LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Bobbtom]

The appearance of Smaug changed during the production of the movie. Likely there wasn't time for LEGO to change their work until after they had to have wave 2 complete.

That's not even true because Smaug isn't bright red. The third wave one is bright red. I don't see an excuse for not including Smaug besides lego being stingy about it.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Bobbtom

[Khaled Yousef]

Deathleech: and do you know what’s your problem sir? It’s that whenever someone doesn’t agree with you, you immediately assume he firmly believes the opposite point of view. When did I ever say I thought the third wave sold like crazy? When did I suggest that the third wave was flying off the shelves? Never, but since I don’t agree with considering the whining of some fans here to be good evidence that this wave was a complete failure, this automatically means for you that I think it was a HUGE success. You offer me tea; I tell you it’s not hot enough and you go like “so I suppose the tea is freezing then, do you see ice floating on top?”

I thought Tolkien fans are the type who takes their time reading, but you my friend seem to be very hasty reading posts half way through and making assumptions. I can go all the way back and quote what I said regarding my agreement about the fact that this line wasn’t very successful, in fact I did just that answering MAB a couple of posts back, but then you never read my posts, you just assumed since I don’t fully agree with your point of view then I must be someone in denial and I don’t deserve my posts to be read carefully before making up your mind about my opinion.

[Blazej_Holen]

Isnt this Future Lotr sets thread???

[Bobbtom]

Deathleech: and do you know what’s your problem sir? It’s that whenever someone doesn’t agree with you, you immediately assume he firmly believes the opposite point of view. When did I ever say I thought the third wave sold like crazy? When did I suggest that the third wave was flying off the shelves? Never, but since I don’t agree with considering the whining of some fans here to be good evidence that this wave was a complete failure, this automatically means for you that I think it was a HUGE success. You offer me tea; I tell you it’s not hot enough and you go like “so I suppose the tea is freezing then, do you see ice floating on top?”

I thought Tolkien fans are the type who takes their time reading, but you my friend seem to be very hasty reading posts half way through and making assumptions. I can go all the way back and quote what I said regarding my agreement about the fact that this line wasn’t very successful, in fact I did just that answering MAB a couple of posts back, but then you never read my posts, you just assumed since I don’t fully agree with your point of view then I must be someone in denial and I don’t deserve my posts to be read carefully before making up your mind about my opinion.

Deethleech is right.

We have been reading your posts. It has the same pattern of agreeing with what we say in one paragraph then condescendingly inferring that we're all fools and idiots in the next.

"Be careful also not to double count reports, as some enthusiastic reporters repeat themselves over and over it might make you think there are too many of them."

Lines like that for example.

[Deathleech]

Deathleech: and do you know what’s your problem sir? It’s that whenever someone doesn’t agree with you, you immediately assume he firmly believes the opposite point of view. When did I ever say I thought the third wave sold like crazy? When did I suggest that the third wave was flying off the shelves? Never, but since I don’t agree with considering the whining of some fans here to be good evidence that this wave was a complete failure, this automatically means for you that I think it was a HUGE success. You offer me tea; I tell you it’s not hot enough and you go like “so I suppose the tea is freezing then, do you see ice floating on top?”

I thought Tolkien fans are the type who takes their time reading, but you my friend seem to be very hasty reading posts half way through and making assumptions. I can go all the way back and quote what I said regarding my agreement about the fact that this line wasn’t very successful, in fact I did just that answering MAB a couple of posts back, but then you never read my posts, you just assumed since I don’t fully agree with your point of view then I must be someone in denial and I don’t deserve my posts to be read carefully before making up your mind about my opinion.

Actually I read every one of your posts in it's entirety so far. Based on reading those posts I got the impression you think the wave did much better than it actually did. If that's not the case, why do you keep arguing with everyone saying otherwise? Myself and several other members have all told you that it seemed to have rather poor sales based on our observations. No one has stated it's fact, or gave any numbers, they simply said it doesn't seem like it has had very good sales compared to past waves or other themes. Every time you have responded saying that without any facts we shouldn't come to this conclusion. Or that the sample size is too small, or we are angry fan boys misconstruing the data. Is that not the gist of your responses? If not then maybe you are coming off wrong rather than me and everyone else interpreting them wrong? That or you are just looking to argue.

Furthermore you have said a few times fans seem to be bitter about the last wave which seems to be clouding our judgement. Sorry, I think you are the only one with your judgement being clouded. I can go into three or four Targets around me and not see ANY Hobbit sets on the shelves. That is a fact. As such, I can safely assume the waves have not sold that well and stock was not very high to begin with. I specifically remember when the third Hobbit wave was released. Target didn't even bother displaying them on an end cap for more viewing and simply placed them at the back of their Lego aisles haphazardly. I even posted a picture awhile back where the sets were faced on their side. You keep blaming our observations on us being upset or disappointed with the third Hobbit wave when that's simply not the case.

Here is the picture I am talking about. No Lonely Mountain sets, ever, and the others put on their sides stuffed on a shelf not even big enough to properly display them. Ya, that seems like a huge hit Target is expecting tons of sales from...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Deathleech

[Khaled Yousef]

Deathleech: The biggest evidence to why you ignore parts of my posts is that you still consider yourself among those whom I said their judgment is clouded, when I specifically mentioned that I don’t mean every one and I didn’t want you or anyone else to take it personally.

Do you believe that anyone who shares your observation must be right and unbiased by default, and anyone who disagrees is in denial or living on an island? What if I think the outcome of your survey would be inaccurate? Why should that mean I think your personal observations are biased or that you don’t know what you’re talking about?

It seems I must go on and say I agree with everything you say so you’d finally accept the fact that I respect your opinion? I still do respect it by the way, even if you still think otherwise, if that’s the last thing we’ll disagree about. Maybe I’m coming off wrong like you said, or else how would you get from my words the impression that I’m calling all fans bitter, and not just a couple of them, when I myself am a fan!

Bobbtom: you haven’t apologized for the insult you made earlier even though I haven’t been but polite in my disagreement with you. In real life do you usually attack people who disagree with your opinion like that? How’s that working out for you?

I don’t agree in one paragraph and disagree in another; I agree to specific points and disagree to specific points, that’s what happens in normal conversations. Now when some guys tend to generalize and deal with responds as “with” or “against” and behave like everyone around here is in their “team” and anyone who disagrees with them has insulted the “team” and should be attacked, so they tend to use the “we” and “us” in their defense instead of “I” and “me,” saying things like: Why do you disagree with “us”? Why do you think “we’re” wrong? They turn any minor disagreement into a flame war.

I don’t agree with people who consider the third Hobbit wave to be such a failure it caused the cancellation of the last LOTR wave, I think their methods only leads to mere opinions not facts, and when I disagree with those opinions I shouldn’t be attacked. While I agree that the wave wasn’t very popular as I’ve clearly stated on many occasions. I don’t think this is condescending or delusional. That’s it. How some people find this offensive is beyond my understanding.

[Deathleech]

Deathleech: The biggest evidence to why you ignore parts of my posts is that you still consider yourself among those whom I said their judgment is clouded, when I specifically mentioned that I don’t mean every one and I didn’t want you or anyone else to take it personally.

Sorry, you said that people's observations shouldn't be taken as an indicator of how well the line is doing, then go on to mention that people have clouded views of sales due to their own disappointment with the line. It seemed as if you meant EVERYONE who is reporting poor sales or stocking were just upset cause the wave was disappointing. If you meant otherwise you could have been a little more clear?

Do you believe that anyone who shares your observation must be right and unbiased by default, and anyone who disagrees is in denial or living on an island? What if I think the outcome of your survey would be inaccurate? Why should that mean I think your personal observations are biased or that you don’t know what you’re talking about?

It seems I must go on and say I agree with everything you say so you’d finally accept the fact that I respect your opinion? I still do respect it by the way, even if you still think otherwise, if that’s the last thing we’ll disagree about. Maybe I’m coming off wrong like you said, or else how would you get from my words the impression that I’m calling all fans bitter, and not just a couple of them, when I myself am a fan!

You just haven't really supplied any sort of evidence to state otherwise. I have seen dozens of members report low stock, no stock, or slow sales of the third Hobbit wave. I haven't seen hardly anyone say otherwise. If you supplied some sort of evidence I would be more inclined to see your point of view. Unfortunately you seem to be basing it all on a "what if" notion that all the people who have seen otherwise are simply not speaking up. I don't think this is necessarily true because we had a lot of mixed reports for the first LotR wave. Now it's all negative reports for the third Hobbit wave.

I don’t agree with people who consider the third Hobbit wave to be such a failure it caused the cancellation of the last LOTR wave, I think their methods only leads to mere opinions not facts, and when I disagree with those opinions I shouldn’t be attacked. While I agree that the wave wasn’t very popular as I’ve clearly stated on many occasions. I don’t think this is condescending or delusional. That’s it. How some people find this offensive is beyond my understanding.

You were attacked because you seemed to dismiss everyone's reports. Several people said that their stores had low stock or no stock at all so the Middle Earth themes must not have performed very well. You said that coming to that conclusion based on a few reports wasn't a good way to judge a line's success because it was too isolated and small of sample size. The thing is it was several reports, of several stores, from all over the world. It seems to be a pretty good indicator to everyone else except you. You seem to want reports from several thousand forum members, brick and mortar retailers, and online retailers to be convinced the third Hobbit wave didn't do that well.

I don't think anyone said the LotR theme was cancelled due to poor wave 3 Hobbit set sales either. If anything, the decision was made before the third Hobbit sets ever hit store shelves. The low wave 3 stock was due to the wave 2 performance.

[Khaled Yousef]

You see, I tell you clearly that I respect your opinion, and I say that I also understand that the last wave wasn’t very popular, and I say that I think that some members here, including you, have done a respectable effort and made keen observations that mean something, yet you consider it fine that I’d be attacked, because you think I “seem” to generalize, and I “seem” to dismiss everyone’s reports, and I “seem” to do so and so? All I “seem” to do in fact is that I don’t completely agree with your opinion, how does that justify the offence?

I’m sorry, but that’s not fair. Since I said I respect your opinion and I don’t think everyone here is wrong, you could’ve gone like “oh well, it’s OK to disagree with someone as long as it’s done in a respectful manner” or something of that sort, if this was an amicable conversation between fans, but you just keep attacking me no matter what I say since I don’t fully agree with you. You can’t win with someone who puts words in your mouth, or neglect the actual words you say… you’re just too competitive for me.

This “sales” discussion started when people claimed that LEGO must have cancelled the last LotR wave because the sales of Hobbit line were so bad… this was an on-topic suggestion that I felt it was worth discussing.

It then strayed away from this topic to unprofessional people thinking they can make market studies out of a couple of posts on an internet forum, I pointed out it wasn’t the most accurate method, and that the reports are too few and might not be that reliable, and a couple of guys started to attack me as if I’ve offended the honor of some holy endeavor they represent, thinking they speak for everyone else here… and using heavy words like “delusional” and “condescending” on a toy forum for crying out loud!

I tried to deal with their intensity in a calm and polite manner repeating that I respected their opinions even though I disagree with them, they neglected what I said, or didn’t understand the difference between disagreement and disrespect, and just kept on throwing stones, and the conversation strayed away into something unpleasant.

I apologize to other members who might have found this thread hard to follow because of this, since I was part of it, and I’ll seize to evoke people who refuse to discuss things in a friendly manner, and refuse to take back rude insults. I have reported the insults to moderators as advised, and I’ll seize to feed this fire right now.

Until we get news or meaningful discussions about Nuju’s IDEAS set, the only official “future LotR” thing remaining, there seems to be no reason to post here anything other than never ending off-topic flame wars.

[heartofdavy]

So, chasing this back to Future Lotr sets discussion. ..are y'all hoping for a molded or brick-built felbeast if Nuju's set makes it?

[nymmerod]

So, chasing this back to Future Lotr sets discussion. ..are y'all hoping for a molded or brick-built felbeast if Nuju's set makes it?

I know a lot of folks here seem to prefer brick-built... but i would much rather have the molded fell beast from the video game. I think that is unlikely since they supposedly won't make new molds for ideas sets.

[Blakstone]

While I would prefer a molded fellbeast, I just cannot see LEGO creating a new mold for an exclusive set. The change budget is just too small.

I suspect that TLG designed a fellbeast mold. But they probably didn't complete it to be production ready.

[Balbo]

Although it's unlikely I would prefer a molded fell beast, too . The version from the game looks fantastic and perfect in my opinion.

Nonetheless I'm thinking about making my own felbeast out of the Ender Dragon from the Minecraft set - has anyone else tried that yet?

[Deathleech]

Just for the record Khaled, I never once "attacked" you. I may not agree with your opinion or see eye to eye with you, but I never said anything overtly negative about you or your character. I was just pointing out why some other members may have said what they said. It's because you seemed to ignore all the evidence put in front of you and said members seemed like they were making stuff up, or seeing what they want due to being disappointed with the third wave. The same could be said about you defending the last wave though?

I think you would have been met with a lot less criticism and not treated so harsh had you at least acknowledged all the members reports of low stock/sales for the third Hobbit wave instead of seemingly ignoring them completely. Tacking on the delusional part just added fuel to the fire. I understand the sample size wasn't huge and could be better, but it's pretty much all we have to go on unless Lego starts releasing exact sales figures for each of their themes.

[Robert_88]

Isn't it possible to discuss this somewhere else? I don't really care about these kind of problems between members.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Robert_88

[heartofdavy]

I agree with y'all. The molded fell beast just looks sleeker. Blakestone, perhaps if they already started development on some of these characters, they would consider finishing the job. A man can hope.

[Faefrost]

That's not even true because Smaug isn't bright red. The third wave one is bright red. I don't see an excuse for not including Smaug besides lego being stingy about it.

Smaug was likely put in the theme precisely where WB and New Line wanted him to be. Just as he is red in ?Lego because that is the color the WB licensing department approved for him.

Somewhere there is either an interview or some part of a documentary film where they talk about this sort of thing specifically using the LoTR and Hobbit lines. They explain how the Cave Troll design and color came to be, and show much of the design process for the Dwarf headpieces. And explain how it all gets signed off by the licensor at various steps.

[Bobbtom]

Smaug was likely put in the theme precisely where WB and New Line wanted him to be. Just as he is red in ?Lego because that is the color the WB licensing department approved for him.

Somewhere there is either an interview or some part of a documentary film where they talk about this sort of thing specifically using the LoTR and Hobbit lines. They explain how the Cave Troll design and color came to be, and show much of the design process for the Dwarf headpieces. And explain how it all gets signed off by the licensor at various steps.

If WB wanted Smaug to be red then I'm fine with that, but why the third wave? Why wait until now? It makes no sense. Smaug is in the movie for 15 minutes. He should of at least been in the second wave, which was named, "The Desolation of Smaug"

Edited March 8, 2015 by Bobbtom

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I believe Smaug was in the third wave because its concept was poor and they needed something to raise the audience.

[ZCerberus]

My head hurts from reading this thread. I don't know how many times I can ask people to play nice before something serious needs to be done.

I am not one to chamber- but I have. And I will.

Let me emphasize this is the last word on all of this. Anyone who sees this crap come back up, report it and direct it specifically to my attention and there will be action.

1. I also believe that much of the Hobbit line did not sell well, and like many of you, I believe this to be true because of the lack of movement of sets in inventory in my area and because I found them on clearance often.

2. It is also possible my issues were wholly regional.

3. It is probably not the case since many others have observed the same in other parts of the world.

4. Disagreement or suggesting alternatives are not illegal. Also suggesting an alternative way to determine the sales numbers is also no illegal.

5. When you do disagree with someone, don't call them any names. If your discussion turns into a shouting match, best approach is to ignore it and let the fire die out. Spouting gasoline into the fire is not a good idea.

6. Stop calling people names.

7. Stop calling other people's MOCs names. That may seem directed at a specific person, and honestly, it mostly is.

8. No more name calling at all.

Everyone is on a mission to use the report button the next time someone ignores this directive. Please type in the report "for ZCerberus's hammer" and I will make sure the directive is enforce.

[atreyu2112]

That is true. Smaug's actual appearance for DoS wasn't decided on until literally 2 weeks before theatrical release. This is well documented in the making-of extra disc. They even went back and changed him for the blu-ray/dvd release of AuJ. In the original trailers and theatrical release he had 4 legs.

[Brickadiergerard]

That is true. Smaug's actual appearance for DoS wasn't decided on until literally 2 weeks before theatrical release. This is well documented in the making-of extra disc. They even went back and changed him for the blu-ray/dvd release of AuJ. In the original trailers and theatrical release he had 4 legs.

Wow. No wonder the films were, in my opinion, a bit of a shambles. Tolkien drew a pretty clear picture of what he thought Smaug looked like and I kind of hoped PJ might take a bit of notice of that from the point of view of size and colouring and number of legs. I still think the lego figure is good, in and of itself, and I would like to get hold of one, it just doesn't look like the Smaug of my imagination. Each to their own though.

[azog]

I own a smaug and I love him, yeah it cost me a lot for me to get him ($130.00) but in the aftermath it was so worth it!!!

[theStormCrow]

I've been following this thread for a while, but never posted . . . have you guys seen this report from groovebricks? What do you think, legit? Something to hope for?

[BrickJagger]

^ Sure, the video was posted in February, but we already have discovered that's an old photo from 2013, making it an unused prelim. I know that this has been said about 10000 times ( ) , but there was supposed to be a third LOTR wave, but due to the Hobbit films being split into a trilogy, the wave was cut to make room for the last Hobbit wave.

Also, the "citadel" part doesn't really look like Minas Tirith, anyway.

Hope that helped.

Edited March 31, 2015 by BrickJagger

[Ql97]

I agree with y'all. The molded fell beast just looks sleeker. Blakestone, perhaps if they already started development on some of these characters, they would consider finishing the job. A man can hope.

+1 Molded Fell Beast. It would look better, and would be consistant with the rest of the line, i.e. Eagles, Wargs, Smaug.

^ Sure, the video was posted in February, but we already have discovered that's an old photo from 2013, making it an unused prelim. I know that this has been said about 10000 times ( ) , but there was supposed to be a third LOTR wave, but due to the Hobbit films being split into a trilogy, the wave was cut to make room for the last Hobbit wave.

Also, the "citadel" part doesn't really look like Minas Tirith, anyway.

Hope that helped.

Well...if you switch the tower to the other side, it could pass for the citadel in a twisted, lego-y way.