Eurobricks Mafia Day Two: Moonlight Medicine

[TrumpetKing]

Really, I'm not quite sure who's town and who isn't between the two of them. I've been a bit more wary of Hinck for a while, but Scouty's claim is strange. It makes sense, but as Tammo said, I don't think that is what the seer is.

[Dragonator]

I also think that Hinck's reaction to Scouty is very... odd. If Scouty were truly scum, I would think he would be a lot more cautious than that! Particularly the fact that he spoke to both Shadows and Hinck makes it seem odd since he just needs to find one person that he is 100% sure is scum.

There really isn't any reason for the scum to start trying to team up this early unless one of them is in danger of being voted out and they need to signal that to their scum buddies. As Scouty noted, part of the point of this game is for the town to appear somewhat scummy so that the actual scum can never 100% certain of doing that. Hinck knows this, so I actually find his attempt to get Scouty lynched so quickly a lot more scummy than Scouty himself. Scared scum will jump at the first opportunity after all.

Interesting to see you following Hinck's vote so quickly, Tammo, trying to form a bandwagon before people have a chance to think about what has been said?

[Tamamono]

Interesting to see you following Hinck's vote so quickly, Tammo, trying to form a bandwagon before people have a chance to think about what has been said?

Nah, I'm voting for someone who's claiming something that's pretty much impossible in the current setup.

[Dragonator]

Nah, I'm voting for someone who's claiming something that's pretty much impossible in the current setup.

You rule it out as impossible very quickly. Townies generally aren't very certain of the set-up at all, or do you know something the rest of us don't?

[Big Cam]

Nah, I'm voting for someone who's claiming something that's pretty much impossible in the current setup.

Granted it wasn't Scouty who shared them, I think Hinck did Scouty a favor. Those PM's are something we normally never get to see. I'm not ready to cast a vote, as I feel under the weather (for real) hopefully some more has developed when I wake up, but for now I'm leaning towards,shit, I'm not sure.

[Tamamono]

You rule it out as impossible very quickly. Townies generally aren't very certain of the set-up at all, or do you know something the rest of us don't?

There've been 3 kill MOs. Unless the scum somehow have 2 killing actions (which would be incredibly overpowered), there's no chance of there being a day killer.

And no, I don't know any more than the rest of you do. However, I spend a lot of time creating setups for games like this, so I understand what's fair and what's possible and what isn't. From what we've seen so far, I simply see no room for a day killer.

[Shadows]

Vote: Scouty

Not sure why this didn't count, maybe it was just missed. Glad I'm reconsidering it now that Scouty has revealed what he was doing.

Unvote: Scouty

And on that note...

Oddly enough, that is the quote that makes the least sense, as well. Why, if Scouty is scum would he contact Hinck unless he thought Hinck was scum and they could unite? If that's happening, as it appears to be, why would there even be any reason to discuss me? If I was scum, I would have to be on one of their teams, so individual contact wouldn't be necessary.

That part really does seem out of place, when you think about it.

Hey Scouty, can you check his account of your conversation and find the post that looks edited and tell us if it was accurate or not? It really makes no sense at all.

Oh, god, you're such a twat, Hinckley. If you're not, then you're scum. Twaty scum.

I'm a fool and he's a fool (or scum). I hate to be so rude about it, but I expected so much more cooperation.

Well, we know he's not a fool , so that leaves ...

Vote: Hinckley

I'll be honest, what you sent me looked so scummy I thought you and Hinck might be trying some kind of silly sting, but when he posted the conversation with you, I naturally fell into believing that we'd actually caught a scum. I'm still not sure about you, but between the two, Hinck has a lot more indicators going against him and lynching him also deals with him being mayor when he doesn't seem trustworthy, which Pandora so kindly pointed out was a bad plan.

[Dragonator]

MOs aren't always the same each night you know. You really shouldn't look for clues in pictures, just saying.

I do agree at least that a day killer seems a little silly to add into the mix at this late stage. But I also wonder why Scouty would claim that if it could be so easily dis-proven? Scouty are you certain your role saves people from day kills? Perhaps you should ask for a clarification, it's what people generally do when they don't understand their role...

I'd rather discuss this in full and get Scouty to clarify his claim before rushing off to join a bandwagon thank you. At the moment I still find Hinck's response to Scouty's behaviour equally suspicious, he was not thinking as a strategic townie when he came running to out him, that's for sure. As someone who always wants to be Jesus, I would have expected a little more caution from him.

[Dragonator]

Oh! On another note, I'm disappointed to see the Pharaoh gone, he seemed like a fun type. If only he didn't want to run games while I was sleeping having lunch. Is Def even feeding us? I thought I heard an oink earlier, that might have been Hinck though.

*munches on a potato*

[Tamamono]

MOs aren't always the same each night you know. You really shouldn't look for clues in pictures, just saying.

I've seen MOs change slightly from night to night, like in The Forest 2, but there's nothing here that suggests a changing MO. I could maybe understand the skelly changing, but we saw two skelly kills in one night, and I simply refuse to believe that God would give the scum two kills like that. I really don't see the chandelier kill as being the scimitar skelly either, why would it change so much? Miscellaneous killing actions aren't unheard of, but they're usually vigilantes, not scum killers.

I do agree at least that a day killer seems a little silly to add into the mix at this late stage. But I also wonder why Scouty would claim that if it could be so easily dis-proven? Scouty are you certain your role saves people from day kills? Perhaps you should ask for a clarification, it's what people generally do when they don't understand their role...

Yeah, I suppose it's possible that Scouty read his role wrong or something.

I don't know, I can see a townie trying to bait the scum, and I understand that Scouty's too experienced to claim something like that, but I just can't get over the unbelievability of it.

[Hinckley]

Oh, god, you're such a twat, Hinckley. If you're not, then you're scum. Twaty scum.

That's what it is and that's what it was with the watcher. An attempt to infiltrate scum. The watcher, unlike Hinckley, is much more sensible to actually listening to me instead of going "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, LALALALA"

Here's a very summarized version of events:

Hinck and I are talking about the day and such, bla bla bla, before yesterday night and all. He asked me, several times, about the different MOs/killers. I gave him my reply, which I thought they were different people (but I can't be sure, because I have no bloody clue). Next he tells me that the town blocker contact him and told him that he (the blocker) blocked me night zero. That is certainly true (so I can at least be sure that a blocker contacted him, can't be sure if he's town or not, but he knew I was blocked, and so did I).

Back track a little here.

In the middle of the beginning of the day, the watcher contacts me, asking me why he saw me targeting shadows. I'm not so keen to tell him my role right away, that would be typical and could possibly get me killed, did I know if he was really the watcher or not then? No, not at all. Anyway, I thought I'd play on it and be totally vague about it. In all honesty, everything I said is with town perspective. The friends I refer to? Just other town folk. Not bloody scum, I don't want to be their friends. As you can see, the watcher and I came to a sort of calm understanding. We can work this out slowly and the hope is that we become friends or I catch him as scum. That's all what my intentions were.

Fast forward again, Hinck comes forward with the town blocker (not in name, no clue who he is), and with the recent discussion with the watcher and how my "vague" tactic worked then, I decided to do it with Hinck too. But, no, Hinck's a twat, he panics and immediately thinks I'm scum. I knew he'd blab this out and I told him not to be hasty, he'd ruin it all. The twat. He blabbed and ruined it all. Good job.

You know what I was doing? I was being scummy. ON PURPOSE. That's what we're supposed to do in this game. Not to look all happy dappily doo and explain "Oh, look at me, I'm so towny, TOWNY TOWNY TOWNY". No, we all have to be a little scummy to make things interesting.

I was hoping to make friends. Here on my sides were the watcher, the town blocker, and Hinck. That's a pretty good list of friends there. It was my hope to keep it quiet so that we could work freely without raising suspicion of scum. But do you know who doesn't like to play that game? Hinck doesn't. Hinck time and again has outed me in past lives and never once was I scum. I'm still not scum. I hoped this time would be different, he wouldn't out me so quickly like before. How wrong I was , the twat I am. I hoped to build a good relationship of friends here, but any hope of how I imagined it to be is totally ruined now that I have to lay it out so that the town doesn't lynch me.

I'm the seer. I see who is going to die in the day and I can prevent their death. It's a night action that is effective the next day.

I really don't know what exactly this entails. I targeted Hinck the first night, but I was blocked, and then I targeted Shadows the following night, which I was successful, and I'm sure he can attest to you that he wasn't converted, at least not through my hands. I really don't know if there's a day killer or not, I wanted to ask friends about it and help me understand it...

I really didn't want to tell him my role. But I also really wanted him not to BLAB OUR CONVERSATION OUT BECAUSE HE MAKES CONCLUSIONS TOO QUICKLY. Uhm, oh . So I compromised with myself and hoped that by telling him the truth, he'd finally get some sense in him. But he's a twat and blabs anyway. Doesn't do his "verify, verify, verify". Barely makes any effort to verify me. He just...blabs.

Everything I'm saying is the truth. Like I told the watcher, like I told Hinck, if they outed me I would tell the truth. I have not lied. I only used ambiguity to infiltrate potential scum. Guess I can't use that anymore .

I'm a fool and he's a fool (or scum). I hate to be so rude about it, but I expected so much more cooperation.

The worst part is...is that I think he's town. In all this ordeal, it's a somewhat logical conclusion to reach to. Still, I also think he's being manipulative and throwing my infiltration attempt back in my face. As a true test if I was scum or not (I considered keeping with the idea that I was scum, but I ended up choosing to tell the straight truth, that I'm the seer; I don't know, if I had kept up with the scum front would I have passed his test? Is he really just testing me?)

*dons raggedy clothes and a bucket and mops and dances around the orphanage*

It's a Scummy Post

to read

Why are you

so angry?

Why is the ploy kaput?

The Scum could still tap your foot!

Why ya freakin' out?

It's a Scummy post,

Mostly,

because the role claim

isn't Scummy!

How would I believe

he's Scum?

With a role claim

so very dumb?

Why you freakin' out?

If he thought that I

was Scum

to reveal his real role

would be dumb!

Why does no one

think of this?

I can't see how you

could miss

Why ya freakin' out?

Sounds like a reasonable story. It sounds, in fact, like a sound strategy, and was what I suspected you were doing after reviewing the PMs. Hinckley doesn't like when people try strategies he's not in on.

After he repeatedly called me out for something that I didn't do (editing a post) both in thread and PM, he asked me if I had any information for him (after calling me scummy). I am tired of this attitude. Either he is scum trying to stop the town from playing a smart game (def told us to be scummy if we hoped to survive- he gave us a tool that Hinckley is trying to destroy), or he is an extremely stubborn townie who is hurting the town by destroying any strategy he's not personally privy to. Either way, he's being far more prickly than usual (last time he was the most cuddly quarter eating hedgehog you could ask for, and now he's all bristled). Hincks smart, I think he's trying to form a town block by "doing townie things", and making the town feel like it shouldn't play the game it was told to play.

And calling out someone for editing (especially when they explain patiently numerous times it was impossible) and trying to get them in trouble for it-- that seems like scum trying to remove a townie on a technicality. And it just rubs me the wrong way.

I feel good about this vote. Vote: Hinckley.

What you on about,

you fool?

You are talking lots

of drool.

I explained to you

fully,

and apologized

truly

What you on about?

What you on about

with that?

I really thought you

edited that?

It would be significant

if you edited out a rant,

What you on about?

I did not ask for

info?

I said "You got anything?"

though.

It means "need

anything else?"

The word info I

didn't belt.

What you on about?

Why does everyone assume that the scum would be idiots? Why would they make up a role that doesn't correspond to something we've seen? Why would he pretend there was a day killer if there wasn't one? How much time would that buy him, if he were lying? Not much. I have more faith in Scouty than that, if he were scum. I think he would make up a more logical claim. Remember when we voted off a snake charmer action and it was real? That was dumb. People don't make up ridiculous claims to save themselves, they make up believable ones.

OK, if he was Town,

why would he type his real role down?

He could've said anything!

And now he wants the truth to ring,

About a day killer!

So, he wants me to believe

That the Scum is on his sleeve,

But he had to make a claim

Cause the watcher saw his name

In a Night Action thriller!

I also think that Hinck's reaction to Scouty is very... odd. If Scouty were truly scum, I would think he would be a lot more cautious than that! Particularly the fact that he spoke to both Shadows and Hinck makes it seem odd since he just needs to find one person that he is 100% sure is scum.

There really isn't any reason for the scum to start trying to team up this early unless one of them is in danger of being voted out and they need to signal that to their scum buddies. As Scouty noted, part of the point of this game is for the town to appear somewhat scummy so that the actual scum can never 100% certain of doing that. Hinck knows this, so I actually find his attempt to get Scouty lynched so quickly a lot more scummy than Scouty himself. Scared scum will jump at the first opportunity after all.

Interesting to see you following Hinck's vote so quickly, Tammo, trying to form a bandwagon before people have a chance to think about what has been said?

Don't you think you should've placed a vote then,

what are you afraid of?

Not fire-breathing, just wimpy smoking,

Give me some vote love.

If you're so sure I'm Scummy,

Why don't you place a vote?

The things you say are kind of dumb-y,

like someone who buys a house boat.

?

So we're supposed to appear Scummy,

And you admit both me and Scouty do,

Yet for some reason I am actually Scummy

and for some other reason Scouty is true?

I do agree at least that a day killer seems a little silly to add into the mix at this late stage. But I also wonder why Scouty would claim that if it could be so easily dis-proven?

It's exactly this,

I find,

probably came from

a Scummy mind!

If it can be dis-proven so,

He still chose it though!

Why's he freakin' out?

If he's such a sneaky Town

and the watcher weren't around?

Would he have to claim at all

bashing my head in the wall!

What you thinkin' bout?

*happy dances with mop and bucket. Tappity tappity, mop mop leap, tap tap.*

Yeah, I suppose it's possible that Scouty read his role wrong or something.

I don't know, I can see a townie trying to bait the scum, and I understand that Scouty's too experienced to claim something like that, but I just can't get over the unbelievability of it.

*orhpan dancing*

Don't you think he'd know by now,

being watched, blocked, called out and how!

Once we asked a hundred times

Shouldn't he know what his role entwines?

Don't you think it a bit strange?

How the story re-arranged

What's this all about?

*Tappity mop, tappity mop, leap leap tappity tap mop*

[Scouty]

Why ya freakin' out?

Because I'm upset with you and I'm getting tired of this happening to me. I thought I could change it, especially in this structure of a game, but I was dead wrong. I'd have done this through PM, out of respect, but since you didn't bother to reply to me, really, last night, that only left me to rant about you to the public. This is all your doing.

Tammo: Occam's Razor is one of Hinck's favorite things. Interesting you bringing it up.

If he thought that I

was Scum

to reveal his real role

would be dumb!

Because I didn't only think you were scum. I thought you could have been town too. You declared it yourself "I'm not scum!" Well, that doesn't exactly say "I'm town!" I shared what did to confirm my story. Making up role claims is something I've never done, really. The truth is best. This is all the truth.

You say you're not "scum", okay...I'm beginning to think that the psycho killer is indeed, you. Especially after your discussions with Darkdragon, you could have easily offed her. I don't know, that's just one conclusion I'm coming to. There's several that I could come to, as well. But psycho killer is beginning to make sense around your behaviors.

[Hinckley]

Tammo: Occam's Razor is one of Hinck's favorite things. Interesting you bringing it up.

*orphan dances*

Oh how one Earth could I forget?

Occam's Razor, my little pet?

Why, I say it every day,

love that term in every way!

It's my lovely pet!

*orphan dance, mop tap tap*

[Dragonator]

Ahem.

Could you clarify your role please Scouty? It isn't making sense to some of us.

[Dannylonglegs]

Ahem.

Could you clarify your role please Scouty? It isn't making sense to some of us.

I agree. We can't make an informed decision on this argument unless you clarify that. If the role is only useful against a day kill, I'd be inclined to believe it's a lie, due to the 3 MOs for killers and the lack of one yesterday (even though you were blocked) but I can't make up my mind until I know what it says a little better.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Hinckley]

Because I didn't only think you were scum. I thought you could have been town too. You declared it yourself "I'm not scum!" Well, that doesn't exactly say "I'm town!" I shared what did to confirm my story. Making up role claims is something I've never done, really. The truth is best. This is all the truth.

*orphan dance, moppity tappity mop mop tap*

I only said "I'm not Scum!"

because you clearly thought I was Scum

What's it matter what I declare?

I could say I'm the Prince of Bel Air

You're not making sense!

If you were running a plot

Why'd you give up when you were "caught"

If were a scheming Town

Why would your plan shut down

For a Town defense?!

Catch Scum is something

you could do,

If we did or didn't

believe you.

Now you are just

accusing

the one who accused you

who dances and sings

You're not making sense!

You say you're not "scum", okay...I'm beginning to think that the psycho killer is indeed, you. Especially after your discussions with Darkdragon, you could have easily offed her. I don't know, that's just one conclusion I'm coming to. There's several that I could come to, as well. But psycho killer is beginning to make sense around your behaviors.

Do you think that I would've revealed,

the theory that DD was the pscyh?

If I was the one who killed her?

Why would I flag that with a spike?

What behaviors are you referring to?

Besides your wild empty accusations?

Maybe you could give a little better clue?

How your theory came to formation?

As you can see, the watcher and I came to a sort of calm understanding. We can work this out slowly and the hope is that we become friends or I catch him as scum. That's all what my intentions were.

No that's not how I see it.

Should we pretend to see it fits?

The watcher understands you're Scum

and says he may be interested and succumb

to a Scum conversion if

It would mean a game change dif,

Read this one again:

You know my predicament. It's early.in day one so unless there is a big vote against me for some reason, I'll hang tight. I may be town but I'm willing to listen to any options that lead with a win for me.

How on Earth could you pretend

that you were just casual friends?

When he's saying he would flip

If the Town tables negatively tip?

And then you keep using "friends"

as if you it's one of your "trends"

I say it's lies then!

I could see this as a Town sting

if it wasn't for these things;

the watcher plays along while winking

the seer role sounds totally wrong and stinking

You have to bring the watcher into it

Only because he saw you do it

A Town acting like Scum would have a better plan

Not just twat-calling, freakin, lyin man!

Sorry it's just your defense

doesn't seem to be a Town thence

I'm keeping my vote on you,

And next the one you targeted too

You're a lying hen!

*moppity moppity mop mop mop tap tap tap moppity dance tappity*

[Scouty]

It doesn't make sense to me, either. Welcome to the club!

I've asked def for clarification. There's no guarantee he'll give it. Can't be unfair to the other side, after all.

But, honestly, what I've told you is a very close paraphrase of what I was told about my role. There's nothing more I can say about it that isn't speculation.

And for reference:

I'm the seer. I see who is going to die in the day and I can prevent their death. It's a night action that is effective the next day.

There's also mention of "weak doctor", as I've said. Nothing else besides the puzzle piece is mentioned.

Oh yeah, it also says I'm town.

[MagPiesRUs]

It may be worth noting that the chandelier kill apparently happened during the day (note that the other kills took place on night zero and night one):

Cecilie (Town) Smooshed the morning of day one.

Although the way Scouty has described his role is very strange. From what I understand, he says that he will be told who the day killer will kill each day and he will be given the choice to save them or not. However, that doesn't explain why he would've been targeting Shadows last night...

[Scouty]

You're a lying hen!

No. I'm quite certain I'm not. I'm going to say exactly what you told me when I was talking to you.

Shut up!

It may be worth noting that the chandelier kill apparently happened during the day (note that the other kills took place on night zero and night one):

Although the way Scouty has described his role is very strange. From what I understand, he says that he will be told who the day killer will kill each day and he will be given the choice to save them or not. However, that doesn't explain why he would've been targeting Shadows last night...

OH. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT. MORNING. NOT NIGHT. AND IT'S A DIFFERENT MO THAN STABBY STABBY SWORD KILLER AND CHAINSAW FREAKSHOW. KEEN EYE TPRU!

Caps lock? No, that was shift, baby.

No, I don't choose between two people. I just pick whoever I want. So I guess I protect people from being killed by chandelier guy.

[Hinckley]

Oh, the sun has come out,

it's Tomorrrow,

Maybe Cecilie's chiller

was a day killer.

It may be worth noting that the chandelier kill apparently happened during the day (note that the other kills took place on night zero and night one):

Although the way Scouty has described his role is very strange. From what I understand, he says that he will be told who the day killer will kill each day and he will be given the choice to save them or not. However, that doesn't explain why he would've been targeting Shadows last night...

[Dragonator]

That's a damn good point TPRU. Maybe that has something to do with it... although I still don't really understand. Weak doctor? What does that even mean, like protecting from one particular killer or something?

I have to laugh at the watcher that talked to you Scouty, he is assuming that he can even be converted. Would be awkward for him when he finds out he can't be. If you're town, don't try to get yourselves converted guys, seriously.

[Tamamono]

It may be worth noting that the chandelier kill apparently happened during the day (note that the other kills took place on night zero and night one):

Oh, that actually makes sense; what if the chandelier was the psycho and the flavor of his kill is morning kills? Poisoning/Arson have been past kill flavors that have each had their own doctor (Antidote and Firefighter respectively), so I suppose it makes sense for the morning killer to have one too... I still don't get why it's a weak doctor, though. Scouty, could you explain that?

[Scouty]

That's a damn good point TPRU. Maybe that has something to do with it... although I still don't really understand. Weak doctor? What does that even mean, like protecting from one particular killer or something?

The "Seer" part in and of itself is unusual and not as described on mafiawiki (which is explained as a werewolf role thingy), so it'd be my guess that' just the name def came up with it. The weak doctor, that was tacked on. I'm not a complete doctor, I don't protect people the immediate night or whatever the typical role is. I'm rather limited in how I protect people. Perhaps that's the "weak" part about it. Though if it is as it is defined on mafiawiki, then that'd be interesting. Difficult to know for sure, though...

I have to laugh at the watcher that talked to you Scouty, he is assuming that he can even be converted. Would be awkward for him when he finds out he can't be. If you're town, don't try to get yourselves converted guys, seriously.

Should we even be calling him a watcher anymore? How he's describing his actions isn't how a watcher would act...

[JimBee]

Alright, I'm back and I've had more time to go over things more thoroughly. So now I'm imagining the possible causes for this situation.

- Scouty is town, and Hinck is scum. Scouty is reaching out to different people to try to bait the scum into revealing themselves, and Hinck sees this when he is contacted. He proceeds to reveal everything that Scouty said, trying to lynch him. It helps Hinck as scum because it removes another townie as well as a confusion factor for the scum. On the other hand, Scouty turning up town may mean a shorter lifespan for Hinck.

- Both Scouty and Hinck are town. This seems to be what Scouty thinks is happening, and Hinck just jumps to conclusions too quickly. Hinck thinks he's caught a scum, obviously he is going to reveal that, even if it means the scum have a possibility of uniting. Too bad for them that in this situation Scouty is actually town...

- Scouty is scum, Hinck is town. The same as the last, except Hinck is right.

The second two are pretty obvious, but I figured it'd be helpful to lay them all out anyway. The first situation is the most interesting to me, because one scum tactic would be to go berserk on anyone that claimed to them, that they thought weren't scum. Another thing I found interesting is how Scouty seems to think Hinck is town, yet in the PMs he appeared to be goading him into admitting he was scum. Things like "you'll shoot yourself in the foot"... This to me says that Scouty thought Hinck was scum, because it sounds like "you'll hurt yourself because the scum teams won't unite". But I thought Scouty thought Hinck was town...

That's just my take on it. I'm not really sure on where to go from here. Lynching one will give us hints on the other, but maybe they're both town, like I outlined in the second scenario. I think that Hinck has been acting different this game, but he's read somewhat townie to me. Scouty has expressed his suspicions about me, which of course are wrong, but I commend him for bringing them out in the open.

And now that we know there is a day killer, Scouty's roleclaim matches up. Although it could be fabricated, I find it significantly less likely now that there's evidence of it.

[Scouty]

Things like "you'll shoot yourself in the foot"... This to me says that Scouty thought Hinck was scum, because it sounds like "you'll hurt yourself because the scum teams won't unite". But I thought Scouty thought Hinck was town...

The "you'll shoot yourself in the foot" was a comment on the assumption that Hinck and I are town, and that his carelessness will cause my death, and then I'll be revealed as town, and then he'll shoot himself in the foot because he was so wrong.

Though, you left out one other option, too. Hinck is the psycho killer.