Results from the quarterly survey time April 2013

[CopMike]

From TLG:

Dear LEGO Fan community,

In April 2013, we ran an installation of our quarterly LEGO Fan Survey, and we would like to share the results with you.

Over 5,000 LEGO fans over the age of 13 participated from Afghanistan to Venezuela and nearly everywhere in between. This time, we provided the survey in multiple languages instead of just in English, and the overall base of responses grew as did participation from Asia (18% in this survey compared with 5% in the first quarter of 2012) and Central Europe (15% in this survey compared with 9% in the first quarter of 2012). Teens (13-18) represented 13% of survey takers, and the largest two groups of adult fans participating included those from 25-34 and 35-44. This time, women represented less than 8% of survey takers – women skew older than men and are more likely to be from North America, to talk to a LEGO employee, or to post photos or videos of their MOCs online than men.

From the survey, we’ve learned that there are strong regional differences. First, there are differences in how you perceive the value you get for the LEGO products you’ve purchased compared with the price you paid – Eastern Europeans and North Americans received the highest value; Australians, New Zealanders, and Western Europeans, the lowest. Also, Americans are spending the most on LEGO products, both for themselves and others.

In general, fans outside of Northern, Central, and Southern Europe don’t feel they’ve had good opportunities to participate in events with other LEGO fans, fans in Eastern and Western Europe especially feel this way. Fans in Central Europe, it seems, have found their LEGO hobby more inspiring than usual over the past three months than fans in all other regions.

Despite the differences, there are some similarities as well: fans across the globe feel that the LEGO fan community is strong, and they are recognized for their knowledge of LEGO products by fans and non-fans alike. Participation in the fan community, by commenting about LEGO ‘stuff’ online or having conversations about LEGO in person, is universally high, though strongest in Northern Europe. Posting photos or videos of MOCs is done by just over a third of fans but by more than half in Southern Europe. Similarly, attending a LUG gathering is an activity only a quarter of fans have done in the past three months, but 42% in Southern Europe have.

Finally, we learned that familiarity with the LEGO Community Engagement and Events team could be higher. Fans that are aware of our team seem to have a more positive perception of the value of LEGO products and participate more in events than fans who are unfamiliar. We anticipate that the many activities we have with newer LUGs will help drive up knowledge of our team.

Thank you to those of you who participated in the survey for allowing us the opportunity to improve. We look forward to your responses in the next survey and to your continued engagement and participation in the community.

With kind regards,

Yun Mi Antorini, Community Strategist

on behalf of the CEE team

[The JMC]

So LEGO is aware that they rip off us Western Europeans and what is going to change?

[Fuppylodders]

So LEGO is aware that they rip off us Western Europeans and what is going to change?

Nothing.

[Commander Turtle]

I was most shocked when I saw the Minecraft set listed at $35/€35/£35. So I didn't buy the set. That behaviour from TLG has to stop.

[BrickG]

More complaints about price issues tied to economics in ways the complainers for the most part don't understand. :/

[Maxim I]

I know the high prieces in Belgium and (especially) the Netherlands in not official shops has something to do with monopolies.

But even in the Official Online Legostore, they sometimes rip us off.

Not that long ago, there was a LOTR set (the one with those wolves) that was 10€ more in Belgium than in it's neighbouring countries (all of them have the same currency as Belgium). When comparing to the USA, it was even 30€ more expensive...

[dandexter]

Try living in Australia, everything is crazy expensive here. Even stuff we make here is cheaper for the people buying it overseas.

Edited June 5, 2013 by dandexter

[Wolvarie]

Rest of the world subsidizing the US....nah that can't be right.

[fred67]

I need to repeat this - I'm not going to comment about higher prices in Europe or the rest of the world outside the U.S., but nobody is subsidizing anybody - TLG makes a profit in the U.S., if they didn't, they wouldn't sell here. It's just that simple. That they may make a higher profit margin elsewhere doesn't mean those countries are "subsidizing" the U.S..

Nobody is happy about LEGO prices, but don't blame Americans for buying more than anyone else. It says so, right in the note in the first post.

I realize there was a LEGO rep who used the term "subsidize" when referring to European prices over U.S., but he used the term incorrectly. If LEGO had to pick a single country to sell LEGO in, which do you think it would be? If you say anything other than the one they sell the most in, you're delusional.

Edited June 5, 2013 by fred67

[Faefrost]

Rest of the world subsidizing the US....nah that can't be right.

Possibilities

A. Lego hates you and expresses that hatred via higher pricing

B. actual economics, the combined forces of currency, local demand, fixed costs of doing business, taxes tariffs and governmental policies all combine to make the costs of doing business higher in your locality, and this is then reflected in higher pricing to the consumer.

Oh and just to add some flavor to the pot. Pretty much every country that Lego sells directly into is a member of the WTO. As such TLG cannot use the profits in one region to subsidize or drop bellow fair market value the pricing in another. They can't subsidize US prices from German sales. They can't subsidize Australian prices from US sales. The different regions have their own internal accounting and pricing.

[merman]

Do you also pay tax if you order at the American S@H? I know you pay tax when you are in, like, NYC and that tax is not included in the set prices listed. But what do you pay when you order online?

[Faefrost]

Do you also pay tax if you order at the American S@H? I know you pay tax when you are in, like, NYC and that tax is not included in the set prices listed. But what do you pay when you order online?

There is no national sales tax in the US. Up until last month online merchants were only required to collect sales taxes for states and localities that they had a physical presence in. So if amazon had a warehouse in NYC they would have to apply the sales tax to NYC customers, but not to South Carolina ones. The US Congress just passed a law to change that and force online merchants to collect sales taxes for all states, but there remains some doubt as to whether such a law will pass court challenge. Prior court decisions seem to indicate that the court might find the extension of a states power to compel another states merchants to collect their taxes to be a gross violation of the commerce clause. Which is really supposed to prevent just that.

Published pricing in the US does not reflect sales taxes. Those are added in at checkout. Sales tax will carry wildly by state or municipality (with NYC being the highest.)

Edited June 5, 2013 by Faefrost

[merman]

So a $200 set would be $200 on S@H and let's say $216.75 in NYC (isn't the tax rate 8.375% or something)? Insane!

Wow here in Holland we pay 21% tax! Always!

Edited June 5, 2013 by merman

[fred67]

So a $200 set would be $200 on S@H and let's say $216.75 in NYC (isn't the tax rate 8.375% or something)? Insane!

Wow here in Holland we pay 21% tax! Always!

At this point, the majority of the population in the U.S. is covered by a LEGO Store. What I mean is, the vast majority of us have a LEGO presence in our states, which means we certainly have been paying taxes all this time. So a New Yorker pays the same whether they buy it online or at a physical store. I live in GA, and I pay the same whether I buy online or in the store. The only difference between buying online or at the store is shipping.

[Faefrost]

. I live in GA, and I pay the same whether I buy online or in the store. The only difference between buying online or at the store is shipping.

Not entirely true. GA has no state sales tax. It is all by county, city or town or in a few cases regional (Marta taxes). And it varies throughout the State. If you buy from the Sugarloaf store it is 6%. Alpharetta is 7%. Phipps Plaza is 7% + an extra 1% City of Atlanta. In theory S@H might have to charge you if you lived within the tax area of one of those three stores. But in practice no online merchant goes to the local level like that.

(Not trying to be a know it all. I just live in GA like you, and worked out where Lego is cheapest.)

[fred67]

You're right, of course. The point being that few people escape taxes since LEGO has a presence that covers most of the population. I say it that way because, of course, many states don't have LEGO stores - but they have smaller populations, too. Actually, I don't know anymore - I haven't kept up with new store openings. Bottom line, though, is most Americans pay tax when the order it online.

[joopsta]

10240 in Lego Germany webshop 200 euros, in the Netherlands 230 euros.

How about that. I really wanted the 10240 set, but when I saw they raised the price

for us dutchmen by 30 euros compared to Germany, I decided to skip this one.

And I really would like to know the reason for that big difference.

Edited June 5, 2013 by joopsta

[merman]

10240 in Lego Germany webshop 200 euros, in the Netherlands 230 euros.

How about that. I really wanted the 10240 set, but when I saw they raised the price

for us dutchmen by 30 euros compared to Germany, I decided to skip this one.

And I really would like to know the reason for that big difference.

I have e-mailed TLG many times about this and I always get the same excuse. In Germany there is more competition from Playmobil so they can't afford the high prices. Still, the 2% tax difference between Germany and Holland does not justify a 10-15% price difference. As long as we Lego devotees keep on buying a 2,000 piece set like Ewok Village for €250 (or in the Dutch case €260) Lego can ask any price they want...

Still, it is SO unfair for two adjacent countries and a European market. There is no excuse for that...

Petition time? Or just keep on e-mailing TLG and keep getting the same (sorry but lame) excuse...

Edited June 5, 2013 by merman

[Faefrost]

10240 in Lego Germany webshop 200 euros, in the Netherlands 230 euros.

How about that. I really wanted the 10240 set, but when I saw they raised the price

for us dutchmen by 30 euros compared to Germany, I decided to skip this one.

And I really would like to know the reason for that big difference.

What does the shared border have to do with pricing? Germany is Lego's largest single worldwide customer by size and population. Just simple rules of economics from that should be reducingprices to German customers. They get more individual sales for the same flat fixed costs. And what are the fixed costs for Germany vs those for Holland? What are the comparative fuel costs? Real estate costs? Labor costs? Costs of credit for a given supply chain? Hidden or pass through taxes?

The problem isn't that German prices are lower than other European nations. If anything there should be a greater disparity. Germany's pricing should be much closer to US pricing just from looking at sales volumes. The fact that its not is more likely an indication that German sales are being used to buffer the rest of the Euro zone. What's the old saying "Germany is too small for a continent and too big for Europe"? The pricing is just an outward manifestation of that same effect.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Faefrost

[Deathleech]

Possibilities

A. Lego hates you and expresses that hatred via higher pricing

B. actual economics, the combined forces of currency, local demand, fixed costs of doing business, taxes tariffs and governmental policies all combine to make the costs of doing business higher in your locality, and this is then reflected in higher pricing to the consumer.

Oh oh, it has to be A! Everone KNOWS Lego is a petty, bias company that favors the U.S. with lower prices and gouges the rest of the world because they hate them! /sarcasm

Seriously though, there are perfectly logical reasons Lego has lower prices in certain areas. Ever shop at Costco or Sams Club? Some of the same principles apply. These stores sell bulk quantities of product at cheaper prices, but they make up for selling it cheaper with the sheer volume they sell all at once. Look at the U.S. population compared to other countries and you will start to see a correlation (plus the U.S. is known for its consumerism).

I understand it can be frustrating for people who have to pay much higher prices for product than elsewhere, but bringing it up and complaining about it every chance is a bit tiring for everyone else. Literally every time I see the price of a Lego set announced its followed by complaining how cheap it is in the U.S. compared to soandso.

[Alternator]

It would appear that Lego has acknowledged that there may be a pricing issue with their product in some regions; hopefully it will result in price changes, maybe it won't.

But none the less this is a positive thing!

[Bamos]

All of the LEGO stores around me are in shopping malls. so we pay a 10.25% mall tax.

Bill

Edited June 6, 2013 by Bamos

[Wolvarie]

Sorry guys the US subsidize remark was out of line.

And I hate to keep harping on price, I know there are factors such as roughly 15 times more people in the US than AU and I don't blame them for buying Lego as much as you can...I know I would be.

You guys in the US have what I call a LEGO dream, all the sets, cheap prices, big discounts, competitors fighting to sell stock in a depressed economy, Lego themed stores, pick a brick, the list goes on and while I am jealous its what it is, but that shouldn't stop others around the world wanting some of the same action. Lego on average is 20 to 50% dearer and on the bigger sets it can stretch to $80 to over $100 difference in price here locally.

A lot of Lego lovers and shoppers in general downunder have with the high Aussie dollar against the US dollar had a real eye opener to just how much we get gouged on any goods brought into the country...Treasure Island global companies call Australia. That is changing as many like myself have taken our business online and bought directly from the US. This doesn't help our local businesses either and many are hard up against it.

A simplistic view to back up my arguement is to go onto the LEGO shop at home site and switch between countries to see the price differences.

Just did a quick price match with 10240 Red 5 X-wing...199.99 USD 169.99 BPS (UK) 199.99 EU and 279.99 AUD. Interestingly when you convert between the currencies the UK pound, Euro and the AUD come out evenly. When you do the same with the US the price of Red 5 should be $265.78. I know you can say tax has to be added, but $66 dollars more?

Now I've done this with many sets over the years and the results are pretty consistent. On bigger sets the US will get at least a $50 better price per set than most regions of the world. Reason why the US buys more...its cheaper. I would buy more big sets if they were $50 cheaper. I would buy more multiples of smaller sets if they were cheaper as well.

I would love to support my local stores as my kids will probably be looking for a part time job in them in the coming years, but as a lover of Lego I would like to buy as much as I can for my hard earned LEGO hobby dollars I save each month and that means buying overseas.

People complain about the price because they would love to buy as much LEGO as their budget allows and following the AFOL movement online it gets pretty damn frustrating seeing the deals on offer.

I have a network of parents I know buy LEGO for their kids and are always amazed and a bit sick in the guts when I show them sites such as Bricklink and see how much they are being ripped off locally. The LEGO group is putting out awesome sets all the time and kids see that and want them...parents love their kids and buy the sets at much higher prices. I show them how to get it cheaper and they stop buying locally.

Its a global community now with the net and consumers aren't going to stand for multinational companies charging wildly different prices in Western economies, they will go and buy it where they can keep more of their hard earned for themselves.

Feel free to swing away and poke holes in my claims and you can say that shipping costs all the way across the world adds to the price, but not 20-50% more. Lego say they might do something about this topic, but I and many others around the world don't hold much hope of it changing anytime soon.

I hereby swear I will say no more on price on these forums or on any other forum and will grind my teeth silently, behind my smile and continue to buy online.

[daoudbazaar]

What does the shared border have to do with pricing? Germany is Lego's largest single worldwide customer by size and population. Just simple rules of economics from that should be reducing prices to German customers. They get more individual sales for the same flat fixed costs. And what are the fixed costs for Germany vs those for Holland? What are the comparative fuel costs? Real estate costs? Labor costs? Costs of credit for a given supply chain? Hidden or pass through taxes?

Hope you are kidding ?

If I were you, I you would start a petition to get prices on the Official Online Legostore up to 30% higher for people, say, from Montana (compared with prices for those from New Jersey).

Those difference between states you listed above are as high in the US as in the European Union.

That would be great fun ... as for us in this old Europe.

I don't think Lego prices have a lot to do with costs.

Those box I once ordered on Legoshop where produced in China, Hungary, etc.. (sometimes Denmark, probably the price sticker) shipped to a big warehouse somewhere among the Vikings and then delivered by a Romanian driver in a Polish truck.

I don't think cost's would have been different if he (the romanian driver) had to deliver in Germany (just turn left instead of right on the Rhine river highway).

I think It's more a question of competition (Lego and Playmobil new themes - even colors used - are the same at same time, even the same rotten ideas) and consumer ability to pay more or (un)ability to compare prices.

What a stupid consumer strategy !

I live in France, in the east, the country that we called "of the three borders" (Belgium, Luxemburg, and Germany).

And there, it's worth taking you car to go shopping accross the border, not only for beers (go to Germany for long-drink beers, to Belgium for strong flavored ones, to France if you want to spend a lot for chemical ones and then leave what you haven't spent on an bank account in Luxemburg to avoid most of European taxes - I'm joking).

It is worth also for Lego, as long as you intend to buy a big set.

[i could there also speak about anticipated and limited series, themes that are not issued in a country, etc...]

Not so long after Lego gave up wood for ABS, those guys from North America brought us the Internet as researcher from CERN invented the Web.

So now it much more easier.

It takes no longer than a couple of minute to find the desired set up to 30% less, shipping fee included (more and more cheap within western Europe).

And even for smaller set, you may sometimes take part in a "bulk" order.

The fact is marketers only achieved to destroy the value of Lego set perceived by old regular customer.

I now consider Official Lego Prices as the limit to never reach, the prices for desperate consumers, incurable lego-addict, aliens that never taste of our consumer society...

Even in Paris' Galerie Lafayette - one of the best Lego shop in Paris, even best as the official Lego Shop (if you dare find it), also known as the self-proclaimed temple of fashion - but especially sanctuary of high prices for tourists still amazed by the French capital city...

Even there, you will be able to buy Palace Cinema (10132) 7% less than on Lego Shame Online.

With this survey we now know that the sleeper has his eyes wide opened.

May be he would - endlich - realize that there is definitely something rotten in the (brick) kingdom of Denmark.

It's time to take AFOL for what they are : Adults.

[TheLegoDr]

The survey didn't say anything about ripping off different regions of fans. It did say that Australians, New Zealanders, and Western Europeans feel the lowest value for dollar spent. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Anyone at anytime could not feel like they got a good value for their money spent, even if it is a good deal compared to someone else.

For every person that complains about costs overseas, there are plenty of people in the States that complain of prices. No one likes spending a fortune on anything, especially their hobby. There are a lot of big exclusive sets that may be priced accordingly, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to get them even cheaper. It's the same thing, over and over.

The results are interesting, but not too surprising. You release it in more languages and more people respond. It is interesting that more women are involved in the community. Is it because of their children, husbands, or just simply they want to be involved? More power to everyone.