General Magma

LEGO LotR - general discussion

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Yeah Deathleech but lets face it... it wont HURT you if you save extra money regardless of LOTR wave... you can always spend it on something then...

so asking for LOTR infor to decide if save ot not to save is weird....

Save regardless and you will have ''plenty'' of cash then

That's the thing though, I am not saving anywhere. I just bought more Gundabad Orcs and Lake-town Guard polybags than I otherwise would of because I am not that hopeful of a third LotR wave. If there IS a third wave with a great Gondor Soldier/Mordor Orc army builder I will certainly buy dozens regardless of what I just purchased. The only thing it would of changed are my current purchases and I would of bought less because they weren't as appealing. It's like the Mirkwood Elf polybag, I ended up buying 20 of them when it was released because I had no idea we would be getting the Mirkwood Elf Army builder. I still plan on buying 10 of the MEA set despite buying the polys,. I just would of only bought maybe 5 polybags rather than 20 had I known what I do now. Obviously this works in Lego's favor and is probably another reason they don't tell people what's planned.

If they tell us the line is cancelled it could make lots of people bail out immediately and seriously hurt the sales of already released waves. If they tell us the line is going to keep going and tell us what's planned, it could also hurt present sales. Would people buy near as many MEA sets if they knew for sure an armored elf minifigure was coming in a Bo5A army builder set? I doubt it.

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If they tell us the line is cancelled it could make lots of people bail out immediately and seriously hurt the sales of already released waves. If they tell us the line is going to keep going and tell us what's planned, it could also hurt present sales. Would people buy near as many MEA sets if they knew for sure an armored elf minifigure was coming in a Bo5A army builder set? I doubt it.

You may be right when it comes to the Hobbit sets, seeing as they are the best source for Elves we've ever had, and its a major cash cow for LEGO. But what we don't have is any Gondor soldiers. If LEGO confirmed a third LOTR wave that will have some sort of Gondor army builder, they will retain many of their current customers, and insure that they will sell lots of those sets due to the lack of Gondorians.

Honestly, every time I watch ROTK or listen to the soundtrack (the latter is quite often), I practically salivate over the idea of Gondor sets. Having a decently sized Minas Tirith with a solid army builder to accompany it is probably my biggest hope. Even if that was all we got, I would be content.

Take notes, LEGO! Give us Gondor!

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But what we don't have is any Gondor soldiers. If LEGO confirmed a third LOTR wave that will have some sort of Gondor army builder, they will retain many of their current customers, and insure that they will sell lots of those sets due to the lack of Gondorians.

For the people interested in just the Gondor Soldiers, sure. The set would probably have a few orcs though, which could impact existing sets with orcs in a negative way. I do think when it comes to something Gondor it's not as big of a deal because we have NO Gondor Lego sets yet except Aragorn in his Gondor garb.

Having a decently sized Minas Tirith with a solid army builder to accompany it is probably my biggest hope. Even if that was all we got, I would be content.

Heck, I would be fine if they just gave us a single set that was a Gondor Soldier army builder. It could have Faramir who could double as a grunt, 2 Gondor Soldiers, and 3 orcs. If we got this we could MOC or own Minas Tirith or Osgiliath or whatever. The only thing missing would be the Witch King and Eowyn then, but I would be be ok with that as long as we got a Gondor Soldier print.

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For the people interested in just the Gondor Soldiers, sure. The set would probably have a few orcs though, which could impact existing sets with orcs in a negative way. I do think when it comes to something Gondor it's not as big of a deal because we have NO Gondor Lego sets yet except Aragorn in his Gondor garb.

Heck, I would be fine if they just gave us a single set that was a Gondor Soldier army builder. It could have Faramir who could double as a grunt, 2 Gondor Soldiers, and 3 orcs. If we got this we could MOC or own Minas Tirith or Osgiliath or whatever. The only thing missing would be the Witch King and Eowyn then, but I would be be ok with that as long as we got a Gondor Soldier print.

I don't think I'd want to have to MOC my own Minas Tirith. I'm not very much into MOCing, and LEGO tends to always produce sets better than anything I could make on my own. Also, with a proper Minas Tirith set, we'd have potential of getting Denethor, Gothmog, and Pippin in armour, and even perhaps an attack troll.

If LEGO wanted to take this four set wave formula they've been doing, I'd rather they just give us three sets: the Witch-King with Fell Beast and Eowyn and Merry in armour, a Gondor army builder (either Osgilaith of Minas Tirith wall extension), and a Minas Tirith set the size of Helm's Deep.

Sure, no Balrog or 'proper' Treebeard (the one from Orthanc does just fine), but those are easier to MOC than a large fortress, especially for collectors who are less inclined to do so. Plus, characters like Galadriel are likely to pop up in TABA sets next year, so the lack of any Lorien sets isn't that big of a deal.

Three sets: $180, $35-$40, $25-$30. Five new molds (Gondor helmets, Orc helmets, Eowyn's helm, Witch-King's helm, Gondor shield), pretty much all new prints. I truly hope LEGO will surprise us and fulfill our wishes for Gondor sets.

Edited by Fives

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Been watching a lot of LOTR lately, and been speculating on what sets they might if any bring and what we haven't seen yet

Here's my list of characters we haven't had that figure prominently in my mind as possible inclusions in sets:

WitchKing, Faramir, Eowyn, Balrog, Galadriel,Denethor, Gothmog, Gondor Soldiers, Mumakil

Scenes not portrayed with new characters

Balrog vs. Gandalf, Siege of osgiliath, pelennor fields, siege of minis tirith, Lórien, minis tirith courtyard

and I'm sure a whole lot more, but none that haven't been done before or that stuck in my mind

I do think that Lego will probably do something the fans keep clamouring for and I think something with Balrog, Nazgul and a scene involving Gondor soldiers would be the only thing I would put money on. I also think it will be hard for them to not include the most prominent members of the fellowship in at least half of these sets (ie. Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Frodo) plus a Gollum as they always do. We got Gandalf x2,Legolas, Aragorn x2 and Gimli x2, Frodo in the last wave. I'm not including Orthnac as it's more exclusive

My best guess if there was 4 sets and varying price points going up would be

1) Wild Guess: Amon Hen Aragorn vs Lurtz, maybe a Boromir for good measure since he only showed up once (but I think the cheapest set has to be something cool with two antagonists, one of them a main character) $12.99

2) Balrog vs. Gandalf Gandalf, brick built Balrog (not as big as movie) $24.99

3) Pelennor Fields - FellBeast, Witchking, Eowyn, Merry $39.99

4) Siege of Osgiliath - Faramir, Frodo, Gollum, 2 Gondor soldier, 2 Orcs, maybe Sam (easier to do than minis Tirith and has more film context than just adding a Gondor battle pack akin to Urkai Army) $69.99

If they had more sets to give I'd love to see (but wouldn't count on seeing):

Gimli and Legolas vs. Mumakil (big elephant) with riders

Treebeard with Merry/Pippin vs Orcs

I think some combination of these sets balances out the distribution of main characters while introducing new scenes from the movie

If they ever did a Minis-Tirith it could possibly be a $150-$200 exclusive set. Pretty challenging to pull it off to say the least, I'd bet on a Denethor, Pippin, Gondor Soldiers being in it with orcs plus siege or a Nazgul (if it wasn't included elsewhere)

Edited by BrickBucket

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I would change the Amon Hen on your list, to Witch King with Fell Beast.

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I would change the Amon Hen on your list, to Witch King with Fell Beast.

already covered in 3) Pelennor Fields , just updated it to include the felbeast there

for $15 dollar set they should have only 1-2 figs, each being opponents

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That's the thing though, I am not saving anywhere. I just bought more Gundabad Orcs and Lake-town Guard polybags than I otherwise would of because I am not that hopeful of a third LotR wave. If there IS a third wave with a great Gondor Soldier/Mordor Orc army builder I will certainly buy dozens regardless of what I just purchased. The only thing it would of changed are my current purchases and I would of bought less because they weren't as appealing. It's like the Mirkwood Elf polybag, I ended up buying 20 of them when it was released because I had no idea we would be getting the Mirkwood Elf Army builder. I still plan on buying 10 of the MEA set despite buying the polys,. I just would of only bought maybe 5 polybags rather than 20 had I known what I do now. Obviously this works in Lego's favor and is probably another reason they don't tell people what's planned.

If they tell us the line is cancelled it could make lots of people bail out immediately and seriously hurt the sales of already released waves. If they tell us the line is going to keep going and tell us what's planned, it could also hurt present sales. Would people buy near as many MEA sets if they knew for sure an armored elf minifigure was coming in a Bo5A army builder set? I doubt it.

So tell me why would TLG want you to save... They are happy you spend money (or others) with you buying their orcs parted out and you said you would buy alot of gondor sets anyway... so its better for them you think its the last wave lol you go all out 2 times :D

Honestly, every time I watch ROTK or listen to the soundtrack (the latter is quite often), I practically salivate over the idea of Gondor sets. Having a decently sized Minas Tirith with a solid army builder to accompany it is probably my biggest hope. Even if that was all we got, I would be content.

LEGO cannot produce a DECENTLY sized Minas Tirith without breaking it and look like a ugly piece of work....

I don't think I'd want to have to MOC my own Minas Tirith. I'm not very much into MOCing, and LEGO tends to always produce sets better than anything I could make on my own. Also, with a proper Minas Tirith set, we'd have potential of getting Denethor, Gothmog, and Pippin in armour, and even perhaps an attack troll.

Well just because you cant does not mean noone else can and I bet the best MOCers produce million times better White City than anyone at LEGO could ever do....

If LEGO wanted to take this four set wave formula they've been doing, I'd rather they just give us three sets: the Witch-King with Fell Beast and Eowyn and Merry in armour, a Gondor army builder (either Osgilaith of Minas Tirith wall extension), and a Minas Tirith set the size of Helm's Deep.

Tell me something though... how can they make decently size Minas Tirith if you propose a Wall extension army builder? you know it would be impossible to make a decently sized White City if the wall would be as high as the deepening wall.... it would look so funny...

Sure, no Balrog or 'proper' Treebeard (the one from Orthanc does just fine), but those are easier to MOC than a large fortress, especially for collectors who are less inclined to do so. Plus, characters like Galadriel are likely to pop up in TABA sets next year, so the lack of any Lorien sets isn't that big of a deal.

Wll i will say so... if collectors would still want a Minas Tirith we would have to get off our megablocks and MOC it.... here its about how much you want it... you would MOC it if you want it enough. If you dont then you would not.... simple as that really.

My best guess if there was 4 sets and varying price points going up would be

1) Wild Guess: Amon Hen Aragorn vs Shultz, maybe a Boromir for good measure since he only showed up once (but I think the cheapest set has to be something cool with two antagonists, one of them a main character) $12.99

2) Balrog vs. Gandalf Gandalf, brick built Balrog (not as big as movie) $24.99

3) Pelennor Fields - FellBeast, Witchking, Eowyn, Merry $39.99

4) Siege of Osgiliath - Faramir, Frodo, Gollum, 2 Gondor soldier, 2 Orcs, maybe Sam (easier to do than minis Tirith and has more film context than just adding a Gondor battle pack akin to Urkai Army) $69.99

1. Whose Shultz? I thought that was Lurtz...

2. Balrog would probably have to be around 250-300 pieces so i'd expect it to be 29.99$

3. If they make a Fell Beast and put merry, Eowyn, Theoden and Snowmane with barding in it I bet the price point is likely to be 49.99$ its 3,5 figs and a horse + molded creature(if molded)

4. I would make that 79.99$ (like Dol Guldur battle) and make Faramir, Frodo, Gollum, 1 Ranger (preferably without hood but hair!) 1 Gondor Soldier (shield + sword) 2 Orcs and Gothmog so 7,5 figs.... or potentially even give us 2 Gondor Soldiers or 2 Rangers....

already covered in 3) Pelennor Fields , just updated it to include the felbeast there

for $15 dollar set they should have only 1-2 figs, each being opponents

Like Gandalf Arrives huh?

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Myabe they'll do a Minas Tirith 200+ euro exclusive like Ortanc?

And Schultz was his maiden name ;-)

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1. Whose Shultz? I thought that was Lurtz...

2. Balrog would probably have to be around 250-300 pieces so i'd expect it to be 29.99$

3. If they make a Fell Beast and put merry, Eowyn, Theoden and Snowmane with barding in it I bet the price point is likely to be 49.99$ its 3,5 figs and a horse + molded creature(if molded)

4. I would make that 79.99$ (like Dol Guldur battle) and make Faramir, Frodo, Gollum, 1 Ranger (preferably without hood but hair!) 1 Gondor Soldier (shield + sword) 2 Orcs and Gothmog so 7,5 figs.... or potentially even give us 2 Gondor Soldiers or 2 Rangers....

Like Gandalf Arrives huh?

1) oops, fixed

2) yup

3) I think they can do without Theoden as he already came in helm's deep and it would keep the price point down

4) Definitely something like that

I think in 90% of the tine the small sets have two adversaries in them, Gandalf and Frodo was an exception, and apart from Galandriel and Frodo (which would be a boring set for kids) I drew a blank at what would make a good $12.99 set apart from Aragorn fighting something/someone. Care to name a few ideas for sets that have at least one of the main characters (but no Gandalf, Gollum or Frodo which have already been in these small sets)?

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Sauron / Isildur, prolly the same 'style' like the Wizards Battle set (for a rock, and a bit bigger Sauron perhaps)

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Apart from a UHA-type Gondor army builder I most expect to see a Balrog set and Witch-King set. Both the Balrog and the Witch-King are major antagonists with a strong presence in the films.

The army-builder set could include a Gondor soldier and Faramir, and/or Gondor Pippin - basically another soldier, but with short legs (that would probably be best for those who don't like characters that are too unique in army-building sets). The unique fig would probably depend on whether the set is set in Minas Tirith or Osgiliath, though TLG does sometimes put figs in scenes where the don't belong.

The balrog set would have to include Gandalf, but who else? My favorite choice would be another chance to get Boromir, but he doesn't do much in this scene (not that this would stop kids from enjoying it). Legolas shooting down a Moria goblin would be the most movie-accurate choice, but we're practically drowning in Legolas figs by this point. A collapsing bridge should be enough for the bruck-built component, apart from the balrog itself.

The Witch-King set would include the Witch-king himself, Eowyn and Rohan Merry, with a fell beast. Theoden or Snowmane aren't really necessary, since we already have armored Theoden and his purpose in that scene was to die anyway. If the fell beast was brick-built, this is all the set would need. But if the fell beast was to be moulded, the question is, what would the brick built component be? Maybe another stretch of wall or tower with a trebuchet for the fell beast to knock down, and a Gondor soldier to be swept up in the beasts claws and dropped to his death?

Edited by Ardelon

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So tell me why would TLG want you to save... They are happy you spend money (or others) with you buying their orcs parted out and you said you would buy alot of gondor sets anyway... so its better for them you think its the last wave lol you go all out 2 times :D

They wouldn't, which was my whole point why Lego wouldn't confirm or deny another wave. Keeping people in the dark makes Lego more money then telling everyone their game plan. If people know there will be Gundabad Orcs with hair and ears in a future army builder they won't buy near as many DGA sets, or if armored elves are coming it would hurt MEA sales.

The army-builder set could include a Gondor soldier and Faramir, and/or Gondor Pippin - basically another soldier, but with short legs (that would probably be best for those who don't like characters that are too unique in army-building sets). The unique fig would probably depend on whether the set is set in Minas Tirith or Osgiliath, though TLG does sometimes put figs in scenes where the don't belong.

The unique character should definitely just be Faramir. He works in both an Osgiliath and Minas Tirith based set, he is important enough, and he could double as a common soldier since he looks plain enough. He is basically the Eomer of Gondor.

The balrog set would have to include Gandalf, but who else? My favorite choice would be another chance to get Boromir, but he doesn't do much in this scene (not that this would stop kids from enjoying it). Legolas shooting down a Moria goblin would be the most movie-accurate choice, but we're practically drowning in Legolas figs by this point. A collapsing bridge should be enough for the bruck-built component, apart from the balrog itself.

A Balrog set should have Boromir and Gandalf, as well as 2 Moria Orcs with their helm. That's 2 exclusive characters with new molds we will probably never get in another set.

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3) I think they can do without Theoden as he already came in helm's deep and it would keep the price point down

Well i somehow dont see how they can make Witch king ''showdown'' without Theoden... he is the focus of the enemy and Eowyn just happens to go and defend him there while others flee.... If we even get Witchking on a molded fel beast I doubt price point will be below 49.99$ ...

I think in 90% of the tine the small sets have two adversaries in them, Gandalf and Frodo was an exception, and apart from Galandriel and Frodo (which would be a boring set for kids) I drew a blank at what would make a good $12.99 set apart from Aragorn fighting something/someone. Care to name a few ideas for sets that have at least one of the main characters (but no Gandalf, Gollum or Frodo which have already been in these small sets)?

Well I would do Lurtz vs Boromir..... Both figs only came in 1 set so far and all their parts are already created and Lurtz could have quiver and Composite Black Bow.... and add a good looking tree for decoration and represantation of Amon hen or maybe some ruins or brick built statue head or whatever....

But i dont know how popular would it be with kids....

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Somehow, I doubt their precise demographic to be of great concern, many 5 year olds aren't suited to watch those movies anyways, so their experience comes from kits.

I think in this range, it's more targeted at the 10+ year olds, and the 30 year olds looking for excuses to buy kids toys ;-) ... like me

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Well i somehow dont see how they can make Witch king ''showdown'' without Theoden... he is the focus of the enemy and Eowyn just happens to go and defend him there while others flee.... If we even get Witchking on a molded fel beast I doubt price point will be below 49.99$ ...

I'd say the focus of the scene was the death of the Witch-King, specifically that no man can slay him, and a woman with a Hobbit doing just that by working around the prophecy. Theoden was just an excuse to get Eowyn to face the Witch-King - basically, his role in the scene was to be defeated (and killed). And since we already have him in his armored version from Helms deep, he would just take up a minifig slot that could be better filled by another named character or a basic soldier. Now if we had battle packs for the soldiers, then by all means, let's have another Theoden, but in this uncertain situation any new fig would be appreciated more.

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Well, indeed, the scene is about two unlikely persons succeeding where the greatest warriors of their time had failed. However I can see Theoden included for Snowmane with movie armour alone. The problem is that it would create a too nice set when it comes to minifigs: the Witch King is the number one villian, a massive selling point. Theoden is also a selling point since not everyone got Helm's Deep. When you add Eowyn in armour, which is probably an exclusive, and Merry in armour, another exclusive, you have at least two if not three exclusives and one hard to get figure in one single set. Unless we see the Witch King in another set as well I see little chance this will happen.

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Well, indeed, the scene is about two unlikely persons succeeding where the greatest warriors of their time had failed. However I can see Theoden included for Snowmane with movie armour alone. The problem is that it would create a too nice set when it comes to minifigs: the Witch King is the number one villian, a massive selling point. Theoden is also a selling point since not everyone got Helm's Deep. When you add Eowyn in armour, which is probably an exclusive, and Merry in armour, another exclusive, you have at least two if not three exclusives and one hard to get figure in one single set. Unless we see the Witch King in another set as well I see little chance this will happen.

I think it depends more on economics and if they can fit it into the pricepoint they have for the set. Lego is hard to predict, I didn't even see the $99 pirate ship ambush coming. for all we know Lego could just include the witchking in a minis tirith courtyard scene or nazgul/felbeast in osgilath related set.

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Well, indeed, the scene is about two unlikely persons succeeding where the greatest warriors of their time had failed. However I can see Theoden included for Snowmane with movie armour alone. The problem is that it would create a too nice set when it comes to minifigs: the Witch King is the number one villian, a massive selling point. Theoden is also a selling point since not everyone got Helm's Deep. When you add Eowyn in armour, which is probably an exclusive, and Merry in armour, another exclusive, you have at least two if not three exclusives and one hard to get figure in one single set. Unless we see the Witch King in another set as well I see little chance this will happen.

It could be a lot of exclusives, but I don't see a problem with that. The Dol Guldur Battle set has several exclusives in it... Radagast, the Necromancer, and Azog (technically not an exclusive, but with only 100 made for Comic-con he might as well be). Lake-town Chase also has mostly exclusives, Thorin with a new print, the Master of Lake-town, and Bard. The Lake-town guard could be considered an exclusive since the polybag may or may not be widely available in all countries and is more a promotional item than an official set.

I think Lego is more against new molds than new prints, and a Witch King Battle set wouldn't have THAT many new molds. Only two really. The Witch King definitely needs a new molded crown and there should be at least one new Rohan helm for Merry or Eowyn to wear, but Theoden could re-use the helm from Helm's Deep or existing hair, as could Merry/Eowyn (whichever doesn't get a helm). That's only 2 new molds.. not bad at all for a $50+ set. Lego also could re-use to Rohan helm for grunts if they ever gave us another battle pack with more Rohan Soldiers in it (however unlikely this may be). The Nazgul and Theoden could have the exact same torso and legs as released in other sets, as could Merry and Eowyn if Lego really wanted to get lazy.

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It could be a lot of exclusives, but I don't see a problem with that. The Dol Guldur Battle set has several exclusives in it... Radagast, the Necromancer, and Azog (technically not an exclusive, but with only 100 made for Comic-con he might as well be). Lake-town Chase also has mostly exclusives, Thorin with a new print, the Master of Lake-town, and Bard. The Lake-town guard could be considered an exclusive since the polybag may or may not be widely available in all countries and is more a promotional item than an official set.

I think Lego is more against new molds than new prints, and a Witch King Battle set wouldn't have THAT many new molds. Only two really. The Witch King definitely needs a new molded crown and there should be at least one new Rohan helm for Merry or Eowyn to wear, but Theoden could re-use the helm from Helm's Deep or existing hair, as could Merry/Eowyn (whichever doesn't get a helm). That's only 2 new molds.. not bad at all for a $50+ set. Lego also could re-use to Rohan helm for grunts if they ever gave us another battle pack with more Rohan Soldiers in it (however unlikely this may be). The Nazgul and Theoden could have the exact same torso and legs as released in other sets, as could Merry and Eowyn if Lego really wanted to get lazy.

They could get away with only one mold if they really wanted to. Merry and Eowyn both deliver their fatal blows to the WItch-King sans helmets, so it's really just the WK himself who has to have a new mold.

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I think Lego is more against new molds than new prints,

And understandably so. New molds cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Whereas new figure art, while carrying some expense, and procedural hassle, is no where near tooling costs. Yeah it's more expensive than using an existing design. But ultimately new fig art is mostly about man hours needed to create the item, and some factory logistics. Which is a far cry from the capital expenses of new tooling.

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They could get away with only one mold if they really wanted to. Merry and Eowyn both deliver their fatal blows to the WItch-King sans helmets, so it's really just the WK himself who has to have a new mold.

Ya, if Lego wanted to go bare bones. It's really just a dream for Lego to give us a second Rohan helm because it would probably never be used again. So far we only have one helm design and its not really the most common one, it's more of a prestigious helmet seen on higher ranking soldiers. Not the type seen on the vast majority of the Rhorrim which are much more rag tag.

As for the molds yes, they can be insanely expensive ranging anywhere from 10,000-250,000 for the most intricate ones. What does a new print cost Lego though? I am guessing no more than 5,000 so ya, it's understandable why they would be more inclined to do new prints rather than new molds.

I was also reading the soften plastic is cheaper to make molds of and hence why the CMFs almost always have it. It's generally used when the piece won't be reused a ton. Maybe that can also give us an idea how much a particular mold will be reused? We have seen the elf and orc hair/ears reused in at least three sets now and it was a hard plastic piece. The goblins in the goblin King Battle set was softer so it probably won't be used again? And of course all the softer plastic used for the unique elves and dwarves probably won't be used must either. I am guessing there are other factors in deciding against hard vs soft plastic besides just amount of reuse though.

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Just reading over the last several pages, it seems the most wanted LotR sets are:

Balrog with Gandalf and some Moria Orcs (archers would be very cool)

Treebeard with Merry, Pippin & Grishnakh

Witch King & Fell Beast with Eowyn in armor (should have both hair & her helmet) & Merry in armor

And some kind of Minas Tirith / Osgiliath / Gondor scene with Faramir, Gondor soldiers/archers, Denethor, Gothmog & Pelennor orcs. This could be like a Helms Deep set with an add on set/army builder like the Uruk Hai army.

I think if those were the final sets, with a Mirror Of Galadriel set if they needed a $12 price point set ... we'd all be happy.

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