SkaForHire

Book II - Kaliphlin: Guild sign-up and Discussion

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In order to facilitate good and fairly synchronized lore for upcoming Kaliphlin builds, I'd like to resurrect this thread.

Quoting below my response to the merged story lines of the top scoring Challenge V entries, would that be a reasonable addition to the canon? 
Which cities are still supporting Ulandus and the remnants of the High Council btw...?

Just now, Gideon said:

Great merge of the story lines! Regardless of who the leadership finally pick as the winner, I'd say that this is as good a wrap-up of Book II we will ever get and that I'd be happy to endorse this as the canon :classic:

A little bit confused there however regarding the events in Kaliphlin, since Barqa was fighting for the High Council in the civil war. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend so I am not surprised that the City Council of Barqa chaired by Lord Gideon voted to support the Desert King instead and turned their arms against their former High Council comrades supporting Raavage. To be honest, the High Council faction now seems to be simply a shadow of its former self when most of the major cities of Kaliphlin now are in control or under the influence of the Desert King. Supporting Raavage probably cost them the last remaining credibility as the rightful rulers of Kaliphlin....
It would also be completely in line with the character of Barqa's leadership to be pragmatic and switch sides to ensure that the trade along the ever so important artery through Historica, the Arkbri river, can flow unhindered again.

If we get a break between the anniversary challenge and the start of Book III, I should probably make a small MOC depicting the City Council of Barqa switching sides to the rightful ruler and Divine Pharaoh of Kaliphlin :classic:

 

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35 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Quoting below my response to the merged story lines of the top scoring Challenge V entries, would that be a reasonable addition to the canon? 

It's certainly fine with me.  It seems to me though that we could use an enthusiastic Book III team to make some clean clear-cut decisions for an official (brief) cannon going forward.  Until then, there's lots of lore but nothing really definite.

Any cities I am associated with are violently anti-DK. :laugh:  Really, I don't know what the status of that is, since Kaliphlin leadership has basically disappeared, so there's no one to act for the DK.  It always seemed to me like the proportion of DK supporters to anti-DKers in Kaliphlin itself was remarkably small, and so personally I think it would make sense for the DK to kind of just be slowly and insidiously replaced with basically a new High Council as outsiders become distracted with their own concerns and aren't available to prop him up any more.

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The Nestlands Clans opposed the Desert King, but they sent fighters against Ravaage. They fought mostly alongside Lord Vladivus' forces.

Ska has largely been absent, and it looks like much of his Lego focus has been BoBS. Me too, but I still show up here. GOH needs leaders who can give it their focus.

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As I'd understand it, at this moment the biggest part of Kaliphlin is ruled by the DK. Most of this is desert though, and there are lots of small enclaves and cities who are still opposing them. The lack of Kaliphlin support makes him unable to take these often rich and highly-populated areas. Since the HC has dissappeared, surrendered or been taken prisoner, so these small, resistant areas are almost self-governing, but their leaders could come together to form a new HC...

Is that a right interpretation of the current situation?

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I'm not sure about the mainland but the island of Gorr remains uncontrolled by the Desert King. Stone Town has an independent council, Samrd'dha is ruled by a sheikh that has close relations with the Aslanic Order, and Aden's Gate/Blackrock is directly controlled by the Aslanic Order. Inhabitants of Gorr are predominantly very strong opponents of the Desert King as they see the Desert King a threat to their current autonomy. It also seems that a lot of anti-DK inhabitants fleeing DK repercussions on mainland have begun to seek refuge on Gorr. However there still remains a strong HC rebel base that continues to operate on the mainland. This is also being strengthened by support from leaders of Gorr that are trying to stop the inflow of refugees from the mainland. 

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Also did any HC actually send support to Raavage? For that matter did any of Kaliphlin send any support to Raavage?

The Aslanic Order did not but merely used the DK’s military campaign in support of the resistance in Nocturnus as an opportunity to further weeken him in Kaliphlin.

Also the DK now has a further problem as it will be totally out of character for him to pledge allegiance to any newly revealed High King as that has been his aspiration all along.

To keep the story realistic, I think both the DK and the Aslanic order will end up seeking total independence from the High King while continuing to battle for dominance over Kaliphlin. I’m not sure where the other factions stand on this or if they have even thought of this.

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The Nestlands Clans attitude on this is both the Royal Seat and Desert King are far away, and we can govern ourselves well enough. The Desert King seems to leave them alone because of their difficult to reach position on the map. Ulandus tried and failed to control the Nestlands. (Because Ska mistook where on the map they are.)

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In the story of Historica United, there were troops from the High Council allied with Raavage and fighting for him, but it was not claimed that all HC-supporters were allied with him; also some HC-supporters fought alongside the DK's troops, not as friends but as "I hate/fear Raavage more than I hate the DK at this moment" allies. 

I look forward to seeing how Kaliphlin sorts itself out in the aftermath of all of this, since from the look of it the DK has very little homegrown support...

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22 minutes ago, Mike S said:

...

Also the DK now has a further problem as it will be totally out of character for him to pledge allegiance to any newly revealed High King as that has been his aspiration all along.

To keep the story realistic, I think both the DK and the Aslanic order will end up seeking total independence from the High King while continuing to battle for dominance over Kaliphlin. I’m not sure where the other factions stand on this or if they have even thought of this.

Indeed, it would seem very strange to me for the DK to have sworn fealty to the new High King. So I imagine the new High King rules Nocturnus, Mitgardia, Avalonia and has her/his capital in Cedrica, while the DK actually rules mainland Kaliphlin, though there are many cities, castles and counties that defy his rule (and which he is unable to take by force, due to the lack of real Kaliphlinite support) and are as good as independent.

How I'd envision the future of Kaliphlin: the lords of all these separate and enclaves come together to form a new High Council (or another form of governement, but that's up to them), and these leaders can then decide wether they will swear fealty to the High King or remain an indepent federation of autonome regions... (speaking IG here)

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Thanks for the updates! Seems like our beloved Kaliphlin is still fractured and although the open fighting seems to be sparse tension still brews. 

I will gather these accounts and also try to dig a bit in the history of the Civil War and compile a suggestion for a summary of the situation in Kaliphlin as a starting point for stories in Book III.

I think the future of Kaliphlin should be in the hands of the active members, and if we want to restore the creative freedom of the city-state like structure of Kaliphlin of old I think it should be the way to go.
Story-wise maybe the best way would be for the Desert King to remain the figurehead leader of Kaliphlin (since that faction won), at least for a while, but that his grip on the land is eroded by the traditional high degree of independence of the regions of Kaliphlin and weak central power. That would in turn be a good starting point to form a new council (suggestion for a new name to distinguish it from the old HC?) to be the de facto ruling body of Kaliphlin.

Historica's monarch's loss of influence over Kaliphlin during the vacancy, the position of the DK towards the new monarch and the position of other parts of Kaliphlin etc seems to me as a very good source of good story and build ideas for Book III :classic: 

 

On 2017-12-05 at 12:07 AM, Kai NRG said:

It seems to me though that we could use an enthusiastic Book III team to make some clean clear-cut decisions for an official (brief) cannon going forward.  Until then, there's lots of lore but nothing really definite.

I agree that a brief official canon is the best and preferrably be presented in the first post(s) of the Kaliphlin Book III thread. All other lore should then be seen as an account of the state of something, but not be mandatory to follow (since there are other versions too :classic:) so we can leave a lot of freedom for more or less accepted stories in the normal GoH way. Of course the major contributors of a certain part of Kaliphlin should have the final say in the canon for that place.

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3 hours ago, Gideon said:

Thanks for the updates! Seems like our beloved Kaliphlin is still fractured and although the open fighting seems to be sparse tension still brews. 

I will gather these accounts and also try to dig a bit in the history of the Civil War and compile a suggestion for a summary of the situation in Kaliphlin as a starting point for stories in Book III.

I think the future of Kaliphlin should be in the hands of the active members, and if we want to restore the creative freedom of the city-state like structure of Kaliphlin of old I think it should be the way to go.
Story-wise maybe the best way would be for the Desert King to remain the figurehead leader of Kaliphlin (since that faction won), at least for a while, but that his grip on the land is eroded by the traditional high degree of independence of the regions of Kaliphlin and weak central power. That would in turn be a good starting point to form a new council (suggestion for a new name to distinguish it from the old HC?) to be the de facto ruling body of Kaliphlin.

Historica's monarch's loss of influence over Kaliphlin during the vacancy, the position of the DK towards the new monarch and the position of other parts of Kaliphlin etc seems to me as a very good source of good story and build ideas for Book III :classic: 

 

I agree that a brief official canon is the best and preferrably be presented in the first post(s) of the Kaliphlin Book III thread. All other lore should then be seen as an account of the state of something, but not be mandatory to follow (since there are other versions too :classic:) so we can leave a lot of freedom for more or less accepted stories in the normal GoH way. Of course the major contributors of a certain part of Kaliphlin should have the final say in the canon for that place.

I'm no Kaliphlinite, so I don't have anything to say about this, but sounds like a good plan to me! :grin: 

Edited by TitusV

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2 hours ago, Gideon said:

Story-wise maybe the best way would be for the Desert King to remain the figurehead leader of Kaliphlin (since that faction won), at least for a while, but that his grip on the land is eroded by the traditional high degree of independence of the regions of Kaliphlin and weak central power. That would in turn be a good starting point to form a new council (suggestion for a new name to distinguish it from the old HC?) to be the de facto ruling body of Kaliphlin.

That sounds like a logical option.

Maybe just the Kaliphlin Council?

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11 hours ago, Gideon said:

(suggestion for a new name to distinguish it from the old HC?)

The Shadow Council? Seeing as they must hide in the shadows until the Desert King is returned to where he came from?

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Found some relevant official lore in the Ch IV wrap-up and one of the Ch V prologues, and did some cutting and pasting to condense it a bit. Also added some tentative lore from a relevant section of the merged Ch V leading entries. Some notes by the editor also [in brackets].
I think an even more condensed version of these texts would be an excellent base for an official canon, and then it is up to the leadership if they want to add something more or make some new changes for the transition to Book III. 

From wrap up of Challenge IV (https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/106417-book-ii-chal-iv-kaliphlin-civil-war-results-posted/&page=10, by Ska)
War is messy, and rarely there is a clear cut winner. We can see the same is here. The Desert King’s forces have shown prowess on the Battle Field, the legions of Ulandus have fought valiantly, and the High Council has scrambled to keep control of what it can. Like Nocturnus, Kaliphlin still boils over. As long as there is a Desert King and a separate High Council, it is unlikely that there will be true peace.

With First Centurion still banished to another plane of existence, the Isle of Gorr remains a holdout for Ulandus supporters. There is also a underground resistance on Ulandus proper. The High Council sits in the West, and with many of Nocturnus’ warriors heading home for their second Civil War in two years, the Desert King has lost most of his grip on the Wither Woods and beyond. Rumors of negotiation between what’s left of the Ulandians and the High Council still swell, but it is a well-known fact that during the active portion of the war the two sides could never come to an agreement.

The capital has sustained heavy damage, and the Desert King has kept his seat of power at Sultan’s Gate. For now it seems his forces are willing to let things stand as they are. He does not seem interested in gaining a navy to Assault Gorr or Esterbroke, or even marching back to the Witherwoods. This could prove fatal if his enemies can lick their wounds. But perhaps the Desert King knows something that the common man does not, perhaps he is sparing his enemies so he may unite them for a greater cause? There is much more chaos in this world than just Kaliphlin. Cedrica still does not have a King, and it seems that there is only one man powerful enough to take the throne in all of historica…

It is suspected that the alliance between the Desert King and the united rebel forces of Nocturnus will come to fruition, as he sets his troops against the Spire in the months to come.

The present state of Kaliphlin is in flux. It takes money, men, and will to wage a war; all of which have been spent over the last year. As fall turns to winter, the last of the very few farmers return to their much destroyed fields to bring in a possible harvest, and to avoid starvation throughout the Guild. Soldiers that have survived take temporary leave, as few armies are still standing during the lull. Mercenaries have moved on, many traveling east in hopes to find new sources of coin. The only occupied cities are those of Ulandus, where the DK's main regiments still hold his hated enemy's high seat. Matters of administration are shaky at best, as the West turns to a new Council, the East has mostly pledged to the Desert King, and Gorr keeps hope that First Centurion will return to liberate his lands. On Esterbroke, Petera MacLean has completed a cleansing of Desert King influence by killing all the traitors of the island and firmly asserting Council control of the island. Refugees of the middle-lands of the guild board GEAR ships and sail to the island, thus making it impossible for the Desert King to seed the island to his Avalonian allies. One thing is clear, Kaliphlin has changed, A clear leader has not emerged, and the Desert King's grip on the guild is tenuous at best. Can he become beloved? Will the First Centurion return? Will a High Council Member elevate to sovereign to reunite and rebuild the guild?
 

From intro to Challenge V (https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/144709-book-ii-challenge-v-prelude-the-desert-tournament/, by ZC)
The civil war in Kaliphlin had divided the free cities beyond anything they could have imagined. The Desert King promised amnesty to all who would fight with him against the Spire, but the supporters of the High Council and Ulandus had been slow to join the cause.
Amnesty was not a large enough carrot and threats were not a large enough stick in the post war Kaliphlin landscape to get even those loyal to the Desert King to bring their spears to aid the Darklanders.  The Desert King had promised Kaliphlin’s full support, but the promise seemed empty in the months that followed. Even if the factions weren’t with the Spire, Kalphlin had been weaken enough to deny the Desert King any sort of ability to assist the Nocturnian rebels. The civil war in Kaliphlin had split the loyalties of all, and despite his best efforts, the victorious Desert King couldn’t unit the people against the Spire.
The Spire has united the enemies of all the guilds. The Drow in Avalonia, the Algus in the North, and those who oppose the Desert King in the South.
[Remains of Ulandus & HC?]
Even if the Spire was not pulling the strings of Ulandus or the High Council, the free cities could never stand against a united force of Raavage, the Algus and Drow.
No matter what the Desert King [did], the people
[were] reluctant to join.
[The reason turned out to be the rumors of the King of Historica reappearing, which caused many of the undecided to rally behind the same cause as the Desert King, but not necessarily behind the Desert King himself]


From merged Challenge V entries (https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/156661-historica-united-re-released-special-extended-edition-with-titusv/, by HQ & TitusV)
Not all High Council troops had joined with the Spire, and many within Kaliphlin chose not to fight at all, as the scars of the civil war were still too fresh; but those patriots who desired peace and the return of the True King to Cedrica bared their blades and fought against those who wished for dissension. In the shifting sand dunes outside of the famed Shifting Oasis, the two armies met, and the High Council soldiers, and the occasional orc, were routed. It was the Barqan fire indeed that won the day, burning through the armor and flesh [of the adversaries]. Led by soldiers of the Desert King, Barqa, Katoren, and Khadira, the armies loyal to the cause of the True King [of Historica] rode off victorious.
 

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I am still here.  I kind of disagree with what has been said about leadership -- this is not BOBS, it has never been a leader heavy experience. Kaliphlin in particular has always been a free hand reign, where everyone adds to the story, with little major direction from the leader.

Mostly, I don't think there were any HC supporting ravage, so the last narrative just doesn't make much sense. Dugal for example was much more likely to sit it out, and kill DK patrols in Kaliphlin.

Since we don't have a definite time table for Book III,  I would not be opposed to a Challenge 2.5.1  --  The Great Settlement! 

Or a combined build narrative....

Or maybe we play round robin, start with three story threads, each player has two weeks to build, passes to another player, they have two weeks to build and add to the story, we go five or 6 rounds until we have told out the whole of Kaliphlin's peace settlement.

What I do not want to do again is a war game hahaha.  

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I am finally getting back to my sig-fig's story. It will be told as if it had happened months ago. I finally have a build that I don't think will get destroyed, or need to be stripped from for parts. The story of the Armored Eagle Goddess' return will be told.

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7 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

Mostly, I don't think there were any HC supporting ravage, so the last narrative just doesn't make much sense. Dugal for example was much more likely to sit it out, and kill DK patrols in Kaliphlin.

Well, maybe it does not make sense, but I wrote that since it seemed to be implied in what ZC's prologue said, quoted here by Gideon:

14 hours ago, Gideon said:

The Spire has united the enemies of all the guilds. The Drow in Avalonia, the Algus in the North, and those who oppose the Desert King in the South. [Remains of Ulandus & HC?]
Even if the Spire was not pulling the strings of Ulandus or the High Council, the free cities could never stand against a united force of Raavage, the Algus and Drow.

It need not be specified who had sided with Raavage, just that some had, as a way of trying to fight the DK (because, perhaps, they felt that the only one strong enough to take out the DK was Raavage, or that Raavage was preferable to the DK to them, maybe due to promised wealth or prestige). 

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Wow, that's a great wrap-up Gideon! :thumbup: 

And seems like Ska's still alive, hurray! Some cool ideas in there too!

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8 hours ago, SkaForHire said:

I am still here.  I kind of disagree with what has been said about leadership -- this is not BOBS, it has never been a leader heavy experience. Kaliphlin in particular has always been a free hand reign, where everyone adds to the story, with little major direction from the leader.

I don't think this needs to be leader heavy, just a one-time "this is where Historica is now."  Well, not quite one-time, because it'll probably need doing again in another three years, but you know. :wink:  Particularly with where Kaliphlin is now (all over the place) if any stability is to be introduced into its government that will need official sanction.

 

It does seem like it would mostly have been rogue HC and Ulandus supporting Raavage; in fact I think Kaliphlin had little actual involvement in the challenge.  Probably no need to go extremely into depth with that, because from the average Kaliphlinian's point of view, it's just a bit of fighting "over there" and there are more pressing things to think about back home.

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IF we need a firm conclusion, that can happen.  I can come up with a real challenge that puts the future of Kaliphlin in firm hands.  I think there is a consensus that most of the actual members of Kaliphlin are against the DK being the actual ruler?  In fact, when we did our challenge, I really thought that the DK would be the afterthought and it would be the First Centurion in this position right now... lol.

 

Anybody who wants to do some story builds for the new challenge, please let me know.  Let's make this happen.

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29 minutes ago, SkaForHire said:

IF we need a firm conclusion, that can happen.  I can come up with a real challenge that puts the future of Kaliphlin in firm hands.  I think there is a consensus that most of the actual members of Kaliphlin are against the DK being the actual ruler?  In fact, when we did our challenge, I really thought that the DK would be the afterthought and it would be the First Centurion in this position right now... lol.

 

Anybody who wants to do some story builds for the new challenge, please let me know.  Let's make this happen.

I think the timing and over abundance of potential builds created an imbalance in Kaliphlin’s civil war. The only reason why the DK won is because of Nocturnus builders who seemed to have plenty of time and bricks on there hands at that time while Kaliphlin builders seemed to have either little building time or limited access to their bricks which has progressively gotten worse for me. Like Gideon I’m in the process of a lengthy move howbeit with a bit longer timeframe as I’m building our house myself on undeveloped land which I just purchased.

As far as the DK, I actually don’t mind him being the official power of Kaliphlin as it does create a natural conflict for my characters. I’m fine with Book 3 having Kaliphlin still in civil war and am personally in no hurry to come to any conclusion as I’m not in any position to be doing any major Lego building any time soon.

Also I think it would perfect if the DK eventually got banished to Nocturnus where he should be welcomed with open arms...:laugh:

Edited by Mike S

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5 hours ago, gedren_y said:

We Kaliphlin of the east might take issue with the 'over there' sentiment.

No, no, I meant the other "over there". :laugh:   After all I'm a representative of Qarkyr myself, though I'm sure I don't remember what I did to deserve that or what I do to keep it...

1 hour ago, SkaForHire said:

IF we need a firm conclusion, that can happen.  I can come up with a real challenge that puts the future of Kaliphlin in firm hands.  I think there is a consensus that most of the actual members of Kaliphlin are against the DK being the actual ruler?  In fact, when we did our challenge, I really thought that the DK would be the afterthought and it would be the First Centurion in this position right now... lol.

I agree with Mike S that there's no big hurry, but I would like to see us heading that direction.  The last few months Kaliphlin has gotten politically nowhere, it would be nice to see some build-related efforts to create stability.

Edited by Kai NRG

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