Jim

Generic Contest Discussion

Contest Setup  

281 members have voted

  1. 2. Publish result list including...?

    • All contestants
    • All contestants with more than 10 votes
    • Top 10
    • Top 3
  2. 3. Preferred building period?

  3. 4. Preferred voting period?

  4. 5. Favorite voting scheme? (multiple answers allowed)

    • 20 points (distribute all, max 10 per entry)
    • 10 points (distribute all, max 5 per entry)
    • Old Formula One style (distribute 10, 6, 4, 3, 2 and 1 points)
    • New Formula One style (distribute 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 ,4, 2 and 1 points)
    • Eurovision Songfestival style (distribute 12, 10, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 points)
  5. 6. Public or private voting?

  6. 7. Should we allow digital entries?



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39 minutes ago, Seasider said:

 

@Jim tv programmes often use judge voting to thin the entrants and then the final decision is public

Yeah, let's try that next time.

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@Jim how do the other parts of the forum run competitions? I’ve never looked myself. Is there something we can learn from them in terms of voting?

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21 minutes ago, Seasider said:

@Jim how do the other parts of the forum run competitions? I’ve never looked myself. Is there something we can learn from them in terms of voting?

Nope, there isn't :laugh:

Having 20+ contests we are the forum that has the most experience. We have tried several things and we kinda know what works and what doesn't. Other forums have very simple voting schemes, because they generally have very few contestants. The last Star Wars contest had 8 entries.

2 hours ago, Lipko said:

Man, I was exactly thinking of Eurovision :classic: Finns always vote on the Hungarian contestant (sadly the opposite is not true).

:laugh:

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I'm also in favor of having a jury pre-selection and then popular vote to determine the winner. Though, with the sheer quality and breadth like the entrants on TC20, I wouldn't envy the jurors, who would have to select out extremely well made entries...

Also, somewhat extended jury would distribute the pressure of selection over more people, so that would be nice too, assuming suitable people can be found.

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16 minutes ago, howitzer said:

Also, somewhat extended jury would distribute the pressure of selection over more people, so that would be nice too, assuming suitable people can be found.

That can be an issue. But I can ask someone like mostlytechnic who doesn't participate in contests, but knows a thing or two about Technic :sweet:

On the other hand; I don't think the outcome will be much different if we add more jury voters. But we can try it, if that gives contestants a safer feeling. I know Milan and myself have the same taste, which could be beneficial for some entries and disadvantageous for others.

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Just now, Jim said:

That can be an issue. But I can ask someone like mostlytechnic who doesn't participate in contests, but knows a thing or two about Technic :sweet:

On the other hand; I don't think the outcome will be much different if we add more jury voters. But we can try it, if that gives contestants a safer feeling. I know Milan and myself have the same taste, which could be beneficial for some entries and disadvantageous for others.

:thumbup:

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Do we want the next contest to be hard or simple? :sweet:

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12 minutes ago, Jim said:

Do we want the next contest to be hard or simple? :sweet:

I don't know what to say about the Mindstorm theme, but how about the Control+ Contest? 1 hub, 4 motor limit.

Because we passed 3 year after control+ relesed but we didn't any contest about it.

Edited by msk6003

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11 minutes ago, Jim said:

Do we want the next contest to be hard or simple? :sweet:

The opposite to what you thought TC20 was 🤔

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13 minutes ago, Jim said:

Do we want the next contest to be hard or simple? :sweet:

Can we have a contest that is about something useful in the making of MOCs in general? Like for example actual useful small automatic gearboxes (the execution of the event would be hard though here to check it) or axles with virtual pivot etc?

And make it fixed size and add fries to it :)

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16 minutes ago, Jim said:

Do we want the next contest to be hard or simple? :sweet:

I would prefer a harder competition. But the topic of the contest is more important. Can you give some hints among what we choose?

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14 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

GBC

I am perfectly fine with a GBC contest, but I will not be the "captain" of that contest. Someone else needs to take charge/initiative. Of course I want to keep an eye out when the contest is running, but I won't be one hosting it and answering all the questions.

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1 hour ago, msk6003 said:

I don't know what to say about the Mindstorm theme, but how about the Control+ Contest? 1 hub, 4 motor limit.

Because we passed 3 year after control+ relesed but we didn't any contest about it.

If you were serious - I don't think there's much going for it, it's same stuff as PF, just new connector to screw people who have tons of PF motors :damn:. The only "new" feature is programmable stuff - and honestly that's Mindstorms territory, not Technic. 
Lastly, seeing as most contests are actually against electronics - the chances of even seeing something like that are even more slim. 

----------------------------------

How about a simple one? I'm on a strike with unfinished TC entries :laugh:

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I say we do a contest for large-scale (1:8+) scale models of real cars or trucks in LBG only, with a complete focus on interesting functionality and no consideration whatsoever given to such trivial things as reliability, appearance, and structural integrity. We should have big prizes too!

(Just kidding, of course, since that is probably the contest best suited to my build style possible!)

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18 hours ago, howitzer said:

presented as complete or almost complete models, with no WIP photos

I had problems getting them off my camera so I had like 3-4 posted before I was finished.

17 hours ago, Seasider said:

@howitzer yes quite a few people (not just in this competition) don’t actually post a WIP thread as such and instead make a thread at the last minute when their model is complete. I think some are worried about people stealing ideas. I like reading the WIP threads as it shows you someone’s thought process and construction techniques and I think helps all of us learn to be better builders. You also get people making a WIP thread with no progress just an idea! I’d like some form of requirement to actually show progress in this thread.

I think this time it was more to hide their techniques because there was some that sane as another entry. This way one doesn't claim the other "stole" their build.

13 hours ago, Touc4nx said:

I think that there's always going to have some "problems".

And one last thing too, concerning the WIP topic, as many have said, some finished project appear a few day before the deadline.
I feel that the presence of a WIP topic should be somehow mandatory. Because as I understand these contests, they are also here to make the forum live, so WIP threads allow for that.
But on the other hand, a WIP can be frustrating, if there little to no answers on it. This might lead some people to think that their model isn't good, and they might give up on it…
 

"Problems" will continue, but most of the time it's with the building requirements for the contest.

They have always stated "Must create a WIP topic", so we just need to enforce the "Progress" part.

13 hours ago, Dazzzy said:

I think I may fall into this category a bit, (with my entry in TC20 in particular).  In my defense I only had about just over a week to design, build and photograph my entry. So the lack of WIP pics suffered as a result.  And even then (whether you're working digitally or in real brick), it's sometimes hard (for me personally) to gauge when to take a progress pic, as my creativity comes on organically without warning sometimes. One moment I can be spending hours with no real progress to show, then the next moment I'm on a role and haven't even (digitally) saved the model I'm working on, (have actually lost work in the past due to not saving, only for my laptop to overheat and shutdown :wall:). 

It would be a pain for some people if they enforce "progress" in the WIP post as some, like you, want to enter but can only set aside a week or so to build. 

However, people could hard took pictures to add to there post as they took apart their build as they could still edit the WIP post while voting was going on.

8 hours ago, Jim said:

Do we want the next contest to be hard or simple? :sweet:

So was this one a medium?

8 hours ago, msk6003 said:

I don't know what to say about the Mindstorm theme, but how about the Control+ Contest? 1 hub, 4 motor limit.

Because we passed 3 year after control+ relesed but we didn't any contest about it.

Are you going to buy me Control+ parts for the contest? As haven't had the money for new sets or the parts to make the change from PF. It also seems like a lot of people on here haven't made the change over either.

 

 

One main problem that sticks out to me is there is "Pro Builders" and "Deep Wallet" builders that enter the contests. They have or can get the parts anytime in any amount when they need them. Other people like me try to make builds with lesser, cheaper, or more common parts and it can put us at a disadvantage sometimes. 

Edited by weavil
to add more text.

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1 hour ago, weavil said:

Are you going to buy me Control+ parts for the contest? As haven't had the money for new sets or the parts to make the change from PF. It also seems like a lot of people on here haven't made the change over either.

It's over 3 years after control+ released  like I said and there are 6 sets include C+ and two of set is pretty cheap compare to other.(42109 and 42114) And talk about money for buy new set or parts, how can you explane we did pneumatic contest TC10? Pneumatic is also not much cheap compared to normal parts.

7 hours ago, syclone said:

If you were serious - I don't think there's much going for it, it's same stuff as PF, just new connector to screw people who have tons of PF motors :damn:. The only "new" feature is programmable stuff - and honestly that's Mindstorms territory, not Technic.

Than what's different with Sbrick contest TC6? It's just smaller 4 port receiver with bluetooth. People can make simple remote control car using 42114 setup and profile or make program if they want. And I didn't want to hear that this is a mindstorm competition, so I put in 4 motors in rule suggestion. Not sensors. And this is not what I intended but people can use 'dumb' batterybox with 1~2 motor.

Edited by msk6003

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2 hours ago, msk6003 said:

It's over 3 years after control+ released  like I said and there are 6 sets include C+ and two of set is pretty cheap compare to other.(42109 and 42114) And talk about money for buy new set or parts, how can you explane we did pneumatic contest TC10? Pneumatic is also not much cheap compared to normal parts.

I didn't have the money for those two sets and I wasn't active in Lego during TC10 but just about everyone has some type of pneumatic stuff.

2 hours ago, msk6003 said:

Than what's different with Sbrick contest TC6? It's just smaller 4 port receiver with bluetooth. People can make simple remote control car using 42114 setup and profile or make program if they want. And I didn't want to hear that this is a mindstorm competition, so I put in 4 motors in rule suggestion. Not sensors. And this is not what I intended but people can use 'dumb' batterybox with 1~2 motor.

TC6 was sponsored by Sbrick I believe. The mention of Mindstorms for a contest has ruffled feathers many times before, because it was implied that "robotic" function would follow. Sbrick = money needed for adoption! Same as the other bluetooth box options. If did not mean sensors in connection to Mindstorm, then it would just a motorized contest build. 

 

This topic has been a shouting match at times over electronic usage in contests. Even if I had the money for 42109 and 42114, I would need to buy more motors or be limited to two functions in every build with it.

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12 hours ago, msk6003 said:

but how about the Control+ Contest? 1 hub, 4 motor limit.

What's the point to name ir Control+? used electronics won't change the real output, I suppose, but will limit contestant count for shure.

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49 minutes ago, weavil said:

If did not mean sensors in connection to Mindstorm, then it would just a motorized contest build. 

 

34 minutes ago, Jurss said:

What's the point to name ir Control+? used electronics won't change the real output, I suppose, but will limit contestant count for shure.

Ok. I intended want see entry like 6x6 volvo hauler 42114 or rumored spec of 42131 CAT D11T. Both use only motor not sensor and use transmission system working with motor's encoder function. And both set is listed in technic. Not mindstorm. As I remember right all C+ MOC in currently released is just simple rc. If not count alternative model of 42114.

Edited by msk6003

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I often end up buying parts I need for a TC build from bricklink. I think for TC20 this was the curved red panel and some red connectors, so not a huge amount. But like many others I don’t have any of the modern Control+ sets. If got PF and an Sbrick and none of the Control+ sets have interested me especially for the prices they are.

But for competitions I think Jim and Milan should continue what they’re doing with coming up with different themes was they’ve managed fantastically to do for 20 competitions.

myself I’d still like a “great egg race” type competition where you have to build a contraption to solve a problem. But that requires everyone to make a video to prove they solved it, which I know is not possible for all

Edited by Seasider

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As far as the jury debate goes, I think there should not be a jury in any future TC’s

better to have it before public voting if any like discussed but I see it as a mistrust in public voters. 

The 50post rule helps rule out any vote rigging so we as technic builders should not be ‘mistrusted’ to vote how we see fit. There are very experienced builders here to weigh in with their vote. an average of everyone’s colIective is democracy right? I  realise that maybe some entries regarding TC20 were not what organisers wanted/expected but if they still comply to the rules, no matter if they are off centre, then does that not provide interest? 

I still find the Jury comments About panels usage strange as there was another entry of the same model that had no panels and, well, unfortunately no votes either at the other end of the spectrum but same base model. So this example makes the jury comment and voting - ‘modus operandi’ opposite to All public voters.

now the Jury have a right to their own opinions but first place getter had panels in the build also where the original did not.

this is not criticism of the final outcome (we knew the voting rules and abide by them) but just a juries thought processes that are always going to be less broad than a mass of public voters.

so yeah to sum up, for a collective based forum I do not think there should be a minimal jury In the future.

 

 

Edited by MangaNOID

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Anything that requires a video is a hard one, as not everyone has proper recording equipment and video editing skills. I mean, I know that a smartphone is technically enough, but while you can produce a video with it, a proper camera produces much better picture, not to mention lights etc. Editing is another matter completely, as it requires some skill to get it right and even more if you want to do some effects, music, etc.

Of course with some types of models (GBC's etc.) a video is essential to show how it works (and that it works in the first place) but unless there's some kind of movement that's inherently important to the workings of the model, I'd say that video must not be mandatory. I feel that requiring video places too much emphasis on presentation rather than the model itself, so photos should be enough.

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@howitzer all my videos are just made with my iPhone (same as all my photos). You’ll notice I don’t have a studio as photos and videos are either on a desk or somewhere else around my house. I use Flickr for sharing photos and for my videos I use an app I got years ago called Splice to link and edit my video clips, it’s very simple to use which is great for my skill level!

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