Fake CMF Series

[Faefrost]

I have some of those and they are defenaitly not the same, the printing is not that good, the quality of the plastic is more or less the same as magnet minifigures when they were at their worst. But the legs are different, the two pins Lego minifigure legs usually have are different, you can easely see the difference. So they don't come from the same asembly line, maybe the same factory. But you are correct, this is the risk of producing in China.

I have some of these knockoffs because they are funny. But I would never let my kid play with them, you never know which matherials they used, if the paint is toxic etc... You can easely spot them between your real minifigures, which makes your army look stupid.

Here you can easely see the pore quality:

Those are a great example of where it is easier for Disney / Lucasfilms to act than it is for Lego. Lego has to prove that the designs are exact copies of their products. They recently lost such a challenge against sen Bao I believe. Sen Bao had just enough design differences to skirt the laws. But the figs Bob shows are clear violations of the Star Wars trademark and intelectual property. Something that is a lot easier to enforce. Lego has the expectation that Lucas will protect its IP and the value of the license that Lego holds. They would complain to Disney, and Disney would go after the offending clones.

[Super Goblin]

I usually don't support bootlegs but those Green Lantern figs look great and I've lost all faith in Lego when it comes to Green Lantern. Where can that big set of lantern figs be bought at?

Edited January 1, 2014 by Super Goblin

[Lego Spy]

I'll be back in a few minutes I have to go and throw up.

But seriously, this is just wrong! I can definitely see some worry from TLG.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Lego Spy

[Faefrost]

I usually don't support bootlegs but those Green Lantern figs look great and I've lost all faith in Lego when it CDs to Green Lantern. Where can that big set of lantern figs be bought at?

I think they basically lifted a customizers artwork and designs and started selling them.

[Bobskink]

I think they basically lifted a customizers artwork and designs and started selling them.

So it seems:

There's an article about it here: http://www.brickheroes.com/2013/12/customs-contrefaits-ou-contrefacon-de-customs/ (in frensh)

I don't collect Lego Iron man, so I don't know that mush about them, but if I'm not mistaking some of these versions are not rip ofs from actual Lego designs.

[Faefrost]

So it seems:

There's an article about it here: http://www.brickhero...e-customs/��(in frensh)

I don't collect Lego Iron man, so I don't know that mush about them, but if I'm not mistaking some of these versions are not rip ofs from actual Lego designs.

Nope, they actually ripped off AFOL customizers who published their custom figs on the internet or sold them on ebay. It's like if they saw your 60's Duplo Batman figs and decided to just make them themselves.

[LegoPanda]

china , destroy it it is getting to far , it makes me sick

[Bobskink]

Nope, they actually ripped off AFOL customizers who published their custom figs on the internet or sold them on ebay. It's like if they saw your 60's Duplo Batman figs and decided to just make them themselves.

They should take it as a compliment, I would do so. I can't imagine that those customizers have any right to start complaining,

Edited January 2, 2014 by Bobskink

[Super Goblin]

So where can the S branded ones be purchased at? Not the Decool ones.

[Faefrost]

They should take it as a compliment, I would do so. I can't imagine that those customizers have any right to start complaining,

They have every right. Their work is still their work. Even if it is personal art of a licensed IP subject. And even if the customizes were selling their own art or were in violation of an IP, their work is still supposed to be protected from a third party coming in and stealing it for their profit.

[Super Goblin]

They have no right. That's like me stealing a painting then someone comes along and steals it from me. I file a police report that someone stole a stolen painting from me. I have no right because it wasn't my painting to start with. These customizers that are selling these figs of licensed characters are doing the same thing as these bootleggers. It's just more accepted because they are labeled customs.

[Faefrost]

They have no right. That's like me stealing a painting then someone comes along and steals it from me. I file a police report that someone stole a stolen painting from me. I have no right because it wasn't my painting to start with. These customizers that are selling these figs of licensed characters are doing the same thing as these bootleggers. It's just more accepted because they are labeled customs.

They have every right. This is well established law. A good example of which is "garage kit" manufacturers of resin cast plastic model kits. They will often make their own design of an IP subject, such as a Star Wars kit. The owner of that IP ( ie Lucas) can step in and demand that they not sell the kits. But that does not give anyone else the right to steal the designs or recast the kits. The IP prevents you from selling your version of the design for commercial purposes. But! And here's the important bit. Even if your art infringes on an IP, it is still your art and it remains protected as such. The fact that the subject of your art is that of an unlicensed IP does not in any way strip away your creators rights to your own unique designs. And someone cannot simply step in and use them for their own commercial purposes.

[Super Goblin]

Either way customizers and bootleggers are stealing from Lego and and the IP of Marvel, DC and whatever other property they are making figs of.

[Faefrost]

Either way customizers and bootleggers are stealing from Lego and and the IP of Marvel, DC and whatever other property they are making figs of.

There is a world of difference between customizers and bootleggers. Customizers are mostly selling their own handmade art. There is some flexibility for an artist to transfer ownership of a particular piece of art. Especially a custom request or commission. IP rules really are meant to deal with commercial production, not unique pieces. You could sculpt a really great unique Darth Vader statue. That in no way violates anyone IP. Once you grow bored with it you can sell that statue. No problem there, it is a personal work of art. It isn't until you start copying and producing it that it becomes an issue, or if it is being used to publicly display a licensed subject in an inappropriate, obscene or damaging manner that could be construed as damaging to the actual IP. (So a 17 foot tall bronze statue of Darth Vader pooping on George Lucas displayed a t a major intersection might draw some legal ire.)

[Super Goblin]

If I'm a customizer that made 200 Green Lantern minifigs and I place them on eBay one at a time, not posting a new one until the first sold it is just like a bootlegger making 10,000 non licensed Green Lantern minifigs and selling them. I'm not talking about somebody that makes a one off without selling it. The stolen designs on these bootlegs are from customs that are sold on eBay everyday. I have no sympathy for these customizers.

[Lordofdragonss]

Ok I found Ninjago Decool figures in Poland.

And of my, the figure plastic quality is indeed quite Chinish but weapons are magnificent- like from lego set, and the printing is clear and not grainy at all(it happens in many Lego prints nowadays).

[Dorayaki]

There is indeed a gray zone, but IMO as long as the customization creators have announced their own non-original works, they don't hurt or violate TLC's rule. For example, there are also custom Mr. Gold on Ebay but many of them don't pretend to be the real thing, not to say making original characters. Also, the minifigures are based on real materials but adding original parts or weapons.

For Decool and other copycats, they never make announcement and just pretend to be the original maker, and manufacture the fake toys as they wish. Their aim and measure are both different from customization.

[Bobskink]

It's indeed a gray zone. I sell customs aswell, but they are all unique, since they are handsculpted and painted. Don't get me wrong, I love what the customizers who reproduce their own designs do, but I think it's risky, that is why I only reproduce my own designer toys.

I'm sure Lego is aware of these "commercial" costums, but they are alowing it, since it's still creative in a way. I can understand the customizers are mad, but they really have no legal right to complain.

BTW, I think Darth Vader pooping on Lucas would be okay, it falls under the laws of parody, but maybe the other way around would be more accurate, there is a good South Park episode about this with, Lucas, Steven and Indiana.

[Faefrost]

With the customizes the only point of legality is if they are selling something based on a licensed IP or are attempting to use Lego's trademark. They typically use actual Lego figures and simply custom repaint them. There is no ethical or legal issue there so long as they aren't copying Lego or someone else's designs or using a specific IP. Lots of customizes sell soldiers and military customs. Those are perfectly legal in every way. It's just stuff like superheroes or directly or even closely copying Lego's designs that get into trouble.

[Bobskink]

that is correct, but so far the only bootlegs are based on IP's if I'm not mistaking.

[TheBrickHitHouse]

As a collector, the integrity of the second hand market for lego is very important to me - years ago I wouldn't have worried about knock-offs on ebay and bricklink (with the dreadful quality of the figures making them easy to spot) but now...those Iron Man figures look pretty authentic, I'd hate to ever acquire one believing I had the real thing.

The economic impact on Lego of this stuff is probably negligible - but some of these products may well contain lead paint and actually be very dangerous, it's not just a question of a wacky alternate Green Lantern designs and a bit of quirky fun - this stuff could actually harm the buyer.

[Faefrost]

that is correct, but so far the only bootlegs are based on IP's if I'm not mistaking.

Honestly we probably would rarely if ever notice the non IP bootlegs, save the really odd cloned city figs earlier in this thread.

it's not just a question of a wacky alternate Green Lantern designs and a bit of quirky fun - this stuff could actually harm the buyer.

Those actually aren't wacky alternative designs. They are all real DC comics licensed characters, separate from Green Lantern. (Red lantern = rage! Yellow = fear = Sinestro, Violet = creepy stalker love = Star Safire, etc). Amazingly wacky alternate designs would while tacky typically can skirt licensing. But straight up characters not so much.

[Bamos]

Unfortunately China does not have any copyright laws they can produce anything they want from Legos to I phones as long as it’s not used outside of China. Where the enforcement comes in is at customs any copyright material can be seized at customs and destroyed if in violation of U.S. copyright law. Which the Marvel minifigs are most certainly illegal in the U.S. it's doubtful they would be found by customs but if they were they would be destroyed.

Bill

Edited January 10, 2014 by Bamos

[Faefrost]

Unfortunately China does not have any copyright laws they can produce anything they want from Legos to I phones as long as it’s not used outside of China. Where the enforcement comes in is at customs any copyright material can be seized at customs and destroyed if in violation of U.S. copyright law. Which the Marvel minifigs are most certainly illegal in the U.S. it's doubtful they would be found by customs but if they were they would be destroyed.

Bill

My old bosses once got arrested by the FBI for importing bootleg "Go Bots" from China. After that they decided to take a different path and start making PC's.

[Bamos]

Ahh yes Bootleg Go Bots a Bootleg of a Transformers Bootleg.

Bill