LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Robert_88]

Did you REALLY believe that we will get a LotR Ideas set???

I think it was absolutely clear that they reject the project. IF they release a Minas Tirith set then they will do what they did with the Sandcrawler and Helicarrier. (Rejecting the Ideas project and releasing a regular set)

[AFOLguy1970]

Minas Tirith was not a shock, although I thought the Natural History Museum had a fair chance. It looks like the glass ceiling remains for large projects.

[Umbra-Manis]

I will punch someone if DW or TBBT is bigger than Minas Tirith would have been.

[wesker]

Shame Minas Tirith got declined. Guess this leaves Dimensions as our last chance to get something new out of this theme.

[atreyu2112]

What's most depressing is how little we are asking for to fill the gaping holes in the theme, and how very little of that would require new moulds...

Balrog: brick built w/existing parts

Treebeard: brick built w/existing parts

Minas Tirith: brick built w/existing parts

New moulds:

Sauron helm & torso armor

Witch-King helm

Eowyn helm

Fell Beast

Mumakil

I think we WILL get a Sauron in a Dimensions expansion set.

I am hopeful that with the constant nagging and the presence in Dimensions game, LotR can get 1 more small wave to give us what we really need to complete our collections.

What a disappointment & wasted opportunity.

Edited May 28, 2015 by atreyu2112

[AFOLguy1970]

What's most depressing is how little we are asking for to fill the gaping holes in the theme, and how very little of that would require new moulds...

Balrog: brick built w/existing parts

Treebeard: brick built w/existing parts

Minas Tirith: brick built w/existing parts

New moulds:

Sauron helm & torso armor

Witch-King helm

Eowyn helm

Fell Beast

Mumakil

I think we WILL get a Sauron in a Dimensions expansion set.

I am hopeful that with the constant nagging and the presence in Dimensions game, LotR can get 1 more small wave to give us what we really need to complete our collections.

What a disappointment & wasted opportunity.

My big concern is that demand for the Gimli, Legolas, and Gollum packs will be fairly low, simply because most of us already have them, and kids will be more interested in other packs like Ninjago, Super Heroes, etc. They will then mistake this lack of demand for a lack of interest in the theme and not make anything else for LOTR.

Disclaimer: Just speculation and my honest opinion

[kevkipo]

What's most depressing is how little we are asking for to fill the gaping holes in the theme, and how very little of that would require new moulds...

Balrog: brick built w/existing parts

Treebeard: brick built w/existing parts

Minas Tirith: brick built w/existing parts

New moulds:

Sauron helm & torso armor

Witch-King helm

Eowyn helm

Fell Beast

Mumakil

I think we WILL get a Sauron in a Dimensions expansion set.

I am hopeful that with the constant nagging and the presence in Dimensions game, LotR can get 1 more small wave to give us what we really need to complete our collections.

What a disappointment & wasted opportunity.

I'd be glad with Eowyn with just hair

[Blondie-Wan]

My big concern is that demand for the Gimli, Legolas, and Gollum packs will be fairly low, simply because most of us already have them, and kids will be more interested in other packs like Ninjago, Super Heroes, etc. They will then mistake this lack of demand for a lack of interest in the theme and not make anything else for LOTR.

Disclaimer: Just speculation and my honest opinion

That's possible, but it would also affect numerous other characters from other themes. Lots of the NinjaGo, Legends of Chima, The LEGO Movie, DC Comics, etc. characters are also well-represented and plentiful in their own themes.

Moreover, while many people surely will buy at least some of these packs just to get the characters and other items even if they don't want to play the game, the principal point of these packs is as game add-ons, and if LEGO Middle-Earth fans want to use these characters in LEGO Dimensions they'll still have to buy these packs, even if they already have scads of Gollums, Gimlis and Legolases from various sets.

I think LEGO is smart enough to realize all this, and hopefully they'll compare sales of these packs to sales of other packs with common, widely-available characters (and equally hopefully, sales of these The Lord of the Rings Fun Packs will be good).

[wesker]

I'd be glad with Eowyn with just hair

Same here. She doesn't need the helmet - just being able to own my favourite Middle Earth heroine as an official minifigure is enough to make me happy.

Surely Sauron and an Eowyn/Witch-King teampack isn't too much to ask for from this line? I'd imagine they'd both sell a lot faster than anything else related to Middle Earth.

Edited May 28, 2015 by wesker

[Deathleech]

My big concern is that demand for the Gimli, Legolas, and Gollum packs will be fairly low, simply because most of us already have them, and kids will be more interested in other packs like Ninjago, Super Heroes, etc. They will then mistake this lack of demand for a lack of interest in the theme and not make anything else for LOTR

That's what I fear as well. None of the LotR Dimension packs offer anything really exciting or new unless you want those characters in game. I doubt they will move much stock and Lego will take it as a sign that there isn't much interest when in reality their offerings just aren't that great. Its the same that happened with the second LotR wave and pretty much all of the Hobbit ones. I would love to see Lego have a Sauron, Witch King, or Eowyn Dimensions fun pack and see how well THOSE sell.

Shame. Rather predictable winner, but good lord, when will they finally produce an ideas set that I am willing to buy? Let's hope Big Bang is ok, that's the only one I am considering to buy so far. I guess I am really unrepresentative...

This is also how I feel. The Ghostbusters and BttF Ideas sets weren't bad and I use to love those movies, but they are pretty old now. I just bought the Ecto-1 as an impulse buy for nostalgic reasons Most of the other sets they have are fairly easily made using existing bricks such as the birds, rover, etc. Nothing I am terribly interested in anyways.

This shouldn't really come as a surprise to anybody that they didn't pick the Minas Tirith set. It would be almost triple the cost of the biggest Ideas set to date, and it's for a license Lego still already owns. Hopefully the Minas Tirith makes Lego see the demand for such a set though, and eventually make a UCS version or some decent Dimensions sets.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Deathleech

[LegoFish]

Just saw that minas tirith has been declined. I may be sounding naiive here but i am genuinley surprised. with lego seeing lothlorian on its way to 10000 as well as the big rivendell, you'd think lego would get on board with what fans want. Or maybe thats just it; not enough fans. :'( Shame caus it's one of the best works of fiction EVER

[Bugbot2008]

Quite disappointed about the result, It was a good opertunity but I understand that they didn't want to waste the spot for something they could release under a lisance/theme they already have.

I agree with the sandcrawler/helicarrier comparason, hopefully they have taken the hint and have something in the pipeline, but the obvious hurdle is the absance of the essential gondor helmet :/

The waiting game continues...

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bugbot2008

[MAB]

What do fans want? To see huge mocs that are not commercially viable? That is what the ideas submissions are showing.

[Bobbtom]

You could buy an actual wooden marble maze that costs less than what lego will charge.

[TheLegoDr]

AFOLs want one thing. Children (the target market) wants another. Who is the IDEAS market geared toward since it isn't found in most retail outlets?

Minas Tirith was not going to happen for scale and price. Now, if someone can come up with something smaller and submit that to IDEAS, maybe we can get something working. Most likely the front gate or even the courtyard up top. Now we need to add in some play value of course. But they had battle at the Black Gate, so obviously someone at LEGO thought a giant door would sell. Why not incorporate that with Gondor and get some MOCs set up so we can support them. Something smaller, maybe $50 range would probably be all the higher it should go. If it could be even smaller, I could see them moving it a lot easier. At potentially $200+ for Minas Tirith, they weren't going to be moving a lot of product.

[AFOLguy1970]

AFOLs want one thing. Children (the target market) wants another. Who is the IDEAS market geared toward since it isn't found in most retail outlets?

Actually, I think for the most part the target market is older children and AFOLS in the context of IDEAS sets. BTTF and Ghostbusters are from the 1980s. I doubt most children would choose a collectible Delorean over the latest Ninjago offerings. Birds is definitely geared to an older audience as is BBT and Dr. Who. Exo-suit appealed to the nostalgia of Classic Space collectors. Wall-E and Research Institute probably stand the better chance of appealing to a younger audience, but for the most part, the sets of the last couple of years appear to be aimed at older collectors.

Minas Tirith was not going to happen for scale and price. Now, if someone can come up with something smaller and submit that to IDEAS, maybe we can get something working. Most likely the front gate or even the courtyard up top. Now we need to add in some play value of course. But they had battle at the Black Gate, so obviously someone at LEGO thought a giant door would sell. Why not incorporate that with Gondor and get some MOCs set up so we can support them. Something smaller, maybe $50 range would probably be all the higher it should go. If it could be even smaller, I could see them moving it a lot easier. At potentially $200+ for Minas Tirith, they weren't going to be moving a lot of product.

On this point I do agree. Size and possibly licensing issues did this project in. I do not think Lego is likely to approve any large project at this point. They seem unwilling to take that risk and devote factory space to any large IDEAS project. Perhaps some smaller projects around the $50 mark could stand a better chance, but they really have to be clever in design.

[Deathleech]

What do fans want? To see huge mocs that are not commercially viable? That is what the ideas submissions are showing.

Maybe they are not commercially viable as Ideas sets, but they certainly are as D2C or UCS. Heck, Nuju estimated his Minas Tirith to be around the $250 price range. That's in line or cheaper than some of the bigger Star Wars sets like the Ewok Village and Sandcrawler. It's vastly cheaper than the Helcarrier. His Minas Tirith could have even been scaled back with the large trebuchet and Fel Beast being shrunk to get it closer to the $200 mark. Of course Star Wars is vastly more popular as a theme than LotR, but Minas Tirith is MUCH more iconic and longed for than a more minor vehicle like the Sandcrawler i would say.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Deathleech

[Blondie-Wan]

You could buy an actual wooden marble maze that costs less than what lego will charge.

You could also buy a lot more than four actual little green plastic army men for less than LEGO charged for Army Men on Patrol when it was making Toy Story sets, but in both cases you'd get something less versatile than the LEGO product.

[MAB]

Of course Star Wars is vastly more popular as a theme than LotR, but Minas Tirith is MUCH more iconic and longed for than a more minor vehicle like the Sandcrawler i would say.

I wouldn't. The sandcrawler is huge in some SW fans' eyes. It is a key vehicle in the opening part of the (chronoligcally) first SW movie.

Part of my comment about the size of the requested sets was there because there have been smaller set cuusoo / ideas suggestions for things like Eowyn vs Witch King in the past:

1599 votes https://ideas.lego.com/projects/19148

71 votes (only had a bout 40 days) https://ideas.lego.com/projects/82170

"People" (as in ideas voters) clearly do not want these smaller sets, as they are not being voted for.

Whereas the bigger sets: Minas Tirith, and others (eg Barad Dur https://ideas.lego.com/projects/82472) do get the votes.

Online sales of Orthanc have been roughly 240 sets per month recently from the European hub (excluding US and anywhere served by the US hub). If a run has 10K sets, and if 5K of them are destined for the US, then that is still about two years to sell those 5K sets. That is very different to an ideas set. Of course there might be a much faster rate at the start, we don't have available stock data for Orthanc at the start of its run.

To compare with the other D2C range, The Simpsons, the house is selling at about 440 a month, with the Kwik-E-Mark at 1500 or so per month at the start of it's run. It will be interesting to see how sales of that continue over the months. So maybe D2C sets would work for the larger ones that people seem to vote for on ideas, but ideas is not the way for them to be produced. Lego would have to decide whether it is financially viable to have a D2C LOTR line only, whether the cost of the molds would need to be offset by having additional tie-in money making product (like the CMF series for the Simpsons), whether the existing license is available in future (that is whether the license for the video game plus toy Dimensions line would also cover the building set only too, or whether there are additional costs there - none of us know what the license covers), and of course, whether they believe if the line (for LOTR building toys) has been done and finished. They may well believe they did the waves they did and that is the end. I don't know how many people bought into lego LOTR, but I do know it has been a few years and LOTR sets and especially minifigures are now hard to get. I cannot see them attracting new customers with only a single D2C set or line, if they do not reissue at least the Fellowship. I don't believe lego cares too much about past customers, it is future customers they want to please. A Minas Tirith is only really of interest to peolpe that already have the minifigs to go with it, unless they repeat a lot of them in the set meaning that they probably don't give us what we want (new characters as well as the location).

As to LOTR vs "more minor vehicles" like sandcrawler, it is interesting to note that online sales of the sandcrawler recently have been on par with Orthanc, at about 280 per month. Apart from 4 May of course, when sales went to about 1500 (so about 6 months worth of steady sales) in the promo period.

Edited May 29, 2015 by MAB

[General Magma]

Well, that's disappointing.

The only hope that remains now lies with the LEGO Dimensions packs, but even then, I doubt they'll be

making new molds for those. The marble maze looks like a fun little thing but it's nothing I'd ever buy.

Same would probably go for plenty of others who were rooting for the One Last Set...

Makes me wonder why they've rejected it in the first place. Would a smaller set succeed? Or would it undergo the same fate?

I didn't expect it to win. But the UCS Tumblr, UCS Sandcrawler, and the giant helicarrier did not win either but we received very similar sets.

Yes, but those were for running themes, so sadly we can't expect them to release a Minas Tirith set after all.

[Robert_88]

Well, that's disappointing.

The only hope that remains now lies with the LEGO Dimensions packs, but even then, I doubt they'll be

making new molds for those.

They do! The Dr Who Fun Pack has even two new molds.

[Blondie-Wan]

Online sales of Orthanc have been roughly 240 sets per month recently from the European hub (excluding US and anywhere served by the US hub). If a run has 10K sets, and if 5K of them are destined for the US, then that is still about two years to sell those 5K sets. That is very different to an ideas set. Of course there might be a much faster rate at the start, we don't have available stock data for Orthanc at the start of its run.

To compare with the other D2C range, The Simpsons, the house is selling at about 440 a month, with the Kwik-E-Mark at 1500 or so per month at the start of it's run. It will be interesting to see how sales of that continue over the months.

As to LOTR vs "more minor vehicles" like sandcrawler, it is interesting to note that online sales of the sandcrawler recently have been on par with Orthanc, at about 280 per month. Apart from 4 May of course, when sales went to about 1500 (so about 6 months worth of steady sales) in the promo period.

Most interesting, if disappointing. Where are you getting this sales data?

They do! The Dr Who Fun Pack has even two new molds.

The Doctor Who pack that we know about is a Level Pack, not a Fun Pack - an important distinction, since it's twice the price of a Fun Pack. But yes, that one does indeed have two new molds (and the Back to the Future one with Doc Brown has one), which is still cool.

[MAB]

Most interesting, if disappointing. Where are you getting this sales data?

Brickset has been charting it for a couple of months now. Stock numbers are available to them through an affiliate scheme.

The Doctor Who pack that we know about is a Level Pack, not a Fun Pack - an important distinction, since it's twice the price of a Fun Pack. But yes, that one does indeed have two new molds (and the Back to the Future one with Doc Brown has one), which is still cool.

There is also the possibility that the new molds for Dr Who will be used in regular sets. Especially the fairly generic hairpiece. I cannot see them designing, for example, a Gondor helmet that can be used generically too.

Edited May 29, 2015 by MAB

[Deathleech]

I wouldn't. The sandcrawler is huge in some SW fans' eyes. It is a key vehicle in the opening part of the (chronoligcally) first SW movie.

Maybe, but it's not one of the top vehicles that comes to mind when I think of Star Wars. Heck, it's not even in the top ten. The first vehicles I think of when it comes to SW are the Millenium Falcon, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, Star Destroyer, Death Star, etc. On the other hand I would say Minas Tirith is one of the top three major cities from LotR. Heck, it might even be the most iconic. It definetly is a toss up between Minas Tirith and Helms Deep when it comes to free people's cities.

Part of my comment about the size of the requested sets was there because there have been smaller set cuusoo / ideas suggestions for things like Eowyn vs Witch King in the past:

1599 votes https://ideas.lego.com/projects/19148

71 votes (only had a bout 40 days) https://ideas.lego.com/projects/82170

"People" (as in ideas voters) clearly do not want these smaller sets, as they are not being voted for.

Well it doesn't help those sets don't seem as polished or nice looking as some of the bigger ones.

Online sales of Orthanc have been roughly 240 sets per month recently from the European hub (excluding US and anywhere served by the US hub). If a run has 10K sets, and if 5K of them are destined for the US, then that is still about two years to sell those 5K sets. That is very different to an ideas set. Of course there might be a much faster rate at the start, we don't have available stock data for Orthanc at the start of its run.

To compare with the other D2C range, The Simpsons, the house is selling at about 440 a month, with the Kwik-E-Mark at 1500 or so per month at the start of it's run. It will be interesting to see how sales of that continue over the months. So maybe D2C sets would work for the larger ones that people seem to vote for on ideas, but ideas is not the way for them to be produced. Lego would have to decide whether it is financially viable to have a D2C LOTR line only, whether the cost of the molds would need to be offset by having additional tie-in money making product (like the CMF series for the Simpsons), whether the existing license is available in future (that is whether the license for the video game plus toy Dimensions line would also cover the building set only too, or whether there are additional costs there - none of us know what the license covers), and of course, whether they believe if the line (for LOTR building toys) has been done and finished. They may well believe they did the waves they did and that is the end. I don't know how many people bought into lego LOTR, but I do know it has been a few years and LOTR sets and especially minifigures are now hard to get. I cannot see them attracting new customers with only a single D2C set or line, if they do not reissue at least the Fellowship. I don't believe lego cares too much about past customers, it is future customers they want to please. A Minas Tirith is only really of interest to peolpe that already have the minifigs to go with it, unless they repeat a lot of them in the set meaning that they probably don't give us what we want (new characters as well as the location).

As to LOTR vs "more minor vehicles" like sandcrawler, it is interesting to note that online sales of the sandcrawler recently have been on par with Orthanc, at about 280 per month. Apart from 4 May of course, when sales went to about 1500 (so about 6 months worth of steady sales) in the promo period.

You are comparing a set that came out in 2013 (Orthanc) to one that came out over half a year later in 2014 and nearly two years later in 2015 That's not a very good comparison. Of course sales are going to dramatically decrease after the first couple months. They are going to be especially low towards the end of a sets run like which is where Orthanc is at. The fact it's only selling 40 less sets a yeay behind the Sandcrawler release when the Sandcrawler is newer and comes from a much more popular line says a lot though.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Deathleech

[BrickJagger]

Maybe, but it's not one of the top vehicles that comes to mind when I think of Star Wars. Heck, it's not even in the top ten. The first vehicles I think of when it comes to SW are the Millenium Falcon, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, Star Destroyer, Death Star, etc. On the other hand I would say Minas Tirith is one of the top three major cities from LotR. Heck, it might even be the most iconic. It definetly is a toss up between Minas Tirith and Helms Deep when it comes to free people's cities........

.........The fact it's only selling 40 less sets a month behind the Sandcrawler when the Sandcrawler is newer and comes from a much more popular line says a lot though.

You did just say that the Sandcrawler wasn't that important, and then went on to say that it "says a lot" that Lotr's most iconic set is selling a few less copies than it. The Sandcrawler being newer does help your case, but not by much, as the Sandcrawler has been out for 1.5 years while Orthanc has been out for two. I would say that it is still fair to compare the sales between the two, especially since, in your own words, the Sandcrawler is a minor vehicle in the Star Wars movies while Orthanc is a major location in Lotr.

I do agree with most of post, but I just wanted to point out an inconsistency in there.