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Eurobricks Mafia: Conclusion

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Huh. Well, I should have used my lie detector earlier. Ironically I was thinking of using it right before I died midday. Hink had definitely claimed Town several times at that point, but due to Heartbreak, I wan't sure I wanted to use it on him. Didn't matter because I was doomed to die before I made up my mind. :sceptic:Ah well. Good work Scum. I sort of thought you'd win after I died, and I knew Shadows was scum the moment Hink showed up Town. I'm not sure why he wasn't lynched, but I know how convincing he can be, so I can't say I'd have thought the same had I been living still--and I certainly would have had a hard time voicing my suspicion. :blush:

Would people want to play this again, or was once enough?

Sure! I think we knew basically what we were up against to begin with this time though--or at least I think I was. I'd play the game again for sure!

Town: Love you. Always trust Shadows. :wink:

Love you too! Always. :wub:

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited by Dannylonglegs

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There's not a lot I can really say. It was over too soon for me. I enjoyed playing what little part of the game I had.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my roleplaying. It was too tempting to throw myself into my assigned role.

It was fitting that I would be vanilla when portraying myself. I figured I'd make the play for the mayor since I had so little to lose, but I admit I didn't see why that killed me so quickly.

As I said in the writeboard, I was almost positive Shadows was scum, especially after finding out the curse action was a scum role. Who else would make Hinck sing all his posts?

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As I said in the writeboard, I was almost positive Shadows was scum, especially after finding out the curse action was a scum role.

I've found as many instances of prankster being town as scum, so how did you come to the conclusion that it had to be scum? It's a harmless role, we were specifically told it couldn't be taken too far. Oh, and it wasn't my role anyway, I was just trying to make it look like it was in case I ever had to actually do a kill and was seen targeting. I avoided doing them until that last day, knowing that even after being shown as not scum, I'd still be under too much scrutiny to get away with anything. It's why we didn't actually use the curse on the last day, it made it possible to claim the role and no one could dispute it, all of the targets had looked like things I would do and no one else would be showing signs of being cursed that day.

Who else would make Hinck sing all his posts?

Honestly, I couldn't be more obvious there and still no one ever accused me of it. :laugh:

I have to admit, he gets a lot of points for taking it as far as he did. I seriously doubt he was required to sing and dance every single thing he said, it was just flavour, it could have been a couple of lines and then a normal post, I'm sure. That's ok though, he owed me a poem from Ragnarok, he promised me one after I died in the midst of his sadness about it in IRC. :laugh:

I'm still waiting for the Ballad of Steinvoir Meatshield. :grin:

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Def pretty much confirmed to the dead that it was a scum role. When I was still alive, I had thought it could be a compulsive town role because I wasn't sure how it would fit with either scum team.

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I have to admit, he gets a lot of points for taking it as far as he did. I seriously doubt he was required to sing and dance every single thing he said, it was just flavour, it could have been a couple of lines and then a normal post, I'm sure. That's ok though, he owed me a poem from Ragnarok, he promised me one after I died in the midst of his sadness about it in IRC. :laugh:

I dropped him a PM that first day and told him he could dial it back, and he didn't.

About the night kill, I'm a fan of the floating kill, where more than one scum can perform the kill, but I think that's something I would also change for this game, I would make the thug the defacto killer, and the godfather performing it if the thug died.

There are a few points about the mechanics I would tweak, and will if I decide to run this again (and if anybody else wants to simply rip it off, feel free).

-thug has to kill

-seven possible recruits instead of eight

-28 players instead of 26 (maybe)... This game just seemed so scum-heavy since Zepher didn't happen to kill a scum. If he'dl killed Shadows night two, the whole game would have gone a different direction. Scum would have been down, and he wouldn't have been in the town block.

-night kills aren't delineated at all, so the vig can lie better... though I'm not sulre what the SK would be doing

-doctor protects against recruits

The town gets a little more defense and space to breathe, while recruiting is a pinch more difficult. Being down six townies by day two was too much. A couple more players would have made this game better, but I can't guarantee it would work that way in future games.

Another point, on another topic, did anyone actual believe this game was anti-metagaming, or was it just scum who said so? I am always pro-metagaming, in regards to rules and to the actions of players. One point of this game was that people could call out other players on their behavior, and not have people complain that they were meta-gaming. They were playing the Eurobricks members, so it was all good! And players could have looked to my comments in the Heartlake conclusion thread, and got ideas about what I consider fair mechanics. It was all up to you.

Def pretty much confirmed to the dead that it was a scum role. When I was still alive, I had thought it could be a compulsive town role because I wasn't sure how it would fit with either scum team.

Given thought though, there was no motive for town to impede someone's posting. The cupids arrow in Bloodbrick was different, since it was automatic (only romance), but the curses were being created, so I don't think a good townie would want to use it.

I like those as scum roles,or in a game like Bloodbrick II, lame 'powers.' They give the day thread a lighter touch. I'm glad I don't have to type like that though :laugh:

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I dropped him a PM that first day and told him he could dial it back, and he didn't.

It did add a lot of flavour. :laugh:

About the night kill, I'm a fan of the floating kill, where more than one scum can perform the kill, but I think that's something I would also change for this game, I would make the thug the defacto killer, and the godfather performing it if the thug died.

I've always liked the floating kill but I doubt it would have been as helpful if it had been two less-likely-to-be-investigated people sharing it.

Another point, on another topic, did anyone actual believe this game was anti-metagaming, or was it just scum who said so? I am always pro-metagaming, in regards to rules and to the actions of players.

Oh, I knew it was megablocks, I just thought it was a good townie move to point out that the way people metagame on EB is almost always harmful to the town. I know I get metagamed most in town games, so it sounded like something I would say.

Given thought though, there was no motive for town to impede someone's posting.

If I was a townie and had such a role, I would use it on people I was suspicious of, sort of like a light influence vig, trying to make my suspects look bad so we would lynch them. As it was, I thought you'd made it clear enough that it couldn't be anything too drastic, so I didn't take it as a major influence, unless someone went overboard with it, of course. :laugh:

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I've always liked the floating kill but I doubt it would have been as helpful if it had been two less-likely-to-be-investigated people sharing it.

Really, the roles shouldn't be designed based on who gets them :wink: As I said somewhere, it was all designed before I inputted the list of players in at Random.org, so I couldn't have known that the godfather would be a lesser investigated player like Badboy, and the thug a more investigated one. Ironically, if you had been godfather, Pandora would have gotten a scum reading on you when she investigated.

I think the killers team did well, hitting targets that weren't so predictable (except Pandora), but there was a fair chunk of luck making that go down so smoothly.

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Honestly, I couldn't be more obvious there and still no one ever accused me of it. :laugh:

I have to admit, he gets a lot of points for taking it as far as he did. I seriously doubt he was required to sing and dance every single thing he said, it was just flavour, it could have been a couple of lines and then a normal post, I'm sure. That's ok though, he owed me a poem from Ragnarok, he promised me one after I died in the midst of his sadness about it in IRC. :laugh:

I'm still waiting for the Ballad of Steinvoir Meatshield. :grin:

In private I told someone it had to be someone who knew I hated musicals, but I was busy rhyming everything to tell a bunch of people. It really narrows your focus. I was terrified of getting a penalty because I felt I'd be the target of some votes that day. def told me in Bloodbrick II that my roleplay was boring, because I got lynched the day I had to roleplay in that one too. So, I wanted to make sure def was entertained and I did nothing to get a penalty. What a taxing, yet fun, yet aggravating experience. :wacko::wub::ugh:

I dropped him a PM that first day and told him he could dial it back, and he didn't.

You said the dancing and stage directions weren't necessary. Those were the most fun for me at first. I at least danced a little in every post as that's what the role told me.

Another point, on another topic, did anyone actual believe this game was anti-metagaming, or was it just scum who said so?

I didn't believe it. I kept encouraging it until someone accused me of being Scum because of it. :hmpf:

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def told me in Bloodbrick II that my roleplay was boring, because I got lynched the day I had to roleplay in that one too.

I have no idea what you mean. I thought you did fine the day you had to love Shadows :classic:

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What a taxing, yet fun, yet aggravating experience. :wacko::wub::ugh:

Believe it or not, that's exactly the combination of things I was hoping for, even the fun part. :laugh:

I didn't believe it. I kept encouraging it until someone accused me of being Scum because of it. :hmpf:

It's isn't scummy, it just almost always benefits the scum more than the town. While I knew that wasn't def's intent, it was an honest statement.

I thought you did fine the day you had to love Shadows :classic:

So did I, he died. :grin:

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It's isn't scummy, it just almost always benefits the scum more than the town. While I knew that wasn't def's intent, it was an honest statement.

On the final days of Heartlake, I told Hinck that Draggy and Amy were being totally scummy in thread. I've seen Draggy's "We're doing good :classic: " scum-play more than once, and Amy's "Ooops! We lynched a townie" too. It was total metagaming, and I didn't follow the lead, since Draggy with supposedly giving us night results. It's a case by case thing. There are times metagaming fails too.

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I also agree with Shadows' point about this game feeling a lot like the earlier mafia games - similar to the days of Noir and MCII for me. It might have been more lenience on metagaming, quoting, and roleplaying, or some other factor. But for better or for worse it was a really good feeling and another thing that added to the fun. :thumbup:

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def, I would love to play this again! Especially if we all got to keep our roles! :laugh::tongue:

But seriously, if there is ever a sequel, count me in. Maybe not as TrumpetKing since I'm assuming I'll die during the pictorial conclusion, but maybe when I get two more posts I'll take the "67" part out of my username, then I'll be different! :laugh:

I thought the game was overall well, but I did feel like it was a little scum-favored, or just some stupid kills on my part, but I have definitely learned a lot from this game, especially with this being my second big game, and definitely the harder one I've played, I'm content with the fact that I made it until the end. :classic:

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We won! Many thanks to JimB, Amy, Tammo, Adam, Shadows (Our interactions didnt go very well, but you turned out to be scum, and I loved your little game on day five! :wub: ), Nightshroud for being such an amazing scum team!!! :wub:

Thanks to all the players, and thanks to our dear host def for hosting such an amazing game!!

:wub:

Sorry Shadows for not believing you, but to much was on stake. If you would have been town, you could have destroyed our game.

By the end of the day I was more inclined to believe you were scum, since only you, and TinyP (Who was obviously town :tongue: ) contacted me, and the other team would have had to be stupid not to contact me.

I'll post more later, in a few hours time.

Thanks for the great game!

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def, thank you so much for letting me play, I really enjoyed playing this game a lot and it was lots of fun. I liked the fact that the focus was much more on the game itself, and less so on roleplaying (apart from those who were cursed, of course).

You've heard some of my opinion on having a miller, a godfather and a role which both tailors and frames in a game where the cop gets returned the result of "scum" or "not scum" and there are multiple conversions, all of which severely weakens the investigative role. I know that you said this was strengthened by having a watcher and a tracker, but I disagree, I don't think those roles did balance the many things the cop was up against. I suspect you will disagree with this, so I hope we will amicably disagree.

As I said, I had a lot of fun playing, and I enjoyed it while it lasted. There were so many twists and turns in this game, with unexpected consequences, and there really was a town-plosion with a catalogue of calamities. Thank you for hosting a fun game, and for keeping such a great pace. :sweet:

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You've heard some of my opinion on having a miller, a godfather and a role which both tailors and frames in a game where the cop gets returned the result of "scum" or "not scum" and there are multiple conversions, all of which severely weakens the investigative role. I know that you said this was strengthened by having a watcher and a tracker, but I disagree, I don't think those roles did balance the many things the cop was up against. I suspect you will disagree with this, so I hope we will amicably disagree.

Yeah, it's an amicable disagreement. :classic: My post on the deadboard was at 5 in the morning when I woke up to use the washroom, sorry.

And I really do disagree. I know EB doesn't use a framer much, but it's not a weird role, nor is the miller. I love the miller, always will. Pie was able to claim he'd read as scum, and still build up trust. That makes it a good role.

And the read on Shadows was pure luck. It was frustrating for you, I'm sure, but it would have been frustrating if you investigated the godfather too. And if the Tailor had hit the godfather, you would have read them as scum, so the scum could have neutralised their own godfather by accident. It happened the way it happened, but it wasn't likely to. Your investigator role was going to be correct 90% of the time. That's a fair ratio, and just allowing for a little randomness. And so I consider it balanced. They managed an advantage on town through sheer luck.

As well, Dannylonglegs was meant to be able to get a solid clear on a player with his lie detector, but didn't because of Zepher. That was an extra information role for town. So add that to town's powers. Town was stacked up front, and scum didn't have much except for their kills and recruitments. The tailor was genuinely unlikely to succeed. They had a lucky first few days, and Shadows was smart with his kills, and then were able to sit tight to the end. But if there had been two more townies, the town was likely to turn it around. A town block had formed, they'd caught more scum lying and were suspicious of the rest. It was scum 6-5 over town, but I still consider it close because town was strong at the end. And that also says balance to me.

I'm glad you were able to enjoy it regardless though :sweet:

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Believe it or not, that's exactly the combination of things I was hoping for, even the fun part. :laugh:

If there's one thing I know, it's always what you intended. That's our new Acronym: WHIWSI - Whatever happens it's what Shadows intended. :tongue:

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That's our new Acronym: WHIWSI - Whatever happens it's what Shadows intended. :tongue:

It does beat WWJD. :laugh:

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Does "Biggy Baby Poo Poo" have anything to do with "Little Bunny Foo Foo"? :look:

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Does "Biggy Baby Poo Poo" have anything to do with "Little Bunny Foo Foo"? :look:

It was just a horribly mean joking way to refer to Big Cam's potty curse. :wink:

He knows it's all fun and games, I only mean the horrible things I say when I direct them at Hinck, just like he only means the ones he says to me. It's how we roll, as the kids would say.

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Congrats to the Scum Team, I have to say I was quite surprised because all who I thought were scum earlier on in the game ended up being townies :laugh:

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Wow def, thanks for hosting this wonderful game. And I do have to thank, and congratulate, my teammates. Working together was a blast.

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Thanks def for hosting an interesting and refreshing game concept. :sweet: Not playing a character was a nice change and I enjoyed your presentation and silly mafia jokes a lot. We already discussed it a bit on the deadboard, but I think it was very difficult for the town to win with the numbers being so close already on the final days. Simply outing a scum caught in the act only helps the scum to find each other and it would be insanely difficult for the town to claim to be (part of) a scum team to one of the scum teams.

Oh, and PirateDave, posting all those clues in thread before googling it for yourself, isn't a good idea. :grin: I was surprised to be the first to answer it 15-20 minutes after your post.

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