LEGO LotR - general discussion

[MAB]

I don't think PJ is to blame. If LEGO had sets planned, then they could have shifted other themes around. They had warning. If they thought it was financially viable. It probably wasn't finanically viable. Why shift Galaxy Squad or City or Friends when they make money, when LOTR was not shifting that much product. I have every Hobbit and LOTR set, and got at least 33% off every one except Orthanc. That was 20% off. The Hobbit final sets were on sale at 50% off within six weeks or so of release in some supermarkets in the UK. It appeared that stores just did not want these sets on their shelves.

[Alcarin]

Okay, now I know you're joking. Scrap City sets? City is consistently one of Lego's best selling themes, year after year. Scrapping a city wave would be just about the stupidest thing Lego could ever do right now.

Or whatever, scrap a Ninjago set, a whatever, i just picked a theme, it doesnt matter, i picked the theme with usually most releases.

Please don't assume we all share your opinions. Some of us quite liked the Hobbit movies. If you didn't like them, that's okay. Just don't think everyone has to share that view.

It doesnt matter what you share or anyone else, metacritic and imdb ratings share my opinion and thats "majority" even the award decision comitee share this opinion with awards distribution...... Obviously LOTR movies were rated better, won more Oscars and nominations, thats not opinion, its a fact, they were also far more faithful adaptations from book to movie than the Hobbit fairy tail.... What you say does not change those facts really.

I don't think PJ is to blame. If LEGO had sets planned, then they could have shifted other themes around. They had warning. If they thought it was financially viable. It probably wasn't finanically viable. Why shift Galaxy Squad or City or Friends when they make money, when LOTR was not shifting that much product. I have every Hobbit and LOTR set, and got at least 33% off every one except Orthanc. That was 20% off. The Hobbit final sets were on sale at 50% off within six weeks or so of release in some supermarkets in the UK. It appeared that stores just did not want these sets on their shelves.

Yeah it seems so... funny thing was, most of sets either from LOTR or Hobbit got heavy discounts, but i never seen Uruk hai army on shelves long enough to get it 50% off.... it says all about the theme and in my opinion missed opportunities where a book and a movie of giant epic battles is turned into a 5 set a wave theme in LEGO without options to army build like chima, castle and so on....

Just imagine the profit, if they created army builders of free folks, orcs, haradrims, easterlings, elves etc.... it would fly off the shelves in masses.... but I guess it was not enough or it was overlooked.

[Deathleech]

But I'm still holding onto hope for an IDEAS set. I don't understand how Doctor Who, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future and even that Big Bang Theory thing got approved, but LOTR, after several times of hitting 10.000 supporters, didn't.

There seem to be a few issues with LotR sets getting approved on Ideas. First off, not a single LotR set hitting 10,000 supporters has been under $100. Every single set is $100+. This poses a problem right off the bat considering every approved Ideas set is in the mid-price range of $30-70. The next issue is Lego already owns (or did own) the LotR license. Every Idea set that gets approved is either an original idea or a license Lego doesn't currently own. There have been countless Star Wars sets that reach 10,000 support yet not a single one has been made through Ideas. Lastly all the licensed Ideas that have been recently approved have something big going for them. The Big Bang Theory is the number one comedy on tv. Ghostbusters and Back to the Future were celebrating anniversaries, and Ghostbusters has a new movie coming out. Doctor Who has a huge following and tv shows. LotR (and the Hobbit) havn't had any movies or other media released in over a year now.

With all this in mind, I think it's easy to see why no LotR sets pass review on Ideas. They are too big/expensive, have no media tie ins, and Lego already owned the license. On top of that most LotR sets would also require new molds to do them proper justice which is another thing Lego doesn't do for Ideas sets.

I would LOVE to see a smaller set pass review, but honestly none of the Balrog or smaller sets really look that interesting on Ideas. I would be interested in seeing how well a really good $40-80 Balrog or Osgiliath set could do. Unfortunately a lot of them on the site look like they were quickly thrown together or like a younger child made them. They just lack the polish and presentation the bigger $100+ Ideas have.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Deathleech

[MAB]

^^ Uruk-hai army was available at Tesco for £12 for a while in the UK, that was 60% off. I know as I bought 20 at that price. Still kicking myself I only bought that many.

[General Magma]

Fair enough, Deathleech, but we shall see.

^^ Uruk-hai army was available at Tesco for £12 for a while in the UK, that was 60% off. I know as I bought 20 at that price. Still kicking myself I only bought that many.

You're kicking yourself for buying 20? Try having only bought one of them... I still need lots more Uruks!

[wesker]

I would LOVE to see a smaller set pass review, but honestly none of the Balrog or smaller sets really look that interesting on Ideas. I would be interested in seeing how well a really good $40-80 Balrog or Osgiliath set could do. Unfortunately a lot of them on the site look like they were quickly thrown together or like a younger child made them. They just lack the polish and presentation the bigger $100+ Ideas have.

My issue with a lot of Osgiliath projects is the focus is solely on the Gondor Soldiers rather than the actual set. Its important to understand that there are a lot of LOTR fans who aren't interested in building an army of generic soldiers and are drawn more to the story, the characters and iconic locations. The set design must always come first. Another suggestion is to also look at other options for Gondor-themed sets besides Osgiliath. Castle's Fantasy Era was bascially unlicensed LOTR sets with orc-like trolls and Gondor-ish solders. Maybe that could be a good source of inspiration? I'm surprised there haven't been many attempts at the Citadel and White Tower atop Minas Tirith either.

Going back to my previous post, I do think there are a few smaller sets with plenty of potential. ByCougar's project is off to a promising start with the Gate of Minas Tirith and I look forward to what siege weaponry he will add to help enhance the set even more. To give a bit more advice - maybe try replacing the end walls with a hexagonal turret (see the corners of 7946 and 70404) It would make it easier to include a catapault on top and add a bit more variety to the design. Still it would be nice to see everyone give it some support.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/130964

I'm also rather fond of Edoras as it reminds me a lot of NujuMetru's former project only tidier in design and play friendly. Again maybe the small size might put some off but it seems to fall in the right price range for an Ideas set. Another one that could use the support.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/130958

For the Balrog - I highly recommend BeardedNerdSE uploads his creation to LEGO Ideas. Its definitely one of the best designs and I think actually having it build with real bricks as opposed to being a digital creation will go a long way in gaining the support. My one suggestion is that if it does go up on Ideas its probably best to take some new photos against a white background to help put a clearer focus on the model.

http://www.eurobrick...howtopic=119984

For Osgiliath - my favourite design would have to be Legoboy9247's project. Its still a bit high on the piece count and could be scaled back but it works well as a display piece and the Nazgul on Fell Beast is a nice touch. Unfortunately the project only has 113 days remaining and no where near enough supporters, but hopefully it should provide plenty of inspiration for anyone looking to design their own.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/104210

Disco86 also had some nice ideas with his project and its modular design. My only criticism is that it looks a bit fragile compared to Legoboy9247's and could use a bit more colour.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/84994

I think it would be good to see everyone throw some ideas around, come up with some creative designs and really campaign to push certain projects. Even if they don't get approved just showing there's still a strong interest in Middle Earth is better than complaining here how disapointed we are the line ended too soon.

[Deathleech]

Just imagine the profit, if they created army builders of free folks, orcs, haradrims, easterlings, elves etc.... it would fly off the shelves in masses.... but I guess it was not enough or it was overlooked.

For whatever reason Lego seemed to really shy away from army builders with their LotR and Hobbit lines, and maybe it was justified. I always see tons of Star Wars army builders warming shelves.

It seems like with their Middle Earth license, Lego wanted to focus more on the characters than army building. Especially when it came to the good guys. I mean think about it, of all the good armies they could have included, Lego only gave us a single Rohan soldier, 2 Lake-town Guards, and several Mirkwood Elves. The ladder two were antagonist at certain parts in the film. The Rohan Soldier was probably just thrown in so you didn't get two named characters when buying an army builder set (which would have hurt multi purchase appeal). Lego also probably wanted a few good guys to battle the Uruk-hai so the set was decent as a stand alone.

Lego had PLENTY of opportunities to include soldiers in their sets. We could have gotten dwarven Ironhill soldiers in the Bo5A set, Gondor Soldiers in the Black Gate set, etc. Lego made a conscious decision NOT to include them though. My gut tells me it's because the sets were already packed full of named characters. We had 13 dwarves from Thorin's company alone, plus Dain. We had 9 Fellowship members, plus several other named humans and elves like Elrond, Eomer, etc. That doesn't leave a lot of room to focus on the armies. The bad guys obviously got a lot more in the way of army building with their orcs since there are so few named bad guys who play large roles in the films.

[MAB]

My issue with a lot of Osgiliath projects is the focus is solely on the Gondor Soldiers rather than the actual set. Its important to understand that there are a lot of LOTR fans who aren't interested in building an army of generic soldiers and are drawn more to the story, the characters and iconic locations. The set design must always come first.

That is because it is the (printed parts of the) soldiers that we actually need. We can already make the locations out of existing bricks. People have been doing it for years, long before LEGO released any official sets. Of course, we can put together soldiers too but they look a little odd compared to other characters with movie realistic prints.

[Ql97]

That is because it is the (printed parts of the) soldiers that we actually need. We can already make the locations out of existing bricks. People have been doing it for years, long before LEGO released any official sets. Of course, we can put together soldiers too but they look a little odd compared to other characters with movie realistic prints.

This. Exactly. That is the biggest obstacle with anything LoTR related. The sets themselves are trivial. This is Lego. You can always make your own creations. The problem is always the minifigures. Lego minifigures are simply better than almost anything on the custom market. Even the high-quality ones often don't quite match Lego's established design ethos. We need minifigures before anything else.

The problem becomes, is that for a set to get made, it has to be an actual, decent play set. Lego has no interest in making minifigure packs for LotR. I can't predict how well a LotR minifigure series would have sold, but I think it would have been a good solution the the problem of making the expensive new prints and molds. Any playset on Ideas is going to need to be well designed to have any chance.

[Alcarin]

Lastly all the licensed Ideas that have been recently approved have something big going for them. The Big Bang Theory is the number one comedy on tv. Ghostbusters and Back to the Future were celebrating anniversaries, and Ghostbusters has a new movie coming out. Doctor Who has a huge following and tv shows. LotR (and the Hobbit) havn't had any movies or other media released in over a year now.

Yet they probably have a following higher than any of the above mentioned themes if you want to call them that way.

For whatever reason Lego seemed to really shy away from army builders with their LotR and Hobbit lines, and maybe it was justified. I always see tons of Star Wars army builders warming shelves.

It seems like with their Middle Earth license, Lego wanted to focus more on the characters than army building. Especially when it came to the good guys. I mean think about it, of all the good armies they could have included, Lego only gave us a single Rohan soldier, 2 Lake-town Guards, and several Mirkwood Elves. The ladder two were antagonist at certain parts in the film. The Rohan Soldier was probably just thrown in so you didn't get two named characters when buying an army builder set (which would have hurt multi purchase appeal). Lego also probably wanted a few good guys to battle the Uruk-hai so the set was decent as a stand alone.

Yes, it seems so, the grudge some or many of AFOLs that might hold against LEGO is what was the problem in such shyness..... Was it license restriction? (The i personally understand and accept it, nothing we can do or LEGO could, or maybe better business in arranging license?)

If the license was no obstacle in army building sets which i believe it was not considering UHA is a perfectly fine army builder in my humble opinion, then what was the hold up? Production capability? Ok fine, I guess thats also reasonable, but then again, planners of production could easilly reduce 2-3 sets across others LEGO homemade themes (unlicensed) in favor of producing a limited license theme... Unless we agree and believe that every single LEGO non licensed set at that time was selling better than LOTR which I personally do not believe and would highly doubt such statement.

Lego had PLENTY of opportunities to include soldiers in their sets. We could have gotten dwarven Ironhill soldiers in the Bo5A set, Gondor Soldiers in the Black Gate set, etc. Lego made a conscious decision NOT to include them though. My gut tells me it's because the sets were already packed full of named characters. We had 13 dwarves from Thorin's company alone, plus Dain. We had 9 Fellowship members, plus several other named humans and elves like Elrond, Eomer, etc. That doesn't leave a lot of room to focus on the armies. The bad guys obviously got a lot more in the way of army building with their orcs since there are so few named bad guys who play large roles in the films.

Indeed, I agree, however, as far as LOTR is concerned, I can understand pretty much all figure choices, except maybe for Black Gate... Black Gate will always remain a weird set for me, advertising from LEGO suggested a double purchase would make it more epic, yet the figure choice was nowhere near good enough to support such decision by someone who does not to sell 75% figs on ebay/bricklink... for a double purchase to be warranted we would need to have armored troll instead of Mouth (i know i know, he was cool fig, but not double purchase material) and instead of Aragorn a Gondor soldier with shield and spear... also preferably armored orcs (not the same torso!) that would only leave Gandalf the White, which would be bearable imo.

And yes, the huge name count of good guys left little options for LEGO, however that was only so, because of really really low set count.... especially in the second wave, and even then the good guys got "glowing" undead and not main good guy soldier, Gondor one :P

[Dr.Cogg]

I still think a Minis Tirith would have sold well as a D2C set ( base on how well the Orthanc seems to have done), and to justify new molds, throw them in Dimensions.

[wesker]

That is because it is the (printed parts of the) soldiers that we actually need. We can already make the locations out of existing bricks. People have been doing it for years, long before LEGO released any official sets. Of course, we can put together soldiers too but they look a little odd compared to other characters with movie realistic prints.

But this is exactly why many of the Gondor themed projects are doomed to fail. You're only focusing on one aspect - the soldiers. Again its important to remember not every LOTR fan is looking to collect nameless soldiers. Some fans want the actual characters from the story. Others want a display piece of their favourite scene or location. Others just want a good toy to build and play with. Yes there's an audience for army building but like Star Wars it does NOT represent the majority of the fanbase. People are drawn for different reasons and failing to recognising that is the first sign of failure.

For a Gondor themed project to succeed it needs to appeal to everybody and not just a niche audience.

[DarkLordSauron]

I've maintained that this is how Lego should have handled the theme in the first place. They could make the big, detailed sets, and use the CMF series as an excuse to go overboard on the new minifigure parts.

Absolutely. Marketing middle earth anything to kids is a stupid sales decision: it's guaranteed not to sell to kids and it's frustrating the real fans by leaving out whole factions. But that's behind us now. I think our best hope is that Lego will realize the market they should've been pushing this theme in is the AFOLs, which, while they aren't Lego's intended audience, still are consumers in its market and their interest can be taken advantage of if Lego so chooses. Maybe they will indeed decide UCS-style sets are the way to go and give us a few.

Of course it's highly doubtful. The theme was screwed after the second wave. Rivendell and the Black Gate were awesome ideas, showing Lego probably did do its market testing, but decided to just give us samples of these good ideas, rather than making the Black Gate the $100 set, Rivendell the $60, and scrapping a pirate ship, which, while cool, is clearly marketed towards kids, not LotR fans. Not saying kids can't be LotR fans; I was a big LotR fan as a kid, but the kids who are indeed LotR fans will be attracted to $60 Rivendell sets just as much as adult fans because it's Rivendell.

Basically, I'm saying Lego tried to mainstream LotR at the expense of a third wave. Obviously Lego is now fearful of releasing more middle earth, given what is and isn't approved in ideas. There's just as much of a market for middle earth as there is any other ideas project, but Lego still avoids releasing more. Sad but true.

[Alcarin]

But this is exactly why many of the Gondor themed projects are doomed to fail. You're only focusing on one aspect - the soldiers. Again its important to remember not every LOTR fan is looking to collect nameless soldiers. Some fans want the actual characters from the story. Others want a display piece of their favourite scene or location. Others just want a good toy to build and play with. Yes there's an audience for army building but like Star Wars it does NOT represent the majority of the fanbase. People are drawn for different reasons and failing to recognising that is the first sign of failure.

For a Gondor themed project to succeed it needs to appeal to everybody and not just a niche audience.

Minas Tirith clearly was such case, but then there was the price point right?

Many LOTR locations are either big or semi boring (Osgilliath) for it to be both appealing to army builders and location lovers. Fact remains its easier to recreate Minas Tirith from Bricklink, than an authentic LEGO Gondor army with proper faction distinctions like shield with white tree, helmet, Tower Guard looks etc....

[Bycougars]

Going back to my previous post, I do think there are a few smaller sets with plenty of potential. ByCougar's project is off to a promising start with the Gate of Minas Tirith and I look forward to what siege weaponry he will add to help enhance the set even more. To give a bit more advice - maybe try replacing the end walls with a hexagonal turret (see the corners of 7946 and 70404) It would make it easier to include a catapault on top and add a bit more variety to the design. Still it would be nice to see everyone give it some support.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/130964

I am currently working on a Grond, this has been a little difficult. Since the gate to the city is fairly small I am trying to keep the Grond small so that I don't have to change the size of the set. I think I have the design right I am just trying to acquire the right pieces so that I can complete it. I am also adding a catapult to one section of the wall. Hopefully this will add enough playability to the set. I am hoping to have the updates ready in the next few weeks once I have the right pieces.

[MAB]

But this is exactly why many of the Gondor themed projects are doomed to fail. You're only focusing on one aspect - the soldiers. Again its important to remember not every LOTR fan is looking to collect nameless soldiers. Some fans want the actual characters from the story. Others want a display piece of their favourite scene or location. Others just want a good toy to build and play with. Yes there's an audience for army building but like Star Wars it does NOT represent the majority of the fanbase. People are drawn for different reasons and failing to recognising that is the first sign of failure.

For a Gondor themed project to succeed it needs to appeal to everybody and not just a niche audience.

You're right, I shouldn't have just said soldiers. It's Eowyn and Witch King that I want more than them, then Faramir.

[General Magma]

We're gonna have to wait for 3rd party vendors to release the items that we need for Gondorian soldiers.

I guess something like a brickbuilt Mumak with figures of Frodo (new expression, printed feet), Sam (new expression, printed feet), Gollum (new expression), Faramir, Madril, some Haradrim and maybe another Ranger of Ithilien

could be submitted to Ideas and might have a better chance of being approved than the other proposed sets. Not a minifig scale one, but a brickbuilt Mumak that wouldn't be too large for a $60 set that may also have a few trees, a hiding spot and a cooking pot included.

No new moulds would be required, but you do get a Mumak for the people who don't want to build one themselves, new versions of Frodo, Sam and Gollum, small legs with printed hobbit feet, Rangers of Ithilien and Haradrim soldiers with cool new prints, and Faramir and Madril.

Then you would have something for army builders who want Haradrim soldiers and Faramir's rangers, generic figures we haven't had before, along with an iconic beast and three of the main characters, a couple of missing named characters, and plenty of play features.

Something for everyone, I would say!

Edited February 11, 2016 by General Magma

[wesker]

We're gonna have to wait for 3rd party vendors to release the items that we need for Gondorian soldiers.

I guess something like a brickbuilt Mumak with figures of Frodo (new expression, printed feet), Sam (new expression, printed feet), Gollum (new expression), Faramir, Madril, some Haradrim and maybe another Ranger of Ithilien

could be submitted to Ideas and might have a better chance of being approved than the other proposed sets. Not a minifig scale one, but a brickbuilt Mumak that wouldn't be too large for a $60 set that may also have a few trees, a hiding spot and a cooking pot included.

No new moulds would be required, but you do get a Mumak for the people who don't want to build one themselves, new versions of Frodo, Sam and Gollum, small legs with printed hobbit feet, Rangers of Ithilien and Haradrim soldiers with cool new prints, and Faramir and Madril.

Then you would have something for army builders who want Haradrim soldiers and Faramir's rangers, generic figures we haven't had before, along with an iconic beast and three of the main characters, a couple of missing named characters, and plenty of play features.

Something for everyone, I would say!

Sounds like a perfect idea to me. I'd love to see it happen!

[General Magma]

If you're interested in seeing custom LOTR figures, come take a look at my topic, where I started posting again a while back. Most recently, two batches of Rohirrim soldier (the most recent one pictured here);

I'm also looking for ideas and suggestions for which LOTR character(s) to make next, whether they're very obscure ones or better known ones, and any generic soldiers without a decided uniform would be fine too, it doesn't really matter.

I want to fill up as many gaps in the LOTR minifig selection as possible and maybe even create every single named character from the three LOTR films.

[atreyu2112]

General Magma... We need

Sauron

Eowyn (Pelennor)

Faramir (Ranger)

Gondor Soldier

Witch-King (Pelennor)

Gothmog

Guritz

Elendil

Isildur

Gil-Galad

Haradrim soldier

Easterling soldier

[Forresto]

So why did the theme end earlier then it should? I had been under the assumption it would become Lego's other Star wars theme where they continued to produce sets for years?

[General Magma]

Eowyn (Pelennor)

Faramir (Ranger)

Gothmog

Guritz

Haradrim soldiers

Those are likely to be among my next few custom projects!

[Ql97]

So why did the theme end earlier then it should? I had been under the assumption it would become Lego's other Star wars theme where they continued to produce sets for years?

The short version: Lego was stupid.

The long version: Lego decided to f*** us over. They made poor choices when planing the theme, and when things didn't pan out exactly the way they wanted, they just cut their losses and ran.

General Magma... We need

Sauron

Eowyn (Pelennor)

Faramir (Ranger)

Gondor Soldier

Witch-King (Pelennor)

Gothmog

Guritz

Elendil

Isildur

Gil-Galad

Haradrim soldier

Easterling soldier

Elendil and Isildur would make amazing mifigigures. I mean, look at these pictures from the video game.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lego/images/5/56/Elendilking.png/revision/latest?cb=20131228153940

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/lego/images/e/e4/Isildurprince.png/revision/latest?cb=20131228154024

[Forresto]

The short version: Lego was stupid.

The long version: Lego decided to f*** us over. They made poor choices when planing the theme, and when things didn't pan out exactly the way they wanted, they just cut their losses and ran.

Wow...wow well that just sucks. I have never known Lego to screw up and this is a big theme to do so. I feel like what brought it down in sales was the Hobbit. Not bad movies but not as good or as epic as the original Lord of the Rings. So of course those sets didn't sell as much. They should've focused on the original three.

[nymmerod]

What kind of miracle would it take for them to make a Witch-king pack for Dimensions? Or Eowyn? They have to realize that a lot of people would be interested in that sort of thing. I have been angry for a long time that we never got those two prominent characters and yet we have the freaking Mouth of Sauron who appears and dies within the same 2-minute scene.

I think maybe in their minds they gave us a witch-king in the Hobbit but that ghost version is nowhere near as awesome as the ROTK version.