move realisticly like a human (as they do in the Friends CGI movies) but would that have looked weird alongside the 2d facial animation on the minifigures? The severely limited articulation of the minidoll would have also limited their involvement in the film.

It's quite possible they snuck a minidoll in somewhere in the background, but until I have the DVD and can go through frame by frame I won't know for sure

Very glad to see your reply. Well, I don't really think they did put any minidoll (according to what I saw in the theater) because they would be able to make it more obvious than just giving them a small cameo appearance.

I wouldn't say it must be a dishonor to Friends since it's not the only current theme to be neglected this time, it's more like that "the plot writers and TLC don't want to talk about this time". But still Friends has been controversial due to its initial purpose. I believe that TLC should be more sensitive to it, which means "neglection" is not allowed.

The minidoll CGI movement is a conservative answer, I agree. As discussed before the Friends cartoon episodes directly skip the physical problems with using real human. The recent video game version provided us minidoll movesets, but then again, the minifigures in TLM can't bend their legos like those minifigure video games do.

Generally, the CGI team created Unikitty and the non-minifig cast is there, so I believe that they're capable of making minidolls move.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Faefrost]

Dorayaki, thanks for commenting on my blog to bring this thread to my attention. I'm not the best at keeping up with EuroBricks, but I try to add my voice when I have something to add.

I was pretty irked that minidolls were not included in The LEGO Movie. Despite my complaints about the minidolls, LEGO has clearly committed to them, and they should have included at least one in the movie. It's absurd that after years of failing to create products that resonate with girls and finally having a smash success like LEGO Friends that they wouldn't include at least one minidoll in the movie as a Master Builder or significant background character to indicate that yes, the people who buy Friends products are just as much LEGO fans as all the other LEGO fans. By not including minidolls in any way LEGO is marking them as other/abnormal in opposition to the minifigure. It's stupid and insulting.

Worse than that, according to a couple sources Friends is briefly shown as one of the other themes "that we don't talk about" by Wyldstyle. On my third viewing I do think I noticed the tale-tell pastel palate of Friends flash very quickly on the scene, but I couldn't identify which set it was. One of the directors of the film makes a snippy comment about Friends at

in this behind-the-scenes video. So not only did they not include the minidolls, they made fun of them. Talk about twisting the knife.

From a technical standpoint I understand why they didn't include minidolls. They would have had to develop a whole different workflow to animate them. All the minifgures had animated faces that were essentially 2d images printed on a cylinder. Easy. Since minidolls have more contoured faces would the appropriate way to animate their faces be to have the face move realisticly like a human (as they do in the Friends CGI movies) but would that have looked weird alongside the 2d facial animation on the minifigures? The severely limited articulation of the minidoll would have also limited their involvement in the film.

It's quite possible they snuck a minidoll in somewhere in the background, but until I have the DVD and can go through frame by frame I won't know for sure

The root problem with the Friends Minidolls in the Lego Movie was their gross change in visual styles and proportions. Remember the Lego movie is presented to the viewer as a fully realized world, that just happens to be made of Lego, in much the same way that classic animated movies just happen to be pen and ink. The Lego is at least initially presented to the viewer as simply the medium through which the story is told. Much the same as animation claymation, etc. for anything animated consistency of art styling is subtle but critical. Little things can shatter the illusion, like a shift in tone or proportions. You can't mix classic Bugs Bunny style animation with Japanese anime unless you expect that contrast to be the gag that things are centered around. By mixing Minifigs and Minidolls in the movie they mess with the proportions and visual expectations. The result is instead of seeing a fully realized Lego world, the viewer instead immediately sees Toy Story. Where the medium and core gag becomes not a fully realized brick built world, but rather toys playing together.

It's a subtle thing. But those same visual and tonal discrepancies that lead Dorayaki to forever bemoan "what is the place of Friends in the overall conjoined Lego universe?" Over the toys themselves, absolutely magnify when put up on screen. The Friends Minidolls are probably among the worst of Lego's properties for this visual discrepancy, because any such things are magnified if the subjects are meant to represent or look like normal people. Bionacle could be passed off as a fantasy robot. It clashes a little, but doesn't shatter the illusion. Fabuland same thing. Funny head anthropomorphic fantasy, but the proportions are close enough that they eye might be fooled to some degree. Mil house shows up because while the head is wrong the proportions are still right and the visual lines are maintained. But stuff like the Minidolls, the Jack Stone figs or the old Technic figs shatter the illusion of the Minifigs as characters other than toys. The eye can't square them together.

It might be possible to use the Friends Minidolls in a future sequel, now that the full story of TLM has been told, but their presence would have destroyed much of the dramatic effect and big reveals of this movie.

Personally I think TLG made a few initial design missteps with their now wildly successful friends line. The concept of the more girl focused Minidolls is sound and understandable. I just wish they could have kept the height and relative proportions a bit closer to the system Minifigs. That would have allowed for a less jarring or less segregated feeling of play between Friends and System. If the accessories and items and figs were sized well for both.

[rollermonkey]

Just remember: These were the original minifigures:

TLG has come a long way since I used to play with these guys. I could definitely see a future where LEGO figure design meets somewhere between minifigs and minidolls, and I'd be OK with that, even if it means we'd need the thousandth iteration of Luke Skywalker.

[Laura Beinbrech]

I'd definitely like to see some more lines with minidolls as well. A fantasy line, like several have mentioned before would be perfect, IMO: You could have an evil witch, good adventurous girls (possibly something along the lines of a girl-friendly Heroica, maybe?) with the different heroine characters taking typical RPG party roles (healer, squishy wizard, tank, ranger, etc)... Especially if it means introducing a PROPER unicorn figure for the girls to ride.

I also wouldn't mind seeing an official LEGO Sailor Moon theme using minidolls, but I doubt that will ever happen.

[Dorayaki]

It's a subtle thing. But those same visual and tonal discrepancies that lead Dorayaki to forever bemoan "what is the place of Friends in the overall conjoined Lego universe?" Over the toys themselves, absolutely magnify when put up on screen. The Friends Minidolls are probably among the worst of Lego's properties for this visual discrepancy, because any such things are magnified if the subjects are meant to represent or look like normal people

Personally I think TLG made a few initial design missteps with their now wildly successful friends line. The concept of the more girl focused Minidolls is sound and understandable. I just wish they could have kept the height and relative proportions a bit closer to the system Minifigs. That would have allowed for a less jarring or less segregated feeling of play between Friends and System. If the accessories and items and figs were sized well for both.

Okay, I'm just keep moaning if you're not disturbed , though your last statement is fairly pertinent. Much like fallentomato said, it's not just a matter of "conjoined Lego universe" that FOLs (mostly adults) wish to see in this movie, but more important, a proof of achievement to the targeted market. I believe two years is enough time for most audience who have actually window-shopped in any toy store to become accustomed to its presence, which prevents them from being disturbed by "visual styles". If the minority of them haven't, advertising Lego products is also an important goal for TLM.

Now half audience could be the targeted girls or their parents. No matter whether TLC is trying to market the products or TLM movie tickets to them, now at least one of the two has obviously failed. As you say, a sequel can pull it out better, but only time can tell.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Dorayaki

[El Garfio]

Super Heroine LEGO Friends Minidolls

http://41.media.tumb...wcnxo1_1280.jpg

And in a galaxy far far away

Edited March 28, 2015 by El Garfio
Keep embedded images to a max. of 1024 x 768 pixels

[badboytje88]

Have you guys seen my most recent friends figbarf?

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=106474&hl=

[Dorayaki]

Super Heroine LEGO Friends Minidolls

And in a galaxy far far away

Have you guys seen my most recent friends figbarf?

Both are excellent works! Although I'm not sure these are related to this topic? If they are, yeah, we don't really see minidolls sail back to other existed LEGO themes where certain characters fit in minidoll form. Edited March 31, 2015 by Dorayaki