General Magma

LEGO LotR - general discussion

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Faerost makes a good point. If lego is going to do a new or final set like Minas Tirith, they'd certainly just negotiate a new short, one-off contract like they did for BTTF, GB, or the Simpsons. There could only be a problem with that if someone like Megablocks stepped in and offered WB a longer better deal....

There is also the problem that the existing license was for more than a single set / scene. It wouldn't surprise me if the IP owner would want any continuation to be under the same terms as the previous license. Why extend a license if you are only going to get a small proportion of what you had before?

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If the Minas Tirith project did get the green light, and that is a big "if", as an Ideas set, it would have a limited run and production. I can visualize Lego limiting the number of sets in the same manner as the Mars Rover or Research Institute. They probably would not make a lot like they did with Ecto-1. As much as we would like to see the White City, you have to admit there is a rather limited fanbase and among this group, a limited number of people who could even afford to buy it. If it came online, I would have to explain to my wife that we need to run up the credit card, because waiting past day 1 risks not having it at all. I can see die hard fans buying some, and resellers getting the rest in hopes of cornering the market and making a big profit down the road. A big set like that will place demand on the factory, and I doubt Lego would take a big risk by making a whole lot of them. Funny thing about the license, it you had until the end of this year, and you released a very limited run in the summer, the sets would probably be long gone before the license expired. Disclaimer: just my opinion of course.

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I have a question for the people here: Why on Earth would Lego make a new, enormous Minas Tirith if Lotr's replacement is coming out in 2016? If Lego really is making Minas Tirith (Which they aren't), when would it come out? 2016. Why make a new, huge, Castle-themed set that would directly compete with the new Castle sets? There's no way that Minas Tirith would come out this year, as we already know all of the Lego sets up to October and we have the exclusives list.

I'm not sure why the fanbase is a little naïve about Lotr, because it wasn't intended to be a huge thing like Star Wars. It was your average-run-of-the-mill partnership, very similar to Tmnt. A few classic sets from older TV shows/movies, then movie sets when the new movie came out, then it was over. Please understand that.

Why would TLG make a Minas Tirith if a new Castle line is coming (assuming all other obstacles could be overcome)? Well, simply because a sizaeable Ideas set would not compete with the smaller Castle sets that would be available much more widely in stores. I doubt any prevous Cuusoo/Ideas set competed with any regular set. Now, the other arguments against MT passing review are strong, but this one isnt.

Mostly right, but you are missing a key point. It isn't a matter of somebody else stepping in. It is whether or not WB perceives better value in freeing up the license so they can offer it to another licensor. If they give Lego a limited license just for the one Minas Tirith set it likely locks down the license for at a minimum 2 years. So the question is is there more value with this license for WB in doing that then rolling the dice and shopping it around and keeping their options open? And that will be based on the perceived current market valuation of the IP merchandising.

Honestly I would not be surprised if the next review period ends with the Minas Tirith set held over still in review.

Would it tie up the license for two years though? Cuusoo/Ideas sets have a much shorter run, dont they?

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Hmmm... somebody is keeping WETA collectibles going. If a $700 BARAD-DÛR model can sell out, I think LEGO could make a D2C series. I just envision more demand for this than for the D2C Simpsons stuff.

The Minas Tirith set is too big to ever go through IDEAS and we know that LEGO did already explore the model on their own before IDEAS. But the model could show the demand and thus LEGO might go with their own version just like they did for all the other large models of existing licenses such as the Tumbler, Hellicarrier, Sandcrawler, etc.

When the Lord of the RIngs line started, LEGO did not have a D2C licensed line like they do now. I see this more likely then an extremely small run for an IDEAS set. LEGO has seen the level of support for such a set via IDEAS and has the Orthanc sells data to boot.

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1. About 1200 "Dream Waves"

2. About 700 "What could have been" posts

3. 20-30 Wild Goose Chases, plus the endless speculation following

4. About 350 "Lotr is over" posts. I'm not sure how many times people need to be told this.

5. A similar number of "No way, we're gonna get Minas Tirith" posts, in direct response to the "Lotr is over" ones.

haha this gave me a chuckle

...it has become virtually impossible to follow this thread...[it] has become such a geek topic that often enough I don't know what the hell people are talking about...it's all those crazy acronyms

to be fair this could be said about pretty much any thread; it's easy to get lost in any fanbase conversation if you aren't a fan.

Hmmm... somebody is keeping WETA collectibles going. If a $700 BARAD-DÛR model can sell out, I think LEGO could make a D2C series.

There's probably some cross-over, but they really aren't the same thing. There are plenty of Tolkien fans who would buy WETA collectibles but wouldn't consider buying Tolkien-themed LEGO. The aesthetics are entirely different between a brick toy and a reproduction/memorabilia piece.

Edited by bachamn

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If the LoTR line did as bad as many here have stated why would TLG want to produce another set? Especially if one was previously considered for a possible third wave. Getting 10,000 votes doesn't guarantee as many sales since voting is free. Which is part of the review process to determine if a larger base of support exists to sell such a set exists. TLG's sale figures would bare that out either way.

Instead what would make more sense for TLG would be to just make a new, larger castle under a new castle line. One that could use new molds that could be used for other sets. And TLG would not have to deal with any licensing issues while at the same time appeal to a broader base of buyers. In the absence of a Minas set I'm sure many of those idea voters would but a castle set if of similar quality as TLoR line.

Recently in a interview the CEO of TLG was asked about why the Disney frozen set as not released in time for Christmas. He replied by saying that TLG was happy to have made the set and think its great but the one set doesn't really mean much to them. While many here place a high value on getting a set like Minas tirith, a company that makes 100s of products is going to have a very different perspective. Products have to fit into ones overall short term and long term goals. And in this case it seems TLG is not interested in continuing middle earth and instead wishes to move on to future products.

Edited by Darth Punk

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There seem to be way more "fans" in this thread who DON'T want a Minas Tirith to be made. I didn't realize so many guys just want to rain on the parade and pretend they work for TLG to shoot down what little hope that remains with the Ideas set. I mean seriously, is this a fan community or a CEO board meeting? I come here because an am a fan and I would like to talk about this cool theme that I like with fellow fans...

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Why would TLG make a Minas Tirith if a new Castle line is coming (assuming all other obstacles could be overcome)? Well, simply because a sizaeable Ideas set would not compete with the smaller Castle sets that would be available much more widely in stores. I doubt any prevous Cuusoo/Ideas set competed with any regular set. Now, the other arguments against MT passing review are strong, but this one isnt.

Would it tie up the license for two years though? Cuusoo/Ideas sets have a much shorter run, dont they?

They don't start production until they get the license. The license then has to cover the full anticipated shelf life of the product. Once you make it you need to account for enough time to sell out what you made. Sometimes you get lucky and sell out instantly, but typically the minimal expected or planned for retail cycle for any product like Lego is a year. So 6 months to develop and produce a year to sell. Most licenses go year by year so it's probably typically a 2 year license minimum.

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If the Minas Tirith project did get the green light, and that is a big "if", as an Ideas set, it would have a limited run and production. I can visualize Lego limiting the number of sets in the same manner as the Mars Rover or Research Institute. They probably would not make a lot like they did with Ecto-1. As much as we would like to see the White City, you have to admit there is a rather limited fanbase and among this group, a limited number of people who could even afford to buy it. If it came online, I would have to explain to my wife that we need to run up the credit card, because waiting past day 1 risks not having it at all. I can see die hard fans buying some, and resellers getting the rest in hopes of cornering the market and making a big profit down the road. A big set like that will place demand on the factory, and I doubt Lego would take a big risk by making a whole lot of them. Funny thing about the license, it you had until the end of this year, and you released a very limited run in the summer, the sets would probably be long gone before the license expired. Disclaimer: just my opinion of course.

So true. As bizarre as this may sound, I'm already feeling nervous about this project, because even if it gets the green-light, I would probably have a window of only a few weeks to buy it. If TLG could make such a drastic production mistake on "Research Institute," or a former licensed set like 7666 "Hoth Rebel Base," I fear that they would miscalculate terribly on a project such as "Minas Tirith." That being said, your point also stands that they would probably not even want to take that risk; such a gamble could prove disastrous. Then again, as others have said, they have sales figures for Orthanc and the other sets; we don't.

All of this is mere speculation, obviously. I love LEGO, and LOTR, and any combination, and I think NujuMetru's project is just a fantastic "new hope," if you will, for this seemingly dying line. I will gladly support it, tout it, and buy I ever can, no matter what roadblocks there may appear to be between here and there.

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There seem to be way more "fans" in this thread who DON'T want a Minas Tirith to be made. I didn't realize so many guys just want to rain on the parade and pretend they work for TLG to shoot down what little hope that remains with the Ideas set. I mean seriously, is this a fan community or a CEO board meeting? I come here because an am a fan and I would like to talk about this cool theme that I like with fellow fans...

Really? Because I could swear that this is an AFOL forum? One were we discuss our Lego hobbies as adults, and largely refrain from overblown false hope, hype and fairy dust. I am not a Lego employee. I am a professional business consultant with some experience with licensed product lines and the logistics of manufacture. It's not like any of this is some great state secret. It's fairly easy to see most of how TLG does things and get a feel for their patterns if you know what you are reading or listening to. Heck there are numerous documentaries showing how they do it. All it takes is a little bit of experience to work out the whys and when's.

And honestly I am not here to give you "hope". I would like another wave as much as anyone else. But I can clearly see the realities of the situation. As toy lines go Middle Earth has always been a mediocre to disappointing license. TLG is probably the most succesful toy company with it outside of maybe the war gamers. Middle Earth has always skewed older. It sells books. It sells art products like calendars. It sells replica swords. It does ok with video games. But it has never found a good foothold in the sub 14 toy market, that they keep trying for. This is not Lego's fault. It is simply the nature of the property.

You can have grossly unrealistic expectations about what will or will not be produced for our hobby, and shake your angry little nerd fist in the air when they decide to stick with their original decision and end the line naturally at it's expected 5 year license (1 year production, 3 years release, 1 year final shelf life) against all of your fantasy's, or you can stare it in the face deal with it, and should some miracle happen where both the TLG and WB teams so fall in love with MN's Minas Tirith set that they must have it let it be a joyously happy unexpected surprise. The chances of it are so remote that we probably have better chances of winning this weeks Powerball. (It's a US multi state lottery, the prize this week is $450 million, for our Euro friends)

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Bycougars is NOT Nuju Metru. Why is he getting credit for something he didn't create?

Because Bycougars has been one of my strongest supporters/advocates here, which I've appreciated, little though I follow this topic. :tongue:

I'm glad that my Minas Tirith project reaching the review stage has given y'all stuff to keep discussing in regards to its chances, the future (if there is a future!) of the LOTR line, etc. Even if my project doesn't become a LEGO product, I'll be forever grateful and impressed that it got as far as it did.

Edited by Nuju Metru

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You sir are a legend in my book. I remember when you first presented your LOTR set ideas before LEGO even considered touching the license. I thought your idea was brilliant, designing MOCs in a LEGO set style, with all its limitations, and I loved all your clever designs and hoped LEGO might someday do the same.

I’m very happy for you, gaining 10000 supporters to your amazing MOC, and I hope it finally becomes a set. And even if it didn’t it’s still an outstanding achievement that you should be proud of. For me you’ll always be the first one to bring Middle Earth to LEGO in a professional way.

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Because Bycougars has been one of my strongest supporters/advocates here, which I've appreciated, little though I follow this topic. :tongue:

I'm glad that my Minas Tirith project reaching the review stage has given y'all stuff to keep discussing in regards to its chances, the future (if there is a future!) of the LOTR line, etc. Even if my project doesn't become a LEGO product, I'll be forever grateful and impressed that it got as far as it did.

You did indeed give us some hope. Your project is very impressive in the sense that it portrays a larger than life location in Middle Earth, yet you stayed within certain size limits to express it in Lego form and still have the most memorable features of the city covered. If your project makes it, it will be a day 1 purchase for me.

If not, I think the rights to your model revert back to you if I am not mistaken. I might suggest at least having the instructions and part list for sale as some of us would consider building it given those things. Throughout the years, I hope to become more creative, but know that I would probably not be able to design a Minas Tirith that compares to your design. In the meantime, best wishes to you during this review period!

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Bycougars is NOT Nuju Metru. Why is he getting credit for something he didn't create?

Because Bycougars has been one of my strongest supporters/advocates here, which I've appreciated, little though I follow this topic. :tongue:

I'm glad that my Minas Tirith project reaching the review stage has given y'all stuff to keep discussing in regards to its chances, the future (if there is a future!) of the LOTR line, etc. Even if my project doesn't become a LEGO product, I'll be forever grateful and impressed that it got as far as it did.

I am not sure why I was given any credit for Minas Tirith, I never claimed credit for it. I have only been using Nuju Metru's picture as my profile picture to show support for the project. All credit goes to Nuju Metru. Nuju Metru do you have a parts list or instructions for this set? If Lego does not accept the project at the review stage I would be interested in buying a list or instructions so I can build this set.

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Because Bycougars has been one of my strongest supporters/advocates here, which I've appreciated, little though I follow this topic. :tongue:

I'm glad that my Minas Tirith project reaching the review stage has given y'all stuff to keep discussing in regards to its chances, the future (if there is a future!) of the LOTR line, etc. Even if my project doesn't become a LEGO product, I'll be forever grateful and impressed that it got as far as it did.

Have you checked out this yet? https://cuusoo.com/brands/cuusoo-brick

Be interested what you thought and if you could imagine fantasy types sets that would compliment middle earth.

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7- About 0 posts from moderators telling this one member to have a little more respect to a fellow Eurobricker who happened to have built an extremely popular MOC, even if he didn’t like it that much

This is not true. But this is an adult forum and people can have opinions. The mods aren't supposed to tell people they need to like or support an idea or a model.

That said, history is a little more relaxed on getting off-topic, especially when it comes to LotR. While I fully agree much of this thread has been ridiculous since the word "go", it still has people visiting and commenting. Closing the thread just to have another open in a similar vein seems like a fool's errand.

Is the person you are referring to strongly opinionated? Yes. Is he right? No, not even a little. Can I tell him to keep his opinion to himself? Yes. Should I? No.

For some time I did try to heavily moderate this thread make people keep on topic, but ultimately the decision was made to let the fans have "their" thread. If there are any direct insults or nastiness, use the report button. Reports will always be viewed by a moderator. That does not mean anything will or should be done, but it will get a look for sure.

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ZCerberus: I don’t want to argue with a moderator, but please allow me for the last time to say that I don’t think it’s OK to let a member keep on INSULTING people and just say that he’s just “strongly opinionated.”

Saying that we have “sheep mentality” for supporting a certain MOC is a plain rude insult, not a strong opinion. Going on and on for months calling a fellow fan’s creation “ugly” and “awful” and “not worthy of any support” is just ridiculously rude, this is not how we’re supposed to criticize a MOC we don’t like here, or is it? Because if it is then I should think twice before sharing any of my creations here if rude criticism is allowed.

I’ll just believe that you might not have come across his insults since you’re not following this thread closely; because to be honest I really don’t believe you support rudeness in the name of freedom of speech, so I’ll just stop here since you’re not aware of the situation. And frankly I don’t expect you to remember everything we say here, positive or negative. Perhaps I protested very late; I should’ve done that every time he made an insult so you could pass a clear judgment.

I’ve already discussed this “situation” with another moderator, Kabel, who also didn’t follow much of the discussion, and he understood my point of view and told me what to do if this member crossed the line again, so he could judge by himself and see who’s right, so I don’t know why I deserve another lesson. Please don’t get me wrong, again, I’m not arguing with you or trying to be a pain, I’m just upset that such behavior kept on going for too long in a forum that I believed to be under heavy supervision, and I felt sorry for Nuju for being harshly criticized like that. Please tell me if I crossed any lines by doing so.

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I’ve already discussed this “situation” with another moderator, Kabel, who also didn’t follow much of the discussion, and he understood my point of view and told me what to do if this member crossed the line again, so he could judge by himself and see who’s right, so I don’t know why I deserve another lesson. Please don’t get me wrong, again, I’m not arguing with you or trying to be a pain, I’m just upset that such behavior kept on going for too long in a forum that I believed to be under heavy supervision, and I felt sorry for Nuju for being harshly criticized like that. Please tell me if I crossed any lines by doing so.

Kabel is not a moderator. He is a very capable and dedicated regulator, and while he should be respected and does a great job of sniffing out issues, the only people who can tell others how to behave is a moderator like me or Ecclesiastes.

I have in the past had reports of direct nastiness and it has been addressed in the past and that is your best option going forward if you believe someone has crossed the line.

If you feel strongly about it, use the button again and it will be looked at.

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I don’t feel “strongly” about internet stuff. Apparently I went too far sympathizing with Nuju; apologies if I crossed any line. Thanks for your fair reply.

Edited by Khaled Yousef

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This is not true. But this is an adult forum and people can have opinions. The mods aren't supposed to tell people they need to like or support an idea or a model.

That said, history is a little more relaxed on getting off-topic, especially when it comes to LotR. While I fully agree much of this thread has been ridiculous since the word "go", it still has people visiting and commenting. Closing the thread just to have another open in a similar vein seems like a fool's errand.

Is the person you are referring to strongly opinionated? Yes. Is he right? No, not even a little. Can I tell him to keep his opinion to himself? Yes. Should I? No.

For some time I did try to heavily moderate this thread make people keep on topic, but ultimately the decision was made to let the fans have "their" thread. If there are any direct insults or nastiness, use the report button. Reports will always be viewed by a moderator. That does not mean anything will or should be done, but it will get a look for sure.

Can I just say that I have enjoyed this approach and I think for the most part it has worked. I don't think this topic would have been any less crazy if every 4th post was a 'stay on topic people' one.

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So... no more lotr/hobbit sets? Such a shame, this theme got lots of potential. I've just started to collect lego again after like 10 years. Is it worth to buy/invest lotr/hobbit sets? And will there be more lotr/hobbit sets in the future, maybe 2016?

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Can I just say that I have enjoyed this approach and I think for the most part it has worked. I don't think this topic would have been any less crazy if every 4th post was a 'stay on topic people' one.

I agree. There have always passionate, strong willed and opinionated people here. We don't always agree and sometimes never will but we can usually learn something from everyone. A healthy debate is a good thing as it's never very interesting if we just all agree with each other.

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So... no more lotr/hobbit sets? Such a shame, this theme got lots of potential. I've just started to collect lego again after like 10 years. Is it worth to buy/invest lotr/hobbit sets? And will there be more lotr/hobbit sets in the future, maybe 2016?

No.

If you can get them cheap enough.

No.

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Is it worth to buy/invest lotr/hobbit sets? And will there be more lotr/hobbit sets in the future, maybe 2016?

To summarize 150+ pages, it is extremely unlikely there will be any more Middle Earth sets. There will be the exclusive Bain in the Battle of the Five Armies DVD though.

If you mean to invest in Middle Earth sets in order to have a financial return, I wouldn't know. It seems risky. I recommend the sets if you enjoy the movies.

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No.

If you can get them cheap enough.

No.

To summarize 150+ pages, it is extremely unlikely there will be any more Middle Earth sets. There will be the exclusive Bain in the Battle of the Five Armies DVD though.

If you mean to invest in Middle Earth sets in order to have a financial return, I wouldn't know. It seems risky. I recommend the sets if you enjoy the movies.

Alright, I might buy they if i find them for a discounted price :tongue:

Edited by tom20arc

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