Lego Technic 2h 2013

[Yasin]

I wonder 42003. Do you know ?

[Jim]

It seems the mounting point is movable. In one picture the boom is lowered and in the other one the boom was raised. So it seems for me, that the mounting point changes with the raising of the boom. Perhaps this also regards to the strange LA setting (pointing down) when the boom is lowered...

I don't think the mounting point is movable. It's connected completely different (one at the end, one in the middle) in both pictures. So someone made a mistake or it's not conclusive yet, but movable is not likely.

I wonder 42003. Do you know ?

It's the {Action Race car} but we haven't seen any pictures yet.

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I can't help but wonder why there's such a big difference in part count, between this and the 8421. Around 800 pieces more. That's about 45% extra parts, compared to the 8421.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Gekke Ted

[Kumbbl]

I don't think the mounting point is movable. It's connected completely different (one at the end, one in the middle) in both pictures. So someone made a mistake or it's not conclusive yet, but movable is not likely.

fully agree... a moving pivot point is very implausible...

I can't help but wonder why there's such a big difference in part count, between this and the 8421. Around 800 pieces more. That's about 45% extra parts, compared to the 8421.

yes, i'm wondering this too.... of course the huge part count of the modern sets comes mostly from myriads of pins but just one more axle more, some gears, some panels and some more other body covering could not sum up to 800 parts more...

Despite the fact that i WILL buy this new crane and the fact that the new crane will be a very good set i have the strong suspicion, the the old uncle 8421 will not be kicked out of the game by the new one... especially when moded with 2 additional cylinders and a connected retracting circuit the old one can compete very well:

- one more axle is nothing more than exactly this: one more axle

- two pistons more are nothing more than exactly this: 2 pistons more

- slewing will be done manually in both versions (and this is good so)

- boom-extension is probably done very similar and is already very clever and well designed in the 8421

- synchronized winch and boom-extension is currently not proofed for the new one (i not than this is a big advantage of the old one)

- both cranes have a very good look, the new one a more modern look with more panels but the old one has better proportions (IMHO) and the in addition the charme of a geat "lego look"...

- the old one has this more realistic pneumatic stuff - but i admit, that the LA-based solution is a good choice too - but my slightly preference is for the pneumatic but only when modded

For me the only real advantage of the new one are the motorized outtriggers - well, to be honest, this is a real advantage...

But anyway: the new one must come in my household ;-)

[Interceptor]

Well, I probably missed something. Is 42009 crane truck able to move the hook and the boom simultaneously??? This function would allow not to get out of cable when you extend the boom. If not, this is a big let down for me compared to 8421. The other is the lack of pneumatics (I don't want to create a new quarrel here). As I (and others) said before, this would have been a great (the best?) occasion to introduce new bigger and stronger pneumatic cylinders. Imagine 2 or 4 big cylinders raising and lowering the boom using compressor and pneumatic system and also a bigger turntable! That would have been a wonderful set and probably my new favourite. Regarding the aesthetics, I think 8421 is still the winner for me. 42009 is much bigger and so what?

I also understand the opinion of enthusiasts and people who missed 8421 (which set commands unreasonable price on the market now) and eager to buy this new one. 42009 has great functions like the 5 motorized functions, 4 axle steering, etc. I still think it is a nice set and of course I will buy it. And probably it is the best crane set if you consider that you are allowed to use only LAs and have no money to develop new expensive parts. I just try to stay on earth.

@Kumbbl very well spoken

Edited February 5, 2013 by Interceptor

[mobi]

I think how popular 42009 becomes, will depend greatly on how good B model is. In fact, with 2600+ parts, TLG should include a reasonably complex C model as well.

If B model is a good one (at least something similar to 8258, not impossible with parts inventory) this will be one of the top 5 best Technic sets ever.

ho missed 8421 (which set commands unreasonable price on the market now)[/Quote]

I am expecting to see Ebay flooded with MISB 8421 sets soon.

[Interceptor]

I am expecting to see Ebay flooded with MISB 8421 sets soon.

Hope you are right and I can buy another MISB one at reasonable price

[Pauger]

Well, I probably missed something. Is 42009 crane truck able to move the hook and the boom simultaneously???

Currently, no. A very easy thing to mod though, you just need another lever. Lazy work by the designer, hopefully they'll change that when they release it.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Pauger

[davidmull]

my local dealer says:

42009 = 199€

recovery truck = 109,99

Monstertruck = 39,99

mini offroader = 9,99

Mindstorms Ev3 349,99

new Technic Power Functions Tuning-Set = 36,99

I'm i the only one that notice this? New power functions tuning set! Wonder will it have an L motor :) ? Is this true this is coming out?

[Kumbbl]

Currently, no. A very easy thing to mod though, you just need another lever. Lazy work by the designer, hopefully they'll change that when they release it.

How can you know that in lever position "boom extension" the winch is not connected, i.e. synchronized?? This would be an internal of the gearbox and because the gearbox is hidden on the pictures nobody can currently judge if the 42009 has this sync-feature or not... or have i missed something?

[Pauger]

How can you know that in lever position "boom extension" the winch is not connected, i.e. synchronized?? This would be an internal of the gearbox and because the gearbox is hidden on the pictures nobody can currently judge if the 42009 has this sync-feature or not... or have i missed something?

You can see it on the stickers, the extension and winch are on different drive rings so you can use them both at the same time if there were two levers. We can't know if the speed is synced, but I assume the winch is faster (usually is), in which case it will work fine (I think the winch was faster in 8421(?)). If the winch and the hook works in opposite direction, you could simply turn the winch reel around.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Pauger

[Kumbbl]

One remark why in my humble opinion for such a mobile crane a pneumatic-based solution for boom lifting is better then using LAs:

The main weak spot of lego pneumatic is, that no smooth motion and positioning is possible (or is difficult to achieve) but just more or less a fast move to one of the final positions.

Well, therefore for a lego excavator LAs are probably a better solution than pneumatics because typical use-cases of an excavator needs exactly very smooth motions (e.g. of the boom). i consciously emphazise here "for a lego excatavor" because here realism is not the main purpose but playablity and usability (at least IMHO)...

But for a mobile crane the requirements are completey different: typically the boom of a mobile crane will be lifted as high as possible (so to the final position) before beginning of work and then the work will be done by using the hook and maybe the boom extension for a finer adjustment of the needed height. A mobile crane needs no smooth and very precise positioning of the boom-liftup. And therefore pneumatics is a better solution than LA because it is more realistic and it is faster and therefore also a compressor is completely overdosed because i do not need pressure over all the time but only once for lifiting the boom (a mobile crane will never perform perpetual lifting and lowering of its boom) and later once for lowering the boom - and this can be done very good by the manual pump.

To make a long story short: for a mobile crane IMHO lego pneumatic is not onyl more realistic but also improves usability - provided that the boom stays on top position for a senseful duration - with my 8421 this works very well with the modded 4-cylinder with connected retration circuit...

Any other thoughts?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Kumbbl

[davidmull]

Kumbbi i do agree and love pneumatics too,but like u say pneumatics in an excavator just don't work,la,s work very well in diggers where u need precise movements,

Yes you do not need precise movement in a crane like 42009 but they done pneumatics already so I'd say that's why they went down this route, my main issue with 42009 is that it's nothing special,yes the outriggers are nice "big deal". It's not enough of a reason to buy this over 8421.

The parts are not exciting for the price this thing will be, 1 motor,2 large la,s and a few small ones, that's not a lot! It has no really nice parts that make the price viable

[rener]

How can you know that in lever position "boom extension" the winch is not connected, i.e. synchronized?? This would be an internal of the gearbox and because the gearbox is hidden on the pictures nobody can currently judge if the 42009 has this sync-feature or not... or have i missed something?

Trying to explain my thoughts as comprehensive as possible: if the gearing of the "boom extension" is connected to the winch, then it would really make no difference which function is selected, so you couldn't run the winch without running the boom extension. In 8421 the motor only drove the winch, with the option of adding the boom extension. In the configuration of 42009 this selection option is not possible, but an extra lever (as mentioned somewhere above) would solve this problem.

One remark why in my humble opinion for such a mobile crane a pneumatic-based solution for boom lifting is better then using LAs:

The main weak spot of lego pneumatic is, that no smooth motion and positioning is possible (or is difficult to achieve) but just more or less a fast move to one of the final positions.

Well, therefore for a lego excavator LAs are probably a better solution than pneumatics because typical use-cases of an excavator needs exactly very smooth motions (e.g. of the boom). i consciously emphazise here "for a lego excatavor" because here realism is not the main purpose but playablity and usability (at least IMHO)...

But for a mobile crane the requirements are completey different: typically the boom of a mobile crane will be lifted as high as possible (so to the final position) before beginning of work and then the work will be done by using the hook and maybe the boom extension for a finer adjustment of the needed height. A mobile crane needs no smooth and very precise positioning of the boom-liftup. And therefore pneumatics is a better solution than LA because it is more realistic and it is faster and therefore also a compressor is completely overdosed because i do not need pressure over all the time but only once for lifiting the boom (a mobile crane will never perform perpetual lifting and lowering of its boom) and later once for lowering the boom - and this can be done very good by the manual pump.

To make a long story short: for a mobile crane IMHO lego pneumatic is not onyl more realistic but also improves usability - provided that the boom stays on top position for a senseful duration - with my 8421 this works very well with the modded 4-cylinder with connected retration circuit...

Any other thoughts?

My (humble) thoughts: one small disadvantage of 8421 was the inconsistency in functionality (motor, manual, pneumatic pump). And while pneumatics look more realistic, the functionality isn't. They work too shocking and too fast to make the boom lift look like the real thing. While the LA's always move smooth, precise and pretty fast (if I saw correctly in de video). On top of that, they add to functional consistency as I mentioned before, which I find somehow appealing.

Don't get me wrong, 8421 is a fantastic set, but IMHO there are good chances it will be topped by 42009.

[Johnny P]

to everyone that is crying about the fact that the boom uses la's instead of pneumatics .

dismantle everything that has to do with the la's and mod it by placing a compressor and valve on that gearbox exit.

mount 4 pneumatic cilinders under the boom and you have a magnificent crane.i dont have any problems with the la's.

they work great, are strong,maintains position when loaded or not loaded.

but thats just my opinion.

grtz Johny

[efferman]

But for a mobile crane the requirements are completey different: typically the boom of a mobile crane will be lifted as high as possible (so to the final position) before beginning of work and then the work will be done by using the hook and maybe the boom extension for a finer adjustment of the needed height.

sorry but this is not correct, because the most mobile cranes couldnt move their extensions under load. and some of them could move their extension only over 75 degrees. they control the working distance only with the angle of the boom.

[Meatman]

So is this 42003 set going to be like the Extreme Cruiser in that it is a mystery right up until it's release?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Meatman

[Pauger]

The parts are not exciting for the price this thing will be, 1 motor,2 large la,s and a few small ones, that's not a lot! It has no really nice parts that make the price viable

What parts are nice?

[Technic Gearhead]

[davidmull] Pneumatic Rams [/davidmull]

[Kumbbl]

sorry but this is not correct, because the most mobile cranes couldnt move their extensions under load. and some of them could move their extension only over 75 degrees. they control the working distance only with the angle of the boom.

well, i have to admit, that i'm not an expert, but i thought i saw most mobile cranes in action with full lifted boom... but maybe you are right, then i was wrong ;-) but then a crane exactly once bring its boom to the needed angle - right?

[bord4kop]

Barman reverse engineered the monster truck allready:

Nvr mind, it 's up to him to post I guess

Do look for it, cause it is excellent work!

Edited February 5, 2013 by bord4kop

[Milan]

Kumbbl, mobile cranes luff their booms to end (top) position mainly because that position is where they have max lifting power, regarding stability and bending.

However, they can operate at any angle, some can even lower their boom under superstructure level.

Pneumatics are obviously not good choice here because under load, they will compress air and the entire boom could be prone to lower.

[Ondra]

Barman reverse engineered the monster truck allready:

Nvr mind, it 's up to him to post I guess

Do look for it, cause it is excellent work!

Link?

[Technic Gearhead]

You know Dokludi has the Crane going right about now...

[DLuders]

@ Kumbbi: One of the drawbacks to the 8421 set is that its pneumatics LEAKED AIR. A raised boom would be found flat on the table the next day. Linear Actuators "stay put".

[Saberwing40k]

Has anyone considered that the mythical 42003 would be either the winning technic challenge entry, or the tuning set? I mean, I doubt that Lego would release another silly pull back racer, especially with nothing to combine it with, so it might be something else. Also, I would not discount the possibility of 42009 having non mechanized slewing , as 9397, 8110, and 8258 all have motorized slewing, and 42009 coud have that, and have some kind of mechanism that can be back driven, or have some kind of overrider clutch. It's truly a shame that they could not implement some kind of sequencer, like Nazgarot's.